Vaccuflush head cycling

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Comodave said:
Ok, even if I were ever to have a problem with my Marine Elegance head I don’t see it blowing crap all over. Sorry, Kevin, but I don’t want that. You may be the only one that doesn’t have vacuum leaks and ongoing issues. I don’t need any timers or the like.
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I really like everything that Raritan produces, and in all honesty I would choose the ME head as a replacement for the VF units i have if I ever feel like they need to be replaced.

The challenge is that I have no real problems with my VF systems. One of the installations is in my opinion almost perfect in location for accessibility, and this next week I'm going to update the accessibility of the other one to be just as easy to maintain. That and the fact that I have a really complete compliment of spares makes the decision to update the systems a difficult one.

The reality is that manufacturers are always making improvements, and I am certain that Raritans current generation products offer a significant improvement over the 40 year old technology that the VF systems represents.
 
ksanders said:
I really like everything that Raritan produces, and in all honesty I would choose the ME head as a replacement for the VF units i have if I ever feel like they need to be replaced.

The challenge is that I have no real problems with my VF systems. One of the installations is in my opinion almost perfect in location for accessibility, and this next week I'm going to update the accessibility of the other one to be just as easy to maintain. That and the fact that I have a really complete compliment of spares makes the decision to update the systems a difficult one.

The reality is that manufacturers are always making improvements, and I am certain that Raritans current generation products offer a significant improvement over the 40 year old technology that the VF systems represents.
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Vacuflush has done an excellent job of marketing over the years.
 
Like others I've found my old Vacuflushes to be reasonably reliable but have had the cycling problem you have encountered. As Peggy says it is almost always caused by debris somewhere in the system causing a vacuum leak. Mine will hold vacuum weeks otherwise. I also had a pressure switch fail which caused one of them to keep running (easy fix). Other than that the system has been reliable despite being decades old. I have to say as someone with a lifetime of analyzing data the number of posts on product isn't a good measure of reliability unless those two items had the same market penetration over a long period of time. A more reliable comparison would be failure rate versus time in service.

While I'm satisfied with my VC, the big negative of the VC system is just that it takes room. Mine has two vacuum accumulators and two pumps (one for each head). The accumulators in particular aren't small. Something like a Marine Elegance integrates all that into the toilet. In fact that's one of the marketing claims that ME uses (space).
 
I have no problems with using enough water. I put bidet inserts on both heads - :)
 
I suffered a Vacuflush for a couple of years before ripping it all out and installing a Marine Elegance. Five years of living aboard later - no problems. If I had my time over, I might install Tecma's instead.
 
mickand said:
I suffered a Vacuflush for a couple of years before ripping it all out and installing a Marine Elegance. Five years of living aboard later - no problems. If I had my time over, I might install Tecma's instead.
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25 years as a liveaboard with Vacuflush. Yes I have worn out a few items. Problems not really. Before Vacuflush my head always had an Oder. This is what I like about Vacuflush, it’s a vacuum system so no oder issues.

Now if I was starting with a blank slate I would be leaning very heavily towards Marine Elegance(proper no stink sanitation hose is a must). Note, the proper no stink hoses are not little 1” diameter hoses. These hoses reduce the claimed advantage of smaller hose run.

If I acquired an old boat where the Vacuflush was completely worn out (vacuum generators non functioning) I would lean towards the Marine Elegance for cost reasons.

I would not yank out a Vacuflush system just because it needed some maintenance. Ninety percent of the time a malfunction is cured by replacing the duck bill valves or the bowl gasket. After 15 years of normal service you might have a bellows split open. Many of the complaints we see here are on systems that were installed 30 years ago. If I were to acquire an old Vacuflush system on a new to me boat I would probably replace the toilet bases with new bases and install new duck bills and bellows in the vacuum generator. This would be a lot less cost than one Marine Elegance toilet.

The facts are that I would be happy with either a Marine Elegance system done right or a Vacuflush system done right and I would be unhappy with either system if it was not done right.
 
I use SaniFlex hose in 1” ID for my Marine Elegance head. That is what Raritan specs for the head.
 
Problem is you dance with the girl you brought.

We are currently having trouble with one of our two vacuflush heads. Currently going Newport RI to Hilton Head. Can’t use a pump out station unless it has great suction. One head works fine but the other one doesn’t develop suction at the bowl. The suction pump works fine but it just keeps going with the red light on to no avail. There’s no evidence of a air leak at the bowl.

My impression is the PO was a PIA and didn’t maintain the boat as he rarely used it. So sludge has developed and clogged the hose just before the accumulator tank.
Think the pump out issue is from either a clogged air vent or more likely the exit hose it self. We opened the tank at the tank tender and it didn’t help. That makes me think it’s the hose.
Believe these problems aren’t brand specific but poor use practices (not enough fluid use) and having a partial full system allowed to sit unattended for a long time.
Once we get to Hilton head hopefully will have time to address both problems.
 
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Problem is you dance with the girl you brought.

Not necessarily. When we bought our current boat it had a Vacuflush head. I told my wife that the first problem with it we would put in a Marine Elegance head. Well it had vacuum leaks the first year so it now has a ME head.

As to your clogged hoses maybe try OCDiver’s formula of sodium perconate and Tide laundry to help clean the hoses out. Before we replaced the Vacuflush head I flushed the mixture down several times and then I short cycled the vacuum pump and flushed more down so it would remain in the hose. Left it in the hose for about 3 days and then flushed it to empty the discharge hose. When I scoped the hose with a camera it was pretty clean. I then ran my new discharge hose inside the old hose. Worked great.
 
We’re going to be traveling for 10-12 days with limited fresh water, no water maker and 100 gallon tank for fresh water.

Could I use salt water to supplement the flushing process?
 
Terry Wilkinson said:
We’re going to be traveling for 10-12 days with limited fresh water, no water maker and 100 gallon tank for fresh water.

Could I use salt water to supplement the flushing process?
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Yes, you can take a bucket and pour it into the head and then flush. Keep in mind to flush every now and then to with fresh water to clean out the discharge hose. Urine and saltwater can make a crystal in the hose but if you flush with fresh water periodically then you should be fine.
 
Wonder how to do that with a clogged exit hose or when there’s no vacuum in the exhaust hose from the head. At present both are filled with fluid which doesn’t move at all. But thanks for the thought. Perhaps after there’s some flow so you could add stuff will go that route. For present will disconnect the higher end of the clogged hoses. Get the fluid out . Probably use a shop vac for that or a tube to a pump. Then disconnect the lower end and snake it. Then a bottle brush and string and pull that through. If there’s calcification take it on deck and bang it against a pole. Then use that suggestion. But if I have to remove the hose probably just replace it. If the hose is bad think about replacing as well using as much pvc as possible. Or/and best sanitation hose currently available. My feeling I want to work on sanitation systems as little as possible so happy to pay for new hose if it means avoiding future troubles.
 
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No way would I try to clean out old discharge hose and put it back in. I would just put in new SaniFlex hose and be done with it.
 
We are currently having trouble with one of our two vacuflush heads. Currently going Newport RI to Hilton Head. Can’t use a pump out station unless it has great suction.
Unless your VF is a "VHT" system in which the vacuum tank and holding tank are the same tank, your holding tank isn't a part of the VF system. It's downstream of it, same as all holding tanks are downstream of every other toilet. So any problems you have pumping out are a blockage in the discharge fitting, pumpout line or vent line.

One head works fine but the other one doesn’t develop suction at the bowl...
The vacuum pump isn't supposed to suck waste out of the bowl. It's only job is to [FONT=&quot]suction the air out of the plumbing between the toilet bowl and itself--re-establish vacuum--while simultaneously pushing the flush the rest of the way to the holding tank, treatment device or thru-hull. It's that accumulated vacuum that sucks the flush out of the bowl.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You're welcome to give me a shout via PM if you want to discuss in more detail.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]--Peggie[/FONT]
 
Vacuum Flush perfected with The Flush Guard

catalinajack said:
Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.
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By the nature of any leak making the pump run (and wear out, and possibly discharge your battery if away from shore) for vacuum flush toilets, you are right. However, since I swapped out the mechanical vacuum switch with "The Flush Guard", my problems completely ended.

If I have a leak, such as at the ball valve in the head, the flush guard detects it, and disables the vacuum pump. Cycling the power resets the flush guard, and usually flushing again clears the leak. The key is that the flush guard does not allow the pump to run endlessly.

With this, the only maintenance required is replacing the duck bill valves every 10 years, which is far easier than replacing a macerator pump that has seized because it seals eventually leaked.

I also find that the vacuum flush toilets use very little water, so I rarely need pump outs in my Hatteras (100 gallon holding tank).
 
I would just bring along water in a water jug. The vacuum flush toilets use very little water. My guess is that 5 gallons would get you more than 50 flushes.
 
Hippocampus said:
Wonder how to do that with a clogged exit hose or when there’s no vacuum in the exhaust hose from the head. At present both are filled with fluid which doesn’t move at all. But thanks for the thought. Perhaps after there’s some flow so you could add stuff will go that route. For present will disconnect the higher end of the clogged hoses. Get the fluid out . Probably use a shop vac for that or a tube to a pump. Then disconnect the lower end and snake it. Then a bottle brush and string and pull that through. If there’s calcification take it on deck and bang it against a pole. Then use that suggestion. But if I have to remove the hose probably just replace it. If the hose is bad think about replacing as well using as much pvc as possible. Or/and best sanitation hose currently available. My feeling I want to work on sanitation systems as little as possible so happy to pay for new hose if it means avoiding future troubles.
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Both heads pump to the same tank? I’d suspect two separate but connected issues. Blockages at the tank fittings making pump out difficult, and something in the pump check valves preventing the pump from pumping.
While Peggy is correct that the pump isn’t really for pumping sewage, it is in fact pretty efficient at doing exactly that as evidenced by the t series pump. A blockage after the pump makes it tough for the valves to close properly as the back pressure distorts the rubber and fluid just moves back and forth inside the pump. Blockage on the input side will keep the pump from moving the material forward as well. Before pulling any hoses, I’d use a simple plunger and see if I could dislodge the blockage at the pump. The pumpout problem may require something to dissolve the contents of the tank.
Different paper might be in your future.
 
Hippocampus said:
Wonder how to do that with a clogged exit hose or when there’s no vacuum in the exhaust hose from the head. At present both are filled with fluid which doesn’t move at all. But thanks for the thought. Perhaps after there’s some flow so you could add stuff will go that route. For present will disconnect the higher end of the clogged hoses. Get the fluid out . Probably use a shop vac for that or a tube to a pump. Then disconnect the lower end and snake it. Then a bottle brush and string and pull that through. If there’s calcification take it on deck and bang it against a pole. Then use that suggestion. But if I have to remove the hose probably just replace it. If the hose is bad think about replacing as well using as much pvc as possible. Or/and best sanitation hose currently available. My feeling I want to work on sanitation systems as little as possible so happy to pay for new hose if it means avoiding future troubles.
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Just turn off the water, turn off the pump, and use a plunger. I have never had to clean out a hose, but I have cleared the occasional problem this way. I assumed my duck bill valves were fouled with debris, and this method has always worked.
 
I replaced the vacuum switch with "The Flush Guard". It took about 15 minutes and completely eliminated the pump running all the time. With the stock vacuum switch there is nothing to stop the pump from running all the time when a leak occurs at the ball or duck bill valves, which, by its nature, will occur occasionally, and if you are not at the boat, you vacuum pump motor can wear out or your battery can be discharged. Normally I find that flushing again clears the debris and fixes the leak.

On the very rare cases where the toilet wont go down, I turn off the water (my Hatteras has a water valve for each head), turn off the pump, hold the ball valve open at the head by holding down the flush lever, and use a plunger. I have never had to disassemble anything, except for the easy job of replacing the duck bill valves every 10 years. Since adding the flush guard, I never worry about the pump running, and I never bother to turn off the toilets when away from the boat.
 
The Flush Guard also prevents the toilet pump from coming on at random in the middle of the night. I am surprised I do not hear more about it, as it basically solves all the problems with vacuum flush systems. I never turn my toilet off anymore, and it can not run due to leak. I wouldn't consider replacing the vacuum toilet system, especially since it uses so little water.
 
Before doing all that, try a plunger! It has always worked for me. Turn off the water, and the toilet pump, hold the toilet ball valve open by pressing the flush lever down, and plunge away. I call this "Red Alert Level 2"! (Level 1 is just flushing again, level 3 is disassembly, which I have never done due to a plugged system.)

The duck bill valves allow passage one way (to the holding tank), so the holding tank can not be full, or this won't work.

If you overfill you holding tank, you run the risk of the vent line clogging. If this happens, you will find pump outs are slow or impossible unless you hold a toilet open (as you do when you use the plunger).
 
catalinajack said:
Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.
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I see 35 to 40 year old boats with Vacuflush heads. How many millions do you suppose they've sold?

Don't know how long Marine Elegance have been around or how many they've sold.

Are Ford Lehmans bad engines because of the number of threads about fixing them?

Ted
 
DDW said:
^^ This is the solution. You will spend more on Vacuflush rebuild kits and spare parts in the next few years than the Marine Elegance will cost.
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I would tend to agree. If it was me! Just the bowl seal needing replacement, I would go for it. But there is more to maintained with a vac-u-flush. I had one and it worked great. But to complicated!

I like the idea on the just the macerator and a solenoid valve to maintain! Too simple and easy to fix. Yes, they do use more water.
 
catalinajack said:
Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.
Click to expand...

Good question. For many of us learning how to take care of the VF is just part of the game. That said, our vacuum pumps are in easy to reach locations. Pity those who had the builder bury the vacuum pumps.
 
I think there is a tendency to replace parts on a vacuum flush system prematurely. My boat is almost 30 years old, and I have owned it for 15, and the only parts I have replaced was one set of duck bill valves. (I think it is time for another set though). However, I do have leaks at the ball valve in the toilet at the beginning of the season. I just give it some time, and it has always straightened itself out. Apparently not having vacuum applied to it, or maybe water, has an effect on it temporarily.

I also have an occasion where I lose vacuum when "debris" is flushed, and it takes a second flush.

The real worry was that the vacuum pump could run endlessly until things settled down, and I don't want to kill one of those. This is why I replaced the vacuum switches with the flush guard. Now when I have a leak, all it means is that I have to cycle the power to restart the pump before I use the head, and more importantly, I CAN TOLERATE a leak!

If I measure how good/bad a toilet system is by how often the smelly parts have to be disassembled, I would rate my vacuum flush as very good, and water usage as excellent.
 
Agree. Believe my situation could happen to any system.

Had trouble with a marine elegance until we rerouted the route the hose took to the holding tank. Still liked the elegance better. Had a setting for #1 and #2. Could use salt if you were low on fresh. Did it’s job. Been told by a tech mechanical pump heads tend to have more troubles than most brands of electric heads. People just don’t pump enough so more clogged hoses. Come to think having enough volume of flow is important. Think my troubles are do to the horse put away wet and not allowed to gallup often enough.
 
All of the heads have problems when enough water isn’t flushed down after a poop. When I installed the new ME head I used 1” discharge hose which is what Raritan recommends. It takes 1.5 gallons to fill the entire hose and flush it clean as compared to 1.5” that takes 3.3 gallons. So there is a considerable flush water savings with my ME as compared to a head that uses 1.5” hose.
 
My boat has Headhunters. Never see questions about those either
 
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