Vaccuflush head cycling

[Capt. Rodbone]

We have been in a marina for a week after a three day shakedown cruise on our new to us GB 42 for a week. My bride went home for a few days while I stayed to work on projects. During the trip we just used the forward head because the aft head in our cabin cycled almost constantly when the breaker was on. I now have it down to where it now cycles every 9 minutes.

Would this be considered normal timing? She’s coming back tomorrow, is a light sleeper, and I expect to be asked about it. We can of course turn if off at night, but then have to go up and flip the breaker when used then back up to turn off.

 

[Comodave]

No it should hold vacuum for at least a week or more. The leak problems are why I don’t care for the Vacuflush head. Too much maintenance.

 

[O C Diver]

Mine typically hold vacuum for about a month. Common areas for leaks are where hoses are connected to hard fittings, the seal between the bowl and the base,the duck bill valves and diaphragm in the pump, and the vacuum control on the reservoir.

If it's an older boat and you're mechanically inclined, rebuilding the systems is probably a good idea. I did that to both my systems by replacing the diaphragms, orings, and bellows in the pump. I replaced the seal between the bowl and base, and the valve assembly in the toilets. Finally, I replaced all the sanitation hose. It took me a few days with running the sanitation hose being the hardest part. Now I replace the duck bill valves every 3 years and the diaphragms every 6 years. Preventitive maintenance at a time of your choosing, beats working in yours or somebody else's excrement. The system can be very easily cleaned by filling it with a solution of Tide, Sodium Percarbonate, and water.

I keep a spare set (4) of duck bill valves, a diaphragm, and a vacuum switch assembly as spares on the boat. Other than replacing a vacuum switch assembly and doing the above PM, I haven't done any repairs in the last 7 years of spring, summer, fall cruising (touch wood).

Ted

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

Older? Yes she is. Me mechanically inclined? Jury is still out

Thank you for such a thorough reply. I am going to research where to get those spare parts and offer a complete kit. Hopefully they sell it that way. I ordered Peggy Hall‘s book on everything head related however I was disappointed to see there was less information in their own vacuum flush then any other brand. The boat is a 1978. I got quite a bit of manual type information with her however nothing related to the heads.

It’s not likely this brand has just one system so am I to provide a model or serial number to them when I order?

 

[Bmarler]

Thank you for such a thorough reply. I am going to research where to get those spare parts and offer a complete kit. Hopefully they sell it that way. I ordered Peggy Hall‘s book on everything head related however I was disappointed to see there was less information in their own vacuum flush then any other brand. The boat is a 1978. I got quite a bit of manual type information with her however nothing related to the heads.

It’s not likely this brand has just one system so am I to provide a model or serial number to them when I order?

The vacuum generator/pump parts are pretty generic, as are some of the actual toilet parts. I think the spring cartridge interchanges. The bowl seals and other toilet parts may be model specific. It would be best to identify the model so you get the correct parts.

 

[hollywood8118]

The very first thing to look for is "debris" stuck around the rubber seal at the ball valve. Turn off the unit and using a toilet brush fully open the flush valve and run the brush around just inside the opening. Water will run into the bowl at the same time and there may be something at that spot keeping the seal from making complete contact. turn the power back on and do this a couple of times. Also lift the foot peddle and fill the bowl so there is some water head pressure on the non vacuum side of the seal. This is the common issue I see with ours. I am pretty happy with ours and it has been the least maintenance toilet we have owned.
If the installer had not put the vacuum tank under the master stateroom bed it would be perfect. Nothing worse than waking up to the grrr...slosh grrr..slosh sound of a guest using the head in the night!.
Hollywood

 

[HeadMistress]

The "leak" may just be bits of waste and/or TP caught in duckbill valves (a result of using too little flush water) or the need to replace the duckbill valves due to age.


I've written a piece I call "VacuFlush 101" that explains how the system works and how much water it actually needs to remain trouble-free that I'll be glad to send you, along with the VF troubleshooting guide if you'd like to send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).


--Peggie

 

[rochepoint]

Here is a link to the Vacuflush trouble shooting guide that is in the forum library.......https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=5

 

[Moonfish]

I fixed my constantly running Vacuflush by replacing it with a Marine Elegance...

Seriously, I have been maintaining and repairing two of them for 10 years. I had essentially completely rebuilt the one I replaced (even a new vacuum switch when all else failed) and it still ran. It wasn't until I pulled the old hose off the back when removing the toilet that I discovered a hair line crack in the hose. Doh!

Right after installing the Marine Elegance forward, our aft Vacuflush began randomly coming on. I have discovered that the clamps on the brand new sanitation hose (put on prior to replacing the forward head) loosens over time. I tighten the clamps, and the running stops. For a few weeks anyway, until I need to retighten again.

 

[DDW]

I fixed my constantly running Vacuflush by replacing it with a Marine Elegance...

^^ This is the solution. You will spend more on Vacuflush rebuild kits and spare parts in the next few years than the Marine Elegance will cost.

 

[sunchaser]

Maintaining our two vacu flushes requires less work than changing oil, waxing, boat washing, filter changes or raw water pump replacement. Then comes in the fiddling with instruments!

Egads boat care and maintenance is a chore. So many things to learn

 

[Endeavor GB 32]

We have a 32 GB with a Vacuflush head. It will go months and months without losing vacuum. In the past we have had 3 other GB's 42-46' plus a Fleming 50, all with Vacuflush heads. All mostly trouble free outside of guests not following the rules ;-) The most common reasons in my experience with cycling are as Hollywood described. Chances are good that it's something simple, good luck!
Scott

 

[CaptBud]

Get a new flush valve, you might have a weak or broken spring or a worn seal

 

[Comodave]

When I replaced the Vacuflush with the Marine Elegance I replaced all the discharge hose from the head to the tank. I did some prep including using Ted’s, OC Diver, cleaning process. I left the sodium perconate and Tide mixture in the old discharge hose for several days. Then I cut the old discharge hose where it came out of over the top of one of the fuel tanks. The area is completely inaccessible. Then I scoped the hose to see if there was any buildup in the hose. It was pretty clean and no buildup. The old hose is 1.5” ID. The ME head uses 1” ID hose. I used SaniFlex hose and the 1” ID is 1.375” OD. So using wire pulling lube I pulled the new hose through the old hose. It went incredibly easy. My wife timed how long it took for 3 of us to run 36’ of new discharge hose, 57 minutes. What a relief that it actually worked. It saved me from having to cut holes in our galley cabinets and then running the new hose over the fuel tanks but leaving it unsecured since there isn’t access to tie it down. So now the new hose is completely secure. And it was easy to do. And I never have to work on the Vacuflush head ever again. All of the ME mechanical parts are in the head itself so servicing it is pretty easy. This is the 3rd boat I have put a ME head in and have never had to work on any of them. And they never leak vacuum…

 

[rcsomany]

Replacing Vacuflush Seal Kit

I had a similar but not as drastic a problem.
I followed this to solve it...

 

[old-School]

We have been in a marina for a week after a three day shakedown cruise on our new to us GB 42 for a week. My bride went home for a few days while I stayed to work on projects. During the trip we just used the forward head because the aft head in our cabin cycled almost constantly when the breaker was on. I now have it down to where it now cycles every 9 minutes.

Would this be considered normal timing? She’s coming back tomorrow, is a light sleeper, and I expect to be asked about it. We can of course turn if off at night, but then have to go up and flip the breaker when used then back up to turn off.

You probably have a vacuum leak. I only base my opinion on my own experience of 15 years on a GB 42 Classic.

 

[Hatteras Sportdeck]

VaccuFlush Fixed

I had the same problem with my vaccuum flush system. It is the nature of the system, and it can be a bit difficult to find the leak. In my experience it has always been at the toilet ball valve, or the duck bill valves. I have not had any leaks in the connections.

However, the leak at the toilet ball valve is going to occur from time to time, as even a single grain of sand will prevent it from sealing. Usually flushing again fixes it for me, but in the meantime, the pump could have been running for hours.

I lived in fear of destroying my expensive vacuum pumps, so I replaced the mechanical vacuum switch with the electronic version called theflushguard. It is at the website with the same name.

It is also much nicer with guests now, as I don't have to worry about their head running all night.

You will still have to find the leak, but at least you won't kill your pump in the meantime.

 

[Osprey69]

Mine cycled a bit when we first got the boat. When we started using it it seemed to clean itself out after a time as it stopped cycling and was fine. May not be your problem, but try flushing a dozen times to see if that is an easy fix.

 

[Conrad]

The very first thing to look for is "debris" stuck around the rubber seal at the ball valve. Turn off the unit and using a toilet brush fully open the flush valve and run the brush around just inside the opening. Water will run into the bowl at the same time and there may be something at that spot keeping the seal from making complete contact. turn the power back on and do this a couple of times. Also lift the foot peddle and fill the bowl so there is some water head pressure on the non vacuum side of the seal. This is the common issue I see with ours. I am pretty happy with ours and it has been the least maintenance toilet we have owned.
If the installer had not put the vacuum tank under the master stateroom bed it would be perfect. Nothing worse than waking up to the grrr...slosh grrr..slosh sound of a guest using the head in the night!.
Hollywood

My thoughts exactly. We've had ours (two VF systems) on Blue Sky for nine years without major issues. Yes, we do have the recycling happen on occasion but using Hollywood's procedure fixes it every time, although I don't turn anything off; I just press down on the peddle, brush around the opening, and that invariably fixes it.
One key thing is that when you release the peddle, let it snap back up otherwise it sometimes won't seat properly.

 

[catalinajack]

Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.

 

[Bmarler]

Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.

what about this one? https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s31/bad-joker-valve-keeps-head-flushing-17031.html

 

[ksanders]

Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.

Not really.

The vaccuflush system was OEM equipment on many brands of boats for Decades.

There is a HUGE installed base.

By comparison the Marine Elegance is relatively new, and many of the installed units are still in the "honeymoon" period we get with a new piece of equipment.

I'm not saying anything bad about the Marine Elegance heads. Quite the contrary. That said the vaccuflush system is pretty easy to take care of if it is installed in a relatively accessible location.

Looking at the exploded parts view of the marine elegance leaves me with a question...

When it has a problem, how are you going to work on it without removing the unit completely.

 

[Comodave]

Not really.

The vaccuflush system was OEM equipment on many brands of boats for Decades.

There is a HUGE installed base.

By comparison the Marine Elegance is relatively new, and many of the installed units are still in the "honeymoon" period we get with a new piece of equipment.

I'm not saying anything bad about the Marine Elegance heads. Quite the contrary. That said the vaccuflush system is pretty easy to take care of if it is installed in a relatively accessible location.

IF it is installed in an accessible location…. Like boat manufacturers do that. The ME head has all of the serviceable parts located in the head itself. I have put one in 3 boats now and never had to do anything to them dating back to 2012. That is well past any honeymoon period. But the Vacuflush in our current boat was leaking when we bought the boat. But it is fixed now. I put in a Marine Elegance head, no more maintenance issues…

 

[ksanders]

IF it is installed in an accessible location…. Like boat manufacturers do that. The ME head has all of the serviceable parts located in the head itself. I have put one in 3 boats now and never had to do anything to them dating back to 2012. That is well past any honeymoon period. But the Vacuflush in our current boat was leaking when we bought the boat. But it is fixed now. I put in a Marine Elegance head, no more maintenance issues…

Dave, I could make a similar argument. I replaced the service parts on my two Vacuflush heads several years ago, I have to look at my logbooks but I'm guessing 8 years.

I have done nothing to them since. Perfectly reliable.

Next week I'm going to replace my sanitation hoses and will change the duckbills at that time, but I have a really reliable history, and have lived on my boat almost full time since 2017, and my heads were installed OEM 21 years ago.

Everything has a useful service life, and I would argue that many vacuflush systems are at a point that they need to be replaced or have a major rebuild.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I do preventive maintenance on my 2 VF. Every spring, I replace all the duckbills and bowl seals. This way, I have no issues when we are in the wilderness. I also carry enough spare parts to rebuild the entire system. (Minus hoses) Why? Admiral does not like pooping in a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[Insequent]

I have 2 VF on board. Both fully rebuilt during refit 10 years ago. Issues on and off since then, but nothing major. However. parts are very expensive in Australia and as others note you basically need to have a spare for everything on board.

The PO had installed on/off switches near the VF's to avoid the "turn breaker off at night" solution. Against the yards advice I insisted they remain, and glad I did. Inevitably you get loss of vacuum from time to time, and sometimes quite difficult to find where. A guy on TF a few years ago came up with a great workaround. Instead of just a simple on/off, use a timer relay. I put some in with something like 6-7 minutes for "on" time. When entering the head, press the relay. Sometimes the vacuum pump will start, most times not as there is still vacuum. When you flush, just make sure the relay is still active (install a little LED to indicate power on). With this mod you wont have the annoying cycling during the night.

Now sure, getting rid of all vacuum leaks is better, and by all means do all of the troubleshooting things and service regularly. But on that, if you use lots of water as Peggy suggests the duckbills can go years without needing replacement.

The one failure you don't want, trust me, is a bellows failure. Very messy! The pump o-rings blow out and you end up with s**t everywhere. So definitely don't skimp of scheduled replacement of that item. If I ever get another bellows failure the whole system is likely to end up thrown over the side during cleanup and an ME or similar installed

 

[AlanT]

The one failure you don't want, trust me, is a bellows failure. Very messy! The pump o-rings blow out and you end up with s**t everywhere. So definitely don't skimp of scheduled replacement of that item. If I ever get another bellows failure the whole system is likely to end up thrown over the side during cleanup and an ME or similar installed

That is what I had to deal with this year. One of three vacuflush units blew out the bellows on my current boat. I've only had the boat 3 years and no service records so no idea if they have been overhauled since installation 25 years ago. The pressure units are in a fairly large void space, however access is tight and I cannot get into it with more than one outstretched hand, so had to hire help for the replacement. I wound up getting all 3 units fully serviced, new bellows duckbills, hoses etc etc. around $5k.

 

[Comodave]

Ok, even if I were ever to have a problem with my Marine Elegance head I don’t see it blowing crap all over. Sorry, Kevin, but I don’t want that. You may be the only one that doesn’t have vacuum leaks and ongoing issues. I don’t need any timers or the like.

 

[HeadMistress]

Question for pondering: why is it that we see many threads asking about Vacuflush head problems and never a single one have I seen about Marine Elegance electric heads? Doesn't that speak volumes.

Not just the Elegance, but almost every other electric toilet too...and at least 75% of the problems are caused by using too little flush water.

Dometic/SeaLand's claims of "as little as" 1 pint of water originated when the VF was the first toilet to use pressurized water and needd less than 1-3 GALLONS/flush (and also drew 30-50 amps)...and they took "as little as 1 pint" from direct drop RV toilets that only need enough water to rinse the bowl and have only the hose to the holding tank. The VF flush water flow isn't even enough to fill the discharge hose, much less clean out the pump and duckbills valves, so bits of waste and TP get stuck to 'em. Keeping the system clean requires keeping the pedal down for a full 3 seconds after urine only with no TP, 7-10 seconds--and at least a half bowl of water--for solids. I've also always recommended a full bowl of water once a day to thoroughly rinse out the entire system. Today's macerating electric toilets typically use only about 1 liter of water, which is enough to rinse the plumbing.

--Peggie


p.s. If anyone else would like a copy of my "VacuFlush 101" piece, send me a PM that include your email address (no way to attach anythhing to a PM) and I'll be glad to send it to you.

 

[Comodave]

And the ME head uses a 1” discharge hose so it takes substantially less water to flush the hose clean than a 1.5” hose does.