Trying to purchase a boat is a joke!!

[PM]

Shrew hit it on the head. Don't use email or text when contacting a seller or broker. It is way to easy for a tire kicker to use texts or email. Sellers and brokers must get a lot of these responses.

Pick up the phone and make several calls until you catch someone in their office.

pete

 

[tiltrider1]

The plan you outline is certainly doable. It is even possibly doable with your current budget plans. However, it is only doable by a small percentage of experienced boaters.

I am not going to discourage you from your dream. I do recommend that you have a back up plan or at the very least a sizable cash reserve to weather the unexpected which will pop up on such an adventure.

Note, you can not stay year round in Canada with out the proper Visa’s and you won’t find any suitable winter anchorage in the US until you reach the Sacramento delta.

 

[GrandWood]

The plan you outline is certainly doable. It is even possibly doable with your current budget plans. However, it is only doable by a small percentage of experienced boaters.

I am not going to discourage you from your dream. I do recommend that you have a back up plan or at the very least a sizable cash reserve to weather the unexpected which will pop up on such an adventure.

Note, you can not stay year round in Canada with out the proper Visa’s and you won’t find any suitable winter anchorage in the US until you reach the Sacramento delta.

Yes sir, I under stand that, Canada summers, and down to the SF Bay Area to winter first seasons. And yes on the money, will have a good stock pile in reserve, which is why the 50k budget, to ensure I have plenty of reserve for unexpected expense.

I have made a moderate wage my entire life, always able to supplement my income by either second job, small home business, like here in colorado, summer I grow a large garden and attend farmers market on weekends, winter I plow with my quad. Currently selling off a lifetime of collectibles, sports cards, coins, paper money, beef up my reserve.

I’m not devoid of hardship in my life either, been here in colorado for 27 years at 7k ft, many years I’ve had to melt snow to be able to flush the toilet or make a pot of coffee. I can take it when times are rough. Doesn’t bother me.

I’m not going to be the boater, chilling on the rear deck sucking down sundowners, that is not my style, i dont drink or use anything that will mess with me, I will be fishing, foraging, pulling traps, or putzing around the boat or just enjoying the area with all the toys available to enjoy the water.

We have a two person ocean kayak, snorkeling gear, spear fishing rigs( lakes here in CO) 12 ft Hobie holder sailboat, and with a dingy and recent purchases for the boat aka underwater scooter, drone, gimbeled video camera, and computer equipment I feel like I can make enough vlogging, shooting are escapades on YouTube and such to pay for fuel and maybe more. My son is a graphics designer, past 15 yrs, and has a very good understanding of all that. We will be working as well and cruising.

I have spent the better part of two yrs now getting my ducks in a row

 

[GrandWood]

It’s just finding the right boat, I feel 36ft is plenty for the two of us GB42 would be preferable and understand I need tankage, water, black water and fuel. I would like a water maker, ais, heat, decent electronics which I think WiFi radar and all the iPads we have I should be fine.

Thanks again to all

 

[Portage_Bay]

A financial note of caution regarding older inexpensive boats. I'm on #3. Total cost to get them ready for serious cruising can double or triple the initial purchase price. Shop very carefully.

I never got #1 and #2 ready because I under estimated costs. And because I was living abroad while working on them.

To have gotten them done in a timely manner I should have rented a place while working on them.

 

[mvweebles]

A financial note of caution regarding older inexpensive boats. I'm on #3. Total cost to get them ready for serious cruising can double or triple the initial purchase price. Shop very carefully.

I never got #1 and #2 ready because I under estimated costs. And because I was living abroad while working on them.

To have gotten them done in a timely manner I should have rented a place while working on them.

Cheap boats can be really expensive. Heck, I recently spent over $1k 316 SS fasteners just for inventory. Exhaust hose is $20/foot. 1.5" hose for head is $12/ft. 3M 4000UV is $25/tube. It really adds-up fast. Or look at it this way: There isn't a boat owner out there who will say that you get more than about 50% for any upgrades. And that's at the top end - could easily 0%. So the inverse is true - you will have to spend twice as much to get the upgrade that may already be included in a good condition boat. Ground tackle can be really expensive - windlass, 250-300 ft 5/16" chain and a quality anchor is close to $5000 new. Adds $0 to a used boat (though absense of this will subtract).

As far as your cruising plan, you'll be in for a reality check. But sounds like you're up for that.

Craigslist is your best bet in your price range. Try SearchTempest.com to blanket all Craigslist's in your general area. Looks like if you can increase your budget to even $75k you'll have more selection.

This may sound condescending, but you are really stacking the deck against you. Marriage, boat, lifestyle - lot of adjustment and learning curve. You could reduce stress in at least the boat by spending a bit more upfront and considering fiberglass instead of wood.

Good luck -

Peter

Here's some miscellaneous boat-porn I found off CL via SearchTempest.

https://bellingham.craigslist.org/boa/d/blaine-trawler-42-ideal-family-unit/7573016876.html
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/bod/d/powell-river-converted-ex-troller/7590227983.html
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/bod/d/parksville-pleasure-trawler-motor-yacht/7584480174.html

 

[Action]

You could reduce stress in at least the boat by spending a bit more upfront and considering fiberglass instead of wood.

Good luck -

Peter

I am not expert in boats. My experience is limited to 3 smaller than yacht sized vessels.

Isn't a fibreglass hull far less maintenance in cost and labor than wood?
Or at least that is my bias.

 

[mvweebles]

I am not expert in boats. My experience is limited to 3 smaller than yacht sized vessels.

Isn't a fibreglass hull far less maintenance in cost and labor than wood?
Or at least that is my bias.

Underside of an 82-foot wood motoryacht. Planking has been removed to expose the ribs - they are entirely rotted through. These are beneath the fuel tanks and hidden from view. This is the type of work that can really waste a lot of time and money - laydays in the yard alone.

BTW - this boat is in Ensenada because the new owner could not find a yard in SoCal who would haul the boat. And then there is insurance, and marinas can be pretty picky about wood boats too. In my opnion, wood boats are not a good starter-boat - there's enough to do and learn already.

Peter

 

[GrandWood]

I am not expert in boats. My experience is limited to 3 smaller than yacht sized vessels.

Isn't a fibreglass hull far less maintenance in cost and labor than wood?
Or at least that is my bias.

Maybe time between bottom paint, if you have a solid wood hull that’s been taken care of, should not be a problem. My understanding is ever two years haul a wood boat for bottom paint.

I’ve read that wood hulls are quieter when at anchor when water is slapping the hull, they are warmer, and they don’t have problems with condensation like a fiberglass one.

 

[Action]

OK and I am not going to list pros and cons of wood. (v plastic)
However, it seems to me that if wood was the superior material, more vessels would be made of that material.

Even the manufacturer of the yechts you are considering no longer use wood.

I suspect the benefits of plastic versus wood are great. So great that the vast majority yacht builders no longer consider wood as a viable material to use in building a yacht. And I am pretty sure there are trade offs for both material.

I get it that an older yacht especially one made of wood is going to have a low market value. And your budget is low for this purchase. I have somewhat of the same expectation which is the factor for me is age. These things do not appreciate for the most part. I am good with a well maintained yacht from the late 80s to early 90s. And I also understand these are complex pieces of machinery with lots of systems. Becuase of that when I am ready to make a deposit, I am good with walking away from pretty paint that has an ugly side. Structural wood pieces just add an addition level of complexity to a vessel thatI expect to relax on. Just my ignorant opinion.

You do what's good for you. Much luck and smooth sailing.

 

[SteveK]

OK and I am not going to list pros and cons of wood. (v plastic)
However, it seems to me that if wood was the superior material, more vessels would be made of that material.

Even the manufacturer of the yechts you are considering no longer use wood.

I suspect the benefits of plastic versus wood are great. So great that the vast majority yacht builders no longer consider wood as a viable material to use in building a yacht. And I am pretty sure there are trade offs for both material.

I get it that an older yacht especially one made of wood is going to have a low market value. And your budget is low for this purchase. I have somewhat of the same expectation which is the factor for me is age. These things do not appreciate for the most part. I am good with a well maintained yacht from the late 80s to early 90s. And I also understand these are complex pieces of machinery with lots of systems. Becuase of that when I am ready to make a deposit, I am good with walking away from pretty paint that has an ugly side. Structural wood pieces just add an addition level of complexity to a vessel thatI expect to relax on. Just my ignorant opinion.

You do what's good for you. Much luck and smooth sailing.

The transition from wood may have had something to do with the availability of the type of wood used in quality older boats. A few years ago there was mention of large areas of valuable rain forest being bulldozed.
All wood hulls are not the same wood, nor do all wood hulls survive in southern waters due to wood bugs. The GB woodie has Carvel planked Phillippine mahogany on yacal ribs. Never heard of Yacal until owning a GB. The wood is tuff as steel. The teak deck (on the older ones) are bedded in Thiokol over plywood. Bronze fasteners were used.

There is more plastic boats now due to the ease of construction with man made chemicals. If you find a plastic boat in the same ballpark price there is a bigger problem to be found. All plastic boats are not built the same. Why are there so many 50+ year old wood boats but lesser numbers of some 40+ plastic?

Everyone should have the choice of what they want. Just google and see how many companies still build boats with wood.

 

[GrandWood]

OK and I am not going to list pros and cons of wood. (v plastic)
However, it seems to me that if wood was the superior material, more vessels would be made of that material.

Even the manufacturer of the yechts you are considering no longer use wood.

I suspect the benefits of plastic versus wood are great. So great that the vast majority yacht builders no longer consider wood as a viable material to use in building a yacht. And I am pretty sure there are trade offs for both material.

I get it that an older yacht especially one made of wood is going to have a low market value. And your budget is low for this purchase. I have somewhat of the same expectation which is the factor for me is age. These things do not appreciate for the most part. I am good with a well maintained yacht from the late 80s to early 90s. And I also understand these are complex pieces of machinery with lots of systems. Becuase of that when I am ready to make a deposit, I am good with walking away from pretty paint that has an ugly side. Structural wood pieces just add an addition level of complexity to a vessel thatI expect to relax on. Just my ignorant opinion.

You do what's good for you. Much luck and smooth sailing.

No worries sir, multiple options are welcome and appreciated. From what I have read in the past is, the main reason boat builders went from wood to fiberglass was expense, cheaper to build then wood. There are plenty of wooden boats from the 30s, 40s, and 50s in the pnw, it’s a thing there, and the reason I’m looking in that area, along with cruising that area. I won’t be around to compare, but IMO, I doubt there will be 70, 80, 90 yr old plastic tubs still afloat in the future.

 

[Comodave]

The transition from wood may have had something to do with the availability of the type of wood used in quality older boats. A few years ago there was mention of large areas of valuable rain forest being bulldozed.
All wood hulls are not the same wood, nor do all wood hulls survive in southern waters due to wood bugs. The GB woodie has Carvel planked Phillippine mahogany on yacal ribs. Never heard of Yacal until owning a GB. The wood is tuff as steel. The teak deck (on the older ones) are bedded in Thiokol over plywood. Bronze fasteners were used.

There is more plastic boats now due to the ease of construction with man made chemicals. If you find a plastic boat in the same ballpark price there is a bigger problem to be found. All plastic boats are not built the same. Why are there so many 50+ year old wood boats but lesser numbers of some 40+ plastic?

Everyone should have the choice of what they want. Just google and see how many companies still build boats with wood.

Why aren’t there as many old fiberglass boats as wood boats? Most likely because fiberglass hasn’t been on the marker as long as the old woodies. In another 20 years there will be a huge number of really old glass boats and almost no old woodies. The fiberglass hull can last forever with routine maintenance. Sure there are crappy glass boats out there just as there were crappy woodies. But the glass boats can last indefinitely without extreme maintenance like the one in Peters photos above. What will that cost to repair the rotten structure of that boat? As the somg says, rust never sleeps, neither does rot.

 

[CharlieO.]

You mean like this
https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/d/gig-harbor-alaskan-49-hull-39/7574298410.html
I have no affiliation and know nothing about it

 

[mvweebles]

I doubt there will be 70, 80, 90 yr old plastic tubs still afloat in the future.

Weebles, a 1970 boat, is now 53 years old. I know her sistership Rattler, hull #1 from 1961 - 62 years old. Barring an insurable event or abject neglect, both boats should see 100 years.

I have to push back on the ideas that wood boats are warmer, quieter, and drier. If that were true to any great degree, buy a cored fiberglass boat without windows. Windows are sweat and leak heat. Want a quiet boat at anchor? Get a displacement design without hull steps for planing.

I love older designs. Sometimes you have to go wood to have a classic. One of the few YouTube boat channels I follow is Madison Boatworks, a younger couple cruising an old Ingrid Ketch. He's an amazing boatwright. Right boat for him, he's the right owner for the boat.

OP, your experience may be different - I really hope it is. But I'm pretty sure there are many dead wooden boats who's last owner was a well meaning but under capitalized owner who's DIY skills came from house projects, not marine. Yea, I know, everyone says same part in a marine store is double the price. Sometimes. But almost always the right part can only be found from a marine supplier.

Peter

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, wood boats.

While I was spending time in Alameda getting new heads installed, getting trained and changing oils and filters, my broker and I were chatting and there was this really good looking (had to be 100 feet long) and he mentioned that it would be hitting the scrap yard soon. Wood hull cracked during the last haul out attempt, so can't be hauled with a sling and needs to be hauled to fix the hull. Catch 22.

 

[GrandWood]

You mean like this
https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/d/gig-harbor-alaskan-49-hull-39/7574298410.html
I have no affiliation and know nothing about it

Charlie I have been following that boat for over a year now and it has consistantly came down from a 80k asking price at the start I. Same condition as shown. Tha t boat had dry rot above the waterline you could see right through, I doubt the bottom will be any better.

And one look at the engine room and engines, pretty much tells about the owners care for there boat. With the price now it’s appealing, but just looking there’s a lot of cash need to get it in order. I mean the heads aren’t even in place. I can’t imagine the smell of open sewer that’s gonna be in there.

Love to be able to afford a Alaskan, but that ones a pass for me

 

[CharlieO.]

I figured there was a reason I've seen it pop up from time to time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Range...c-a7a4-43c4-b31f-49744dee561e&redirect=mobile

 

[Comodave]

I love the look of the Alaskans, typical of a Defever design. But no way would I buy a wooden boat. If this was fiberglass then it would be an awesome boat.

 

[GrandWood]

Weebles, a 1970 boat, is now 53 years old. I know her sistership Rattler, hull #1 from 1961 - 62 years old. Barring an insurable event or abject neglect, both boats should see 100 years.

I have to push back on the ideas that wood boats are warmer, quieter, and drier. If that were true to any great degree, buy a cored fiberglass boat without windows. Windows are sweat and leak heat. Want a quiet boat at anchor? Get a displacement design without hull steps for planing.

I love older designs. Sometimes you have to go wood to have a classic. One of the few YouTube boat channels I follow is Madison Boatworks, a younger couple cruising an old Ingrid Ketch. He's an amazing boatwright. Right boat for him, he's the right owner for the boat.

OP, your experience may be different - I really hope it is. But I'm pretty sure there are many dead wooden boats who's last owner was a well meaning but under capitalized owner who's DIY skills came from house projects, not marine. Yea, I know, everyone says same part in a marine store is double the price. Sometimes. But almost always the right part can only be found from a marine supplier.

Peter

5 yrs in Galveston, TX, building custom homes on Tiki island, working alongside a custom cabinet maker, I’m pretty good with wood, not a pro by any means but do well. Worked weekends on a shrimp boat along the inter coastal waterway, all the shrimp and fish I wanted was my pay, never had to buy meat unless I wanted something different.

After HS, I worked with my uncle installing plumbing in new homes, my father worked part time installing electrical in homes, I helped him often. I have lots of skills, I was never one to stay at a job very long, I like learning new things, never had the stamina to master anything. My father was 22 yrs in the military, back in those days we moved every 2/3 yrs, I spent 11 yrs in military moving around the states. I can’t stay to long in one place, illness (back surgery, stroke, cancer 8 months of chemo, cancer in my neck, 7 wks everyday of radiation) has had me tied down here in colorado for past 10 yrs, or I would have moved on many years ago.

I think a boat will be just right for me, traveling from place to place, and continually learning new skills, and no I’m not worried about some illness on board a boat, I’ve wrecked more cars and motorcycles then most, we’re all gonna die at some point, and it’s just another adventure. I’m never going to let the fear of illness stop me from life.

 

[SteveK]

Why aren’t there as many old fiberglass boats as wood boats? Most likely because fiberglass hasn’t been on the marker as long as the old woodies. In another 20 years there will be a huge number of really old glass boats and almost no old woodies. The fiberglass hull can last forever with routine maintenance. Sure there are crappy glass boats out there just as there were crappy woodies. But the glass boats can last indefinitely without extreme maintenance like the one in Peters photos above. What will that cost to repair the rotten structure of that boat? As the song says, rust never sleeps, neither does rot.

Dave, you may have missed the 40+. There were a lot of learning in laying up glass boats pre 1980 and a lot of those hulls have not survived before the builders found the groove. Hull blisters come to mind, delamination.

 

[tiltrider1]

An Alaskan for $39,000. I don’t need to see the boat to know it’s to far gone to be considered anything but a dock queen. Yet, some fools will buy it and dream about cruising to Alaska only to never leave the dock and spend thousands on hope.

Why are the oldest large glass boats only 50 years old? Well, the first large glass boats were not made until 1968, yet most of them are still afloat.

 

[mvweebles]

Dave, you may have missed the 40+. There were a lot of learning in laying up glass boats pre 1980 and a lot of those hulls have not survived before the builders found the groove. Hull blisters come to mind, delamination.

Pretty sure you're referencing the Uniflite blister issues - a couple years of production around 1980 or so that blistered badly. In a way, you are right - many Uniflites didn't survive - the military ones for Vietnam - because while they could withstand small arms' fire, there was a limit to the number of 50mm rounds they could take before they sank in the Mekong Delta. Blisters did not put Uniflite under, lawsuits did. And the Luxury Tax in the late 1970s. For every one fiberglass boat that has sunk because of blisters or delamination there are a million wood boats that have sunk because the hull needed recaulking.

As I sit in rain and wind in Ensenada, I am squarely in Islander 36 country. I can count 5 on either side of my fairway. And several Catalinas and a few Westsails. All 1970s era boats. And then there are ones that I don't recognize or are a one-off. I'd also gues they're 1970's vintage given some have pinched IOR transoms. Many look to be in fair condition. None look like they will meet a demise anytime soon.

Peter

 

[Action]

Charlie I have been following that boat for over a year now and it has consistantly came down from a 80k asking price at the start I. Same condition as shown. Tha t boat had dry rot above the waterline you could see right through, I doubt the bottom will be any better.

And one look at the engine room and engines, pretty much tells about the owners care for there boat.
Love to be able to afford a Alaskan, but that ones a pass for me

WOW that Alaskan is made of planked Phillippine mahogany on yacal ribs, that Steve K says is tuffer than steel.

With no pictures of the engine room what is shown looks pretty good.

Would suck to travel at some distance to get the real story. And I guess COMODave has the frequent flier miles to the story of his ride.

 

[psneeld]

Pretty sure you're referencing the Uniflite blister issues - a couple years of production around 1980 or so that blistered badly. In a way, you are right - many Uniflites didn't survive - the military ones for Vietnam - because while they could withstand small arms' fire, there was a limit to the number of 50mm rounds they could take before they sank in the Mekong Delta. Blisters did not put Uniflite under, lawsuits did. And the Luxury Tax in the late 1970s. For every one fiberglass boat that has sunk because of blisters or delamination there are a million wood boats that have sunk because the hull needed recaulking.

As I sit in rain and wind in Ensenada, I am squarely in Islander 36 country. I can count 5 on either side of my fairway. And several Catalinas and a few Westsails. All 1970s era boats. And then there are ones that I don't recognize or are a one-off. I'd also gues they're 1970's vintage given some have pinched IOR transoms. Many look to be in fair condition. None look like they will meet a demise anytime soon.

Peter

I had always heard it was because Uniflites had issues due to Government specs requested an unproven fire resistant resin.

50mm weapons I have not heard of...could exist but a near 2 inch round makes short work of any small boat....so do 20mm and 50cal. Rounds to sink a boat have a lot more to do with placement than hull material.

 

[mvweebles]

I had always heard it was because Uniflites had issues due to Government specs requested an unproven fire resistant resin.

50mm weapons I have not heard of...could exist but a near 2 inch round makes short work of any small boat....so do 20mm and 50cal. Rounds to sink a boat have a lot more to do with placement than hull material.

....I confess to a bit of hyperbole on the 50mm rounds. Probably guilty of it with the ratio of 1m woodies sunk to every 1-single fiberglass boat sunk due to blisters (though probably not off by more than an order of magnitude).

Yes, the resin changes were supposedly important to their demise. Steve D often references a very old piece of research. In all candor Psneeld - you seem to know more about blisters and hydrolysis than most. Willards have their issues with Blisters (and I also owned a 1975 Uniflite 42 ACMY, a good boat) so I know a bit more than average, but that's it.

Wood boats have their place. But the OP seeks one because they're cheap and he believes he has the skills to keep it going. Given all the other stuff he's contemplating, and adding a few bucks to his budget and consider fiberglass, his potential pool would greatly expand.

Peter

 

[Portage_Bay]

Wood vs fiberglass.

FG if it's a sound hull can be ignored. For years, For decades. It will generally only suffer cosmetic degradation. FG doesn't care as OP travels from PNW to Mexico and back year after year. This of course ignores balsa cored, sandwiched or glass over plywood construction.

Wood, ignore it and it rots away, or the fastners fail. Or the worms crawl in. Wood in that same north south seasonal migration will open and swell each trip. Loosening seam cauling, deck caulking and hastening fastener failure. There's a reason wood boats hold up relatively well in the PNW, the weather is kind to them.

I respect OP's stated skill set. I'm sure he could learn the required wood working skills. The problem is it is harder and harder each passing year to find the materials. And harder still to find a place that will let an owner DIY. Needed will be all manner of wood working tools that won't fit aboard. As well as a large work space out of the weather.

OP should do himself a favor and go for FG. There will be more than enough to do on a $50K boat to get it ready for his adventures.

 

[Comodave]

WOW that Alaskan is made of planked Phillippine mahogany on yacal ribs, that Steve K says is tuffer than steel.

With no pictures of the engine room what is shown looks pretty good.

Would suck to travel at some distance to get the real story. And I guess COMODave has the frequent flier miles to the story of his ride.

Yes, I used to do extensive travel for the CG. At the time I had to pay the $5 TSA fees.

 

[Comodave]

An Alaskan for $39,000. I don’t need to see the boat to know it’s to far gone to be considered anything but a dock queen. Yet, some fools will buy it and dream about cruising to Alaska only to never leave the dock and spend thousands on hope.

Why are the oldest large glass boats only 50 years old? Well, the first large glass boats were not made until 1968, yet most of them are still afloat.

Not thousands but tens of thousands…

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, I spent 10 grand on 2 toilets.