I've got a Sealand Model S vacuum venerator that stopped working. Not sure if it's the vacuum side or the macerator pump side. When the pedal at the toilet bowl is pressed - there is no suction sound, the indicator remains red with the ball closed and with the ball open the space below looks pretty full. I've read about a vacuum relief valve that might be leaking (keeping a vacuum from being generated) but can't seem to find it and I wouldn't expect all the fluid below the ball if that was the case. I'd appreciate any trouble shooting thoughts! Thanks!
Troubleshooting Sealand S Vacuum Generator
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Anniesez
Member
First question - is the pump running. If not, check wires at the pump for power.
The VacuFlush toilet is a three component system--the bowl assembly, the vacuum accumulator tank (not to be confused with a holding tank) and a vacuum pump--the S-Pump. The vacuum tank and vacuum pump may be a combined gizmo called the "vacuum generator," that includes both and works the same way as separate vacuum tank and pump. And that’s ALL there is to the VacuFlush toilet...The holding tank is NOT part of the VacuFlush toilet system.
If you aren't hearing "chunka chunka chunka"--the S-pump running to restore vacuum after a flush, it's not running. That could be due to any of several reasons--no power to it (make sure the breaker is on), worn out vacuum tank switch (that switch has a sensor in it that starts the pump when there's a loss of vacuum, turns it off when vacuum has been achieved), wiring issues.... The Vacuflush owners manual includes a trouble-shooting guide. Doesn't matter what model you have, the VF has changed so little since Mansfield Plumbing introduced it in 1978 (they spun it off to SeaLand Technology in 1984) that same trouble shooting guide works for all years, all models. I'll be glad to send you a copy of of it if you want to send me PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).
--Peggie
If you aren't hearing "chunka chunka chunka"--the S-pump running to restore vacuum after a flush, it's not running. That could be due to any of several reasons--no power to it (make sure the breaker is on), worn out vacuum tank switch (that switch has a sensor in it that starts the pump when there's a loss of vacuum, turns it off when vacuum has been achieved), wiring issues.... The Vacuflush owners manual includes a trouble-shooting guide. Doesn't matter what model you have, the VF has changed so little since Mansfield Plumbing introduced it in 1978 (they spun it off to SeaLand Technology in 1984) that same trouble shooting guide works for all years, all models. I'll be glad to send you a copy of of it if you want to send me PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).
--Peggie
Steve1.0
Senior Member
True, there is, however, a small relay wired to the tank monitor (on some systems) and when the red "full" light is energized so is the relay which opens the circuit to the S-Pump thus prohibiting over flow of the S-tank
There is no S tank ..I'm sure you meant holding tank. That's an optional add-on to Dometic/SeaLand tank level monitors that can be installed with almost any electric toilet.
--Peggie
--Peggie
Steve1.0
Senior Member
Update
You can hear the vacuum pump trying. The light never goes from red to green and when I push the pedal after running it for several minutes there is no whooshing when the ball opens at the toilet. Water remains in the bowl while pumping
You can hear the vacuum pump trying. The light never goes from red to green and when I push the pedal after running it for several minutes there is no whooshing when the ball opens at the toilet. Water remains in the bowl while pumping
sunchaser
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- Insure the line is clear from the toilet to the vacuum pump
- Change out all 4 duckbills, insuring the discharge line to the holding tank is clear and don't reverse install new duckbills
- Pour a small amount of water into bowl and see if pump runs and then shuts off. Then flush.
- If still no vacuum and pump keeps running replace the bellows
- If good vacuum but pump keeps running replace vacuum switch
- As Peggy says, get the book out for guidance. U tube helps too.
The above are all easy jobs. A bit of intuition is needed once you understand the system. Any guests lately or teenagers onboard?
- Change out all 4 duckbills, insuring the discharge line to the holding tank is clear and don't reverse install new duckbills
- Pour a small amount of water into bowl and see if pump runs and then shuts off. Then flush.
- If still no vacuum and pump keeps running replace the bellows
- If good vacuum but pump keeps running replace vacuum switch
- As Peggy says, get the book out for guidance. U tube helps too.
The above are all easy jobs. A bit of intuition is needed once you understand the system. Any guests lately or teenagers onboard?
Last edited:
You can keep throwing parts at it till you finally hit the one...that can get expensive. IMO, you need to talk with an an authorized VacuFlush tech...AER Supply in Seabrook TX is the closest service center to you. 800-767-7606 He'll know what questions to ask you (something no one here seems to think is necessary before giving advice) to accurately diagnose your problem and--if necessary--sell you the part(s) you actually need.
--Peggie
--Peggie
sunchaser
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Peggy
While I agree with you on calling a pro at some point, that is usually quite expensive versus a figure it out yourself step or two. UTube is a blessing for VF heads for those so inclined. Years ago my wife said to me "You need to be smarter than the head".
I may be wrong, but it sounds like the OP needs to zero out his duckbills and be sure both lines are clear. These two activities are VF 101 steps. Unless a boat owner is ready to accept the VF 101 care stuff, cruising with friends and family can become a zero dark thirty panic. The easiest option, install a new simpler head - for far more $$ than buying spare parts and learning VF care and maintenance.
While I agree with you on calling a pro at some point, that is usually quite expensive versus a figure it out yourself step or two. UTube is a blessing for VF heads for those so inclined. Years ago my wife said to me "You need to be smarter than the head".
I may be wrong, but it sounds like the OP needs to zero out his duckbills and be sure both lines are clear. These two activities are VF 101 steps. Unless a boat owner is ready to accept the VF 101 care stuff, cruising with friends and family can become a zero dark thirty panic. The easiest option, install a new simpler head - for far more $$ than buying spare parts and learning VF care and maintenance.
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tiltrider1
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Given the OP’s statements. There is no clog and there is no vacuum. This would point me towards a fouled or warn out duckbill. The first thing I would do is inspect the duckbills for obstruction. You never know what a guest has accidentally flushed.
When you say the pump is trying does that mean it sounds like it is pumping unlabored(at a fast pace) or does it sound labored(slower than normal pace a\nd struggling)?
Have you looked at the pump? Is there any fluid or air shooting out of the center of the pump? The bellows wear out over time and crack this would also cause the described situation.
When you say the pump is trying does that mean it sounds like it is pumping unlabored(at a fast pace) or does it sound labored(slower than normal pace a\nd struggling)?
Have you looked at the pump? Is there any fluid or air shooting out of the center of the pump? The bellows wear out over time and crack this would also cause the described situation.
While I agree with you on calling a pro at some point, that is usually quite expensive versus a figure it out yourself step or two.
I didn't--and wouldn't--suggest he call "a pro." I suggested he call VF tech support, which is no longer available from a single location, but only from regional "authorized service centers." I've never known of a single toilet mfr who charges for tech support.
--Peggie
I didn't--and wouldn't--suggest he call "a pro." I suggested he call VF tech support, which is no longer available from a single location, but only from regional "authorized service centers." I've never known of a single toilet mfr who charges for tech support.
--Peggie
Steve1.0
Senior Member
Have you ever tried to cut sanitation hose? Hell, you'd need a harpoon to poke a hole in it. And when I say poke, I don't mean jam a spike in it, just GENTLY poke it in there. It's worked for me several times. Just sayin'. It can startell (sp) you when the suction pulls the clog thru all of a sudden.:lol:
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I guess the tiny holes in sanitation hose, near the toilet outlet, that we discovered during emergency service calls were caused by toiletmites.
Seriously, not all boats were/are plumbed with the proper sanitation hose. You would not believe some of the hoses my guys found being used for hoses on clients boats.
We even fished out a length of wire that had fallen into the hose beyond reach of the toilet opening.
quinsky
Veteran Member
Same situation happened to me. The pump would run every half hour or so. I replaced the duckbill valves, and the o-ring seal for the bowl and the leak got worse. I called tech support and they advised using a vacuum gauge and start at the pump and work my way to the head. In the year and a half that I've owned the boat I've had to replace the entire bowl and flush mechanism except the circuit board, replace the seals around the ball, and several times adjust the cam so the ball would close all the way. This involved removing the bowl each time. My fun meter was pegged so I replaced the VF with a Raritan Marine Elegance. VF heads are just way too over engineered.
Comodave
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Absolutely. The Vacuflush head that came in our boat is going away this next winter and will be replaced with a Marine Elegance. Ours is leaking now and I am not going to bother trying to fix it, it will be fixed with a ME…
NCheaven
Senior Member
Sadly, that day finally arrived - the vacuum pump every now and then runs for about 8 pumps - daytime, middle of the night, etc....perhaps 3 times a night. So, with the VF running perfectly in every other way, it sounds like a Duckbill problem. Looking at the new/old VF parts left on board by the prior owner, it appears that DBs were last replaced 8 years ago. I'm curious how 8 years falls in most VF owners' experience? Short/long? Do hot summers on the water degrade the rubber, cold winters degrade them, just age/oxidation, number of uses, putting a little Dove liquid soap or olive oil down the last flush of a cruise? Wondering what the wear factors are, or should I simply be happy with 8 years?
Aside from pump cycling 8 or so pumps now and then, and one user error (too much paper), the VF has been flawless for 5 years of my ownership, presume it is OEM at 17 years with DBs replaced at 8 years, gets maximum number of flushes I can expect out of a 14 gallon (tiny!) holding tank.
Aside from pump cycling 8 or so pumps now and then, and one user error (too much paper), the VF has been flawless for 5 years of my ownership, presume it is OEM at 17 years with DBs replaced at 8 years, gets maximum number of flushes I can expect out of a 14 gallon (tiny!) holding tank.
C lectric
Guru
Just a thought.
If you are replacing the Sealand pump as the holding tank/toilet pump consider using it as a dry bilge pump. It should work very well at that although new dickbills should be installed , I imagine.
If you are replacing the Sealand pump as the holding tank/toilet pump consider using it as a dry bilge pump. It should work very well at that although new dickbills should be installed , I imagine.
Comodave
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Took the Vacuflush head out yesterday and it is in the dumpster now.
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Duckbills last between 4 and 12 years. Eight years would be on the long side. I would start with the duckbills as they are due for a change anyway. However, I think you have a vacuum leak some where. I would put a wrench on all the hose clamps just to make sure something hasn’t come loose.
Our Vacuflush is currently "running" (chunka-chunka-chunka) randomly. Well, it usually happens in the middle of the night... Water is retained in the bowl just fine as the seals are 6-mos old, duckbills are only a couple years old, plus a new bellows and pump.
This Summer I had also replaced the old generic outlet hose (which was completely clogged!) with new Sani-Flex hose. Knowing that virtually everything else on the system was less than two years old, I wondered about the hose. Turned out I could tighten the hose clamps at the toilet and the inlet on the vacuum accumulator tank quite a bit. Sure enough, the running ceased!
Then it happened again about a month and a half later around 1:00am. Same thing: tightened the hose clamps and all was well again.
Then it happened again last night. At 2:20am! Turned it off, tightened the clamps in the morning, and all is nominal again.
Looking forward to replacing that unit with a Marine Elegance like the one we put in the forward head and has been performing flawlessly for months now...
This Summer I had also replaced the old generic outlet hose (which was completely clogged!) with new Sani-Flex hose. Knowing that virtually everything else on the system was less than two years old, I wondered about the hose. Turned out I could tighten the hose clamps at the toilet and the inlet on the vacuum accumulator tank quite a bit. Sure enough, the running ceased!
Then it happened again about a month and a half later around 1:00am. Same thing: tightened the hose clamps and all was well again.
Then it happened again last night. At 2:20am! Turned it off, tightened the clamps in the morning, and all is nominal again.
Looking forward to replacing that unit with a Marine Elegance like the one we put in the forward head and has been performing flawlessly for months now...
NCheaven
Senior Member
Wow! Jim Dandy to the rescue! (1950's song....does that date me?). Great replies, and now I have a sense for a clear staging of potential fixes....a screwdriver and a few twists is where I'll start, but will order replacement duckbills first, since installing them is surely coming soon if not now. Thanks for all the replies, and preferences have been noted if the VF on my boat is terminal......
Thanks!
NCheaven
Thanks!
NCheaven
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