Robert Beebe's original Passagemaker Refit

[PM]

It is good to see your project is progressing.

I must confess, I looked at your "gofundme" page and did not donate. I just did not get the "warm, fuzzy" feeling about it. Sorry.

pete

 

[slowgoesit]

That's AWESOME! She looks great. Looking forward to seeing more pics. I wasn't familiar with Beebe's designs/history until we bought our boat. Looking forward to seeing more pics!

 

[backinblue]

It is good to see your project is progressing.

I must confess, I looked at your "gofundme" page and did not donate. I just did not get the "warm, fuzzy" feeling about it. Sorry.

pete

I'm not a social media person at all, no personal accounts. But I don't really understand the whole gofundme thing. I would donate money to someone in need because of illness or some unforseen tragety, but not to help someone pay their boat bills. Just because somone wants to take on such a project, why should the rest of the world feel any urge to send them money? Especially since there is really no benefit to anyone other than the owners. It's not like they are building a playground for children in a poor neighborhood. Maybe I'm missing something and open to better understanding if I am.

 

[hollywood8118]

I'm not a social media person at all, no personal accounts. But I don't really understand the whole gofundme thing. I would donate money to someone in need because of illness or some unforseen tragety, but not to help someone pay their boat bills. Just because somone wants to take on such a project, why should the rest of the world feel any urge to send them money? Especially since there is really no benefit to anyone other than the owners. It's not like they are building a playground for children in a poor neighborhood. Maybe I'm missing something and open to better understanding if I am.

Very well said.
Hollywood

 

[ChristineKling]

I'm not a social media person at all, no personal accounts. But I don't really understand the whole gofundme thing. I would donate money to someone in need because of illness or some unforseen tragety, but not to help someone pay their boat bills. Just because somone wants to take on such a project, why should the rest of the world feel any urge to send them money? Especially since there is really no benefit to anyone other than the owners. It's not like they are building a playground for children in a poor neighborhood. Maybe I'm missing something and open to better understanding if I am.

You are missing something. How are museums funded? Mostly by donations. Are you ever going to be able to use any of the things in that museum? No. But you can see them. You can know that those historical things are being preserved for posterity, and for many of us, that is enough. Many historical sailboats are rebuilt through donations.

You probably aren't someone who donates to things like museums or who would act a a patron for an artist who cannot afford to quit his day job and thus cannot complete his art. There's nothing wrong with not being a patron of history or the arts. Maybe historical preservation isn't your thing. But it is wrong to ding people who do choose to donate money to such causes or those who are preserving history with the help of other like-minded souls. These people weren't just any folk asking for trawler forum members to help them pay for their leisure boat. They were asking for help in preserving the boat that started the whole passage maker way of life. Reading this old thread made me cringe at the way they were treated by some members here. Good for them that they had thick skins and kept at it and the boat is now out there cruising.

 

[mvweebles]

You are missing something. How are museums funded? Mostly by donations. Are you ever going to be able to use any of the things in that museum? No. But you can see them. You can know that those historical things are being preserved for posterity, and for many of us, that is enough. Many historical sailboats are rebuilt through donations.

You probably aren't someone who donates to things like museums or who would act a a patron for an artist who cannot afford to quit his day job and thus cannot complete his art. There's nothing wrong with not being a patron of history or the arts. Maybe historical preservation isn't your thing. But it is wrong to ding people who do choose to donate money to such causes or those who are preserving history with the help of other like-minded souls. These people weren't just any folk asking for trawler forum members to help them pay for their leisure boat. They were asking for help in preserving the boat that started the whole passage maker way of life. Reading this old thread made me cringe at the way they were treated by some members here. Good for them that they had thick skins and kept at it and the boat is now out there cruising.

Thank you for context. I am pretty cynical about current crop of YouTube/Patreon folks so its easy to sweep baby with bathwater and certainly understand BackInBlue's post. But something didn't feel right about criticising the GoFundMe page as many did. Christine, I think you captured it well - Passagemaker is not just a boat, it's a seed crystal, a root-stock for our collective passion and hobby. We referece and recommend Voyaging Under Power frequently. While it's a personal project for the current owners, with luck, the boat will long survive them. In short, funding the boat, not the owners (who have shown tremendous determination).

BTW - I was unable to donate via the GoFundMe page. Not sure if it was due to CAD or if the page is closed.

Thanks for taking the time to post Christine.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

I get the historical significance and all, but it's still a boat that the owners will use for their personal enjoyment. A museum is open to the public and benefits society. Will the owners allow anyone public access and usage of their boat when they are finished so we can all enjoy it? I'm restoring a 60's muscle car in my garage. Care to send me money to help restore this piece of automotive history?

I really do admire this undertaking and wish them the best. I do donate to causes and charities that I believe in. I just have a hard time understanding public funding of a personal project. What's the end result? They will have a nice boat to live on and cruise then someday sell. When I think about all the places and causes that I could donate to, this one just doesn't rise to the top for me. Something like Mercy Ships would be more likely to be a boating cause that I support.

 

[Hippocampus]

I do do support marine museums. Give to Herreshoff in Bristol RI and am a member. Also have given money to Mystic.

That’s an entirely different thing than this project. For museums
1. It’s open to the public.
2. It’s a non profit and contributions are tax deductible.
3. I know funds are spent on marine preservation and education and not directed elsewhere.

I’m a big fan of Herreshoff and Fife. I would love to restore any of ether’s designs. I would no more expect anyone else to fund such a project for my own exclusive enjoyment than ask them to buy a concert ticket for me.

I totally understand why people are delighted that this project was undertaken but feel no obligation to fund it. This isn’t anywhere near restorations like Bluenose where private contributions were appropriate as well as public.

Perhaps if I was a 1%er I’d feel differently. But so many historic boats have been loss that you can feel equally passionate about and are equally or even more deserving. With go fund me the recipient is under no obligation to the donor. In this instance it sounds like it is only a source of enrichment to do something I’d very much like to do myself but don’t have the funds. Perhaps if they said after their restoration and use they legally commit to donate the vessel to a maritime museum I’d feel differently.

 

[mvweebles]

Personally, my litmus test is a bit more basic. If I were to bump into these folks at a bar, would I buy them a round? But I've also picked up coffee for a fireman or cop in line behind me. Maybe I'm a rube but an easy way to say thanks for the effort from which I benefit a wee bit. Tax deductibility makes no difference.

Nothing wrong with how others look at this, but I feel differently.

Peter

 

[twistedtree]

I'm not a social media person at all, no personal accounts. But I don't really understand the whole gofundme thing. I would donate money to someone in need because of illness or some unforseen tragety, but not to help someone pay their boat bills. Just because somone wants to take on such a project, why should the rest of the world feel any urge to send them money? Especially since there is really no benefit to anyone other than the owners. It's not like they are building a playground for children in a poor neighborhood. Maybe I'm missing something and open to better understanding if I am.

I think it's a fine line. I watch a couple of YouTube channels of people restoring/rebuilding boats, and am more than happy to support them through YouTube. Their videos are very well done, each in it's own unique way, and in several cases the craftsmanship and skills are just astounding. There is way more value in what they produce vs the trash on broadcast TV, and I think it's a great arrangement where they can fund the projects by documenting it.


In the case of Passagemaker, I could see people wanting to help preserve an iconic boat. It's not much different than fund raising to restore any other classic or historic vessel.


Then of course there is all the trash on YouTube as well, but you only watch what you want.



But all that said, I haven't personally contributed to any gofundme or Patreon kitty, though there are one or two where I have considered donating. For now I just subscribe to the videos

 

[Hippocampus]

Peter agree with you. I’ve given free parts, labor, food, transportation, food, advice, let them sleep on my boat to fellow cruisers in a jam. (Also behave that way on land) . Have both firemen and police as friends and family and fully support thanking them for their service. It just the way to behave. Tax deductions have nothing to do with being a good person. But view this as different. No distress, impersonal, unidirectional. Further agree with TT. If I’m getting enjoyment from watching the restoration either in person or on the net it’s reasonable I pay something for my enjoyment. Also in that instance often learn something and a service has been done.

 

[twistedtree]

Peter agree with you. I’ve given free parts, labor, food, transportation, food, advice, let them sleep on my boat to fellow cruisers in a jam. (Also behave that way on land) . It just the way to behave. Tax deductions have nothing to do with being a good person. But view this as different. No distress, impersonal, unidirectional.

Unidirectional. I think that's the key in this instance. I would "pay" in some way or another to see the whole restoration, well documented, and demonstrating great skill and craftsmanship. But this is all invisible to me, since I gather it's all taking place on facebook. No problem if that's their chosen platform, but not one I'll be participating in or funding directly or indirectly.

 

[dannc]

I get the historical significance and all, but it's still a boat that the owners will use for their personal enjoyment. A museum is open to the public and benefits society. Will the owners allow anyone public access and usage of their boat when they are finished so we can all enjoy it? I'm restoring a 60's muscle car in my garage. Care to send me money to help restore this piece of automotive history?

I really do admire this undertaking and wish them the best. I do donate to causes and charities that I believe in. I just have a hard time understanding public funding of a personal project. What's the end result? They will have a nice boat to live on and cruise then someday sell. When I think about all the places and causes that I could donate to, this one just doesn't rise to the top for me. Something like Mercy Ships would be more likely to be a boating cause that I support.

People donate money to these channels because they want to support the build and the videos are entertaining. Paying for these channels seems a much better use of money than spending hard earned money on cable or satellite TV. I really don't understand why people pay a quite a bit of money to go see a professional sports team play but they obviously find it entertaining and worth their money.

If you spend the time, money and effort it takes to make videos of your car restoration, I think people will pay you if your video provides value for them and is entertaining.

We do not pay for these videos, but we have come close a few times to support the channel. One thing that has stopped us that some channels wanted too much money. Or to put it another way, the channel had value to us, but it was not worth what they were asking.

We got rid of paid TV years ago and we talked for years about canceling before we finally cut the cord. Should have done it as soon as we thought about cutting the cord because paid TV is too danged expensive. It is even more expensive given there are hundreds of channels with nothing worth watching. Over the air TV has dozens of channels but we only watch one to three channels a night for 30-120 minutes, depending on what is on. The sad thing is, we are almost always are watching reruns. If we had to pay for over the air TV, we would not be spending the money.

We don't pay for YouTube either but there are FAR more valuable videos on YouTube than over the air TV AND paid TV. We just pay by watching the commercials. Some of which are entertaining.

It is about entertaining. If it is entertaining, people will pay.

It really is no different than a person earning money as a ball player by entertaining people and then builds a boat vs someone who entertains people with videos about them building a boat. Well, I would rather pay to watching someone build a boat than someone play a ball game. In the end, they both get a boat. Hopefully. :lol:

Later,
Dan