Ray McCormack Sunseeker 54 delivery to Hawaii currently underway

[marcs]

Ray said that they installed "new flow meters", which I found interesting. If taken literally would mean they aren't using the ECU's data. I believe the image below is a Facebook post from him.

I'd assume that the flow meters are his main way of tracking. You could try to double check based on knowing how much was in the barrel you just emptied. Hopefully someone onboard is doing so.

You don't just have to worry about the smell of spilled diesel, but that stuff can be slick and I can't imagine the Sunseeker has the best handholds at sea.

 

[magna 6882]

This will be an interesting thread to follow. I hope those who know will keep us updated. What does one do if they run out of fuel? Do you call the coast guard and does the radio even work that far out to sea?

 

[socalrider]

How would insurance work for a trip like this? Who in their right mind would insure a captain like that on a delivery like this? And what owner would allow the trip to be made without insurance?

 

[CharlieO.]

If you mean delivery of Boat Bum Gal, Ray did it for expenses. Their accounting of the arrangements differ. According to Ray, owner reached out to him and asked if he'd be available for no charge. According to the owner, she had followed Ray via Facebook for a while and he reached out to her with the proposition when she posted she was getting ready for the Baja Ha Ha. I guess he thought it would be a good story. She has consistently had the ring of truth to me so I tend to believe her, but makes no difference what I believe.

Latitude 38 magazine, sponsor of the Baja Ha Ha, had a long article on this months issue, including a reprint of Rays Facebook post describing his actions and description of BBG, essentially describing her as a near derelict boat which the owner vehemently denies.

I do hope the trip to Hawaii goes well. But on my mind the job of a delivery skipper is to reduce risk to an acceptable level. Not sure that's possible with this boat and that distance. To the extent risk can be minimized, not sure this skipper is the right person for the job.

Peter

Peter, my comment was referring to the Sunseeker delivery.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, my comment was referring to the Sunseeker delivery.

I'm talking Sunseeker too. It's a 60,000 lb go-fast yacht with well over 1000 hp of propulsion (perhaps over 2000 hp depending on which model it is). For it to make Hawaii, it must burn less than 5 GPH on average including generator time. And there are other preparations needed to ready a glorified day boat into an ocean crosser.

The best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior. 4-weeks ago, Ray was skipper on Boat Bum Gal headed 800 nms down the Pacific Ocean. For prep, he showed-up 6-hours before departure and plotted an incredibly irresponsible course that resulted in the loss of the boat. Further, he states the boat had problems (which owner disputes) and yet he stuck with his ridiculous 10-meter depth course at 1am. These were not mistakes, these were blatent errors in judgement. The only error he admits to is he should not have left the dock in San Diego. The guy has a learning disability.

I ask you: What are the chances that the skipper who made the decisions that led to total loss of Boat Bum Gal is the right guy for an infinitely more complex and consequential delivery of the Sunseeker? I hope all goes well. But just as he relied on luck to miss rocks at Turtle Bay, too much of the Sunseeker delivery relies on luck for my tastes. Chances are the boat will make it, likely the worse for wear, but it will be luck, not Ray's experience and knowledge.

I'll push-back hard on the notion that at least he's out there "Doing It" instead of sitting on a couch like many TFers (for the record, I'm on my settee in Mazatlan). Boating world would be a better place if Ray spent more time on a couch and less time doing it. BBG would be afloat in La Paz right now.

Peter

 

[CharlieO.]

I hired a captain for the first move with our boat. I also learned from my experience to ask more questions and to check references. We had a fine trip (it was only 35 mile hire) with no issues but swapping sea stories while underway he made the comment that I probably have more experience than him.

 

[twistedtree]

I would have two other concerns with the fuel bladders, beyond those that Sam mentioned. First is that from reports of people using them, they try as hard as they possible can to get out of whatever restraints you put them under. Even if you can reasonably secure them when they are full, if you partially empty them, the restraints become loose and it starts trying to get away again.


Also, a partially filled bladder now contains sloshing fuel which can be disastrous to stability. Rigid fuel tanks have baffles to address this, but bladders don't.



The boat is reported to have a 500 gal fuel tank. Normally one fulls a bladder full at the onset of a trip, runs until there is room in the main tanks for the contents of the bladder, then transfers the entirety of the bladder all at once, when in good conditions. That creates only a small (hopefully) window of time when you have stability and escape issues. The bladder is usually needed just for reserve fuel, so this transfer is happening within the first days or week of the trip while you are still within the original forecast window, so should have been able to plan for acceptable weather to do the transfer.


This boat has a 500 gal main tank, and 1500 gal of bladder fuel. I don't know the size of the individual bladders, how much one bladder is helping to secure other bladders in place, but this all sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. He is almost certainly going to have to transfer fuel in bad conditions, probably very bad conditions from the looks of it. The resulting stability issues are going to make a bad situation a lot worse.


I really fear for these guys. I give them much lower probability than Sam of arriving with the boat, under it's own power. I think the risk of a broach, down flooding, and disabling of the boat, given the type of boat, the conditions and the stability issues because of the fuel, make it very likely that they require a rescue at sea. Not to mention the likelihood of picking up a net which seems to happen to every boat I know that crosses the Pacific. And unfortunately a distinct possibility that they are just swallowed up and never seen or heard from again.


All this reminds me of the Titanic viewing submarine and the guy behind it who confused being reckless with being an "innovator".

 

[mvweebles]

How would insurance work for a trip like this? Who in their right mind would insure a captain like that on a delivery like this? And what owner would allow the trip to be made without insurance?

Good question. And I still wonder why delivery vs shipping.

Sunseeker is a pretty large and reputable builder of go-fast motoryachts for the Med/Miami set. I have to admit, compared to my Willard 36, Sunseeker has better space to showcase bikini-clad/silicon augmented arm-candy.

I would not be surprised if bladder-enable deliveries happen from time to time so perhaps Sunseeker has made design provisions. I know Horizon Yachts, a competing builder, have yachts delivered cross-ocean. Leopard PowerCats do as well from South Africa.

However, California to Hawaii is the longest leg of a circumnavigation so not sure they would have contemplated this type of delivery. The delivery sounds nuts but I do leave open the possibility the boat can be adapted for such a trek. But do I think this particular skipper is the right guy? Hell no!!! Years ago, Capt John Rains (and wife Capt Pat Rains) used to do commercial and large vessel deliveries, some quite difficult. If it were them, I'd be asking different questions as their reputation was impecable. I'd want to know what preparations were needed. Best I could tell, they made it look easy because they prepared.

Peter

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
My though is that IF he does get himself AND the boat to Hawaii it will simply inflate his ego and his bragging rights. NOT a plus for the boating community or responsible delivery captains.

 

[rslifkin]

For the bladder fuel, from what I've seen posted, they've got a big bladder in the dinghy garage, and more bladders in the cabin somewhere.

 

[psneeld]

I haven't seen an answer to my question of does this delivery captain have a delivery history?

I asked to see if his reputation so far here is swirling around only the delivery to Mexico?

I would try and look it up myself, but so far I don't have enough info to even search.

 

[mvweebles]

I haven't seen an answer to my question of does this delivery captain have a delivery history?

I asked to see if his reputation so far here is swirling around only the delivery to Mexico?

I would try and look it up myself, but so far I don't have enough info to even search.

Here's a blurb from his resume from self-posted experience HERE.

I am a mariner at heart, with over 40 years of experience onvarying waters in different vessels. Over 42,000 natucial miles with over 2300 days on the water. From the caribbean, to south america, hawaii, and up and won the west coast. Mymarine experience log keeps track of the number of days miles and otherinformation in fishing, sailing, and power boating. In vessels up to 150 feet. My consulting, work experience, and career/sailingpaths have allowed me to participate in many marine events, and work in manydifferent types of marine environments. My ultimate goal is become a very knowledgeable mariner with varyingexperiences in sailboat racing, coaching/instruction, deliveries, chartering,& managing vessels.

There have many online assertions that Boat Bum Gal was not the first boat lost under his leadership, however nothing concrete beyond rumor.

 

[Larry M]

He’s some good reading on another delivery. It starts at post 88.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/boat-bum-gal-sinks-on-first-baha-ha-ha-leg.244369/page-5

 

[psneeld]

He’s some good reading on another delivery. It starts at post 88.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/threads/boat-bum-gal-sinks-on-first-baha-ha-ha-leg.244369/page-5

Thanks Larry but got lost in the" can't get there" or myriad of links when I tried your links (might be my crappy search feature on my computer).

I did wind up with many different paths to a variety of info while searching and there seems to be a split decision on the guy.

I am still looking for a couple more smoking guns of his incompetence if he truly has 40 years of experience as related in one of his biographies working for some company. The comment on not doing due diligence on the guy I could argue with if you just do a quick search of his quals and hiring background.

Heck I see he's an author and I know how TFers love published author opinions......

 

[mvweebles]

Thanks Larry but got lost in the" can't get there" or myriad of links when I tried your links (might be my crappy search feature on my computer).

I did wind up with many different paths to a variety of info while searching and there seems to be a split decision on the guy.

I am still looking for a couple more smoking guns of his incompetence if he truly has 40 years of experience as related in one of his biographies working for some company. The comment on not doing due diligence on the guy I could argue with if you just do a quick search of his quals and hiring background.

Heck I see he's an author and I know how TFers love publish author opinions......

Well, this is gonna be a long post due to cut/paste of the SA account from a crew on a Hawaii to PNW delivery of a sailboat. WARNING - there are F-Bombs in this cut/paste. As someone noted, Sailing Anarchy is a bit 'uniltered.'

Best I can tell, Ray sued the owner for $6383 (CAN) for fees but lost. Apparently, his claim is the boat was in bad shape to begin with (gee....didn't he claim that for Boat Bum Gal too? Crew "Sereh" states the boat was in impeccable condition when it left, not so much on arrival to Neah Bay ) and therefore left it in Neah Bay instead of Victoria BC. His takeaway is he needs a better contract and he needs to collect 100% of his fees upfront.



The crew - Sereh, the lone female on the 4-person crew, posted a very long description which I have pasted in full. Similar to Sandra Barnes (BBG's owner), her understanding or Ray's credentials were by reputation and not direct knowledge. An important point, Ray apparently 'fired' Sereh as crew 5-days before getting to Neah Bay so she's a bit pissed-off. I will say she states Ray cut the corner between Tatoosh and the mainland which is a totally unnecessary risk, especially coming from sea vs from the south. This too sounds similar to BBG.

As a final comment, Ray seems to have escaped widespread negative reviews......until now. I can tell you from personal experience with my Ensenada hack-team that, for whatever reason, people are really hesitant to write super-negative reviews. I know of three other boats where Mario/Niza really screwed-up. None were willing to add their comments publicly despite a similar feeling of being ripped-off. I cannot explain that hesistancy - I think it irresponsible to not inform fellow consumers. But so be it.

Here is the very long description from Sereh, crew on Ray McCormack's delivery of a sailboat from Hawaii to Neah Bay (Post #93 HERE)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi folks.

I’m Sarah, I did the delivery on New Haven home from Hawaii to Neah Bay with Ray last November, as noted in the facebook screen shot above. Due to the law suit we had going (resolved in our favour in July 2023) we chose to remain silent on the details of that trip, but now seems like an appropriate time to share for the first time publicly. Many of you on here know me in person. In short, I’ve sailed for about 35 years, cruised on my family’s boat as a kid, raced dinghies as a teen, bought my first of five boats about 15 years ago, have been an avid keelboat racer for about the same time. I have completed two VanIsle 360s, multiple other long overnight races, extended cruising and liveaboard, am a judge with Sail Canada and currently work as a marine electrician/electronics tech. I signed on with Ray as I was assured by other serious racers he was a competent captain, and a great way to build ocean miles. Turns out they had never met him, and had only seen his reputation from his social media, which many seem to fall for, including me.

It’s a very long story that does not paint Ray, or indeed me, in a good light. I kept very detailed notes during the prep and on the delivery. I'm in the middle of a long write up, but it's pages long. I'll try to get to it tonight.

Crew: Ray, Mark, first mate, me, Bob, green sailor, Tim, owner, present for prep but not delivery

In “short”, due to Ray’s negligence and refusal to be proactive, some “highlights”:

-near loss of the rig due to inversion, resulting from ray’s negligence in fouling the storm jib halyard, leading to his disabling the inner forestay and refusal to use the baby stay leading to severe mast pumping and occasional inversion (video evidence of severe mast pumping from inside, worse from outside). Possible solutions were suggested and rejected. We ended up with the storm jib and forestay lashed to the front of the mast, preventing dousing the main properly, and was left like that for multiple days (approximately 8?) and unable to use the inner forestay during that time.

- due to sailing over-canvassed to meet his schedule and an undisclosed at departure interview in Pt. Townsend, we regularly dipped the prevented out boom (probably close to 100 times over the 20 day delivery), shock loading the rig, causing the mast shims to fall out, further exacerbating rig pumping.

-took us through the passage between Tatoosh Island and the Olympic Peninsula for no good reason. It would have been an extra 2nm ish to go around after doing some 2200nm. Others have posted my track through there, taken on my phone. It was dark (8ish pm), blowing about 20 kts outside, pissing sideways rain with no visibility, low water when rocks are awash, decent westerly swell. Navionics explicitly does not recommend this route.

-no functional sea trial was conducted to assess charging,either alternator or solar (which did not work in the end) sail setup, engine etc. We went out for two races, which meant some hour total of engine run time

-lost the engine minutes after making it through the pass. It was a simple fuel filter issue in the end, but Ray and Mark insisted it was the lift pump. We did not know this at the time, but neither were able to resolve the issue. Despite being still a (mostly) functional sailboat, crewed by three “capable” sailors, Ray refused to deploy the headsail (main was up, I was the only one on deck, but were unable to make progress upwind under that sail alone), and we drifted into the southbound, and then the northbound shipping channel. He issued a securite call to notify traffic, and coast guard deployed their cutter from Neah Bay to come tow us in, apparently without us asking. We had drifted back out into the big swell at that point. When they arrived after a few hours of drifting and failed repairs, after a few minutes they refused to speak to Ray as he was blathering effective nonsense at this point “we sailed from hawaii” on repeat, and would only speak to me for logistics. It was me who doused the main, and got the boat secured under the USCG guidance, and eventually secured to the dock in Neah Bay. The coast guard made mention of certain “frequent flyers” who had to be towed in to Neah Bay when I went to their station the following day.

-disregard for weather forecasts, including sailing directly towards ~960 mb lows. Concerned questions from our shore side weather router, and folks at home watching our track wondering where we were going while beating upwind towards japan in 35 kts

-sexual assault by the first mate on the first night in Hawaii, who turned out to be a felon and would not have been allowed into Canada even if the vessel had made it there. I will leave out the details here, but it was unwanted touch, he was told no, and the 4th crew had to tell him to stop touching me. Ray would have been aware of this the following morning as he would have overheard a loud conversation about consent between me and Mark. He later blamed me for not coming to him about this assault, instead of the owner.

- not depowering early (or at all) in squalls, putting crew (me and first mate) on the bow during a squall where we saw 47 kts, reefing poorly when he did and damaging the sail

-most of the delivery was sailed with a prevented out main, and poled out jib with the boat under autopilot. The autopilot was often alarming on rudder angle, and the boat was what I would call “out of control” careening down waves, and no ability for the crew to actually steer, as we were restricted with such a narrow angle range. When not in use as a whisker pole, the spin pole was left unsecured smashing on the bow and causing wear marks and being a hazard to the crew on the bow. We did have a Hydrovane installed, which Ray did not know how to operate, and refused to read the manual to set the vane for the conditions. In the 47 kts squall i was on the bow, I suspect the vane was not disengaged, as when we had a very aggressive roll (bob was standing vertically on the cockpit edges, I was fully underwater as the bow submarined, and though I didn’t see the spreaders hit the water, it was damn close) the rudder portion of the hydrovane snapped off. If we had not been so over canvassed going into such strong squalls (which we could see coming in the daylight) it likely (obviously, supposition) would not have snapped off.

-neither ray nor Mark wore a PFD or tether at all for the entire trip, until we were rescued by the coast Guard. There was no safety briefing at all, despite Ray talking a big talk at the bar about “safety first, i never send my crew forward” etc. I had to teach and explain all basic safety techniques and equipment to the green crew.

-on about day 6, the raw water pump on the engine started making squealing sounds. My personal guess is because we were regularly running the engine at near max RPM for both charging, and for propulsion when boat speed dropped below 6kts. Both Mark and Ray thought it was the alternator belt, despite that not being where the squealing was coming from. Ray immediately blamed Tim for putting too large of an alternator (110 amp iirc on a yanmar 40 ish hp engine, all impeccably installed and maintained. I work as a marine electrician so I’m fairly familiar with boat electrical systems). It was not the alternator at all. I spoke with the owner, who discussed solutions with his mechanic on how to keep the pump running. Ray decided we would push through, on minimal power. That night I came up on shift to see that we had been running dark all night. AIS, radar, chartplotter off. Those are understandable, but we had even turned off nav lights, yet ray kept the fridge running.

-inappropriate use of a preventer setup, including lashed to the beam not the bow, and no way to release quickly. I set up a proper preventer system later but there was a crash gybe when Mark took the helm and the main sheet block snapped off the traveler car. Ray did manage to jerry rig a dyneema strop repair.

- denied access to iridium go, despite unlimited texting available. Updates to the owner and my family were not happening, and the owner had requested that me personally keep him informed twice a day of. On about day six he said he would not turn it back on until we reached the Juan de Fuca as "he knew exactly what the weather was going to do" note this is November in the north Pacific. He also would read and reply to private messages with my family (iridium go messages are viewable to all who use the app, but common courtesy means you don’t read private messages) He kept the iridium go in his cabin. People were getting very concerned with radio silence and strange course choices

- near the end of the trip, he and his first mate filled his vaunted air pot, and the first mate gleefully announced to me and the 4th crew member that we were out of water. We were told that we would not be running the water maker again, despite it working well and having plenty of power. This lasted for about a day and a half, not thinking we would have any further water, and eking out what little water we could from the manual pump. Around the same time Ray (or Mark) intentionally closed the valve for the overboard holding tank pump out (discovered later). I was the only one who knew how to operate the system, and was unsure why it wasn’t working as it had the three or four times I had previously pumped out. He then forbade me from continuing to troubleshoot why the head wasn’t pumping out, and announced (gleefully) that we would then share a poop bucket, and that indeed, he had been using the **** bucket the entire time. At the same time he removed *both* privacy curtains into the head, forcing me to use the facilities in full view of the main cabin, ray’s cabin, and Mark’s bunk, the man who had previously sexually assaulted me. Facing restricted water, communications and sabotaged head facilities was starting to feel like psychological abuse (on top of the actual mockery both Ray and Mark put on both Bob and me)

-boat was abandoned, left unplugged, unlocked, tied to the dock with the jib sheets still tied to the jib, a jerry can used as a fender, sails uncovered, ****ery from the tangled forestay/storm jib still lashed to the mast, a large gouge in the hull from after the coast guard dropped us off, rotting food, dirty underwear aboard and the best part, Ray’s feces still on the side deck. Bob and I left from Neah Bay and Ray abandoned the boat after that. Mark had a felony on his record and was not able to enter canada.

- excessive expenses charged to the owner with no receipts provided

-slow murder of an albatross by Ray

Please note. Ray and I, though we started on a good foot, did not end well. He did choose to fire me, which I still don’t know what that means 5 days from landfall. (I had continued to sail the course Mark had left me with heading towards California on about day 15, after confirming with him that that was what he wanted. He said Ray would come up at dawn and gybe the boat. This did not happen, and ray seriously lost his temper at me for sailing in the wrong direction for a few hours.) I believe the real reason to be that I was in communication with the owner in regards to the dangerous rig and potential solutions to it, and that I challenged him on basic safety concerns. I continued to stand night watches, and the occasional time during the day, and the bulk of the interaction with the coast guard. Ray did not speak to me at all for a few days.

Overall, it was a continued pattern of exceptionally poor seamanship, ego and hubris, consistently blaming the boat, the owner, me or anything he could think of, uncontrolled anger and dangerous decisions. Without exaggeration, I was seriously concerned for my life on numerous occasions, from either the boat failing, unsafe decisions by Ray, or just Ray himself. Bob and I decided about midway through that neither of us would confront Ray alone, as we were both not confident he did not mean us harm. There is so much more to the story. Apologies on the lack of coherent, chronological storytelling. I’m at work, and will be writing a longer write up. Please feel free to ask any questions, including on the court case (BC Small claims court) which I didn’t even get into here as it was mostly financial issues, my background or any details. The owner and the 4th crew member, Bob are willing to corroborate many details of the story. I am trying to be factual careful here, to only report what I observed, but there is obviously some supposition here.

I seriously questioned leaving with ray while I was still in Hawaii. In the end, after discussions with the owner, a strong confidence in the vessel herself, and still having faith at that point that Ray was a competent captain I decided it was just a personality conflict that I could suck up. I seriously regret this decision in retrospect.

I will be available around 6 PDT this evening if folks have questions. Apologies, I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet.

Edit: I want it to be known that New Haven was in *impeccable* shape when we left Hawaii. The y valve for the head was a bit fussy and it was discovered en route the solar wasn't working right. She was a late 80s model, but spotless, beautifully updated and maintained. Sitting in the tropics for 4 months was having an impact, but I had *absolutely no* safety concerns leaving on her.

 

[psneeld]

Just another "opinion/one side of the story" unfortunately.

Any documented "damage/losses/injuries" that have been investigated?

Look.... I am not sticking up for the guy, just interested.... many "accidents/incidents" reviewed on TF have been MAJOR jumps to conclusions.... so just interested in as bad as this guy is being made out to be...just what were his major flawed decisions (with both sides... because what is dangerous to one boater is a wise decision to another...especially when experience gaps are wide).

As far as deliveries go, I had quite a few of "trashed" vessels awaiting me that were in "great shape". Like the one that couldn't make it 200 feet to the fuel dock because both impellers with nubs before starting out. The boat was supposedly running but people in the marina said the boat had been on the hard for 2 years.

An boaters call fishermen natural liars......

 

[mvweebles]

Investigated by whom? NTSB for a boat delivery?

I'm normally pretty skeptical of armchair analysis of delivery skipper incidents, but when I read McCormack's own account, it was a slam-dunk. Seriously - following the 10-meter line???? With what he described as a poor-conditoned boat with A/P issues? ANd then read the account from "Sereh" that has several remarkably similar issues to BBG - cutting corner at Tatoosh; claiming boat was in poor condition, etc.

Sure, give him the benefit of the doubt and not trash him so he can fly under radar. But you can't do that and then chide clients for inability to do due diligence.

Peter

 

[lwarden]

If you read through the 100 pages of the Boat Bum Gal sinking on SA you will get all the information you need to determine the recklessness of this guy. There are certainly a segment of delivery skippers who take "at risk" boat deliveries on. They are literally the bottom feeders of the profession. Those of you who did deliveries or were in the business know who I'm talking about. These are boats which are poorly maintained, owners who are irresponsible for wanting to attempt the crossing on a boat not designed for the crossing, or at an inappropriate time of year, etc. Ray would be one of these types of delivery skippers. These guys usually find a way to get the boat from A to B, but it ain't pretty, and the boats take a beating. My guess it he will make it, but the boat will be trashed.

 

[Gdavid]

If you read through the 100 pages of the Boat Bum Gal sinking on SA you will get all the information you need to determine the recklessness of this guy. There are certainly a segment of delivery skippers who take "at risk" boat deliveries on. They are literally the bottom feeders of the profession. Those of you who did deliveries or were in the business know who I'm talking about. These are boats which are poorly maintained, owners who are irresponsible for wanting to attempt the crossing on a boat not designed for the crossing, or at an inappropriate time of year, etc. Ray would be one of these types of delivery skippers. These guys usually find a way to get the boat from A to B, but it ain't pretty, and the boats take a beating. My guess it he will make it, but the boat will be trashed.

I agree 100%

Determining the condition of the vessel to be delivered has to be among the most challenging and also most critical to success. If a delivery captain is going to claim that the boat was in disrepair but choose to proceed with the trip, that captain showed poor judgement in proceeding with the trip. I don't need to know whether the delivery captain was right or wrong about the condition of the vessel, the fact that the "captain" proceeded with the journey is a mark against his competence.

 

[lwarden]

Investigated by whom? NTSB for a boat delivery?

I'm normally pretty skeptical of armchair analysis of delivery skipper incidents, but when I read McCormack's own account, it was a slam-dunk. Seriously - following the 10-meter line???? With what he described as a poor-conditoned boat with A/P issues? ANd then read the account from "Sereh" that has several remarkably similar issues to BBG - cutting corner at Tatoosh; claiming boat was in poor condition, etc.

Sure, give him the benefit of the doubt and not trash him so he can fly under radar. But you can't do that and then chide clients for inability to do due diligence.

Peter

View attachment 144282

The other thing I don't get is if you have a shaky reputation why get all over social media and post every single step you take?

On the topic of these low-end delivery skippers; I witnessed this just a few weeks ago on my dock. The owner of a Hunter 36 wanted to move his boat to HI in November. Now, this boat is nothing special in terms of condition, just an averagely maintained coastal cruiser. I am not a fan of Hunter sailboats as I consider them the bottom tier of sailboat manufactures but that's beside the point. So the owner finds a skipper who is willing to do the trip and the guy shows up, straps a bunch of diesel jugs to the railings and waits for a weather window. He has a girl with him who seems inexperienced and looks more like she had nothing better to do so that's his crew. One afternoon I'm on my boat with a dock neighbor chatting and this Hunter comes drifting into my boat with said captain and "crew". Captain says the engine just quit as they were backing out to do a little trial. "Crew" clearly has no idea about boating whatsoever, but we managed to get them back into their slip without incident.

Once back at the slip the captain thanked me and my friend for helping out and made a comment about the engine failure not being a surprise and that a mechanic had already come to try to deal with the engine before. I would have denied taking the boat based on what he said, especially taking it all the way to HI in November!

Anyway, fast forward a week or two and the boat was gone, so presumably he got there since we didn't hear of any issues. Don't know if the "crew" stayed on or if she was replaced by some other unfortunate soul. I would be interested to hear how it went.

Bottom line is: these deliveries happen all the time with poorly maintained boats and they almost always make it there somehow.

 

[psneeld]

The other thing I don't get is if you have a shaky reputation why get all over social media and post every single step you take?

On the topic of these low-end delivery skippers; I witnessed this just a few weeks ago on my dock. The owner of a Hunter 36 wanted to move his boat to HI in November. Now, this boat is nothing special in terms of condition, just an averagely maintained coastal cruiser. I am not a fan of Hunter sailboats as I consider them the bottom tier of sailboat manufactures but that's beside the point. So the owner finds a skipper who is willing to do the trip and the guy shows up, straps a bunch of diesel jugs to the railings and waits for a weather window. He has a girl with him who seems inexperienced and looks more like she had nothing better to do so that's his crew. One afternoon I'm on my boat with a dock neighbor chatting and this Hunter comes drifting into my boat with said captain and "crew". Captain says the engine just quit as they were backing out to do a little trial. "Crew" clearly has no idea about boating whatsoever, but we managed to get them back into their slip without incident.

Once back at the slip the captain thanked me and my friend for helping out and made a comment about the engine failure not being a surprise and that a mechanic had already come to try to deal with the engine before. I would have denied taking the boat based on what he said, especially taking it all the way to HI in November!

Anyway, fast forward a week or two and the boat was gone, so presumably he got there since we didn't hear of any issues. Don't know if the "crew" stayed on or if she was replaced by some other unfortunate soul. I would be interested to hear how it went.

Bottom line is: these deliveries happen all the time with poorly maintained boats and they almost always make it there somehow.

That is true.... sometimes luck and sometimes skill.....sometimes a combo of both.

Also true when determining what a show stopper is and isn't.

A big part is also the voyage itself... long passages obviously do need more attention to detail.

However.....

More than a couple of my deliveries wound up going sour and these were new boats straight from the factory/dealer with a few running hours on them. Two I remember distinctly were a blown turbo at a little over 3hrs engine time requiring repair and another from a failed hose clamp that overheated the engine and required an engine replacement. Neiter exhibited problems before the failures. Hard to outguess situations like that and could have turned ugly on longer voyages.

Again I am not sticking up for the guy in question or for bad delivery skippers, just pointing out different aspects of the job and that no boat that leaves the dock in "perfect" condition is any safer than one you know that has a few fleas.

 

[Larry M]

The Sunseeker’s position yesterday. Maybe 1400 miles from Hilo.

 

[Slowmo]

You couldn't pay me enough money to try to cross the ocean in that boat. Boats are designed for an intended use, this isn't the intended use of a Sea Ray.

 

[mvweebles]

After a long Boat Bum Gal discussion on CruisersForum, someone started a new thread asking how to vet a delivery skipper. Premise was driven by difficulty in due diligence with someone like Ray McCormack.

Beyond actually talking to past clients, my suggestions were to ask (1) has a boat under your control ever had an incident that led to an insurance claim or significant loss/damage for any reason? (2) has a delivery ever been terminated for any reason, including leaving a boat a location that was not its intended destination?

I suspect almost all active skippers will have to answer yes to one or both of these, so question becomes how is it described. Does the skippers explanation make sense? Ring-of-truth? Can you call the owners in those cases? Franky, of a skipper were to answer "no - never had a problem," I'd be suspect. Stuff like what PSneeld notes happens. But if the skipper uses a well-worn excuse "boat wasn't up to the journey - I should have never left the dock," beware." That's the owner you want to talk to. There may be a backstory. Or it could be the owner was green, boat was new, and lousy survey so it really wasn't ready for the trip though I must observe, a delivery skipper should know this too. But if the owner isn't available to discuss, I'd move on to a different skipper to chat with.

Finally, you really need to evaluate the recommendations you received. A Google of Ray McCormack on CF finds a few recommendations that state they only know him by reputation, not a direct relationship. That's not good enough, obviously.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

I will add (the guys I mostly delivered for that were successful businessmen all agreed)

"Half of hiring anyone is hiring the person, not just the resume".....

 

[mvweebles]

I will add (the guys I mostly delivered for that were successful businessmen all agreed)

"Half of hiring anyone is hiring the person, not just the resume".....

One of my professional mentors - an executive who's experience included Fortune 500 names - would not hire anyone either he didn't know, or was known by someone he knew. And by "know," he meant knew their spouses name, age of kids, where they went last year on holiday, etc.

Not a bad philosophy. He still got stung with a bad hire once in a while, but not often.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

The Sunseeker’s position yesterday. Maybe 1400 miles from Hilo.

Accordng to Windy for general location, Winds today are 25-kts with gusts to 36-kts from the NW, and subsiding later today. Wind-waves are in the range of 9-10 feet at 7-seconds from the NW. Note, in these conditions, unlikely the boat could be doing 7.3 kts as reported by Larry M so either the location is old, or I do not have the correct forecast. Boat has stopped moving southward to get around the low pressure cell generating louse weather. Either they got breathing room, or they are concerned about fuel range and are just sucking-up whatever Mother Nature throws at them. Or a combination of both.

While wind/wind-waves subside subtantially late today, there is a deep low pressure 800 nm to the north that is spinning-out swells of around 12-feet at 12-seconds from the NW. These swells will increase to 16-feet tomorrow (also from NW), then begin to subside on Sunday and into Monday to 9-feet at 10-seconds and rotate slightly to the N.

If the boat is still running on late Monday and enough fuel, should be good to go.

Peter

 

[Bmarler]

Just another "opinion/one side of the story" unfortunately.

Any documented "damage/losses/injuries" that have been investigated?

Look.... I am not sticking up for the guy, just interested.... many "accidents/incidents" reviewed on TF have been MAJOR jumps to conclusions.... so just interested in as bad as this guy is being made out to be...just what were his major flawed decisions (with both sides... because what is dangerous to one boater is a wise decision to another...especially when experience gaps are wide).

As far as deliveries go, I had quite a few of "trashed" vessels awaiting me that were in "great shape". Like the one that couldn't make it 200 feet to the fuel dock because both impellers with nubs before starting out. The boat was supposedly running but people in the marina said the boat had been on the hard for 2 years.

An boaters call fishermen natural liars......

when i read rays account of the Boat Bum Gal delivery, the things that stuck out to me were, his sole method of plotting and piloting the course was navionics on his laptop, even though he had issues with it not displaying track lines. he mentioned that he had a ticket in with rose point regarding the issue. he wanted to use track lines as his method of figuring out what direction he was going. absent those, he could only guess by current position. what delivery skipper only uses a single navigation source?
he knew well that the autopilot was having issues and would suddenly change course. he said he had no idea the boat had changed course before they hit the rocks because his track lines were missing. who decides to take a risky route without backup navigation or even a compass handy? with a quirky autopilot? why head for a rocky shore so you can drop the sails? it's going to be rough at the ten meter line. will you be able to power away from danger in those conditions? wouldn't you heavily reef the rig and motor sail the original course?
his decisions on what sails to use, how to rig them, and time to reduce sail were extremely suspect to me.
my opinion is based almost entirely on ray's own accounting of the events.
condition of the vessel is a wild card. i can certainly agree that a vessel of that age will have "fleas" as you call them. but, it's a known heavily built model, and it would take a pretty heavy infestation before it would be unfit for journey, especially if the captain knew of it's deficiencies and handled the boat and rig accordingly.

 

[marcs]

Just another "opinion/one side of the story" unfortunately.

Any documented "damage/losses/injuries" that have been investigated?

He also apparently severely damaged a sailboat called Corahleen going over a wing dam on the Columbia and crossed the bar against the Coast Guard's advice before having further adventures. Seemed like the story ended in another owner's dashed dreams.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/t...s-on-first-baha-ha-ha-leg.244369/post-8515524

There are a lot of sides to the story, true, but they definitely come from a lot of seemingly unrelated directions and Ray doesn't seem to dispute any of the results just the events that caused them. At least with this delivery it seems like the owner knew at least somewhat what he was getting into and had opportunities to abort.

 

[sunchaser]

There are 8+ or- days to Hilo for this fellow. There will be another 5 pages or so of reading on TF. For sure the comments are more captivating than solar panels or LFPs. I wish him luck