Pinned to the dock

[psneeld]

Most mariners I know use prop walk to GET them to the dock which hurts when leaving.


I dock either way based on whether I need the prop walk more coming or going. Many don't think that far ahead.

 

[mvweebles]

You can use the spring line method without going forward to the bow. Use a spring line (that you leave ashore) to the stern and back against it. A helper can be dockside or in the cock pit and flip the line off the cleat once the bow is away from the dock.

This will work, but there is a short lever arm (fulcrum of fender to transom) so may not overcome much wind/current pressing against dock. Best to have a very large diameter fender which will help clear the swim platform and provide a lot of cushion. Large diameter fender also allows the fender to be moved forward a bit to increase lever arm.

But still, these are the types of things that work well on some boats but not others. It really needs to be practiced. Good news is it's sort of fun to practice.

I need to freshen up my skills. It's been a while.

Peter

 

[OldDan1943]

SMILE
We can read the section in Chapman, watch others use spring lines but, at some point you have to pull the trigger. It would be good to have someone standing at your shoulder the first couple of times in an open dock but, eventually you will be on your own.
I was once told, 'Every Captain gets a bit anxious when docking.'
Someone else told me, 'Dont let them see you sweat.'

 

[mvweebles]

Most mariners I know use prop walk to GET them to the dock which hurts when leaving.


I dock either way based on whether I need the prop walk more coming or going. Many don't think that far ahead.

This is actually very good advice. Over the years I've noticed many experienced helmsmen back away from a side tie vs bow-out. I find I have more control backing away, and having prop walk assist is a tremendous help.

 

[OldDan1943]

I almost had to repair another boat because one of my horizontal hung up on a dock. Now, I hang the fenders vertical ..... I too have a couple of over size round red fenders. They are less prone to hang up.
Usually, I pull in all fenders when I back out of my slip. I turn the helm about 30 degrees to port and the boat backs straight at idle or a bit more. Once out, a bit more speed and the boat backs to port or shift your rudder to exit stbd mindful of your swim platform and other boats. When the opportunity presents itself, exit the fairway.... adjusting the helm as necessary.

 

[ktdtx]

http://https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2017/february/using-spring-lines

 

[dhays]

One problem I’ve had at times us being able to use springs effectively to get off a dock with 4x4 timber rails instead of cleats.

 

[Jeff F]

Yes. The OP indicated that in his case reverse prop torque pulled the stern towards the dock. "If we try to move in reverse, the prop crawl pulls the stern into the dock." I assumed a LH prop from that comment.

My current boat has a RH prop and I typically dock starboard side to the dock for that reason. A burst of throttle in reverse from standstill pulls the stern away from the dock. My last boat had LH prop and I docked port side to the dock whenever possible.

As others have pointed out, the best strategy for getting off the dock is to get the stern angled out and exit in reverse. My experience is that having prop torque supporting that goal can make all the difference.

I should add that in my current boat the bow thruster replaces the need for springs and fenders to protect the bow when exiting, and I have enough prop walk to not need to kick the stern out in forward. I push the bow out first with the thruster, then hit the throttle hard in reverse. Works every time.

 

[Portage_Bay]

One problem I’ve had at times us being able to use springs effectively to get off a dock with 4x4 timber rails instead of cleats.

My technique for those situations while not perfect usually works. It can be done with you and crew on the boat, no one the dock.

Before departure rig your lines such that the eye is on your boat's cleat. The bitter end passes from your boat, under the off shore side of the bull rail, up and over the bull rail then back to your boat. Watch our for loose stand offs that hold the bull rail up off the dock. Lines can get pinched there.

When it's time to release the line simply untie the bitter end from your boat. Toss the line onto the dock being careful not to snag or snarl anything and trying to lay the line out as straight as you can without bights and kinks. Now pull on the end still made fast to your boat. If all goes well the bitter end will slip under the bull rail and come aboard neat and easy. A line that is too long can lay on top of itself and create bights and kings which will cause problems here.

I never hesitate to ask a fellow boater or dock hand to stand by. They can easily straighten out the messed up bitter end and you're on your way.

As with everything else. Practice in a non-stressful situation before using it when the wind has got you pinned.

When it goes wrong, and it will sometimes, you have 2 options.
1 - Go back into the dock and start again.
2 - Temporarily abandon the line, get away from the dock and go back with the dingy to rescue the line.

 

[mvweebles]

One problem I’ve had at times us being able to use springs effectively to get off a dock with 4x4 timber rails instead of cleats.

Years ago when I was doing dockside demos at TrawlerFest, one of the vendors had a long line with a rubber-coated stainless C-hook at the end so it was easy to toss onto the dock and grab a bull-rail coming in. Going out was a bit more tricky as it took a flick of the line to dislodge, but was easier than running a looped springline that invariably catches in the crotch where the rail meets an upright. I demo'd it a couple times. Needless to say, the vendor was ecstatic and just gave it to me. It was pretty expensive - somewhere around $125 in 2000 dollars.

Interesting how much different docking is in Alaska vs Florida. I doubt there is a bull-rail in the entire state of Florida.

Peter

 

[dhays]

Yeah, I’ve done that for bow and stern lines, and it often works quite well.

What I have more problems with is trying to use a line for a spring to get off the dock. The line tends to slide along the rail unless it is next to a stand off block. So if I am springing the bow back so that forward throttle will kick the stern out, I have to have the spring go around the rail just behind one of the stand off blocks. Unfortunately, too many of the docks have gaps or crevices in the blocks that the lines tend to jam making it hard to retrieve.

 

[firehoser75]

Yes Dave, up here in BC that for me has been the biggest issue when springing out the stern (occasionally getting the line caught in the block) on the "bull rail" ties.
The bow on most boats is more prone to "catch the wind" (and therefore be pushed back in), so in most instances, springing off the stern is the most effective way to leave a slip when "pinned" on the dock by the wind. However, spring out quite a bit to allow for the prop walk back towards the dock. Not leaving in the first place is always an (good) option if you don't feel comfortable with the situation.
One time, I had to spring off the bow to leave a slip in Lund, BC. They had me docked against the dock with rafting both fore and aft of me 3 deep. I had to spring the bow out to about 80 degrees before I could leave going ahead. I do admit, I luckily had assistance from a good sized man on the dock who took one of our stern lines and helped "pull" the stern through a bit once clear of the dock a foot or so. No opposing wind that day.

 

[ghost]

The best thing that ever happened to me was having a 23’ single screw inboard as my first real boat for about a decade. It teaches you about things such as spring lines, wind and current as a matter of course. More than that, it also taught a young indestructible personality about the importance of humility.

Anyway, I have the benefit of thinking about springs as a matter of course, not as an advanced skill or luxury. It’s a big part of why I bought a 48 with a full walk around and single hand so successfully (knock on wood). When I see people who use their thrusters to leave a dock with their twin screw bow out, my brain hurts a little. I almost always leave stern out. It just makes more sense more often than not. With twins especially, it just gives so many more options.

If I want to leave a parallel dock, it’s almost always rudder hard over to turn the bow into the dock and idle thrust on the outboard engine. Same as I would have done with a single screw. I’m also not afraid to gently rest the bow literally on the dock and push on that to help bring the stern out quickly if needed and I’ve never had to do gel coat repair as once the bow kisses the dock, it’s not moving. With a single the prop walk being a factor if there is wind or current, the easiest thing is to pivot out a full 90 degrees if that gives you the most benefit before backing.

The other interesting tip is that after you have done the maneuver more times than you can count you realize that at least when departing, you rarely actually need the spring line and you rarely actually need to push on the dock. Its nice to have it there, but after awhile it becomes almost unnecessary. Landing is different and springs are almost always a huge help if you can use them.

For you though, I wonder if a single screw is still your best option. Nothing about docking on any boat should rely on an individuals strength and I worry you learned to rely on some bad habits instead of learning the boat. But referencing that humility component, I also know that sometimes things just don’t go perfectly and on a single screw you can exhaust your options. So at a minimum I would think about thrusters, but thrusters don’t have to be, but can, be a huge vector into bad habits as well. I’d rather you learn how to more properly back out from a parallel dock first. Personally I’d consider switching to a boat with twins, if you were up for it. So much easier to control, but also more complex, and still requires the operator to have a plan. That’s a question only you can answer honestly. But something has to change, because personal heroics are not the key to maneuvering any boat.

 

[psneeld]

If I was in an area with prolific bull rails...I would have a half dozen spliced loops out of scrap, used, etc 3 strand, long enough to put a lark's head around the bull rail to act as a stop wherever I needed one or to use with a spring to wherever I needed it.


Being scrap or junk lines they are expendable and left behind when I pull my dockline out of it and head out.


I have done it with pilings I knew would be a problem and many a time I have left a piece of line behind to get away cleanly. Keeping a few lengths of line for that purpose whether pleasure or commercial is second nature.

 

[rgano]

An old version of Knight's Modern Seamanship discussed how to get a twin-screw vessel with a left handed prop to port and righthand to stbd off of a solid wall - won't work with piling pier. You simple take in all lines and with rudder amidships back FULL on the inboard screw. The wash immediately forms a cushion between vessel and wall and continues to push the vessel away as you back. Best not attempted with a vessel astern! I did it a couple of times in my GB 42, and as our friends in Oz say, it works a treat.

 

[jlhegland]

Thanks everyone for your prompt and useful suggestions. One thing I realize is that my ability to problem solve is diminishing. When moored on stbd side where my cabin door and pilot station are, the prop walk does pull me to PORT!! I know that but since we dididn’t move away from the dock because of the wind it registered that the boat was pushing itself back to the dock. So……if there is a next time, I will fix a spring line to the bow and have the skipper back away from the dock using increasing throttle as appropriate. Thanks again, and if you see me in Everett WA keep outa my way!! Cheers.

 

[firehoser75]

Like others discussed, I would suggest that tied starboard side to, wind pushing you on to dock, if using a bow spring line (line runs from the bow cleat back (aft) to the dock around dock cleat and back to boat cleat) that it would work much better to first power forward at idle turned towards the dock. Your bow must be well fendered (the large round ones work great for this. This will bring your stern out from the dock. Once the angle you want (to clear behind you) is achieved (about 45 degrees, maybe more), go to neutral while deckhand releases the line from your bow cleat, then back away. Your prop walk will then help keep you away from your aft dock neighbours and tension on the dock line will drop off and your deckhand can pull it aboard. Practise this in calm conditions, preferably with no boat behind.

 

[jgwinks]

So I am still new here but I have a single screw and a bow thruster - but most of the boats I have seen including mine have swim platforms. It seems to me unless you go bow first and turn the boat into the dock with a spring line - you will crush the stern and the attached swim platform.

I agree. None of the commercial boats I run or ran had swim platforms and we routinely spring the bow out. But my boat does have one and it looks like I'd break it if I tried that. If was angled in at the ends it might work, but the ends of mine are like extensions of the hull sides, they'd hit the dock.

 

[Fish53]

Sort of depends on the specifics of where you are and the conditions, there's several methods. If you're alongside a dock that you can easily get to the end of you can pivot on the corner, as mentioned springlines are your friend but you need to know how to use them. Things like a doubling bight on a dock piling, bit or cleat used as a backing spring so you can let go quickly once the bow is out makes life easier and doesn't take any physical strength or agility to accomplish. I could go on but it's much better to find someone experienced that can take the time to demonstrate and explain.

 

[OldDan1943]

Idle as you move the boat and remember, neutral is a gear.
Back and fill works too.

I suggest, when you are in an area wide enough to maneuver, investigate your prop walk.

Hard a port, idle and see which way your stern moves.
Next hard to starboard, idle and see which way your stern moves.
Increase speed a little bit and repeat.
When you are successful and comfortable ....
You can practice back and fill too.
Dont let them see you sweat!!!

 

[Hippocampus]

Have had occasion where it was safe to travel but getting out was impossible and we really needed to leave. Not discussed yet is using your dinghy. Your RIB is one big fender. Usually it has more horsepower than your thruster. It will pull your boat where you want. And there no timing out or overheating.
Although annoying and time consuming have had the boats engine on, lines all set and then jump in the dinghy. Sometimes we both get in to get the dinghy just right we want it and tied like we want. Then one of us returns to the helm. Using the dinghy as a tug boat has helped us. Yes, it’s a pain. Put it down and then once out take it up. But it’s an option when needed.
Here’s a screw up. Came into a pier knowing we were going to loading a bunch of food and fluids(cases of water,drinks, cooking oils etc.) was tired so although we should have left and anchor out after loading stores we were dumb and didn’t.
Example. Tied to a cement commercial pier. Big fish trawler behind us when we came in. Inter island delivery boat (kind where bow folds down and trucks roll off) came during the night. Trades shifted and pinned us. Launched dinghy. Pulled the boat straight laterally with it as there was maybe a foot or two in front and behind us. Didn’t want our delicate glass flower touch their massive steel vessels with various things sticking out. Between her at the helm and me in the dinghy didn’t touch a thing. She ran us into the bay. I got out and retrieved the ding . Went on our way. Maybe we could have done it with springs. But we were truly pinned. Took off all the dock lines and didn’t move. Fenders compressed. Still, stressful with using the dinghy but much less than if we tried it without it.

 

[psneeld]

Sounds like you were in a sailboat if your dingy could pull you and the main engine and a decent sized rudder couldn't.

But it worked...unfortunately, many are either single handed or the first mate is more deckhand and alone on a boat in higher winds wouldn't go over too well.

Yet another example of another way to skin a cat (to me), but some might say it fit into another way of "just getting away with it."

Can't satisfy everyone.

 

[Fish53]

Yeah, I’ve done that for bow and stern lines, and it often works quite well.

What I have more problems with is trying to use a line for a spring to get off the dock. The line tends to slide along the rail unless it is next to a stand off block. So if I am springing the bow back so that forward throttle will kick the stern out, I have to have the spring go around the rail just behind one of the stand off blocks. Unfortunately, too many of the docks have gaps or crevices in the blocks that the lines tend to jam making it hard to retrieve.

It's much easier to spring off a stern line led forward from the stern quarter, just back into it and the bow comes out. Works great with singles or twins, with a twin you back on the outboard screw. If you make the bitter end of a dockline fast on the boat and run a bight around something on the dock and then back to the cleat on the boat, all you have to do when you let go is take the line off the cleat on the boat and pull it aboard. with this method most boats can swing the bow out until you're almost perpendicular to the dock. I know I make it sound sort of complicated and confusing but in practice it's quite simple.

 

[rslifkin]

It's much easier to spring off a stern line led forward from the stern quarter, just back into it and the bow comes out. Works great with singles or twins, with a twin you back on the outboard screw. If you make the bitter end of a dockline fast on the boat and run a bight around something on the dock and then back to the cleat on the boat, all you have to do when you let go is take the line off the cleat on the boat and pull it aboard. with this method most boats can swing the bow out until you're almost perpendicular to the dock. I know I make it sound sort of complicated and confusing but in practice it's quite simple.

It's easy enough to do, but on a lot of non-commercial boats, you'll smash or crush the swim platform in the process. I certainly wouldn't want to pivot with much force against my platform, even with a fender involved (not that there's a good way to secure one on the corner of the platform).

 

[Fish53]

It's easy enough to do, but on a lot of non-commercial boats, you'll smash or crush the swim platform in the process. I certainly wouldn't want to pivot with much force against my platform, even with a fender involved (not that there's a good way to secure one on the corner of the platform).

I have a friend with a Sisu 30 that has a swim platform and he has a cleat on each corner of the platform, springs on it all the time and hasn't "smashed or crushed" anything in thirty years. When I had my Albin 36 I placed a 42 inch poly ball on the stern quarter and backed into a forward spring and got the bow out just fine and never touched the swim platform to anything. Sometimes you have be a bit inventive, it's a skill that may serve someone well someday.

 

[rslifkin]

I have a friend with a Sisu 30 that has a swim platform and he has a cleat on each corner of the platform, springs on it all the time and hasn't "smashed or crushed" anything in thirty years. When I had my Albin 36 I placed a 42 inch poly ball on the stern quarter and backed into a forward spring and got the bow out just fine and never touched the swim platform to anything. Sometimes you have be a bit inventive, it's a skill that may serve someone well someday.

It definitely depends on the platform. Ones molded into the hull with cleats on them are likely strong enough. Bolt on platforms are at much more risk, I think. And yes, with a large enough fender, it'll work. But most of us don't carry a 42 inch fender, as it's a bit of a challenge to stow on most boats (although every once in a while it would be handy).

 

[Fish53]

It definitely depends on the platform. Ones molded into the hull with cleats on them are likely strong enough. Bolt on platforms are at much more risk, I think. And yes, with a large enough fender, it'll work. But most of us don't carry a 42 inch fender, as it's a bit of a challenge to stow on most boats (although every once in a while it would be handy).

I guess it pays to be prepared when venturing out on the water, there's always room for a gas grill, an air conditioner, matching throw pillows and a buttload of deck chairs but none for a decent fender. It's not a Yokohama, it's just a poly ball, mine fit great under the aft hatch between the water tanks, in fact I had two. I used to hang one from the boom and my grandson would have a great time swinging on it, I think I have pictures. My point is that you can focus on proper seamanship and have fun on the water, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[rslifkin]

I guess it pays to be prepared when venturing out on the water, there's always room for a gas grill, an air conditioner, matching throw pillows and a buttload of deck chairs but none for a decent fender. It's not a Yokohama, it's just a poly ball, mine fit great under the aft hatch between the water tanks, in fact I had two. I used to hang one from the boom and my grandson would have a great time swinging on it, I think I have pictures.

I do keep some deflated ball fenders on board (and inflate when traveling if I think I may need them), just not any that big. But having a boat with no cockpit and no lazarette, I'm a bit limited in storing large objects like that. Best I've got is the storage under the forward stateroom, which means anything that goes down there needs to be easily moved through doorways (so inflated ball fenders over 18 inches need not apply). Other than that, fenders have to stay on deck.

Because of that, I carry what I find useful, but generally not things that I'd use once every couple of years. An 18 inch ball is generally plenty to swing the stern out and back off a dock (and unless there's really a ton of wind, I can often do it without needing a spring line and fender to pivot on anyway), so I just avoid needing to swing the bow out in high winds.

 

[psneeld]

Is it really all that hard to figure that not all swim platforms are created equal? ( size, shape, strength, repair.....)

Or variables about the docks you need to pivot away from can complicate things?

Or that different amounts of everage and therefore force may be required to accomplish what you need to overcome the wind or current?

So many ifs on a forward after spring. I think usually less so on an after bow spring...but still quite a few ifs.

Lastly is some boats and crews are difficult to spring because of layouts, shapes, number of crew, dock hands available or not, location of places to run the spring to....

 

[Fish53]

I do keep some deflated ball fenders on board (and inflate when traveling if I think I may need them), just not any that big. But having a boat with no cockpit and no lazarette, I'm a bit limited in storing large objects like that. Best I've got is the storage under the forward stateroom, which means anything that goes down there needs to be easily moved through doorways (so inflated ball fenders over 18 inches need not apply). Other than that, fenders have to stay on deck.

Because of that, I carry what I find useful, but generally not things that I'd use once every couple of years. An 18 inch ball is generally plenty to swing the stern out and back off a dock (and unless there's really a ton of wind, I can often do it without needing a spring line and fender to pivot on anyway), so I just avoid needing to swing the bow out in high winds.

That's why we live in a free country, not one of those pesky countries that tries to tell you to conform and every boater has oversize fenders. I'll tell you a secret, I also carry a storm anchor although I've never had to use it, and I have those stupid wooden plugs tied to every seacock. Just imagine? All I'm saying is that there is a way, if one choses not to use it fine.