ICW Railroad

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I don’t get the continued campaign.


Not a campaign. I omitted his name for that reason. I was curious whether the experience of this group is similar to mine and others. The Magenta Line followers I could deal with since they mostly went down the middle. As these tracks have become popular I've noticed a increase in the number of incidents such as described in the OP. So have others. This is only a correspondence so it may just be more people out on the water due to Covic, etc. However, even my crew who generally pays little attention to navigation has asked, "Why are so many people on the wrong side of the channel recently?"
 
I cannot fathom anyone turning over the helm responsibilities to a magenta line, especially on the ICW. That line is best described as "suggestions" to be modified by existing traffic conditions.

If you want, go outside, put the boat on auto pilot and hope for the best.
 
The danger signal is five "short" blasts of the horn. "Short" in this case being one second which is actually pretty long.

For this to work, you will need a good air horn, not the piece of crap that comes on most production boats. You can buy one that includes its own small compressor for a couple hundred dollars.

I think most of the people who steer straight down the center of the channel even with another boat approaching are the people who have purchased or downloaded somebody's pre made "tracks" (the name "Bob" comes to mind). Either that or the boat is on auto pilot and following a track.

These are people who have not learned to navigate on their own, don't know what the markers mean and don't understand (or even have) a depth sounder.

They are dangerous people to share the water with, but there's not much that can be done about them.
 
I see a similar thing, although not GPS driven, all the time when walking in crowds such as airport concourses, shopping malls, etc....
When coming head on with another person I'll tend to try to be polite and veer off just a bit, expecting them to do the same. Just a bit + just a bit = enough. Many folks just keep going on their course making me get even further off my line, or else getting uncomfortably close and cozy.

I think this is a "Jerk" driven phenomenon....not a GPS track thing.
 
OP, I can see where you are coming from. There is a certain specific dangerousness when someone trustworthy and knowledgeable puts something forward as the correct thing to do, but there is something hazardous within.

At least the magenta line was supposedly center channel. The tracks you show (published by the fellow who is a recognized expert) have "oncoming" traffic way over on the opposite side, and all justified by this very trustworthy, clearly very experienced person saying it is correct.

I agree with your suggestion that this fellow include a paragraph explaining the caveats, as in your example above (sure, they shouldn't be needed, but the very people who blindly follow the expert tracks are more likely to be the ones who DO need to read it).

I don't understand why he wouldn't already have added this type of paragraph. That's kind of depressing.
 
Remember the old AAA triptix? Follow the yellow line, never look left or right and you will miss the World's Largest Ball of String.
Follow the magenta line just as if you were flying a plane on instruments .... wearing a hood except the ICW is more crowded than the sky, unless you are flying instruments into an airport even then you can get ground control assistance.
I hate to think of these same "magenta line followers" driving the ICW at night because they are following the line.
 
Remember the old AAA triptix?

I do!

Went on a cross country driving trip back in the day with a friend (in his car) whose family had AAA. They were planners and of course we had the oh-so-amazing TripTik. We used it all the way cross country and I swear at the end of that trip I felt like I had barely been anywhere. Just flip the pages and keep driving in a "straight" line. Don't look to the side!

I never used one again because I really didn't like the feeling it lent to the trip. They loved it though.
 
I do!

Went on a cross country driving trip back in the day with a friend (in his car) whose family had AAA. They were planners and of course we had the oh-so-amazing TripTik. We used it all the way cross country and I swear at the end of that trip I felt like I had barely been anywhere. Just flip the pages and keep driving in a "straight" line. Don't look to the side!

I never used one again because I really didn't like the feeling it lent to the trip. They loved it though.
My wife and I just completed a leisurely drive with many side trips from Annapolis to Everett, WA to deliver a vehicle to our son and visit with him. We hadn't seen him in 20 months. Maps software showed the trip to be about 2,800 miles. We drove about 3,500 miles of which only about 500 miles was via interstate highways. We tried very hard to avoid the interstates using them only when there was no alternative US or state route. We even drove 17 miles on dirt roads in Eastern Wyoming to avoid driving 35 miles miles on I-90 leaving Sheridan. The US and state routes west of West Virginia all had speed limits of 60 to 70 mph with very little traffic on them especially west of the Mississippi, far safer driving than on the interstates. We saw some spectacular scenery along the way.
 
The provider of the ICW tracks has posted an excellent article on his Facebook site with a link to the online Rules of the Road. Hopefully, he'll also make that link available wherever his tracks can be downloaded.
 
These are the same folks who get lost when following their GPS while driving their cars.


If you knew how many calls we get from people that say they were following their GPS!!

About two years ago, before they closed the boat ramps for highway expansion, we had a female drive her car DOWN THE BOAT RAMP AND INTO THE WATER. When asked why she decided to drive into the water, her response was "because GPS told me to turn here."

A number of years ago, I had to dispatch officers to rescue a female who had driven onto RR tracks and gotten stuck because her GPS told her to "turn left now" and she thought it meant the tracks and not the road that ran along side the tracks.
 
If you had some influence, thanks and congrats.

We can only hope it does change some behaviors.
 
I just learned something very interesting. I never paid much attention to Navionics auto routes except sometimes for a quick ETA when changing plans or destinations. I just learned that the default for the auto routes is to hug the inside of turns close to the vessels draft setting. There are a lot of Navionics auto route users and those people hugging the wrong side are very likely to be them.
 
I fear the day when computers solely control automobiles: same for boats.

There is no excuse for not having an alert, full-time lookout/driver/helmsman.
 
Amateurs went into space today...50 years ago you had to be the best of the best.


Heck, even when boats with lots of lookouts/drivers/helmsman are on them they are still dangerous...that's what this thread is about.


Thankfully our small boats are maneuverable enough to avoid collisions for the most part.
 
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I just learned something very interesting. I never paid much attention to Navionics auto routes except sometimes for a quick ETA when changing plans or destinations. I just learned that the default for the auto routes is to hug the inside of turns close to the vessels draft setting. There are a lot of Navionics auto route users and those people hugging the wrong side are very likely to be them.
Another Navionics autoroute error is to create routes that travel the wrong way in VTS lanes or travel in the separation zone. It does mark those legs in red and add a warning icon.

Why? If the robot is smart enough to know it's going the wrong way why isn't it smart enough to lay the track line down correctly?

Autorouting needs to be used with a great deal of caution.
 
Does auto routing also take into account the time of day?


Certain restricted areas are hot during certain times and can greatly affect shortest distance routes.
 
I just learned that the default for the auto routes is to hug the inside of turns close to the vessels draft setting. There are a lot of Navionics auto route users and those people hugging the wrong side are very likely to be them.

I can't imagine using autorouting for the ICW! (I didn't even use autopilot, but granted had deeper draft boat.)

But that's interesting because I bet many people do use it there. Yikes then on bends.
 
Does auto routing also take into account the time of day?


Certain restricted areas are hot during certain times and can greatly affect shortest distance routes.
That's a tall order for an algorithm that can't route me out of the shipping lanes. That's asking the robot to track restricted area use, monitor my time of transit, make route adjustments as I move along the track. It's all technically possible but not likely to happen.
 
A number of years ago, I had to dispatch officers to rescue a female who had driven onto RR tracks and gotten stuck because her GPS told her to "turn left now" and she thought it meant the tracks and not the road that ran along side the tracks.

I had a small hybrid Ford. Driving north on I95 for long boring hours.... suddenly, my GPS lady said "Turn right here, now." I was traveling an 70+mph....
I looked to my right to see an embankment going up...... I think she did this when she got bored. Took a while but, Ford finally updated the software. LOL
 
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I had a small hybrid Ford. Driving north on I95 for long boring hours.... suddenly, my GPS lady said "Turn right here, now." I was traveling an 70+mph....
I looked to my right to see an embankment going up...... I think she did this when she got bored. Took a while but, Ford finally updated the software. LOL
Driving on a 110kmh road in Germany. GPS said "Turn right". So we did. A minute later it was "Turn left". A minute after that, "Turn left". A minute later "Turn right". We had resumed the original road, traffic flowing normally in both directions.
 
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I had a small hybrid Ford. Driving north on I95 for long boring hours.... suddenly, my GPS lady said "Turn right here, now." I was traveling an 70+mph....
I looked to my right to see an embankment going up...... I think she did this when she got bored. Took a while but, Ford finally updated the software. LOL

Imagine what would have happened if the car followed instructions. :eek:
 
Wifey B: Just not enough revenues in it to do more with autorouting for boats today. All possible. So, I present to you a true autorouting challenge.

From the entrance of the Thames River to London is 45 nm.

We start at the entrance. There's the very nice Yantlet Channel with great bouys and marking. Nope, not for us, commercial only. So you ask, what about the Yantlet Secondary Channels on each side. Still nope. I quote: You should keep your recreational vessel well clear of the Yantlet Channel and prior to using the crossing routes marked on this guide call ‘London VTS’ to inform them of your intentions, while adhering to the following procedure whenever possible. Inward from the North – Keep close to the starboard-hand buoys and beacons as you come up the river. At the West Leigh Middle Buoy, cross to the south side of the Yantlet Channel, having first made sure that the fairway is clear. Make for East Blyth Buoy before turning onto the inward track. There is safe water for small vessels to the south of the Mid Blyth, West Blyth, and Lower Hope Buoys. Remember outbound vessels will pass close to the port hand buoys as you continue on the south of the channel. When it is safe, cross back to the starboard side of the river in Lower Hope Reach as quickly as possible. Inward from the South – Keep to the south of the Yantlet Channel well clear of the deepwater route, crossing to the north side in the Lower Hope as described above.

Of course simple to talk and listen on VHF but you have three different channels for the 45 nm. Channel 69 (from the seaward limit to Sea Reach No. 4 Buoy) - Navigational broadcasts are made at 15 minutes and 45 minutes past each hour. • Channel 68 (from Sea Reach No 4 Buoy to Crayfordness) - Navigational broadcasts are made on the hour and at 30 minutes past each hour. • Channel 14 (from Crayfordness to Teddington) - Navigational broadcasts are made at 15 minutes and 45 minutes past each hour. At sea reach 4 you change from 69 to 68. At Crawfordness, about 29 miles in you change to 14.

Now, the two seven year olds were very excited to see traffic lights. There are traffic warning lights at Cliffe and Canvey Island. When flashing, these indicate that large vessels are manoeuvring in this area. A further light at Tilbury gives advanced warning of large ship movements in and out of Tilbury Lock or manoeuvring/turning in Northfleet Hope bound to/from nearby berths. When these lights are activated, you should reduce speed if necessary and keep clear of large manoeuvring vessels.

Then we get to this warning-Inward and outward bound vessels rounding Tilburymess should be aware of strong tidal sets and the presence of
vessels manoeuvring at and swinging for berths in the area, including Tilbury Lock.

Oh and someone asked about tides. See the Thames has up to 23' tides and a current of 5 mph. Kayakers ride the current in and out. As a result all the marinas are behind locks and arrival is generally only allowed something like 2 hours before high tide and 1.5 hours after. Otherwise you're stuck. Put that in your autoroute. At our marina in London, lock times were from 12:04 to 15:34 with high tide at 14:04 and high tides at 22.2'.

Also to your right as you enter you have an Inner Firing Danger area followed immediately by a huge recreational boating area at Southend. Oh, and it has an 8 knot speed limit. So do most tributaries.

Ok, let's assume we made it past the area with the ship channel and past a couple of the big commercial ports. Right past the Stone Ness Lighthouse, there's an area with an 8 knots speed limit "when specified vessels are berthed as broadcast by London VTS".

Then there is one of the coolest freaking things I've seen, the Thames Tidal Barrier. You must contact London VTS and ask for permission to proceed and they will which span to use and it will be shown by green arrows on the piers to either side. It gets a full test about once a month. It's over 1700' long and protects London from floods. It's made up of ten gates, each weight 3300 tonnes (metric). It is 65' tall. About once a month they do a full test closure and reopening. I recall after Katrina there were some who proposed similar protection for Lake Pontchartrain in New Orleans area.

Ok, from that point the speed limit is 12 knots. There's also one high speed zone along the way.

The river is filled with every imaginable type vessel from military to commercial shipping to high speed tour boats to kayaks and paddleboards. A cornucupia of excitement. We're at the break between the lower pool and the upper pool and the additional 10 miles or so up we're not going to cover by boat, will see other ways.

Definitely one of the most interesting waterways I've been on, but I can't imagine the task of putting it into an interactive autorouting chart function. :rofl:
 
I guess it all depends on the cruising goal.

The old question,Is it the cruise that matters or the destination.?

The destination folks probably delight at the does all AP,, if only it could dock the boat!

The trip folks don't seem to mind looking out the windows and correcting the heading a bit.At 6-8K they can still read a book as they cruise along.
 
If anyone depends on Navionics auto-routing, I am going to suggest that you inspect that route closely before following it.

I made an auto route once and it took me from the Chesapeake Bay up the mouth of a river and then back into the Bay to continue towards my destination. I ran it three times with the same result. I had to manually eliminate that section.

Other times it has taken me through restricted areas or way out of the way.

When actually operating the boat, I find pre planned routes convenient but I look to the markers and just use the routes to keep from getting lost or blown out of the channel.
 
If anyone depends on Navionics auto-routing, I am going to suggest that you inspect that route closely before following it.

I made an auto route once and it took me from the Chesapeake Bay up the mouth of a river and then back into the Bay to continue towards my destination. I ran it three times with the same result. I had to manually eliminate that section.

Other times it has taken me through restricted areas or way out of the way.

When actually operating the boat, I find pre planned routes convenient but I look to the markers and just use the routes to keep from getting lost or blown out of the channel.
That sounds like the old car GPS navigators when someone I know clicked the "AVOID TOLLS" option.
 
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