GenSet Replacement

[Steve DAntonio]

If you go with a NL, and you probably can't go wrong going that route it's a high quality product with stellar support, and you are ordering rather than buying one off a showroom floor (if there are any), ask for the following...

"Junction box ground should be larger, no less than one size smaller than the wire used to connect the gen to the vessel's panel"

Every NL J box ground wire is a #16, woefully inadequate for carrying fault current for even the smallest genset.

"The hole through which the boat's AC wires will pass, in the junction box, should be a standard knock out so an off the shelf cord grip can be used"

This is a non-standard size hole, making it very difficult to meet the ABYC requirement for wire immobilization in this area. You will need to give them the size cord grip you intend to use.

Both of these mods can be made when installing the genset if you are buying one that's already been built.

These requirements hold true for all gensets, some make provisions in the design to contend with them better than others.

Photos, a proper cord grip; no cord grip (just a bushing which is inadequate); the undersized J box ground; a properly sized j box ground.

 

[JadePanama]

Another plug for NL. On my 4th vessel with NL Gens. currently have 2000 era 32k and 16k gens. both have excess of 6500 hours on them and just run flawlessly. just routine oil changes and impellers every year or so.

Prior vessels had 1990 era and 2010 era 6k and 10k gens that similarly had thousands of hours with little issues.

I have always had the mindset to buy the right one once and it saves so many headaches down the road.

best of luck!

 

[Wolfgang]

Just wondering about that 2,800 RPM spec - isn't that just the rated horsepower spec, not the governed speed of the engine for the generator head?

Jack you are right on. 21 hp at 2800 rpm converts to 15.5 kW. If the engine is running at 1800 rpm the output is about 10 kW.

 

[Mobcat]

Kohler 9ekozd 2017 model 2700hrs thus far 5 impellers 13 oil filters 1 oil pressure sender 2 water pressure senders I complete raw water pump and pulleys belt etc 1 diesel prime pump fuel lift pump, have had to raise revs slightly on governor to fix low frequency shut down 2 hose clamps fell off salt water cooler rubber lines had to replace them seemed of poor quality clamps ….. would I recommend Kohler ???? I don’t know it’s had a few bugs in it but does sound solid whilst operating and seems like bugs have been removed now so hoping for just usual maintenance in future …. But when I look at the list above does seem excessive for 2700hrs but I would say they have been minor issues but still all the same inconvenient as i am the one who had to fix it, when it goes wrong!

 

[diver dave]

Kohler 9ekozd 2017 model 2700hrs thus far 5 impellers 13 oil filters 1 oil pressure sender 2 water pressure senders I complete raw water pump and pulleys belt etc 1 diesel prime pump fuel lift pump, have had to raise revs slightly on governor to fix low frequency shut down 2 hose clamps fell off salt water cooler rubber lines had to replace them seemed of poor quality clamps ….. would I recommend Kohler ???? I don’t know it’s had a few bugs in it but does sound solid whilst operating and seems like bugs have been removed now so hoping for just usual maintenance in future …. But when I look at the list above does seem excessive for 2700hrs but I would say they have been minor issues but still all the same inconvenient as i am the one who had to fix it, when it goes wrong!

Nice. I cant get 5/600 hours on my impellers.

 

[Mobcat]

Same for me though 2700hrs divided by 5 impellers equals the amount of hrs, I usually replace them when I notice a reduced amount of water coming out the exhaust, I did time a bucket fill once but forgot how long it was, does make a different tone when reduced water in exhaust as well so I just change impeller with usually a fin or 2 missing cheap insurance

 

[diver dave]

Vane or two missing. [emoji43]

 

[mickand]

NL for me - in 7 years and for 1300hrs, my 6kw has been trouble-free.
Do you need 8kw - a smaller unit would be less dollars.

 

[Gdavid]

I know there are companies out there that sell propane conversion kits for the Hondas. Does anyone have experience with such a conversion for use on a boat?

A friend of mine has one rigged up for propane on his Catalina 38, he gets a significantly longer run time with a 20 lb bottle compared to the internal gas tank. He carries propane for his galley anyway and is very happy with it. He does not have.a diesel generator.

 

[Mobcat]

Vane or two missing. [emoji43]

And the tip of a vanes fin as well

 

[diver dave]

A friend of mine has one rigged up for propane on his Catalina 38, he gets a significantly longer run time with a 20 lb bottle compared to the internal gas tank. He carries propane for his galley anyway and is very happy with it. He does not have.a diesel generator.

Hmmm, 20 lbs of propane is around 3 gallons liquid. The 2200 holds 1.1 gallons. I would expect almost 3x run time. But is propane gallon cost more or less than gas?

 

[Mobcat]

Vane or two missing. [emoji43]

Have been contemplating replacing belt driven flunky imo impeller pump with magnetic drive 240v pump connected directly to gen set as are service free for thousands of hrs and do seem the logical way for seawater delivery same as raw water air conditioning cooling, but no generator manufacturers use them????????? !. Would save the common problem with impeller driven raw water pumps serviceability durability.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3843292...T2kygmURf2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[diver dave]

Self priming would be the significant obstacle. Just mount pump below waterline to fix that; being a constant speed diesel helps too.

 

[Mobcat]

Constant speed diesel ????? what difference does that make to electric pump operation

 

[rslifkin]

Constant speed diesel ????? what difference does that make to electric pump operation

It means the water flow is constant, so an electric pump that always runs at the same speed is perfect. On a variable speed engine, water flow varies with RPM.

 

[catalinajack]

Good point about the large supply of diesel. But, I was not suggesting propane in the bildge. I know some folks have a small gasoline gen for occasional use (which are quieter than big diesel in the engin room) that they plug into the shore power plug. I figure if you already have propane galley and grill... maybe a small converted to propane gen would be convenient. But you are right... if someone needs long generator run times... diesel is the way to go.

Where, then, is your generator located? If it is in the engine room then you would have a supply line there to run the generator on propane. A leak would accumulate in the lowest part of the ER, the bilge. Are you talking about a Honda-type gas generator converted to propane, one that is commonly kept outside like on a swim platform?

 

[sunchaser]

Hi All -

38yo Genny is kaput. 1984 Onan MDKD 8kW w/3cyl Kubota engine.



Looking at 9kW Onan/Cummins and 9.5kW Beta Marine to start.


Genny recommendations (or avoids) in the 8-10kW range?


Sincere Thanks!

Ben
Have you compared install price and delivery time for choices, say Onan, NL and Westerbeke? After 35+ years with Onan it is hard to knock it.

Wait times may well determine your decision, in other words do you want to cruise or sit?

 

[CaptTom]

Have been contemplating replacing belt driven flunky imo impeller pump with magnetic.

I did this years ago. The raw water pump was always a source of problems and failures with this (Onan 7.5KW) genset. It finally got damaged during one of the many times I had to remove and repair it, and given the price of a new one I decided to try an air conditioner pump, instead.

I've had zero problems with this arrangement. The pump is tied directly to the generator, so it runs the whole time the engine is running. I don't really understand why this isn't the standard setup. I've never had to replace an impeller on an air conditioner pump.

 

[Mobcat]

Yeah I think it’s the way to go captain it just makes sense like replacing the Noah’s Ark fuel lift pump on a ford Lehman with 12volt fuel pump it’s just a better option in 2022 than old school stuff and when your using this stuff daily 365 these little things add up in time head FK and coin …. With the magnetic drive pump for raw water on gen set I’m thinking a breaker independent board for the pump with a in built ELD on the power point ? Or what have you done just wired the pump directly into the supply outlet on the Gen Set ?

 

[Mobcat]

Yeah I think it’s the way to go captain it just makes sense like replacing the Noah’s Ark fuel lift pump on a ford Lehman with 12volt fuel pump it’s just a better option in 2022 than old school stuff and when your using this stuff daily 365 these little things add up in time head FK and coin …. With the magnetic drive pump for raw water on gen set I’m thinking a breaker independent board for the pump with a in built ELD on the power point ? Or what have you done just wired the pump directly into the supply outlet on the Gen Set ?

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I have been happy with our new (2021) NL6kw except for one incident.

We were having a problem with it heavily smoking for about 2 minutes after start-up. After several conversations with NL, I contacted the seller/installer and he came by to take a look. With about 95 hours on it, he said we hadn't been running it hard enough and we hadn't adjusted the valves at 50hrs. We had been running as per break-in instructions-variable loads from about 25% to around 90%- and the info in our manual said to do the initial valve adjustment at 100hrs. He showed his sheet which said 50hrs. and told us to run it full bore until the smoke cleared up when starting. He also adjusted the valves. The problem appears to have cleared up.

I guess I was a little peeved that after having spent years keeping my old 1978 Onan MDJE running and spending $18k for the removal of it and the purchase and installation of the new NL6kw, I was looking forward to a no hassle genset experience. I wish that NL had mentioned the change in valve setting schedule when I talked with them several times on the phone. Or wish that they had notified me by email of the maintenance change as they had my contact info. Instead I wasted time following their suggestions to change the fuel filter and air cleaner. This was on top of having to pay the mechanic for the valve adjustment-something that I am capable of doing and had planned on doing when the genset reached 100hrs. Gripe over.

Tator

Valve adjustment on this model is checked at 50 & 100 hours, then every 1000 hrs. or two years thereafter, whichever comes first. See page 15 of the manual. Can you share the 100 hr. valve adjustment spec from your manual? If not, I think your criticism of NL is unfounded.



Also available here https://www.northern-lights.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/OM673L3.pdf

A min 50% (not 25%) break in load is required.

Break In Specs

BREAK-IN PERIOD
1. The first 100 hours on a new or reconditioned engine
are critical to its life and performance.
2. Operate the engine under various conditions,
particularly heavy loads to help seat engine
components properly. 50% load is required; 75% is
preferred.
3. Constantly check the engine temperature and oil
pressure gauges (sets with Series 3 or 4 panels).
4. Oil consumption is greater during break-in as piston
rings take time to seat.
5. Break-In Oil Changes: Change engine oil and filter
at 50 hours. Change oil and filter again at 100 hours,
then at every 200 hours (consult Lubricants section for
oil recommendation).

I agree, changing a fuel filter should have no affect on smoke, that is a bit annoying, but to be fair, NL experiences a lot of service calls that are the result of a clogged primary filter, so it's not unusual for them to recommend it be changed, I encountered this recently myself with them when TS a gen that would not make full power, in that case it made sense, but it wasn't the issue. An obstructed air cleaner could cause smoking...

 

[Antares]

I'm also in need of a new generator or to find an exhaust manifold/coolant tank for my 8kw Onan MDKD. If I go with a new generator it will be in the 5kw range. Currently mine goes through a 30 amp breaker which makes it difficult to use 8kw. The break in requirements make me wonder how to accomplish the needed load percentage with a mismatch between the breaker and the generator kw capacity.

 

[long-cours.62]

We remove our two Kolher 20kw and replace them by :
17kw Kolher (similar to the former 20 kw)
9kw ONAN


The after sale (in France ) for the ONAN is better (by far !!)

We was bloked during the worste part of the covid on a canal far from all, the after sale of the Onan help us and we can solve the problem by ourself
The answer from Kolher was "see our nearest local distributor" or "buy a new genset"...

 

[tpfbdf]

Where, then, is your generator located? If it is in the engine room then you would have a supply line there to run the generator on propane. A leak would accumulate in the lowest part of the ER, the bilge. Are you talking about a Honda-type gas generator converted to propane, one that is commonly kept outside like on a swim platform?

Yes... a small portable Honda type for occasional use. Not something to replace a huge diesel that can support several heavy loads at once.

 

[CaptTom]

Or what have you done just wired the pump directly into the supply outlet on the Gen Set ?

Yes. I was acting somewhat impulsively. I was fed up with that mechanical impeller pump! So I wired it directly. It might have been better to wire a proper junction box with a fuse box and outlet, so the pump could be swapped out without cutting and re-terminating wires.


In my defense, I always want the pump running when the generator is producing power. Any kind of switch could be accidentally left off. This thing has already run for years with zero maintenance. Compared to any impeller pump, the minor inconvenience of dragging out my spare pump and splicing three wires would be trivial, should it ever fail.

 

[Simi 60]

Have been contemplating replacing belt driven flunky imo impeller pump with magnetic drive 240v pump connected directly to gen set as are service free for thousands of hrs and do seem the logical way for seawater delivery same as raw water air conditioning cooling, but no generator manufacturers use them????????? !. Would save the common problem with impeller driven raw water pumps serviceability durability.

]

Many do it

I have had this MD30 pump in use for several years on the Genset
Same for the waternaker
Another on the still
Zero issues and a spare close at hand if required.


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MD-30-M...7-d727-474d-97eb-a417ff31cb5e&redirect=mobile

I wired a builders box directly into the Genset and then plug the pump into it.
Builders box has an RCD built in

 

[Tator]

Valve adjustment on this model is checked at 50 & 100 hours, then every 1000 hrs. or two years thereafter, whichever comes first. See page 15 of the manual. Can you share the 100 hr. valve adjustment spec from your manual? If not, I think your criticism of NL is unfounded.

View attachment 131609

Also available here https://www.northern-lights.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/OM673L3.pdf

A min 50% (not 25%) break in load is required.

Break In Specs

BREAK-IN PERIOD
1. The first 100 hours on a new or reconditioned engine
are critical to its life and performance.
2. Operate the engine under various conditions,
particularly heavy loads to help seat engine
components properly. 50% load is required; 75% is
preferred.
3. Constantly check the engine temperature and oil
pressure gauges (sets with Series 3 or 4 panels).
4. Oil consumption is greater during break-in as piston
rings take time to seat.
5. Break-In Oil Changes: Change engine oil and filter
at 50 hours. Change oil and filter again at 100 hours,
then at every 200 hours (consult Lubricants section for
oil recommendation).

I agree, changing a fuel filter should have no affect on smoke, that is a bit annoying, but to be fair, NL experiences a lot of service calls that are the result of a clogged primary filter, so it's not unusual for them to recommend it be changed, I encountered this recently myself with them when TS a gen that would not make full power, in that case it made sense, but it wasn't the issue. An obstructed air cleaner could cause smoking...

My boat and hence the manual and maintenance logs are 1000 miles away and covered for winter storage. I stand by what I said about my manual having the first valve adjustment at 100 hours-I am old but, I checked it many times against the schedule that my mechanic brought to the boat and will re-check it when I return in May and either copy it or issue a mea culpa.. My thinking was that it had been revised and I was wishing that NL had contacted me with the revision.

Concerning the break in requirements for load. I misspoke in my post and was stating what I believe are the load suggestions after break in-not for the break in period. I would need to check my log when I return, but I'm sure I followed the requirements as layed out in the manual. I was running unneeded space heaters after my water heater had reached it's set point as well as my 130amp battery charger to keep the load up. The coffee pot provided additional current help with it cycling off and on.

So far , I do like my NL genset and the service and installation have been great. Just wanted to make a little gripe.

Tator

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Sounds good, let us know. I'd expect the manual shipped with a new gen to be up to date but who knows.