Fun New West Marine Policy

[SteveK]

Others spoke of tracking what a customer wants. Computers can do that without the staff pressing special buttons. For instance WM has an online store, what you search for can be recorded and compared to inventory, did a sale occur. Also when a staff member gets on computer to find the part is available and could arrive in a week, the computer can record that and then was there a sale. Every sale can be counted.
Of course a human may need to decide whether that widget is worth stocking since in 10 years only one was sold. But the point is computer tracking of inventory is not difficult and once set up does not need the min wage clerk to press a special button on keyboard.

 

[FWT]

As I begin the slow march to winding down a career, a lot of what is discussed here applies to pretty much all businesses, and can be summed up in a few points:

1) Strategy is over-rated. Execution is everything. A half-decent strategy executed well will beat the pants off a killer strategy poorly executed.

2) Change is much more expensive than many think. It confuses the customers and the staff. So in choosing a strategy, choose wisely and prepare to stick with it through thick and thin. Measure twice, cut once doesn't begin to catch it. Measure 10x, and examine it from all angles.

3) Strategy can be summed up as: what is your edge? If you don't know, you don't have one. If you don't have one you have problems. Develop it, and guard it carefully. Then, where does it leave you vulnerable?

4) The world is run by the cadre of staff sargents. These are the people who just make it happen. They need to buy into the plan. Board powerpoints designed to wow can get the CEO a raise, until he is fired because it didn't work because the staff sargents thought it was a crock. Fire them because they think its a crock and are not "team players", and you may be pointing the gun in the wrong direction. Understand resistance.

5) What do the staff sargents need and want in order to take the hill? Listen. If it makes sense, get it for them. If. The big job of the CEO is staffing, and resource allocation to deliver the strategy and protect the edge.

Lots more of course. But one can go a long way just nailing down those 5.

My two cents.

 

[Blissboat]

As I begin the slow march to winding down a career, a lot of what is discussed here applies to pretty much all businesses, and can be summed up in a few points:

1) Strategy is over-rated. Execution is everything. A half-decent strategy executed well will beat the pants off a killer strategy poorly executed.

2) Change is much more expensive than many think. It confuses the customers and the staff. So in choosing a strategy, choose wisely and prepare to stick with it through thick and thin. Measure twice, cut once doesn't begin to catch it. Measure 10x, and examine it from all angles.

3) Strategy can be summed up as: what is your edge? If you don't know, you don't have one. If you don't have one you have problems. Develop it, and guard it carefully. Then, where does it leave you vulnerable?

4) The world is run by the cadre of staff sargents. These are the people who just make it happen. They need to buy into the plan. Board powerpoints designed to wow can get the CEO a raise, until he is fired because it didn't work because the staff sargents thought it was a crock. Fire them because they think its a crock and are not "team players", and you may be pointing the gun in the wrong direction. Understand resistance.

5) What do the staff sargents need and want in order to take the hill? Listen. If it makes sense, get it for them. If. The big job of the CEO is staffing, and resource allocation to deliver the strategy and protect the edge.

Lots more of course. But one can go a long way just nailing down those 5.

My two cents.

Good stuff, FWT, especially #1, #3 and #5. Strategy is meaningless without executing on that strategy. And strategy does indeed derive from what you call your "edge," or what might be called your brand. Identify that brand, cultivate it and as you say, "guard it carefully," and much of the rest will start to fall into place.

As to #5, the most important thing a CEO does is to find the right person for each job. Many CEOs think that if they spend 20% of their time and effort on "human resources," they've done a lot. In fact, it's important enough to be 50%, sometimes more in a pinch.

 

[BandB]

If you owned a business and were in this situation, how you would you proceed?

Do you keep taking the returns and loosing the money?

Do you stop selling many manufacturer's products?

Do you simply accept the returns for items that can be re-shelved and re-sold and send the customer's to the manufactured to have the warranty honored??

The common sentiment is this is a huge corporation who can afford to take a few losses for the little guy. But then again, Sears was a giant. Before them Woolworth was on every Main Street.

Well, as a retailer with the issue, it's a challenge. Our official printed policy is far tougher than our practice. However, with most products we're authorized to provide service and can repair them. We also rent equipment though and that's where the returns end up.

We've had virtually no claims dishonored by manufacturers. If they regularly did so and we couldn't resolve it, we'd have to stop selling their product.

I do not think it's reasonable to refer all problems to the manufacturer. If a product is sold new and doesn't work, then the seller must accept it. If they can't then return it to the manufacturer, they need to address the issue. I think in 95% of the cases they could return it, but they just don't want to go through the trouble and wait for the money. Also, understand, West is buying many products from distributors, not the manufacturer. That complicates it further. However, a customer buys a product at retail that doesn't work, the burden should not fall to the customer.

Every aspect of customer service has costs associated with it. However, you can't simply say to the customer "tough luck" and while they may say that's not what they're saying, that's exactly it.

The previous management of West recognized they had a return policy and strengthened their policy. Now, the new management needs to recognize they have a problem and work toward a solution. Saying "tough luck' isn't ok.

It's a tough situation but clearly one they need to address.

Every retailer must come up with a way to sell those returned and repaired items too. We don't sell repaired or reconditioned items in our regular stores, but we do sell them on ebay and in second hand stores. Ultimately, a company the size of WM should have someone in charge of that company wide. In case the question arises, we don't sell in the regular store at a discount, because we don't want to erode regular sales. We sell elsewhere to a customer who wasn't going to buy first quality at full price.

 

[Brooksie]

West Marine is a "court of last resort" for any thinking buyer. They have way too much overhead to be just a convenience store. They are just circling the drain from their own stupidity at this point. RIP West

 

[twistedtree]

In fact, I'm not convinced the West Marine name is salvageable. I'd likely start by renaming, rebranding, starting it all over.

I've been wondering the same thing. The name is so tarnished at this point that they are guilty until proven innocent. If they started clean with a new name, new policies, new look, they would have to rebuild their customer base, but at least they would be new and innocent until proven guilty. The West name has good recognition as a place to buy Marine stuff. That's the plus for keeping the name. But it comes along with being know as the "bad place" to buy marine stuff, and that will be hard to unwind. So really what you are looking at is starting a whole new marine supply chain, utilizing the assets that were once West Marine.


I think they are the walking dead.

 

[backinblue]

West Marine is a "court of last resort" for any thinking buyer. They have way too much overhead to be just a convenience store. They are just circling the drain from their own stupidity at this point. RIP West

Agreed that the end is near for them. However they are only minutes from my boat and home, so in a pinch I still use them at times.

 

[HeadMistress]

I remember when WM was the marine store "King of Hill"...before they went public. I bought 200 shares of their stock right after it did...paid about $27/share. WM was so popular then that their stock soared to $72/share and split 2/1. I sold half mine and then watched the value of the remaining 200 shares (their money) steadily drop for the next year as they focuse on buying out E&B, BoatUS and every other medium-large chain, becoming seriously cash strapped. As a vendor whose terms were "net 30, 2% 10 days, I rarely got paid in less than 60 days and they took the 2%! When I complained about it, I was told "we don't have to buy your products." I sold my remaining shares at around $20..saw it continue to drop until it hit $15 and never saw it rise above that.


So the handwriting has been on WM's wall for more than 20 years...it's amazing they've lasted this long.


-Peggie

 

[backinblue]

Reminds me of when Blackberry dominated the smartphone market. Talk about colossal missed opportunities!

 

[HeadMistress]

Were Blackberries phones or just PDAs?


--Peggie

 

[backinblue]

I had a Blackberry phone for a few years. Everyone in business had one. They replaced pagers and was the beginning of email and texting on a cell phone. They had 99% of the business cell phone market. How they f-ed that up I have no idea.

 

[dhays]

This last Saturday we got a later start than planned and spent 2 hours in the dark coming back to the home marina. I discovered that my port running light was out. (that is on me) So SundayI pulled off the cover and found that the bulb just had a bad connection. Rather than just fix that, I decide to replace the bulb with an LED as I had done to the starboard running light 5 years ago.


I needed the bulb on Sunday. I was able to go three blocks to the local, independent chandlery/kayak/SUP retailer to see if they had what I wanted. Sure enough, they had one in stock. It was expensive, $30. However, it was then in my hand and shortly thereafter was installed in the boat. Sure, I would have liked to grab a spare, but they only had one. However, the fact that this small local shop did have one was pretty impressive. I got what I needed, when I needed it. I also gave one small boost to the local economy. Also while I was there, I picked up a bottle of Raritan C.P. I remembered we were out. They had that as well. The local West Marine, which is admittedly a very small store, would not have had either of those items based on past experience.

 

[Yachtman]

they had 99% of the business cell phone market. How they f-ed that up i have no idea.

ego

 

[Frosty]

Just because this executive is a "professional executive" doesn't mean anything without asking him....

...Unless you have personal knowledge of this guy.... you have no idea what he knows about marine products.

That's a point, but.... I read the linked article and it's five healthy sized paragraphs about him coming on board as CEO of West Marine -- without a whisper about him being a boater.

If he actually is an avid boater and they just didn't mention it, that seems pretty dumb. So I'd guess he isn't. Of course, we don't know for sure; maybe they just decided to keep it a secret

 

[backinblue]

Not sure that it matters whether the CEO is a boat owner. Does the CEO of an airline need to be a pilot to run a successful company?

 

[lwarden]

I just did a long survey last night from WM, the reward was $25 gift certificate. Pay to me was about $60 an hour since it took 25 minutes to do so not bad for some idle time in the late evening. But, I really did it more for the interest in the types of questions they asked. They are clearly trying to find an area to concentrate on, like is a repair guide important or what is your pattern of buying is, and how you make your buying decisions. It was actually kind of interesting. I'm sure these will go into a conjoint analysis so the new management can develop a new strategy and get a business plan to address the weakness of the current approach.

I'm not a big fan of WM but I still support them when it makes sense and am always happy to have another retailer around when in a pinch. But like many on here I shop in advance of big projects and search out the best prices online. I also keep stock of many things like plumbing and electrical by buying extra fittings and connectors, etc so I'm not in a rush for these things when a project calls for them.

 

[BandB]

I just did a long survey last night from WM, the reward was $25 gift certificate. Pay to me was about $60 an hour since it took 25 minutes to do so not bad for some idle time in the late evening. But, I really did it more for the interest in the types of questions they asked. They are clearly trying to find an area to concentrate on, like is a repair guide important or what is your pattern of buying is, and how you make your buying decisions. It was actually kind of interesting. I'm sure these will go into a conjoint analysis so the new management can develop a new strategy and get a business plan to address the weakness of the current approach.

I'm not a big fan of WM but I still support them when it makes sense and am always happy to have another retailer around when in a pinch. But like many on here I shop in advance of big projects and search out the best prices online. I also keep stock of many things like plumbing and electrical by buying extra fittings and connectors, etc so I'm not in a rush for these things when a project calls for them.

I think they are also still trying to figure out their target customer or customers too. It may very well not be the Trawler Forum constituent. Perhaps a younger demographic with family more into family boating and toys and paddleboards and less price conscious? Is it professionals or does West Marine Pro, formerly Port Supply, no longer serve a major purpose? Is it more accessories than parts? How much of it is dressing for the water? I would think even questions about location are important as if they're traditional retail then high traffic areas become key as they have to assume then customers will not seek them out.

I would say too that this next attempt may be the last chance. If it involves a change in approach then can that work? Can they gain a new customer without losing the old? Can they bring back customers? I would say paying $25 to thousands or more customers to try to get some information shows that they know a refocusing is necessary. Also a bit impressive and a bit scary as an admission they don't have people in the company who they are confident have all the answers.

As to the CEO not knowing boating, I do not find that as a negative at all. In fact in some ways it's a positive as he seeks to learn the business and market. Ideally, he'd learn from those already there, but he can only trust them so far as clearly what they've been doing hasn't been successful. In my previous professional life where we did buy fairly large companies at times, that was one of the most difficult challenges in some cases. We'd buy a company in a segment of the industry we were not in. I can think of one case in particular where existing management was firm in their beliefs they knew more than we did. Had to remind them rather bluntly at some point as I suspect the CEO of WM may have to that if they knew what they were doing, we wouldn't have been buying them as they hadn't really made any money for ten years and we were very profitable so stop acting like they knew more than we did. Plus, like it or not, we were now the owners and we did believe in our methods. I remember one company about the size of WM where the majority of managers just didn't understand how unsuccessful they'd been. Ridiculously, they even had divisional financial statements showing profits as corporate expenses were not allocated to the divisions and just added in at the top.

That's a real dilemma to try to figure out how to tell the people of WM that you've failed, but now we want you to join us and help us figure out solutions so we can now all succeed.

I would think L Catterton bought them thinking something like this. WM is dominant in their industry which is large. With their volume, we feel we can be profitable and successful. However, we know it will require significant changes. We don't have all the answers but we're good enough business people to get them and figure them out.

 

[FWT]

Quite a while ago when GE was a King in business and had lots of good business people, they acquired Montgomery Ward.

They could not fix it. They were pretty good business people back then.

After they owned it they admitted they didn't understand what they bought. What they bought was a store credit card business with a retailer attached. They thought they were buying a store that had a credit card business attached. Those were their words.

My take: a good business person with a knowledge of the field of both retailing and boating will beat someone with just one of those skill sets. Yeah a good retailing exec CAN do it. He starts from behind in not knowing the niche and not knowing whose voice in the company to listen to. With the owner looking closely over the shoulder. Tough assignment.

 

[psneeld]

One huge mistake is thinking most TFers are your average boaters.

 

[dannc]

...
...

It got me thinking. What if WM had a way to track what each customer asked for, and whether or not they got what they came in for? There's an old saying in management; you get what you measure. I wonder what metrics WM is tracking.

Which is what got me thinking.

The associates in many stores already carry phones or tablets. In WM, there are a number of computer terminals around the store.

What if there was an app which tracked some very simple metrics, like what the customer asked for and what (if anything) they ended up buying?
...

It does not have to be that complicated to track what they are loosing.

All any retail store has to do is put a counter on the door(s). At the end of the, day divide the number of times the door has been opened by 2 and you have a pretty good idea of how many people came into the store.

The store knows how many items were purchased, how much was spent and by how many people.

Those number tell quite a bit including how many people came into the business and bought nothing. To me that would be a key metric. If lots of people are leaving the business without spending money, you have a problem. If the number of people leaving the business without spending money is increasing, you have a really big problem.

Tracking that a potential customer ask for something that was not in stock, knowing how often that happened and what was not in stock would be a good thing to know, and simple to program. I personally, as mentioned earlier, have gone into too many stores, too many times to not find what should be in stock, so I just leave and order online. I don't ask an employee for the item, because it is obviously not in stock so they would not have a way to track it. But a simple counter on the door would show that loss.

Later,
Dan

 

[BandB]

But a simple counter on the door would show that loss.

Later,
Dan

No, the counter only shows the number of people entering and not buying. Doesn't tell you why. Doesn't tell you if they were simply window shopping or looking for something. You can capture those who requested something you didn't have if you wish, but not all those who simply didn't find what they wanted or found the store unattractive or didn't like the sales person. Surveys are a good vehicle. Find the boater and survey them, including those who have never bought from you. Now, another reason I believe in having events is gathering information. First, they pull non customers in. Second, however, you can register for drawings and prizes and those registrations give you names of potential customers to go after. Give them coupons. Survey them. Even without events, you could have drawings available for those who enter the store but events get you more people.

 

[FWT]

I am just wondering out loud here.

I am not an expert on Cabelas. And have not been in one at all since they were bought. But I do remember when they were younger and growing. Friends who were hunters would get together a group in the off-season to make a pilgrimage to a super-store 2-3 hours away. When I later went in one I understood. It was like Christmas shopping for outdoor stuff. All of the essentials, lots of non-essential "toys", good selection, reasonable prices. You couldn't walk out without picking up stuff you needed as well as stuff you didn't need but just wanted.

Fewer bigger super-stores may not be an achievable direction coming from a position of weakness with a damaged brand.

The WM stores I have been in seem to just be wrong. Too big to be a niche chandlery, and not staffed to be that either. Too small to carry an assortment in all categories.

They probably can't get there but I'm thinking a super-store approach would work. Not as the source to pick up a few needed washers. The place to go to shop between options of stuff, make the pick and buy. A destination.

Just musings.

 

[mvweebles]

I am just wondering out loud here.



I am not an expert on Cabelas. And have not been in one at all since they were bought. But I do remember when they were younger and growing. Friends who were hunters would get together a group in the off-season to make a pilgrimage to a super-store 2-3 hours away. When I later went in one I understood. It was like Christmas shopping for outdoor stuff. All of the essentials, lots of non-essential "toys", good selection, reasonable prices. You couldn't walk out without picking up stuff you needed as well as stuff you didn't need but just wanted.



Fewer bigger super-stores may not be an achievable direction coming from a position of weakness with a damaged brand.



The WM stores I have been in seem to just be wrong. Too big to be a niche chandlery, and not staffed to be that either. Too small to carry an assortment in all categories.



They probably can't get there but I'm thinking a super-store approach would work. Not as the source to pick up a few needed washers. The place to go to shop between options of stuff, make the pick and buy. A destination.



Just musings.

About 10 years ago I was up in New England. I made heroic measures to do two things. Mystic Seaport; and Defender.

Peter

 

[Frosty]

Not sure that it matters whether the CEO is a boat owner. Does the CEO of an airline need to be a pilot to run a successful company?

In case you are replying to me, I didn't post that because I thought the CEO should be a boat owner. It was in reply to a previous post in reply to a previous post. There was probably too large a gap by the time I posted.

To recap (not that it was all that exciting), a link was posted to an article about the new CEO of West Marine that was about five paragraphs long. Someone said gee, he's not even a boater. Someone else said well we don't know that, maybe he is. Then I said it was probably a safe assumption that he is not, since a full five paragraphs was written to basically introduce him as the new CEO of West Marine, and not a whisper was said about him being a boater.

So upshot is that no, there is no need for him to be a boater. OTOH, if he were a boater, you'd think they'd have mentioned it. So while no-one's going to swear to it, it's a relatively safe assumption that he isn't (or West Marine missed a big opportunity, because how would it not be a bonus if he were everything he already is plus a boater?).


Frosty

 

[FWT]

More musings.

One high price per square ft item is electronics. They are not discounted. No one has a price advantage.

This limited sample of one (me) is having a hard time finding the right place to shop for this. I have looked hard in MD and CT. The right shop might be out there. I can’t find it, with effort. I would drive a distance to the right place. The 4 WM I have been in are definitely not it. But could be.

This is a consultative sale by someone with the expertise to answer questions.

 

[lwarden]

A big part of the survey was honing in on the sorts of purchased made in the past year and then narrowing down why or why you didn't buy from WM. In my case the programming of the survey was more interested in watersports (towable tubes, coolers, etc.) and not general boat parts or maintenance items. It's hard to tell how they narrowed that down or why they were so interested in that. One could guess more of a push to these items, SUP's etc. This would be a mistake in my estimation as there are many better online places to shop for these, Overton's, Cabelas comes to mind.

We do market surveys for our products and I know a lot of thought goes into the structure of a survey and how it adapts to the particular individuals. I'm curious if others on the board do the survey what areas the programming goes to. One thing is for sure, it's an exhaustive survey and I'm sure they will have a massive amount of data to comb through.

 

[dannc]

No, the counter only shows the number of people entering and not buying. Doesn't tell you why. Doesn't tell you if they were simply window shopping or looking for something. You can capture those who requested something you didn't have if you wish, but not all those who simply didn't find what they wanted or found the store unattractive or didn't like the sales person. Surveys are a good vehicle. Find the boater and survey them, including those who have never bought from you. Now, another reason I believe in having events is gathering information. First, they pull non customers in. Second, however, you can register for drawings and prizes and those registrations give you names of potential customers to go after. Give them coupons. Survey them. Even without events, you could have drawings available for those who enter the store but events get you more people.

If one has long term data, and see that X% of the people walk out without buying, and that percentage is increasing, the store has a problem and needs to fix it. It is an easy metric to measure.

I don't window shop and I don't know ***ANY*** people that do. They/we go to the store to BUY something. If it ain't there or the price is too high, we leave empty handed and go else where. Seeing people walk empty handed out of a store should be a big red flag and they better find out why.

Seeing an INCREASING number of people walking out empty handed means the store needs to quickly find out WHY they are not making a sale.

Funny thing is that the store that is the subject of this conversation, we have been in only a couple of times in two states. Once a year or so ago and once 20 years ago. Never bought a thing in the store. Why? They did not have what we wanted. We were not window shopping, we had a list of things to buy, they did not have it, and we walked out empty handed.

Our take away was why bother to shop at those stores? They don't have what we want. That visit was a waste of time and we won't go back. Given how many other people where walking out empty handed, I don't think we are alone. They lost an immediate sale and all future sales. We just won't waste our time with them in the future.

We don't waste our time shopping at Sears, Best Buy or West Marine because of this issue. We used to shop at Circuit City and Radio Shack. Remember them? We had stopped shopping at them years before they closed down because they did not have what we needed.

Later,
Dan

 

[danderer]

One huge mistake is thinking most TFers are your average boaters.

Absolutely.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. d. "...I don't know ***ANY*** people that do." (window shopping). I would agree that MOST men do not window shop. Women on the other hand...

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
Mr. d. "...I don't know ***ANY*** people that do." (window shopping). I would agree that MOST men do not window shop. Women on the other hand...

Wifey B: And so do men. Put them in a hardware store or in a car toys store and they will spend an hour and leave with nothing. Come into a hardware store and they might find the screws they were looking for but they'll keep looking around and come back next time and buy the EGO mower. Oh and grills. They love to window shop the grills section as well as if you have fire pits. Now I'm thinking much of WM's target audience is families and there you have four window shoppers sometimes.

Oh and phone stores, definitely big time window shopping the latest new phones.

I do not window shop. I got to buy, buy, buy, and buy.