Fuel Shock

[Seevee]

One of the reasons for the high prices is that with the shut down of American oil it has made the supply tighter forcing prices higher. We need to open more drilling areas and promote our own oil. Also, we need to keep the coal mines going to.



EV is NOT prime time and if one honestly looks at all the costs, it's not as cheap as gas, Period. And certainly not as green either. Why are 88% of new vehicles sold today gas powered? Fossil fuel will be the choice of the majority for years to come, including my cars and boats.

 

[Hippocampus]

SV wish to avoid a political argument but your post #61 isn’t true. I have significant excess production from the panels on my house roof. Currently we sell it back to the grid through a broker as we’re required to do. Net profit is currently below market. I sell power for less money than my neighbors buy power. So yes I would lose income if I used that power instead of selling it. I currently run a diesel Jeep. On the highway it’s gets 28-30 mpg. including 4by and stop and go 24mpg. It has 720m range which we make use of.
Had the financial advisor crunch the numbers. At current loss of income from not selling power we are still positive if we replace the eco diesel Jeep summit with a Ford 150 lightening even if on those occasions we need extreme range and put a genset in the bed. Been tracking it and those occasions are rare enough as to allow work arounds.
The vehicles are in the marketplace. The tech is fully prime time now. What’s not prime time is charging infrastructure where population density isn’t high. Same as with the decline in roads and bridges.
Current situation is shooting big oil in the foot. If they maintain high fuel costs they accelerate the conversion to EV. Incentives to go EV are currently high enough that as vehicles on the road timeout economically if you crunch the numbers EV is cheaper.

 

[Simi 60]

if you crunch the numbers EV is cheaper.

Depends on the miles you drive.
Didn't need to pay a financial advisor to figure that out. (-;

 

[mvweebles]

SV wish to avoid a political argument but your post #61 isn’t true. I have significant excess production from the panels on my house roof. Currently we sell it back to the grid through a broker as we’re required to do. Net profit is currently below market. I sell power for less money than my neighbors buy power. So yes I would lose income if I used that power instead of selling it. I currently run a diesel Jeep. On the highway it’s gets 28-30 mpg. including 4by and stop and go 24mpg. It has 720m range which we make use of.
Had the financial advisor crunch the numbers. At current loss of income from not selling power we are still positive if we replace the eco diesel Jeep summit with a Ford 150 lightening even if on those occasions we need extreme range and put a genset in the bed. Been tracking it and those occasions are rare enough as to allow work arounds.
The vehicles are in the marketplace. The tech is fully prime time now. What’s not prime time is charging infrastructure where population density isn’t high. Same as with the decline in roads and bridges.
Current situation is shooting big oil in the foot. If they maintain high fuel costs they accelerate the conversion to EV. Incentives to go EV are currently high enough that as vehicles on the road timeout economically if you crunch the numbers EV is cheaper.

I was recently privy to the business case for an O&G major doing the math on a fleet of 200 EV Ford F150s for inspection of their upstream operations in the Permian Basin (west Texas aka "middle of nowhere"). Business case included building their own charging stations. The business case was a no-brainer.... even for an O&G major, even in a very rural area. If that's not the cusp of "prime time"....

Peter

 

[catalinajack]

One of the reasons for the high prices is that with the shut down of American oil it has made the supply tighter forcing prices higher. We need to open more drilling areas and promote our own oil. Also, we need to keep the coal mines going to.



EV is NOT prime time and if one honestly looks at all the costs, it's not as cheap as gas, Period. And certainly not as green either. Why are 88% of new vehicles sold today gas powered? Fossil fuel will be the choice of the majority for years to come, including my cars and boats.

The fact that 88% of vehicles being sold today are fossil-fuel powered is irrelevant to whether EV is less expensive. EV vehicles have a higher upfront cost so many buyers opt for fossil-fueled.that higher upfront cost is precisely why we purchased a gas Subaru Outback with which we are averaging over 31MPG. Plus, we do long trips and we do not like the prospect of fighting for the Iimted charging stations. All that will change in a short few years.

Open more drilling? Please, then, explain why the oil industry is sitting on over 9,000 EXISTING oil leases instead of drilling. No one is stopping exploration except the industry itself.

 

[Hippocampus]

Given we need two vehicles vehicle cost is a one and done. That expense is fixed and doesn’t vary with how many miles we drive. The variable is cost per mile. For us cost per mile is less for a EV at all miles per year. We have the resources to buy EV. We flip vehicles once per decade. Sooner if our lifestyle changes and current vehicles are inadequate to lifestyle and desires. We aren’t rich compared to many we know but agree the posters here are not representative of the population at large. Initial cost is an obstacle.


Everywhere you look the old saying
“It’s expensive to be poor”plays out. Differential cost for a diesel vehicle with its longer service life c/w gasoline makes EV nearly equivalent to diesel in initial cost. But cost of ownership is less. Market is probably currently distorted but used EV is holding its value as well or better than used gas. So cost of ownership favors EV. Bigger question in terms of cost of ownership is depreciation. As the fleet converts to EV suspect residual value per dollar spent will be greater for EV than petrol. Sooner you convert economically the better. So the economically disadvantaged again takes it on the chin. As does the elderly where they will die before service life or even a significant fraction of service life is reached.

 

[catalinajack]

SV wish to avoid a political argument but your post #61 isn’t true. I have significant excess production from the panels on my house roof. Currently we sell it back to the grid through a broker as we’re required to do. Net profit is currently below market. I sell power for less money than my neighbors buy power. So yes I would lose income if I used that power instead of selling it. I currently run a diesel Jeep. On the highway it’s gets 28-30 mpg. including 4by and stop and go 24mpg. It has 720m range which we make use of.
Had the financial advisor crunch the numbers. At current loss of income from not selling power we are still positive if we replace the eco diesel Jeep summit with a Ford 150 lightening even if on those occasions we need extreme range and put a genset in the bed. Been tracking it and those occasions are rare enough as to allow work arounds.
The vehicles are in the marketplace. The tech is fully prime time now. What’s not prime time is charging infrastructure where population density isn’t high. Same as with the decline in roads and bridges.
Current situation is shooting big oil in the foot. If they maintain high fuel costs they accelerate the conversion to EV. Incentives to go EV are currently high enough that as vehicles on the road timeout economically if you crunch the numbers EV is cheaper.

Hmmm, genset in the bed of the pickup. Not a bad idea for those times extended range is needed. Food for thought in the future.

 

[catalinajack]

One of the reasons for the high prices is that with the shut down of American oil it has made the supply tighter forcing prices higher. We need to open more drilling areas and promote our own oil. Also, we need to keep the coal mines going to.



EV is NOT prime time and if one honestly looks at all the costs, it's not as cheap as gas, Period. And certainly not as green either. Why are 88% of new vehicles sold today gas powered? Fossil fuel will be the choice of the majority for years to come, including my cars and boats.

EV is not as green as fossil fuel? Preposterous!

 

[catalinajack]

I paid $6.53 for diesel last week in Rhode Island… or maybe it was Connecticut, not sure.

The price for on-road diesel in the Annapolis, MD area and Delaware has been pretty much stable for the last three weeks at about $6/ gallon. Same for 87 octane gas at around $4.90. Stay tuned.

 

[catalinajack]

Given we need two vehicles vehicle cost is a one and done. That expense is fixed and doesn’t vary with how many miles we drive. The variable is cost per mile. For us cost per mile is less for a EV.

You are a medical guy; I am ( was) an accountant. Yes, the capital cost is fixed but indeed it is a cost that cannot be ignored. If one assumes a 200,000 mile useful life - or any assumed number - for the vehicle, the cost per mile can be determined. This is basic cost accounting.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Interesting perspective in this TED talk.

I firmly believe SOME sort of alternative energy should?/will be found. Hydrogen fuel? Thorium reactors? Solar, concentrated and beamed to "receiving" stations, converted to? and thence distributed through some sort of grid? Mr. Fusion ala Back to the Future? These may be the answers BUT what is the question (of the hour)?


Modify/moderate the climate? Reduce fuel and energy costs? Perhaps a question we haven't even thought of yet.


Many, many good comments, thus far on an extremely complex subject.


Edit: I remember the introduction of CFL's (compact florescent lights) in the 80's. Save energy-which they do. Problem is the introduction of mercury into the environment. Is the solution worse than the problem?


Of FAR, FAR greater concern IMO and I've mentioned this several times, is the continuing contamination of the oceans with plastics.

 

[OldDan1943]

Driving a electric vehicle is not 'green'. You are merely relocating the source of the pollution to "outside of town".

 

[rslifkin]

Driving a electric vehicle is not 'green'. You are merely relocating the source of the pollution to "outside of town".

It depends on where your electricity comes from. Even if the fuel source were the same, larger scale power production is typically more efficient than a car-sized engine.

 

[Hippocampus]

CJ totally agree. Still, if initial cost is spread over 50k miles cost per mile is higher than if spread over 500k. But initial cost is a fixed number regardless of the initials after your name.

My concern hasn’t been mentioned. We are risk for trading dependency on one resource (oil/gas) for another ( rare earths and metals). To my knowledge there’s one mining company in the US as a potential supplier. Rest held elsewhere. Geopolitically we remain vulnerable. Major supplier for the manufacturing raw materials for panels, batteries etc. is currently in Chinese hands. We need to play the long game.

 

[Larry M]

Dear members. This thread is now headed for eventual self-destruction, so it would be good to get back on track or it will be closed. We are a boating forum and general discussions or statements that are political in nature or that reference general government policies are not allowed in ANY areas of the forum.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[koliver]

FYI Canada doesn't do the dye either.

Not so!

In fact, the pump offers "Marked gas" or "Marked diesel" for a few ¢ less than the next pump that sells unmarked.
It isn't enough of a saving to make up for the inconvenience, since I need 500l whenever I fill up my boat with diesel, and hauling in jerry cans I can only get 20 or 25l to a JC, so up to 25 JCs, or 10 separate visits to the shoreside pump.

On the gas side, I won't give up the ethanol free premium for a few ¢ off on marked "mid-grade" gas.

 

[Hippocampus]

Understand about hydroscopic nature of road pump gasoline but with outboards of recent age which are frequently used does it really make a difference? Modern 4 strokes don’t have components that would dissolve in ETOH. I think it make make sense to get avgas or other etoh free gasoline if you’re not going to use the engine for awhile but if it’s your daily driver beyond the usual additives you use is there really a concern?
I don’t trailer my dinghy or other small boats except on very rare occasions and do use marina gas but is this a real concern? Similarly I don’t live in the far north nor do high lat boating. Is summer v winter diesel mixes really an issue? We are in the northeast until hurricane season is over and may have diesel from the south or mid Atlantic states still in the tanks. To my knowledge even with no preheaters have never had gelling.

 

[Shrew]

I onboarded a little over 100 gallons of diesel in Westerly, RI last week @ 6.56/gal.

 

[CharlieO.]

Home heating oil is the same as Diesel? It is just dyed diesel?

Asking because I can buy home heating oil at the pump for about a dollar less a gallon.

My marina doesn't sell diesel, so I have no issue bringing down fuel in my two 15 gallon containers. I also have a proper transfer pump to get fuel from the containers to the tanks.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Not so!

In fact, the pump offers "Marked gas" or "Marked diesel" for a few ¢ less than the next pump that sells unmarked.
It isn't enough of a saving to make up for the inconvenience, since I need 500l whenever I fill up my boat with diesel, and hauling in jerry cans I can only get 20 or 25l to a JC, so up to 25 JCs, or 10 separate visits to the shoreside pump.

On the gas side, I won't give up the ethanol free premium for a few ¢ off on marked "mid-grade" gas.

I stand corrected. In the past Port McNeill fuel was not died. This is the only place I get Canadian fuel.

 

[rslifkin]

Home heating oil is the same as Diesel? It is just dyed diesel?

Asking because I can buy home heating oil at the pump for about a dollar less a gallon.

My marina doesn't sell diesel, so I have no issue bringing down fuel in my two 15 gallon containers. I also have a proper transfer pump to get fuel from the containers to the tanks.

Home heating oil is more or less #2 diesel. However, the additive package isn't always the same and the standards it's filtered to, etc. may also be different depending on the source, etc.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Wow this thread sure has drifted!!

 

[Socal_Cecil]

Dear members. This thread is now headed for eventual self-destruction, so it would be good to get back on track or it will be closed. We are a boating forum and general discussions or statements that are political in nature or that reference general government policies are not allowed in ANY areas of the forum.

Thanks for understanding.

I started the drift, sorry thread owner/admins. I'll be opening 2 threads. One in fuel check for alternative diesel/gas and one for cost of electric drive. The electric drive will likely have cost data from cars which is available more readily but I know I watch the data hoping to add an electric kicker for the boat when it makes sense financially (ultimately avoiding fuel costs).

Please try to avoid politics or policy arguments and stick with strictly financial and actual cost and use issues. No hypotheticals or moral judgements.

 

[bountyhunter44]

I just took on 200g diesel in Ensenada via barrels from the local Pemex station, around $4.25/gal. Breakfast this morning was truly outstanding shrimp tacos - around $7 for my wife and I. Might be worth the trip for you.

Peter

I'lll check our local docks today and give you a price here in PV.

 

[DD788Snipe]

?????

 

[bountyhunter44]

Two more Southern California based yachts recently relocated from Southern California to Puerto Vallarta due to "Fuel Shock" and general inflation in California.

Here are our fuel prices as of 6-15-2022:

Marina Vallarta:
$27.48 (pesos per liter) $5.38 (US) per gallon. Bulk discount for 1000+ gallons $26.76 (pesos per liter) $5.24 (US) per gallon.

Marina Riviera Nayarit at La Cruz de Huancaxtle:
$28.29 (pesos per liter) $5.54 (US) per gallon.

 

[Pelican1987]

Chincoteague, VA prices

5.74 at the local gas stations, 5.99 at the marina, and 5.14 is what I was quoted from Pepup.