Fuel Cost Changing Cruising Plans?
- Thread starter Alaskan Sea-Duction
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
CharlieO.
Guru
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2020
- Messages
- 1,810
- Location
- Lake Champlain Vermont, USA
- Vessel Name
- Luna C.
- Vessel Make
- 1977 Marine Trader 34DC
I pumped about 50 gallons out of my port tank prior to removal, I was going to give away the fuel so I could reuse the 3 twenty gallon containers to pump out the starboard tank. 
I opted to get more containers for the starboard tank pump out instead.
Does that count as a fuel related change in plans?
We just got delivery of #2 at the house $2.75 gallon. Glad we locked in at that price last summer.
I opted to get more containers for the starboard tank pump out instead.
Does that count as a fuel related change in plans?
We just got delivery of #2 at the house $2.75 gallon. Glad we locked in at that price last summer.
Last edited:
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
Fortunately in North America we are with sufficient petro reserves and refining capacity to weather the storm. Couple that with rising prices and commensurate use decreases we in NA will not have to shorten miles traveled by air road or water unless we choose to individually do so.
But yes, petro is a commodity and price increases will occur due to global travails and European petro shortages. On a side note, Nickel is immediately becoming a worse global shortage situation than oil. EV battery potential owners take note.
But yes, petro is a commodity and price increases will occur due to global travails and European petro shortages. On a side note, Nickel is immediately becoming a worse global shortage situation than oil. EV battery potential owners take note.
I paid $5.25 for diesel in Brighton, Michigan this morning.
I listen to Peter Zeihan on youtube most days. If you do not know of him he wrote a book called accidental superpower and is a highly respected expert on geopolitics and geoeconomics. If he is somewhat accurate we will see $6-8 gasoline very soon which would put diesel in the $7-9 on land. He is projecting that this will last for quite some time. If Ukraine cannot get its crops planted in April and the other major users of fertilizer imports do not get enough fertilizer to expect reasonable yields, we are going to see world famine this year. One would think that this situation could be reversed and things returned to normal in a reasonable amount of time. No it cannot. The genie is out of the bottle and the world has changed for the foreseeable future. Oh, our alternative fuel future has been set back considerably as well. I will not discuss politics, but you can figure this out for yourself. Look at some of Peters recent videos on youtube, or on his website that just sends you to youtube. Interesting stuff and I pray he is a complete idiot. He is not.
I listen to Peter Zeihan on youtube most days. If you do not know of him he wrote a book called accidental superpower and is a highly respected expert on geopolitics and geoeconomics. If he is somewhat accurate we will see $6-8 gasoline very soon which would put diesel in the $7-9 on land. He is projecting that this will last for quite some time. If Ukraine cannot get its crops planted in April and the other major users of fertilizer imports do not get enough fertilizer to expect reasonable yields, we are going to see world famine this year. One would think that this situation could be reversed and things returned to normal in a reasonable amount of time. No it cannot. The genie is out of the bottle and the world has changed for the foreseeable future. Oh, our alternative fuel future has been set back considerably as well. I will not discuss politics, but you can figure this out for yourself. Look at some of Peters recent videos on youtube, or on his website that just sends you to youtube. Interesting stuff and I pray he is a complete idiot. He is not.
hollywood8118
Guru
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 2,393
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- " OTTER "
- Vessel Make
- Ocean Alexander Europa 40
The Europeans that frequent TF must think we Americans are a bunch of whiners to bitch about $5 diesel.
We are all in the same boat to speak in regards to the fact our boats are not a necessity but a choice we have made.
Slow down a bit, don't go as far as you might of with cheap fuel, we can all live with it. There are too many variables for the talking heads ( you tube or news folks) to have any idea what the future will bring.
HOLLYWOOD
We are all in the same boat to speak in regards to the fact our boats are not a necessity but a choice we have made.
Slow down a bit, don't go as far as you might of with cheap fuel, we can all live with it. There are too many variables for the talking heads ( you tube or news folks) to have any idea what the future will bring.
HOLLYWOOD
And they are correct.
We plan on cruising the East Coast of the US this year. We cruised Europe last year. We plan on about the same fuel cost this year as last.
I would agree to some extent, but Peter is talking facts and not political partisan nonsense. His discussion is limited to historical reference and current facts on the ground. Within some margin for error he will be correct. Saying what will happen with any specificity is probably not going to happen. Recognizing history, current trends, and basic scientific realities is usually pretty good thinking. As long as humans cannot overcome their basic programmed instincts the world is in for some increasingly difficult times. We have failed to evolve beyond our instincts as a group. The difference between a human and a chimpanzee is one half of one chromosome pairing. Our evolution and time are on a collision course and we need to speed up quickly if we are to avoid it.
Simi 60
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,482
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Make
- Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Might be the push we need to sort out the empty dirt house and get it tenanted.
It's been six years, I think we can safely say the cruising life is working for us and we ain't going back.
It's been six years, I think we can safely say the cruising life is working for us and we ain't going back.
Last edited:
Lostsailor13
Senior Member
Put 200 gallons on in November at 2.70 a gallon,last month topped off my 500 gallon tanks with the last 100 gallons at 3.40 a gallon,my cruising plans will not be affected,advantage of having boat in water all year,that gives me a range of over 2500 miles
Last edited:
mvweebles
Guru
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 7,780
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Weebles
- Vessel Make
- 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Years ago I saw an interview of the guy who invented the Ginsu Knife, arguably the first infomercial. When asked if he would do anything different, he said "I would have charged $19.99 instead of $19.95. I would not have lost a single sale and it would have made me an extra $50,000."
I guess a small number multiplied by a large number adds up over time.
Peter
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,123
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Aha, I guess that explains why fuel prices here in Australia, (and everywhere else I suspect), always add 0.9cents to their price signs. It infuriates me, but it's also true one tends to just remember the whole number, and not the final .9
Hippocampus
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,182
- Location
- Plymouth
- Vessel Name
- Hippocampus
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 42
Will effect one group of boaters.
There’s a group of snowbirds who travel seasonally to avoid cold and hurricane season. For some the migration is obligatory as they have no dirt dwelling. Wet storage in the northeast is very hard to find. For others the costs of seasonal storage and associated costs and lost of usage makes the migration worthwhile. For these folks (and I’m one) fuel costs are a very meaningful concern.
Think there will be many for whom the migration is discretionary and they won’t go. For others it will mean significant belt tightening .
There’s an ongoing ripple effect. Fertilizer costs will go up. Food prices will follow. Ukraine is a major wheat exporter(Ukraine and Russia supply 1/3 of the world’s wheat). No crop this year. Or crop that can’t leave Russia .They also export cooking oils and veggies. Upper mid west and Canada are having a rough weather year. These markets like oil are international. Given gouging and only 4 packing companies meat will be ridiculous. International shipping is already quite disturbed so supply chains effected. That will get worse as more ports close to Russian ships +/or crews. Both cost and availability are already effected. So between unresolved effects from C19 and current ripple effects from the war expecting 10-15% inflation isn’t unreasonable. That will effect boating. Fuel costs are just one of many costs involved in boating that will climb.
There’s a group of snowbirds who travel seasonally to avoid cold and hurricane season. For some the migration is obligatory as they have no dirt dwelling. Wet storage in the northeast is very hard to find. For others the costs of seasonal storage and associated costs and lost of usage makes the migration worthwhile. For these folks (and I’m one) fuel costs are a very meaningful concern.
Think there will be many for whom the migration is discretionary and they won’t go. For others it will mean significant belt tightening .
There’s an ongoing ripple effect. Fertilizer costs will go up. Food prices will follow. Ukraine is a major wheat exporter(Ukraine and Russia supply 1/3 of the world’s wheat). No crop this year. Or crop that can’t leave Russia .They also export cooking oils and veggies. Upper mid west and Canada are having a rough weather year. These markets like oil are international. Given gouging and only 4 packing companies meat will be ridiculous. International shipping is already quite disturbed so supply chains effected. That will get worse as more ports close to Russian ships +/or crews. Both cost and availability are already effected. So between unresolved effects from C19 and current ripple effects from the war expecting 10-15% inflation isn’t unreasonable. That will effect boating. Fuel costs are just one of many costs involved in boating that will climb.
Last edited:
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
H
Yes these US East Coast migratory boaters will pay more for fuel. But not all is due to the U war. How much more is a combination of Government and US private industry coming up with an agreeable plan to open the North American spigots. There is a large vocal "important" group that is quite happy to see petro prices double or triple.
These are complicated times with many agendas at play. Caught in the crossfire are we boating petro users, farmers, truckers etc. Maybe your previous sail boat wasn't so bad after all given the new situations.
Yes these US East Coast migratory boaters will pay more for fuel. But not all is due to the U war. How much more is a combination of Government and US private industry coming up with an agreeable plan to open the North American spigots. There is a large vocal "important" group that is quite happy to see petro prices double or triple.
These are complicated times with many agendas at play. Caught in the crossfire are we boating petro users, farmers, truckers etc. Maybe your previous sail boat wasn't so bad after all given the new situations.
NEtrawler58
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
- Messages
- 233
Sunchaser, I agree with you. People are quick to forget that during the past year prices have been rising steadily. The war is causing a recent spike for sure, but that is not the single reason that prices will be higher this summer than last.
mvweebles
Guru
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 7,780
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Weebles
- Vessel Make
- 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Non-inflation adjusted pump-price of highway diesel since 1994 (SOURCE HERE). Second chart is gas prices and only through 2015, but is inflation adjusted to give reference of true costs. To say price has been lumpy over the years is an understatement. Now, there's no telling where this goes, but I have to wonder if, for cruising, prices are a shock-to-the-system that will be absorbed in short order. Meaning, short term impact only.
Even if running 5000 nms per year may mean 2000 gals of diesel, but also means many oil changes and other maintenance items that are all relatively expensive on a boat vs a car. I don't mean to minimize the overall impact of high diesel costs and it certainly will have an affect on driving/cruising. But I don't think it will be as catastrophic as many forecast. For the most part, people who have boats like these will find high diesel prices an annoyance vs a barrier.
Peter
PUMP PRICE HWY DIESEL
INFLATION ADJUSTED (GREEN LINE) FOR GASOLINE PRICES
Even if running 5000 nms per year may mean 2000 gals of diesel, but also means many oil changes and other maintenance items that are all relatively expensive on a boat vs a car. I don't mean to minimize the overall impact of high diesel costs and it certainly will have an affect on driving/cruising. But I don't think it will be as catastrophic as many forecast. For the most part, people who have boats like these will find high diesel prices an annoyance vs a barrier.
Peter
PUMP PRICE HWY DIESEL
INFLATION ADJUSTED (GREEN LINE) FOR GASOLINE PRICES
lwarden
Guru
Agreed, there is also a significant opportunity to do some profit taking, and that's what makes this worse in my opinion. We are seeing this from major corporations all across the many products. This is happening during high inflation where they are taking advantage of "supply chain" and "high demand" excuses to reap higher profits. This appears to be a major factor in driving inflation.
Looking over the past month crude has jumped approximately 20% ,yet prices in my area are up closer to 35% for diesel. We are held hostage in Cali for fuel, I get that, but seeing the oil companies and refineries getting even higher profits at a time like this just burns me.
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
IW
Theoretically a 20% increase at the well head will easily be 30% or more at the pump. The reason for this all the energy related operating costs after the well head have gone up too, such as those for over the water shipping, trucking, pumping, refining, movement to the end user etc.
But of course some price gouging is going on, everywhere. Boat prices, nickel (an amazing current story) or autos are other good examples. Bottom line, open the petro spigots in NA and the at the pump prices will drop quickly.
Last edited:
Portage_Bay
Guru
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,674
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Pacific Myst
- Vessel Make
- West Bay 4500
Back to the topic question. "Fuel costs changing cruising plans". Like all here the dramatic increase in costs has caused me to think about my 2022 cruising plans. As of today the only thing that will change is what I consider my normal cruising speed. At a LWL of 40' my calculated hull speed of 1.34 * square root of LWL = 8.47 kts. While 1.34 is a factor I often see it is not hard science and in fact is not a good factor for my boat which at that speed makes a sizeable bow and stern wave. Slowing to about 7.5 give me much better economy. I may slow even more if costs continue to climb but I won't stay tied to the dock.
2020 was of course the 1st Covid year and being a Washington state cruiser with Canada closed I was limited to Puget Sound and the San Juans. 2021 was a bust due to non-boat issues we didn't get off the dock much. I won't let fuel prices keep me at the dock for another season.
I try to keep in mind that the prices of 2020 and to an extent 2021 were due to covid hammering the global economy.
2020 was of course the 1st Covid year and being a Washington state cruiser with Canada closed I was limited to Puget Sound and the San Juans. 2021 was a bust due to non-boat issues we didn't get off the dock much. I won't let fuel prices keep me at the dock for another season.
I try to keep in mind that the prices of 2020 and to an extent 2021 were due to covid hammering the global economy.
OP
OP
Alaskan Sea-Duction
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2012
- Messages
- 8,084
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Alaskan Sea-Duction
- Vessel Make
- 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
O C Diver
Guru
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 13,317
- Location
- Fort Myers, Florida
- Vessel Name
- End Of The Line
- Vessel Make
- Trinka 10 Dinghy
Motor oil availability has become an issue also. Depending on the brand you prefer availability has been spotty and prices are starting to climb. I use Rotella T4 15W/40. Availability has been spotty this winter. Rumors have it that manufacturer's are having a hard time sourcing enough materials for the additive packages. Don't know if this is true, but now have enough oil and filters for this year's cruising, and then some.
Ted
Ted
rslifkin
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2019
- Messages
- 8,005
- Location
- Rochester, NY
- Vessel Name
- Hour Glass
- Vessel Make
- Chris Craft 381 Catalina
I've found the same. Took me a while to find a few gallons of Delo 15W-40 to replace what I used for oil changes in the fall. And when I first found it, the price was crazy, but I did eventually find some at a decent price. I also ended up switching to the semi-syn version last year as for whatever reason it has been cheaper than the conventional dino version.
Rsysol
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2011
- Messages
- 108
- Vessel Name
- Antipodes
- Vessel Make
- Yachtsmiths
greatguy00
Member
I was fortunate to refuel at the end of last season, hopefully mine should last till the end of this boating season...
mickand
Senior Member
I re-pitched my props over 3,000 hours ago which bettered my fuel consumption by over 1/2mpg. I don't buy into any of the 'experts' views on running diesels at 1800rpm or their other words of wisdom so please don't supply me with any. I've been running 2 x 120 Lehmans at 1050rpm at 6.4kts for over 25,000 miles and get 3.3 statute miles per gallon.
On my trip up to New England this year, I'll be running at 800rpm at 5kts to mitigate fuel costs. Who knows - I may get up to 4mpg.
On my trip up to New England this year, I'll be running at 800rpm at 5kts to mitigate fuel costs. Who knows - I may get up to 4mpg.
Attachments
Hippocampus
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,182
- Location
- Plymouth
- Vessel Name
- Hippocampus
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 42
Open the drilling no impact for probably a decade. Infrastructure for refining and transport has taken a major hit due to weather, regulations and market forces starting even before Covid. Refineries and distribution systems need a major reworking. Probably need to be moved and significantly weather harden. Some companies playing the long game factoring in decreased use for domestic heating and for transportation down the road. Read their prospectus. Interesting stuff. Their calculus has probably changed as regards long term capital investment in development as well as infrastructure. They look at 30-50yrs. out. Only the French haven’t canceled natural gas exploration/development in Russia. Shell, BP and the US companies are out of there. Russia has the GNP of Italy. Don’t expect them to do major development for quite some time to come. US reserves are a pittance c/w demand. May be needed to keep our military functioning. Would wait and see what further brutality trumps friend Putin does before draining reserves. Both parties are complicit going back to Johnson. Backward tax structure and absence of meaningful competition.
Yes, agree the western world made a contract with devils (middle east monarchies and Russia). Now see the consequences. If Saudis and OPEC opened their output it could absorb Russias decrease NOW and infrastructure to handle it is already available.
Yes, agree the western world made a contract with devils (middle east monarchies and Russia). Now see the consequences. If Saudis and OPEC opened their output it could absorb Russias decrease NOW and infrastructure to handle it is already available.
Last edited:
Rich wilmer
Veteran Member
8.00 is canadian port gread , ther fuel is Canadian not bitin! And i sill have 1500 gallons from last season& polishers
