Disney rescue of 4.

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Disney cruise ship rescues four people from sinking catamaran

 

[Mac2]

"escape hatch failure" I've seen so many YouTube videos with escape hatch issues that I'm beginning to wonder if it causes more problems then helps. Would love to see the stats on this.

 

[psneeld]

A leak around a port/escape hatch caused a boat to be abandoned/sink?

Must have been a total failure...not "just a leak".....

 

[Mambo42]

I have seen quite a few videos on Youtube where the owners closed off the escape hatches due to the risk of being swept away in heavy seas. I understand that you want to have some sort of escape from the boat, but I never understood why that had to open up below the boat. I have never seen a monohull or motoryacht with an escape hatch below the water line or on the port or stbd side of the boat.
Seems to me that the escape hatches in catamarans are built with the idea that the boat will flip over. But how many catamarans flip over on a yearly basis ?
I think i would rather have an escape hatch to the deck, so that in case of fire I can get out of the boat. With that in mind I can understand why owners are simply taking the hatches away and sealing them forever.

 

[psneeld]

A common thought here on TF seems that a problem with even a one in a bazillion chance of happening needs to be addressed for your boat to be truly safe.

Guess the lower escape hatch is to satisfy that worry in the similar sailing crowd..... there has been more than just a few cats turned turtle in my memory bank.

 

[mvweebles]

A common thought here on TF seems that a problem with even a one in a bazillion chance of happening needs to be addressed

I've heard such hand-wringing lovingly called "meteorite insurance."

Peter

 

[Dougcole]

Are we quite sure that the cruise ship didn't wake or ram them prior to rescue, necessitating the need for said rescue? That seems much more in line with cruise ship behavior to me.

Or perhaps the cat's escape hatch was knocked loose when it sailed through the giant line of plastic trash and sewage that the cruise ship had just discharged?

 

[Blissboat]

Offshore multihull sailors are very familiar with the story of Phil Weld, who in 1976 was crossing the Atlantic west to east when his trimaran "Gulf Streamer" was capsized by a rogue wave. When a multihull flips, it stays flipped. Weld and a crew member eventually had to resort to cutting their way out of the cabin. For five days they survived on the drifting, upside-down boat before being rescued by a passing ship. Among the lessons learned and applied, Weld's next boat (named "Rogue Wave") featured an escape hatch.

Phil Weld went on to win the 1980 Observer Singlehanded Transatlantic Race (OSTAR) in another custom trimaran named "Moxie." He was 65 years old at the time, and the first American ever to win the OSTAR. "My idea of a good voyage is an uneventful one," he said.

Amen to that!

 

[psneeld]

Are we quite sure that the cruise ship didn't wake or ram them prior to rescue, necessitating the need for said rescue? That seems much more in line with cruise ship behavior to me.

Or perhaps the cat's escape hatch was knocked loose when it sailed through the giant line of plastic trash and sewage that the cruise ship had just discharged?

Waking them probably is no worse than open ocean crossing weather at some point....should be hardly a threat to the escape hatch.

Ramming them? possible but the sparse info covers a popped escape hatch or similar...probably not a ramming.

Trash? Unless they were dumping cargo cotainers....popping an inside of the hulls escape hatch seems improbable to me. I am not sure as what kind of "trash" jettisoned would rip off or puncture one of these escape hatches.

This is one story where I think there is more to the story...so really anything goes.

 

[slowgoesit]

I would think that anyone doing a crossing like that would have a piece of plywood, some deck screws, a cordless drill and a couple of tubes of 4200 available for such an occurrence . . . Heck, get the leak sealed, and even if the bilge pumps were inop, you could bail with a bucket and could get the water out.

 

[hollywood8118]

Or perhaps the cat's escape hatch was knocked loose when it sailed through the giant line of plastic trash and sewage that the cruise ship had just discharged?

What kind of BS rhetoric are you attempting to discharge yourself ? Do you have any knowledge of the extent the cruise lines go to recycle and collect and store trash until its put ashore?. I'm not a fan of the cruise industry but they seem to do a decent job of disposing of their trash. In the past this was not the case but they have made a lot of changes in the way they collect/recycle/store and dispose of trash and sewage. Never had any desire to get on a big cruise ship .. but I can see the attraction of people without the ways, means and desire to experience some of what we get to see as boat owners/voyagers. The reality is they have the same right to enjoy it as we do. I would guess we as boaters dump more untreated sewage p/p than cruise ships or a lot of shore side municipalities than the current cruise ships do.
Hollywood

 

[hollywood8118]

In the past all time with I have spent on big offshore cats it is a bit disconcerting to look at those escape hatches and watch the sea at times completely cover them. With the thousands of cats out there without them that have no issues there must have been another contributing factor in this indecent. If they are recessed /properly installed, and maintained it shouldn't be a failure point.
Hollywood

 

[CaptTom]

Good discussion over on sister site cruisersforum. And of course some of the same debate.

Apparently there were some rules requiring these hatches for something - maybe it was ocean racing or some specific countries rules. Anyway, apparently they're not a requirement, but as stated above some feel safer having them. It's one of the arguments the mono- vs. multi-hull sailors always have. If a mono is knocked down they often come back up. A cat will never "recover" once flipped. I try to stay out of those kinds of arguments, being "just" a stinkpot.

 

[Mambo42]

Currently there is a Youtube video of a channel, forgot the name though, stumbled on the video. They were sailing the pacific, in a catamaran, encountered bad weather and there life raft, which was in a sort of a hold below the stern deck was ripped off the boat. The only thing they had left was the hatch and in bad weather they had to try to keep the hatch down or otherwise the stern would flood.
I have no idea if this is a new boat or an old one, but having your life raft taken away by a wave below the boat is pretty serious. Also have no idea if it was designed like this or that they came up with that idea. If it was designed like that I cannot say it was calculated very well. And if those hatches are designed in a similar fashion I understand why some sailors just close them off.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I get the escape hatch thing and that it needs to be accessible if needed. But below waterline?

That's giving Murphy lots of access. How about centerline on deck? If cat how about 2 of them?

 

[psneeld]

I think the hatch is a two-purpose item.... escape when flipped, but also there to reenter as survival training usually suggests the mother ship is the best platform to survive in.

Thus needs to be above the waterline right side up and upside down. A near impossible task on some cats I would think.

 

[mvweebles]

Currently there is a Youtube video of a channel, forgot the name though, stumbled on the video. They were sailing the pacific, in a catamaran, encountered bad weather and there life raft, which was in a sort of a hold below the stern deck was ripped off the boat. The only thing they had left was the hatch and in bad weather they had to try to keep the hatch down or otherwise the stern would flood.
I have no idea if this is a new boat or an old one, but having your life raft taken away by a wave below the boat is pretty serious. Also have no idea if it was designed like this or that they came up with that idea. If it was designed like that I cannot say it was calculated very well. And if those hatches are designed in a similar fashion I understand why some sailors just close them off.

I believe that was Gone with the Wynns. Was a couple years ago - pre Covid? Was quite startling to see a large hole in their aft deck. I forget exactly, but was probably a 45-ish foot Lagoon. I believe they repaired it without the inset cabinet for a liferaft.

Peter

 

[JayB]

How about: "Escape Hatch Tool Inside" clearly marked on cabinet exposed if/when cat inverted? Tool is hard wired battery powered saw designed to cut through hull anywhere you want with instructions and light. Even have dotted cut line for the timid in hanging lockers? Sleep easy, stay dry unless the Nautilus is after you.

 

[Dougcole]

What kind of BS rhetoric are you attempting to discharge yourself ? Do you have any knowledge of the extent the cruise lines go to recycle and collect and store trash until its put ashore?. I'm not a fan of the cruise industry but they seem to do a decent job of disposing of their trash. In the past this was not the case but they have made a lot of changes in the way they collect/recycle/store and dispose of trash and sewage. Never had any desire to get on a big cruise ship .. but I can see the attraction of people without the ways, means and desire to experience some of what we get to see as boat owners/voyagers. The reality is they have the same right to enjoy it as we do. I would guess we as boaters dump more untreated sewage p/p than cruise ships or a lot of shore side municipalities than the current cruise ships do.
Hollywood

Carnival Cruise To Pay $20 Million After Admitting To Dumping Plastic Waste In The Bahamas

In a long history of plastic waste and oil dumping, Carnival Corporation, the largest cruise company in the world, admitted its subsidiary dumped plastic overboard in the Bahamas.

www.forbes.com

I was being (mostly) hyperbolic to make a somewhat humorous point, unsuccessfully apparently, but there you go.
Carnival was fined $20 million for doing it in 2019. They admitted to a long history of illegal dumping. Perhaps they have changed their ways, but color me skeptical as the cruise industry is one of the most unethical in the world.

I had an employee for a few years, a native Brazilian, who worked in the cruise industry before he came to work for us. He had some hair raising stories of how they treat employees from second and third world countries. It’s very close to slave labor. That exactly how he described it: “slavery.” He had a work visa for the US, but they wouldn't allow him to get off the ship in a US port. He did it anyway and they stiffed him on months of back pay. They do business primarily in America with an American customer base but are not subject to our labor laws.

What the cruise industry has done to Key West, San Juan and parts of the Bahamas is gross. I was hoping that they would all fail after Covid, but no such luck. Just like rota-virus, they always come back.

To be completely transparent, as a multi generation Floridian I am grumpy about these sorts of things. I have seen so much damage wrought to my home (my family on my dad's mother's side has been here since before the civil war) by overcrowding, too much population growth and over development that it makes me grumpy and sick. I also wish that Disney would close down and/or move somewhere else taking all of their associated visitors and employees with them.

Sorry if I ruined your day.