Designing & Building Hammerhead

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If you build a trawler out of aluminium, it will be less heavy, Mako. ;)

I see the smile, but to respond anyway Edwin, personally I think trawlers should be as heavy as possible. Steel is ideal and AL is too light. For your vessel AL is perfect. Different animals.
 
"using parts that should be easy to find in most places in the world"

I think that if the intention were worldwide cruising and if one were handy (you'd better be!) then it might be best to assembly your own. A dead simple "dumb" unit without microprocessors. Carry spares of everything. Not just about saving money, but saving hassle also.
...

Yes, but building your own means you have to figure out the parts, what to buy, put it together and then debug the mess,errr, system. :rofl:

Back in the day, when I still had a desktop, well tower PCs, I would look to build my own but never did. Why? The local PC store, or even PC companies, could send me what I wanted for less money and I did not have to use up my time buying, collecting and then building the system. The last tower I bought was from a local store and they used the exact parts I wanted and the system cost far less than what it would cost me to buy the parts.

Rich's water maker linked above is like the local PC store. He has units that go from simple to complex made out of parts one should be able to get in many places. I don't think I could source the pieces as cheap as his units. I sure do not want to spend time figuring out what I need to build the system, buy the parts, assemble and then debug. Rich has already done that work. :D Better yet, Rich has YouTube videos on how to assemble his equipment, trouble shoot problems and make repairs. He is also available to provide help if needed. :thumb:

Later,
Dan
 
Dan I agree, having a small sink in your engine room is a great idea. I had a fresh water hose and really liked that feature, but being able to wash your hands and other things would be great
 
Interior design

Here's a first rendering of the interior of the main salon and galley. A concept still. Colors are "off" quite a bit and there needs to be some additional detailing, but overall I think it gives a nice first impression ...

Updates in a few days.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika
 

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The light green should be closer to grey, the kitchen counter top should be dark brown. TV folds down from the ceiling. The two seats near the steering position can be moved to face in the direction the boat is heading.

Regards, Edwin.
 
Another concept. Colors are better now, but there is still some work needed. Thought I'd share anyhow. More pics (and updates) towards the end of the week.

Regards, Edwin.
 

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Another concept. Colors are better now, but there is still some work needed. Thought I'd share anyhow. More pics (and updates) towards the end of the week.

Regards, Edwin.

Maybe it's just me, I don't see a lot of storage in the galley area. For extended voyages there is an obvious need for food storage, but there's also a desire for more than the barest minimum in preparation equipment. Having additional storage dosen't obliterate you to use it. Also, the more difficult something is to access, the less likely you are to use it.

Ted
 
Edwin is that just a bar in the saloon and there’s a full galley belowdecks?

Also, how do you provide a completely dark environment in the pilot house with an open floor plan - perhaps a black curtain?
 
That's the galley, gents! We wanted living, steering, and cooking on the same floor and in the same space. The galley offers a freezer, a fridge, an oven, a dish washer, and a four burner stove (electric). To create space and maximum visibility, we dished high-placed kitchen cabinets. Storage is made available in the galley, under the sofa's, and in the forepeak of the boat. When you decent from the saloon forward, you have a day head and shower to the left. To the right will be additional freezer capacity and the wash/dry unit.

Regards, Edwin.
 
Here's another picture. With the sofa in the forward facing steering position.

Regards, Edwin.
 

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First concept rendering of the master bedroom! A lot of detailing is still missing, but I hope the basic lay-out as well as nice and airy space get over.

Regards, Edwin.
 

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More renderings of the master bedroom!

End of this week the second design phase will be done.

We have been working on the website.

Changing the name to Liquid Management!

Lots of things happening behind the scenes. Updates soon!

Regards, Edwin.
 

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Concept design guest room

Here's a concept 2d drawing of the guest cabin, towards the front of the ship. We enlarged this cabin to a total length of 3.5 meters. A meter or three feet more than before.

The room in front of the guest cabin is for storage of fenders, etc. It is no longer connected (internally) to the guest cabin, giving us more options to play with the layout.

It features a double queen sized bed. The sofa can be turned into two more bunks, by lifting the backrest into a horizontal position. It sleeps 2 to 4 people and has access to its own shower and head. The head also serves as the day head. The master bedroom, to the aft section of the ship, has its own private shower and head.

Regards, Edwin.
 

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Should there be hand holds?


Assume there is storage under the seats and bed?


Looking good.


Later,
Dan
 
4 people in the guest cabin? It might help to put some parameters on how long you plan to have them. A couple with their 2 kids would be really tight. That closet with a couple of drawers would be good for 2, but 4?

If I'm understanding the guest head correctly, that's a shower opposite corner from the sink. There's exceedingly little room between the shower and the head, also the shower and the sink. I hope when the architect renders 3 dimensional images, included are things like towel racks, places for toiletries, and storage of soft luggage.

To be blunt, that's crews quarters not a guest cabin for a son or daughter's family.

Ted
 
Yep, storage under the bed and sofa. And hand hold rails.

Thanks for the kudos, Dan!

Regards, Edwin.
 
Net and rope cutters ... anyone any suggestions?

Regards, Edwin.
 
Net and rope cutters ... anyone any suggestions?

Regards, Edwin.

I've had both Spurs on my current boat and Shaft Shark on a couple previous boats. I'd stay away from Spurs. Based on side by side reviews, they are comparable in performance. However, there are more moving parts on Spurs, they require anodes and ongoing maintenance, and there will be a steel part screwed to your aluminum strut. Why do that?

I have an aluminum catamaran and shortly after the last haul out and Spurs maintenance, one of my Spurs came loose on the shaft. I did a quick haul and found they were not reinstalled properly and I had to leave one off due to missing bolt that we didn't have readily available. I realize anything can be installed improperly - but if we didn't have to take them off in the first place, that risk would have gone away.

If I replace that Spurs unit, I'll replace it with a Shaft Shark. I prefer it's simplicity. Actually, I may keep one of each just to do further research.
 
Those Shaft Sharks do look the deal! Thanks for sharing Bkay.

Regards, Edwin.
 
Another vote here for Shaft Shark. We bought one and it didn't fit quite right. The customer service was great. We shipped it back and they machined a slight taper to it and we were all set!
 
Some exciting news, as we finish the second iteration of the design phase of our new expedition yacht! Where we ended the first iteration with 6,500 liters of fuel, the second design phase allowed us to increase that to 7,100 liters. Two wing tanks of 2000 liters each, and one central fuel tank that holds 3,100 liters.

At an expected (and calculated) fuel burn of 1 liter per 1 kilometer, at 10 knots cruising speed, the 7,100 liter total fuel capacity leads to a 6k to 7k (in kilometers) range. Again, at a very high cruising speed (for a 65 footer) of 10 knots.

The fresh water intake capacity increased from an original 1,000 liters to 1,300 liters. Not saying we need to start out "fully booked", but the increase - both in fuel and water holding capacity - allows for more options to be explored.

And we still have like three or four nice little innovations up our sleeves to further increase efficiency. To be discussed later ...

Regards, Edwin.
 
Dashew's FPB64 was getting about 1.1 L/km (ouch - hate those units of measurement for boats!) at 9.7kn and that was with a lot of experience and time to design over decades. I suggest working on a bit higher than his numbers, although if you can get 10% better you definitely should go into business!
 
Thanks McArthur,

I thought they got 1 L/km at 9 knots. That's also what I get, when I put their rough numbers in our calculator. Yes, we have studied their designs. They designed great boats, but also made some compromises we'll do differently. Or we feel we don't need to make. Also, the help of an actual NA and CFD helps translate art into science more and more.

To add to that: it feels like we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Without the amazing work the Dashews did, we wouldn't be here. We owe them for that!

As an example of what we do differently, well, given advancements in stabilizer technology, we can do without a chine. We go full round-bilged instead and that helps efficiency as well as weight. Modern day stabs react faster than stabs from a decade ago, meaning no initial roll dampening is needed via chime design to compensate for the 0.2 to 0.3 seconds reaction time of old. Just one example. There are more.

The numbers we expect are calculated in a defensive manner. And we know there is still room for improvement. The total system's efficiency (like how much of the energy available in a liter or gallon of fuel is translated into propulsion) is currently at around 61%. The NA and I expect that number to go up to 65%. And that's without adding solar and then some into the mix. Allowing us to not run the generator will gain another gallon or so. As will deploying additional solar power to help with propulsion.

Yes, given the feedback and interest we have received, we think about starting a company. Another hobby spinning "out of control", but as long as it gives energy, why not? It is the way in which we started our current business. Maybe we'll sell a few additional boats, maybe not. As long as running that new company does not start to feel like work, all is fine. We are not the persons to sit still anyhow.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.
 
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The total system's efficiency (like how much of the energy available in a liter or gallon of fuel is translated into propulsion) is currently at around 61%. The NA and I expect that number to go up to 65%. And that's without adding solar and then some into the mix. Allowing us to not run the generator will gain another gallon or so. As will deploying additional solar power to help with propulsion.


I don't understand this. A diesel engine is 30% efficient in converting the energy in diesel into rotational energy. So it would seem the numbers only go down from there as you add in propeller efficiency, etc, etc.
 
@Salty, there was some good critical feedback up above. I like your overall concept and your drive and our chats on the side, so please allow me to offer a reality check.

First of all, one of the world's most efficient diesel engines in this size/class is made by Weichai for the trucking industry and it just broke the 50% barrier, an amazing accomplishment. You'll lose 4.5% through the drive train. An average propeller operates at 55%, although a really large diameter, slow turning trawler prop may be pushing 60%.

So you are converting about 28% of the energy stored in diesel into propulsive power. If you received that number of 60% from your NA then you may wish to be skeptical.

Mr. OC's comments about the guest stateroom/bath proportions is spot on. I see a shower that is 24-30 inches square (eye-balling it), a head with about 12 inches of legroom in front of it, an unusually cramped berth arrangement which seems to be trying to cram too much in.

Have you though about having a cabin with double berth to port immediately as you descend the stairs? You could have a single berth that folds down above it, so the cabin can accommodate either a couple, or two singles who don't want to spoon all night. This mid-ship layout would provide much better motion than a bow location, especially for a bluewater cruiser. And perhaps a more roomy bath layout which can be up in the bow.

I've already given feedback through PM on the galley size and related.

You made a statement that you may wish to commercialize this design and market it. Your current layout may fit your personal needs just perfectly, and God bless if that's true so more power to you. However don't expect such layout/design to be well received from the public.

You as the customer may not have the knowledge to design a boat properly, and that's okay because you'll rely on a knowledgeable NA. But from what I've read in this thread, you may want to think carefully about the advice and abilities of the NA that you're receiving, especially considering the couple million euros you'll be dropping into your dream vessel.
 
Thanks for the feedback and the expression of concerns. They are noted and appreciated, even though I feel a turn away from the initial positivity. That is less fun and less pleasant indeed. It is what it is though. Not all feedback will be implemented in the design, I hope y'all can appreciate and respect that.

The engine makes a certain amount of kWh at a certain rpm. It uses a certain amount of diesel to get to that flywheel output number. That's the 30 or 28% efficiency referred to above. And I am not saying we can increase that number to 61%. If that was the idea, what I meant to say must have gotten lost in translation.

How much of what's produced is actually translated into forward thrust? That's the question at stake and the one we are making progress on. Well, it depends on the efficiency of the gear box, the homokinetic devise, shaft, water flow dynamics towards the prop, and - most of all - prop efficiency.

A normal number for any motor yacht would be 50 to 55% at cruising speed. We are at 61% at the intended cruising speed of 10 knots and 60% at its 11.5 knot top speed.

Impressive numbers that we expect to further improve upon.

I hope this addition clarifies things.

Regards, Edwin.
 
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... even though I feel a turn away from the initial positivity. That is less fun and less pleasant indeed.

No disrespect intended, but you've come to an open forum requesting feedback, and I believe you'd appreciate sometimes receiving some "tough love" as opposed to just "oos and aahs". Overall I think your project is wonderful and certainly look forward to seeing how it develops.
 
I thought they got 1 L/km at 9 knots. That's also what I get, when I put their rough numbers in our calculator. Yes, we have studied their designs. They designed great boats, but also made some compromises we'll do differently. Or we feel we don't need to make. Also, the help of an actual NA and CFD helps translate art into science more and more.

Thanks Edwin & Veronika, I got the Dashew figures here - https://setsail.com/fpb-cruising-speed-range-under-power-and-the-real-world/#more-28964. But I may have got the unit conversion wrong!

To add to that: it feels like we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Without the amazing work the Dashews did, we wouldn't be here. We owe them for that!

As an example of what we do differently, well, given advancements in stabilizer technology, we can do without a chine. We go full round-bilged instead and that helps efficiency as well as weight. Modern day stabs react faster than stabs from a decade ago, meaning no initial roll dampening is needed via chime design to compensate for the 0.2 to 0.3 seconds reaction time of old. Just one example. There are more.

I think it was Woods who did an analysis of chine versus round, and found very little difference in effect/benefit. But I don't know what speed band(s) it was done on (and can't find the reference anyway).

Remember that the stabilisers increase surface area as they work and slow the boat a bit, so fast-acting stabs actually make that worse faster. But of course if the roll is large, then dampening it early may make a positive difference to drag, so it's a careful 1-2 waltz (hmm, surely that should be 1-2-3 waltz! :rolleyes:).

Looking forward to seeing how you go - a really interesting project.
 

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