Nomad Willy
Guru
My roll bar anchor (Supreme) has come up clean but I don't use it much.
Only big load of mud I've pulled up was on a Danforth.
Only big load of mud I've pulled up was on a Danforth.
My roll bar anchor (Supreme) has come up clean but I don't use it much.
Only big load of mud I've pulled up was on a Danforth.
You are quite right, not a problem at all - only the designer of the anchor thinks so and he has put his money where his heart is, designed an anchor without a roll bar and denigrate his original design - you are right, just a fairy tale.
Either you think the designer great (as he designed your anchor) or you think him an idiot because he now says the design is flawed - you have chosen your route, we have the message, the designer thinks otherwise..
Just perfect!
Hey, mods. What about changing "Anchors and Anchoring" to "Anchor Sluts"? A great way to increase viewership with all the mis-directed Google hits you'll get.
I think what Rocna have done was quite predictable. Their previous model does not fit a number of boats because of the roll bar . Releasing a non roll bar model is quite logical.
I agree.
I doubt if we will ever hear from Rocna which anchor they feel is superior. Manufacturers are generally reluctant to rate their models. Even Manson who produce almost every type of anchor available are very coy about which models they consider are superior.
Also correct...
It is great to see so many new anchors released. The Steel Spade is an excellent anchor and the Ultra is very good. The release of a new anchor with similar characteristics to these two anchors is promising. Time will tell.
Absolutely - good that the search goes on...
Note : I am currently testing a Mantus anchor that has been provided at no charge.
Peter, Noelex has an extensive and very good thread with lots of pictures comparing/promoting his 120# Mantus to a great many smaller anchors here: Photos of Anchors Setting. - Cruisers & Sailing ForumsPlease keep us informed re the Mantus experience. However….Noelex, on a different tack, or minor thread hijack….
Is your avatar name related in any way to the popular range of NZ designed and largely built range of yachts, the outstandingly most successful being the Noelex 25 trailer yacht..?
As I recall, we had a discussion on another forum about the Mantus shank and we both thought it unlikely the shank of the Mantus would hold up in normal use. That was an unwelcome opinion to express from the point of view of moderator/promoters of that hook, but I am surprised that the "new improved" shank also bent. Are you sure about that? The Mantus seems like a good design if you can accept the limitations of a hoop style anchor, although manufacturing materials can turn a good design in to a poor performer, no matter how much its promoters try to pretend otherwise. The Fortress is the exact opposite - an ok design made a great deal better with the use of better materials and execution. Perhaps Mantus will take the same path at some point?Sadly Noelex bent the shank on his Mantus, which he downplayed, but from the evidence it was bent under less than arduous conditions and it was one of the new shanks. The fact that the roll bar also bent on the Chesapeake trials combined with the weak shank is not a good story.
As I recall, we had a discussion on another forum about the Mantus shank and we both thought it unlikely the shank of the Mantus would hold up in normal use. That was an unwelcome opinion to express from the point of view of moderator/promoters of that hook, but I am surprised that the "new improved" shank also bent. Are you sure about that? The Mantus seems like a good design if you can accept the limitations of a hoop style anchor, although manufacturing materials can turn a good design in to a poor performer, no matter how much its promoters try to pretend otherwise. The Fortress is the exact opposite - an ok design made a great deal better with the use of better materials and execution. Perhaps Mantus will take the same path at some point?
Perhaps Noelex will clarify which kind of shank he had originally. His anchor follows the bigger is better approach in that it would be at least one size larger than the Mantus chart recommends, so one would expect a more robust performance.No I'm not sure as Noelex has provided no explanation.
Mantus claim to have changed all shanks to the HT version by Dec 2013 (its on their website). Noelex, in early Sept 2014, had had his Mantus for 5 months. This suggest he received it in March. He is in Greece so it might have taken a month to get to him. The anchor was shipped in late Jan or Feb. Why would an anchor maker send an anchor with an 'old' and questionable shank for evaluation?
I think Noelex said the anchor bent after use in 20 knots of wind (though it might have bent on retrieval - but he made no mention of a difficult retrieval).
In the absence of any other explanation its the new shank.
The Mantus shank profile is about 60% of the width of a Rocna, Delta, Excel shank and will have 60% of the strength - assuming the same steel. Noting that the Excel shank uses steel stronger than either the Rocna or Delta. For its weight the Mantus has a larger fluke than any of the others - which will impose higher loads if lifted, broken out, too quickly (but shanks should be designed to accommodate this.
Many shanks bend - but not in 20 knots of wind.
A thin mild steel shank would be a guess.Noelex...what do you think bent that shaft?
I hate speculation....
Noelex...what do you think bent that shaft?
I hate speculation....
No one wants a bent shaft....I know of one bent Ultra shank prior to the addition of internal reinforcement, but I have never heard of an Excel shank bending, nor a Rocna when their shank was made of Bisalloy. Too springy, I guess. The Fortress shank has bent, but I put that down to the fact that they will bury themselves so well you have to expect that to happen once in awhile.
No one wants a bent shaft.
If an anchor shaft bends, is it ok to straighten it and continue use, OR once bent, even straightened, it is then more prone to bend and time to get a new one, and send the old one to Eric for the collection.
And of course, if it needs replacing, with what?
Shanks can certainly be bent back, but they will be even weaker after than they were to begin with. You can't restore the crystalline structure of the steel once deformed unless heated to plasticity, even if you can restore the original gross shape of the bent piece. Mantus has an advantage of being able to replace the shank, and perhaps that was their original intent - manufacture a weaker product that is cheaper, then replace the bent shanks after people complain. I would speculate that is the case, although I remember on Cruisers Forum when a number of posters thought the shank was substandard, the engineer for Mantus posted a chart with his calculations that their shank was as strong as anyone else's, so maybe they thought that really was the case. I believe my calling the calcs "bogus" earned me my first official reprimand from that site. I only wish I had received a plaque or something because I was kind of proud of that, but no. These calcs were subsequently disappeared from the thread by agreeable Mantus promoting moderators and shortly thereafter Mantus announced they would be replacing the mild steel shanks with ones made of stronger stuff. My guess is that it is still weaker than competitors simply because its cross section has less steel than the competitors, but maybe that doesn't matter to most people under most anchoring conditions.No one wants a bent shaft.
If an anchor shaft bends, is it ok to straighten it and continue use, OR once bent, even straightened, it is then more prone to bend and time to get a new one, and send the old one to Eric for the collection.
And of course, if it needs replacing, with what?
Sometimes you have to invent your own problems to solve...
Uhhh, I think you might have missed Spy's point.....In all the posts on this thread, this is the smartest, most intelligent, most meaningful, most insightful, and most accurate one of the bunch.
I've got a meeting coming up with some of the communicators and brand managers I work with, and I'm going to use this thread as an example of how speculation by people with little more than armchair theory to work with can spin what in actuality is total guesswork and bias into something that can come across as having a fair degree of credibility.
It's a great example of how the perception of a product can be affected by made-up problems stemming from made-up situations.
psneeld posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
No one wants a bent shaft.
If an anchor shaft bends, is it ok to straighten it and continue use, OR once bent, even straightened, it is then more prone to bend and time to get a new one, and send the old one to Eric for the collection.
And of course, if it needs replacing, with what?
In the job I just left working for a salvage business that retrieves and uses hundreds of anchors a year...especially during major oil spills...
I would have to say that an anchor properly bent back into shape has a good chance of being completely serviceable. But in many cases...the anchor is not bent back exactly and does not seem to be "as good as new"...the geometry is bad and the worst seem to be the danforths and similar designs. Any narrowing of space on those designs tends to fiddle with the ability for the flukes to rotate properly and set...even the smallest clamshells or grass wads seem to keep them from setting...or one fluke bent down seems to make them flip or pivot before setting.
Rex Wrote:
Scott thats interesting, maybe our Super Sarca solves some of those problems as we are packing a good order for Canada as we speak for the oil spill containment booms.
Why I dont know as they would we be quite expensive as we send them air mail, every year a couple of times they order these so keep your eyes open and let me know if you see any.
Regards Rex.
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Uhhh, I think you might have missed Spy's point.....