Cargo Wake Issue / Newer Boater

[huruta]

Hello. Had a bit of a terrifying experience today. We are in Seattle, 2006 Nordic 32, returning from Poulsbo to go through the Ballard Locks and came across a very large, weighted down cargo ship (full of Christmas goods?). We didn't think we could cross the shipping lane in time so we went north, crossing it north as it headed south. We then did two large circles (about 15 minutes of driving around and heading north) before we crossed the wake. The wake was massive to us, there were two large waves, the first ~4 foot, the second ~6 feet. We were all a bit jostled, a few items went flying (water bottle, sunglasses) and we were okay (dogs were terrified), but it was definitely a LOT bigger than we anticipated. Especially that 2nd 6 footer. Water completely over the bow of the boat. WTF? We are trying to learn from this. Here are some specs:

Vessel: CMA CGA Titan
Length: 363 meters
Width: 46 meters
Gross Tonnage: 131332
Summer deadweight: 131236

We are not that experienced, but I have never heard of such massive wakes and to look out for them. Thoughts? I think we both feel a bit scarred. Boat, of course, took it like a champ, much better than us. Kind insights appreciated.

 

[ksanders]

Hello. Had a bit of a terrifying experience today. We are in Seattle, 2006 Nordic 32, returning from Poulsbo to go through the Ballard Locks and came across a very large, weighted down cargo ship (full of Christmas goods?). We didn't think we could cross the shipping lane in time so we went north, crossing it north as it headed south. We then did two large circles (about 15 minutes of driving around and heading north) before we crossed the wake. The wake was massive to us, there were two large waves, the first ~4 foot, the second ~6 feet. We were all a bit jostled, a few items went flying (water bottle, sunglasses) and we were okay (dogs were terrified), but it was definitely a LOT bigger than we anticipated. Especially that 2nd 6 footer. Water completely over the bow of the boat. WTF? We are trying to learn from this. Here are some specs:

Vessel: CMA CGA Titan
Length: 363 meters
Width: 46 meters
Gross Tonnage: 131332
Summer deadweight: 131236

We are not that experienced, but I have never heard of such massive wakes and to look out for them. Thoughts? I think we both feel a bit scarred. Boat, of course, took it like a champ, much better than us. Kind insights appreciated.

The big lesson to learn from this is that wakes happen, and you need to continue to learn and be ready for them.

Nobody got hurt, and you learned today.

 

[Delta Riverat]

You did fine. I bought my boat because it was advised at being able to take more than her crew can. Keep the bow to the waves and keep on!

 

[hmason]

You need to learn how your boat handles wakes. Sometimes head on is not the best angle. Practice cutting through smaller wakes, even making circles and cutting through your own wake. You might find that somewhere between head on and 45 degrees is your sweet spot.

 

[huruta]

Thanks, for the quick feedback. Sounds like these things happen and that it was all par for the course. I guess one question is whether there is a way we could have anticipated this big of a wake? We've passed behind many WA ferries without such a huge hit, wondering if there's some formula, threshold, or a priori analytics we can do to inform our approach?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. h. Yep. Wakes happen. Early on in my boating career I had a similar incident. Certainly made me more aware of wakes and waves. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

[Blissboat]

Sounds like you did fine. As noted, our boats can often handle more than the crew can - people and doggos.

Depending on the conditions of wind, current and channel boundaries, it's possible that the container ship was having to keep more speed on than normal, for the sake of rudder control. You were probably wise to go behind her rather than try to pass in front. Big ships are often moving faster than it appears.

 

[Benthic2]

I am not familiar with the area so this may not apply to you, but wakes tend to dissipate over time so the further away from the boat you can cross the wake the smaller the wake will be. A good takeaway from this is to always have items stowed and secured, even when you don't expect any drama, because when the drama happens, you don't want to be distracted by housekeeping issues.

 

[Lepke]

You'll get use to them and the wakes will go from terrifying to annoying.


The angle you cross the wake and the speed of your boat can reduce the effect.


My dog sleeps thru them.

 

[huruta]

Per Marine Traffic the ship was going 17 knots. Perhaps that played into the large wake, along with its 1000 foot length, 135 foot beam, and ridiculous weight? Ferries can't weigh anything near that beast. Clash of the (massive) Titan with the 'lil Titan (Nordic Tug 32)? Definitely lesson learned re: flying objects out of seemingly nowhere.

 

[bkcorwin]

I've boated in this area a lot. Anything pushing a ton of water will likely leave a good wake. Ferries are nothing in the relative scheme of boating around here as far as wakes go. So you may not have heard of it yet, but let me be the first to alert you to potential for huge wakes in the area. I've been able to track the wakes on my radar before.

You really have to keep an eye on large ship traffic but it's pretty easy since they run in the marked channels.

The other thing to be aware of is large ocean going tugs. They can draw and push A LOT of water. So while they dont look as big as a ferry or a tanker they can throw massive wakes.

Hello. Had a bit of a terrifying experience today. We are in Seattle, 2006 Nordic 32, returning from Poulsbo to go through the Ballard Locks and came across a very large, weighted down cargo ship (full of Christmas goods?). We didn't think we could cross the shipping lane in time so we went north, crossing it north as it headed south. We then did two large circles (about 15 minutes of driving around and heading north) before we crossed the wake. The wake was massive to us, there were two large waves, the first ~4 foot, the second ~6 feet. We were all a bit jostled, a few items went flying (water bottle, sunglasses) and we were okay (dogs were terrified), but it was definitely a LOT bigger than we anticipated. Especially that 2nd 6 footer. Water completely over the bow of the boat. WTF? We are trying to learn from this. Here are some specs:

Vessel: CMA CGA Titan
Length: 363 meters
Width: 46 meters
Gross Tonnage: 131332
Summer deadweight: 131236

We are not that experienced, but I have never heard of such massive wakes and to look out for them. Thoughts? I think we both feel a bit scarred. Boat, of course, took it like a champ, much better than us. Kind insights appreciated.

 

[Northern Spy]

Sounds like you learned a lot.

My little Nordic Tug takes the waves head on fairly well. Lots of spray, a bit of blue or green water, and a little excitement of things not stowed for sea.

You'll get used to it.

 

[Sababa]

I was pretty shocked the first time I took a big cargo ship wake head on in my 37. The well between the first and second wave was so steep and deep that it felt like we were going to pitch pole. I now try to place myself to cross well behind where the period of the wake has had a chance to spread out, and to cross at maybe a thirty degree angle which has the effect of lengthening the period even more without adding too much of a roll component to my motion. Another thing is to consider the type of ship whose wake you are crossing. The big laden bulk cargo ships are a totally different animal from the ferries, the car carriers, or even the container ships. They are displacing so much more water that it doesn’t compare. I give those guys as wide a berth as I can possibly manage.

 

[RedRascal]

Depending on when you came in this afternoon there was an outgoing tide so current moving north. That can help stand up a wake of a southbound ship. Good call on playing it safe and letting it pass rather than trying to cross in front of it. With your boat I'd probably try and cross something like that at a 20 degree angle. Since you buried your bow that tells me the waves were pretty close together and going at a 45 degree angle may get you rolling and really tossed around. I'd also would probably slow down to 4-5 knots so the boat doesn't drop off the backside of the wave.

What you experienced today could turn out worse in Admiralty Inlet where the current runs stronger or at Port Townsend off Point Wilson. Ships run at speed in those areas. Consider yourselves lucky that you got the intro to large wakes where you did. What I've found to be worse than a cargo ship are the ocean going Foss tractor tugs, those things can throw a nasty short and steep wake when they are moving at speed. Getting a couple miles away from one of their wakes could be a very wise move.

Also think about how it would have played out cooking something on the stove while tied to a buoy on the east side of Blake Island at low tide. You may drop down to 15-20 feet of water and Mr. Cargo Ship that draws 30 feet of water sends you a wake to remember. If you anchor along a shipping lane you must be prepared to roll. It's one thing to get hit on the bow but on the beam can be a dangerous ride. Not sure if you guys have a stern thruster but if so that can be a quick way to swing your boat bow into a wave when you are at anchor.

Don't worry you will get the hang of it, it is just part of what we have going on in Puget Sound.

 

[SoWhat]

You did everything right. Came back in one piece. Now you know what to tie down before leaving the dock, and to stay at the dock when the NOAA wave forecast is 3-5 with high winds. The boat can handle it but my wife put her foot down when we once hit some 6-8 conditions and I enjoy her company so I check sea state forecast before leaving a harbor.
(We turned back on that day)

 

[guy with a boat]

Wakes that large should be the exception and not common. The speed of the ship makes a huge difference in the size of the wake, so try to be aware of the ship’s speed in this kind of situation. AIS will tell you their speed if you are so equipped. That same ship at 10 kts would leave a wake far smaller than what you encountered.

Bottom line is that with time on the water, you will learn to have a pretty good idea of what wakes you really need to steer clear of. You will get rocked now and then, but should be able to avoid most of the worst ones.

 

[tiltrider1]

What was your speed when you hit the wake? You get a much smoother crossing if you slow down.

 

[PM]

Most boats can take more than the crew.

pete

 

[huruta]

Thank you all for your feedback - it is appreciated. I feel like we are learning is now, reflecting and taking in all the wonderful perspectives you all have been sharing. Here's some more information and take aways:

- We were going ~7.5 knots; would go ~4-5 next time
- The waves were very close to each other which I think amplified the wave (and stress). We pitched down steeply and quickly before heading up to hit the next, larger wave.
- We were perpendicular to the wave, perhaps a 20 degree angle might have helped
- The speed, size and weight of the ship was in a league different from what we had encountered before and this can be an important data point for future wake crossings
- We would probably go further beyond the ship next time allowing for wake dissipation
- Sounds like others have experienced this on occasion, but it's not the norm (good to know this wasn't some total rookie mistake)
- We have AIS - need to figure out how to see speed - we found it on Marine Traffic as we were making our plans to go behind the ship, so still go the info but need to learn our tech a bit more
- The encounter was around 1:30pm, so I think slake tide, but didn't think about this. Taking a tides and currents class next month, sounds like this will be good information to have
- We have been to Blake Island and the comment re: mooring near a shipping channel carries more weight given this experience. Also a great heads up - we've been to Blake once and are excited to go back in the coming months. We have a stern thruster.
- Sounds like we are lucky to have this happen here. I've heard about Admiralty Inlet / Port Townsend area having strong currents - didn't think about this in the context of large ships and wakes - makes a lot more sense now.
- Gives us a sense of what we are not okay with in terms of wave heights.
- Definitely going to keep an eye out for those ocean going tugs

Husband and I were deconstructing this at dinner and one thing he mentioned is that in high stress situations, it's not the first stressor but the second that gets you. I don't think I appreciated how frayed our nerves were after. We are both pretty calm in high stress, but the after effects on us were rippling. It was the roughest transition through the locks (our 4th time through) all due to user error, likely due to the fact that internal stress was still high. Came out fine, but definitely another lesson in there.

 

[Hippocampus]

On passage our rule was to not cross behind a VLCC, large container ship or cruise ship unless there was >2nm. Once you get something >1000’ going at their passage speed they create suction and wake. Often what you see as wake is misleading as to the impact it will have on your boat.
In coastal waters they are going slower but still can really disturb the surroundings. We don’t run in shipping channels. It’s deceptive how fast they’re going given they’re so large so you can’t trust your eyes. AIS/radar is better in this situation. Especially when they are the overtaking vessel. Rather than the channel we run parallel as far away as local depths allow. Before the wake strikes change orientation so your not struck on your beam. I’d rather go up and down than roll. Typically will slow down a bit as well. We don’t pass in front of a ship unless there’s a huge safety margin. So generally much prefer to just slow down and wait for them to go by. Depending upon how fast they’re going will wait additional time for the suction and wake to mostly clear.
We plan ahead. Things like going up the Delaware to get to the C&D. Will wait to cross whenever there’s no one around that will bother us. Then proceed up the C&D entrance side until we get there.
In NYC hug the Brooklyn side if going to LI sound or the NJ side if going to the Hudson. Find if you plan ahead you can stay away from shipping almost all the time.

 

[huruta]

Thanks, Hippocampus. The wake was definitely misleading. And glad we looked up the speed - the ship was pretty far away at first making us think it wouldn't be a problem to cross in front, but the speed made us change our minds and act conservatively (glad we did). We often have to cross a shipping channel to get where we are going and so learning from this and getting everyone's thoughts here has been super helpful.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Speed and angle, as has been mentioned, are important. But don't think that you are going to avoid cargo ship wakes by getting further away. There just isn't enough room in most of Admiralty Inlet to hide. For me, the most important thing is to have everything properly stored. Nothing adds to the anxiety like spilled coffee, chart books on the floor, dishes clacking, bruised knees, etc. Adding noise, injury and cleanup makes a wave on deck a real unnerving experience.

Ferries can make huge wakes. Years ago, I was going through Active Pass with a maximum following current when I noticed all the little fishing boats went tearing off. I told my wife that they must have gotten a fishing report. Nope. Around the corner came a BC Ferry plowing through. I got over close to the kelp beds and it went by without incident. As I headed back into the channel I saw why the fishing boats had left. I told my wife to hold on and had solid water hit the helm windows. "Did you see that!!" She said "No, I had my eyes closed." I gained more respect for my old wooden tub. Still, not an experience I want to repeat.

 

[huruta]

Marco, Yeah, kind of wondered if we'll get far enough away to not feel the impact. I think further in distance and closer to shore can help mitigate but probably not eliminate the impact. Can appreciate storing items securely more now; even on a beautiful calm day. Next up on the list is a cup holder for the pilot house so my stainless water bottle doesn't fly again - it has potential to cause injury for sure.

 

[High Wire]

Agree with slow down to 4-5 knots and take the waves on 30-45 degrees off. It stretches out the time the boat has to respond. On our boat the worst wakes are from behind with overtaking boats.

 

[bowball]

I sure learned a lesson to these ships speed when I was rowing in SF Bay. I saw a container ship heading to sea near the Bay Bridge. I was heading from Sausalito to Alcatraz and thought I had plenty of time to cross in front. I quickly aborted as it was so fast relatively. And massive from my boat as it must have been 50,000 tons. Now that have the 250,000 ton class periodically visit. I just couldn’t believe how fast they were.

 

[Fletcher500]

The wake was massive to us, there were two large waves, the first ~4 foot, the second ~6 feet.

Good advice from others regarding how to handle wakes. My favorite are very large sport fishers when they are coming up on plane in the channel 100 ft away because they have places to go. I never take it personally, just part of the deal.

I travel through a major shipping channel often but don't ever recall seeing a 6 ft wake.

 

[Hippocampus]

There are times you just grin and bear it so advice to prepare is excellent as stated by others.
We had entered buzzard’s bay having just exited the cape cod canal in a 39’ Hank Hinckley sailboat. A very large tug barge combo was just entering the canal entering on its way to Boston lead by a escort. We were just getting past the standing waves commonly seen at that spot. Along with the gas barge three large sport fish running right next to each approached the back of the tug barge on plane. Army corp got them to stop but their wakes added to the wake of the barge and the standing waves. We were as far to port of the barge (just passed us) when a series of large steep waves hit us. Our boat was totally awash up to the gooseneck. The cockpit totally flooded. It was weird to look forward and see no boat at all. She popped right up but was real glad ports were closed and washboards were in. So yes you can see 6’ wakes. At the time of event sportfish weren’t moving any longer and tug barge wasn’t going that fast. Think all the vessels wakes were additive and it was just our bad luck.

 

[huruta]

I'm not that experienced with wave height estimation, but I'm thinking we aren't that far off. Per our boat specs, the distance from water level to peak of bow on our Nordic 32 is 5'8" and the 2nd wave crashed over our bow, so probably not too far off. I think this wake size is an anomaly based on comments here (thankfully) and probably due to how laden down the boat was, it's size and speed. Regardless of exact height, the wake was substantial and I've learned a lot about potential wakes from large ships that we'll take forward as we head out in the future!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. h. It's not only potential wakes from boats you will encounter but in some cases entering or exiting inlets or river mouths tides, winds and currents in opposition or combinations thereof produce waves of substantial size (relative), seemingly out of nowhere. Unlike boat wakes, these phenomena are usually well known locally.

If you anticipate cruising into unknown areas it may be good to ask locals if any weird sea conditions exist.


On the east coast, there are some sounds you just don't cross in winds above a certain speed or from a certain direction.


It's ALL part of the learning process.

 

[Northern Spy]

You encountered the bow wave of a ship. Ships with high prismatic coefficients send off a large bow wave. Unlike our boats which create a stern wake that people generally complain about.

I see at 13:30 the ship was doing 11.7 knots, slowing to turn to enter Elliott Bay. At that speed it may be possible that the bow wave from the bulbous bow may be worse than if it were at its cruising speed. Bulbous bows are only efficient at a narrow speed range as they generate a destructive superpositioned wave at cruising speed. At certain speeds the waves become constructive superposition waves; bigger.

Not a lot of places to go and hide in mid Puget Sound. Sometimes you just have to figure out the angle and the timing of the wave.

I used to kayak off of Kingston when I lived there. Always kept on eye out for shipping waves.