Northern Spy
Guru
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 4,092
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Northern Spy
- Vessel Make
- Nordic Tug 26
Only 8 phases?
Seems a bit, thin on detail.
I did phase 6, 2, 5, and 8. In that order, in a month.
California newbies - PNW or bust.
- Thread starter GANDK2PNW
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I did phase 6, 2, 5, and 8. In that order, in a month.
eyschulman
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,288
Good luck with your planned adventure. All doable. The 10K cruise is also doable but will severely limit the type and # of boats available. In most places in the PNW 7-8K is a very acceptable norm for serious cruisers. While my boat has the potential to cruise at 18K you will find me traveling at or just below hull speed of 9K. The reasons are fuel burn the ability to see what's in the water and most places are near by. You also have to consider dealing with the local weather. There are only two or three months where California blue sky's may appear regularly. The rest of the year is GREY skies and ample rain. If you make it up here look for our boat and say hallo.
Wifey B: 3rd, 4th or 5th, whatever the number I am to say this. Charter, Charter, Charter. You might confirm what you think now you like or might change. You'll get a feel. And after the first then, you have a comparison. Suddenly you can say, I like this about boat A better and this about boat B, and I never ever ever ever want a boat with this, whatever this is.
Larry H
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 359
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Jacari Maru
- Vessel Make
- 2014 Ranger Tug R-27
GANDK2PNW,
If you are planning on living aboard full time in the PNW your boat needs to have:
1. The ability to heat itself not using shore power (electricity). A diesel furnace is likely the best choice. Heating in the winter can use several gallons (3-5+) of diesel daily.
2. Comfortable shower facilities, including adequate hot water. If the water heater is electric only, you will have to run a generator to have hot water. A hydronic boat heater can also heat the hot water.
3. Adequate holding tank capacity. The PNW does have lots of pumpouts and there is a pump out boat service that comes to your boat, but moving your own boat to the pump-out is a pain, especially in the winter.
4. Adequate water tank capacity. Marinas shut off the water on the docks during freezing weather. We are having freezing weather now. My marina in La Conner WA has shut off the water. This could go on for a month or so.
5. To go along with #4, a water-maker. Note that not all areas have clean enough water to safely run your watermaker.
6. Consider solar power to charge batteries without having to run a generator. (Mostly in the summer)
7. Consider getting a covered moorage for the winter. It rains here. After carting the groceries down the dock, its nice to have a big roof over the (dry) boat.
8, Nice but not necessary is an onboard washer and dryer.
9. A tender that is big enough to service the boat, and if the tender is big enough, you may have to tow it behind, unless the boat is large enough to carry the tender. The tender becomes your water car while out cruising.
10. Adequate anchor gear and windlass to anchor in water as deep as 80-100ft.
11. I strongly encourage getting a boat that has a swim step, cockpit with transom door, and a salon that opens onto the cockpit. I have an aft cabin Puget Trawler (like CHB) that does not have a cockpit and I now realize that is a mistake. For ease of boarding, provisioning, boarding the tender, fishing, and sitting out back, nothing beats a cockpit.
12. Everyone has their own style, but i think a raised pilothouse, aft salon, with cockpit and swim step is the best combination of features for a PNW liveaboard.
13. AVOID TEAK DECKS on cabin tops and flybridges on any older Tiawan build boats. I have them, and I have leaks, and its an expensive fix.
A link that might help you decide some things. mv.VikingStar
Consider Anacortes as a winter base, its close to the San Juans and Gulf Islands areas, it has multiple marinas, some covered, and has lots of boat services available.
Shopping for and buying a boat in the PNW may be best, as the boats here are mostly already equipped for the area and climate. This also avoids shipping a boat.
Good luck in your adventure.
If you are planning on living aboard full time in the PNW your boat needs to have:
1. The ability to heat itself not using shore power (electricity). A diesel furnace is likely the best choice. Heating in the winter can use several gallons (3-5+) of diesel daily.
2. Comfortable shower facilities, including adequate hot water. If the water heater is electric only, you will have to run a generator to have hot water. A hydronic boat heater can also heat the hot water.
3. Adequate holding tank capacity. The PNW does have lots of pumpouts and there is a pump out boat service that comes to your boat, but moving your own boat to the pump-out is a pain, especially in the winter.
4. Adequate water tank capacity. Marinas shut off the water on the docks during freezing weather. We are having freezing weather now. My marina in La Conner WA has shut off the water. This could go on for a month or so.
5. To go along with #4, a water-maker. Note that not all areas have clean enough water to safely run your watermaker.
6. Consider solar power to charge batteries without having to run a generator. (Mostly in the summer)
7. Consider getting a covered moorage for the winter. It rains here. After carting the groceries down the dock, its nice to have a big roof over the (dry) boat.
8, Nice but not necessary is an onboard washer and dryer.
9. A tender that is big enough to service the boat, and if the tender is big enough, you may have to tow it behind, unless the boat is large enough to carry the tender. The tender becomes your water car while out cruising.
10. Adequate anchor gear and windlass to anchor in water as deep as 80-100ft.
11. I strongly encourage getting a boat that has a swim step, cockpit with transom door, and a salon that opens onto the cockpit. I have an aft cabin Puget Trawler (like CHB) that does not have a cockpit and I now realize that is a mistake. For ease of boarding, provisioning, boarding the tender, fishing, and sitting out back, nothing beats a cockpit.
12. Everyone has their own style, but i think a raised pilothouse, aft salon, with cockpit and swim step is the best combination of features for a PNW liveaboard.
13. AVOID TEAK DECKS on cabin tops and flybridges on any older Tiawan build boats. I have them, and I have leaks, and its an expensive fix.
A link that might help you decide some things. mv.VikingStar
Consider Anacortes as a winter base, its close to the San Juans and Gulf Islands areas, it has multiple marinas, some covered, and has lots of boat services available.
Shopping for and buying a boat in the PNW may be best, as the boats here are mostly already equipped for the area and climate. This also avoids shipping a boat.
Good luck in your adventure.
dhays
Guru
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 9,567
- Location
- Gig Harbor, WA
- Vessel Name
- Kinship
- Vessel Make
- 2010 North Pacific 43
Excellent post by Larry. I think all of his points are really good.
Larry just listed some excellent points. You need to be making your own list. However, if you haven't experienced some of it, your list may be weak. Hence, the charter recommendation. You (and I'm using that in the plural) will run across some things that you absolutely hate. Many may want to argue those things with you, but if you hate it, you hate it. One of ours is that we will not own a boat without a lower helm. There are thousands of people, many sportfishermen, who think a lower helm is a waste of space.
To some of the ones Larry listed, I think of them as the comforts of home. Many are more like campers on boats, but we want the comforts of heat, good showers with hot water, and lots of water. I know boaters who are happy showering twice a week, washing their hair once a week, using a hand held and as little water as possible, and wearing clothes several days. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just something that we would really dislike.
There are many very nice boats where the master is in the bow. Some people love the sounds there and others can't sleep and move out onto a sofa.
We use a tender a lot, mainly to explore. We have friends with a 62' Sunseeker Predator who don't even take a tender with them as they have no desire for one.
Every list you see, you should make notes of and decide how you feel about the things on it.
To some of the ones Larry listed, I think of them as the comforts of home. Many are more like campers on boats, but we want the comforts of heat, good showers with hot water, and lots of water. I know boaters who are happy showering twice a week, washing their hair once a week, using a hand held and as little water as possible, and wearing clothes several days. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just something that we would really dislike.
There are many very nice boats where the master is in the bow. Some people love the sounds there and others can't sleep and move out onto a sofa.
We use a tender a lot, mainly to explore. We have friends with a 62' Sunseeker Predator who don't even take a tender with them as they have no desire for one.
Every list you see, you should make notes of and decide how you feel about the things on it.
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
On some of your listed items Larry you could likely find consensus and others not so much. So many alternatives and ways to skin the cat.
As example, we intentionally do not have a water maker. There are so many refill points in the PNW. We have 400 gallons of capacity and have never come close to running out. Covered slip, not necessary if you have a leak proof vessel. Solar panels, fun to design and talk about but are they really necessary if you have a well functioning genset, battery and inverter combination. Or hydronic ve forced air vs passive diesel heating? the list gets long quickly.
And don't forget to mention good previous maintenance and a big ER!
A weekend trip to the Seattle Boat Show in January would be ever so helpful in the OP's plotting.
Last edited:
1 There are several ways to do this. I put a diesel stove into my 44' Galley down, trawler when it was new to me. That meant that I didn't have to rely on the Espar, so got away from the smoky startup, noise, high amperage when using it on the hook, costly maintenance. Not saying Espar still has all those problems, but if looking at an older boat you may buy all of those older problems. Diesel stove, properly installed, can be much better.
3 Not an issue if you moor where you are close to the shoreside facilities, but otherwise, hard to get handy to pumpouts, hard to go far enough out to sea.
4 & 5 We carry 300 gal(US). So far totally adequate.
7 Not so easy. Covered slips are at the end of a very long waiting list in the few places that have them.
9 We were slow to come to the tender party, but now that we have a decent size tender, consider it an absolute necessity. Otherwise, in marginal conditions, you will never use your tender. One that is big enough to still be comfortable when it is getting rough out will mean you can and will use it all the time. Makes the difference when it is time to go get the prawn traps. No adequate tender means beans for dinner, instead of Prawns.
I now consider my Caribe 12' to be marginal, and am envious of the guys towing something much bigger.
13 Boats built in the late 70s had a lot of teak deck issues. Most have been fixed by now. Just be vigilant. Make sure your survey finds any such problems.
We plan to do at least a couple of charters as soon as the season opens up in Vancouver, BC
What you consider a suitable holding tank capacity if you plan to be without pumpout service or dock for 3-4 weeks at a time?
There'll just be 2 adults onboard 90% of the time we're away from the marinas.
Thank you!
The more I read this forum, the more changes and ratifications we make to our original thoughts.
Wanting 10K is no longer a priority. As I read about tides and currents, I realize those are peaks, not constants, and can be timed fairly easily.
The same about east coast boats. too pricey to deliver to PNW and most are not equiped for the region either. YW has a tab to calculate deliver cost based on zip. It's cost calulation is terminally misleading, unless they think the boat will be delivered by mules, perhaps?
Everyone here has been very helpful. We truly appreciate it.
We live on board, and we have at slip pump out. We empty the holding tank once a week. We have vacuflush heads and I calculate that we generate about 5 gallons a day for the holding holding tank. probably less if I didn't like seven seas brewery so much...
A week ago I spoke about slip availability with a very helpful lady at Cap Sante marina, Anacortes.
They had two 57' immediate openings on E dock.
She also said that for liveaboard they're only up to 15% capacity. (100 permitted) I was surprised to hear that. For a well established marina of 90 years, that 15% seemed very low.
Their liveaboard qualifying criteria, however, seemed much more discriminating than other marina guidelines I've seen. We kinda like that. They do criminal background checks. Fine with me.
CraigC
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2016
- Messages
- 104
- Location
- United States
- Vessel Name
- Tango
- Vessel Make
- Nordlund Boat Co - 1978 Custom 53 Pilothouse
Larry mentioned the issue of teak on cabin tops. I wished to avoid all exterior teak, and mostly managed to do so (the teak cap rails on my boat were painted over - now they peel at the trim annually, apparently, and will need attention at least once a year).
For me, I desired covered outdoor space, if I were to go with a down-galley, non-flush model. I think it rains more in the PNW than here, and is colder up there than here. For me if I were to take on a boat - as a liveaboard - with a salon+sundeck over an aft cabin, I would really want to be able to enclose the sundeck and use it as a dining room or covered/enclosed patio. I just couldn't be happy with that CHB without adding a hard top and enclosure. Especially as a liveaboard in the PNW. But of course, we all have different lifestyles.
I have never spent time up there near the San Juans, so I may have the wrong idea about the climate up there. Might be fine for an open sundeck for much of the year.
I toured a decently fitted Tolly 48 and thought "ugh, love the quality, but just can't live on this boat - too small, not enough enclosed space."
Did you make it to Oxnard today?
For me, I desired covered outdoor space, if I were to go with a down-galley, non-flush model. I think it rains more in the PNW than here, and is colder up there than here. For me if I were to take on a boat - as a liveaboard - with a salon+sundeck over an aft cabin, I would really want to be able to enclose the sundeck and use it as a dining room or covered/enclosed patio. I just couldn't be happy with that CHB without adding a hard top and enclosure. Especially as a liveaboard in the PNW. But of course, we all have different lifestyles.
I have never spent time up there near the San Juans, so I may have the wrong idea about the climate up there. Might be fine for an open sundeck for much of the year.
I toured a decently fitted Tolly 48 and thought "ugh, love the quality, but just can't live on this boat - too small, not enough enclosed space."
Did you make it to Oxnard today?
Last edited:
What you consider a suitable holding tank capacity if you plan to be without pumpout service or dock for 3-4 weeks at a time?
Can you keep track of the volume generated daily? As above, if you can keep to 5 gal/day average, then 105 gal in 3 weeks use. Tough to be that disciplined.
Can you keep track of the volume generated daily? As above, if you can keep to 5 gal/day average, then 105 gal in 3 weeks use. Tough to be that disciplined.
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
Just go for a boat ride and dump it overboard. Nobody swims in that cold PNW anyway.
bill.read
Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
- Messages
- 5
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Pea Pod
- Vessel Make
- 1987 36 Grand Banks Classic
3 1/2 years ago I purchased a 36 Grand Banks Classic in mid-state New York and shipped overland to La Conner, WA. The total out of pocket costs not including purchase was $32,984.00. There are many unexpected costs in purchasing on the east coast. My approximate breakdown was as follows: WA sales tax: $10,314.00, shipping cost: $19,167.00, east coast yard fee: $3,000.00, WA yard fee: $1036.00, preview trip: $900.00, survey $500.00, documentation fee: $669.00, NY-Annapolis-Seattle (transportation, lodging, food, tools, incidentals): $7,712.00, plus 3 weeks of personal time. 75% of the labor in the yards was done by me.
Transporting a boat overland is very hard on the vessel. Most boats on the east coast arrive by water transport. Keel to bridge height is critical for truck transport and determines if it can be done or not. Approximately 13' is the maximum allowance and in my case it required transport mileage total of just over 4000 miles due to many required detours and pilot cars. The result was the purchase of the best boat for me but it required over 1 year of research and comparison of available boats. Keep in mind that Florida boats suffer from environmental damages different from PNW. It would probably be in your best interest to purchase in the PNW for the boat best suited for your needs and wants.
Good luck in your pursuit...
Transporting a boat overland is very hard on the vessel. Most boats on the east coast arrive by water transport. Keel to bridge height is critical for truck transport and determines if it can be done or not. Approximately 13' is the maximum allowance and in my case it required transport mileage total of just over 4000 miles due to many required detours and pilot cars. The result was the purchase of the best boat for me but it required over 1 year of research and comparison of available boats. Keep in mind that Florida boats suffer from environmental damages different from PNW. It would probably be in your best interest to purchase in the PNW for the boat best suited for your needs and wants.
Good luck in your pursuit...
Larry H
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 359
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Jacari Maru
- Vessel Make
- 2014 Ranger Tug R-27
If you are cruising in the Puget sound, San Juans or Gulf Islands-Victoria or Vancouver areas, there are pumpouts available. If in the remote areas of BC, pumping over the side is legal and required, as pumpouts are few and far between. BC has restricted areas, where no discharge is allowed, but in allowed areas, pumping in the middle of larger channels, while cruising along, is the norm.
A holding tank of 30 to 50 gallons is probably good for at least a week for two people.
However, when you cross into BC from the PNW, please don't abuse our waters by dumping just anywhere. Respect goes a long way towards friendly relations.
And Craig, we do swim up here.
Hello Craig,
We had to postpone the visit to the Oxnard boats yesterday. Wife was called in for an emergency surgery, just as we were heading out the door. Hope to see them next Sunday.
C lectric
Guru
Twin Diesels. Powerful enough to handle PNW currents. I like the economy of Lehman 120s, but not sure if they are sufficient.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thousands of boats transit the fast passes every year with no trouble including very low powered boats. It just takes some planning. If you are thinking you can just bull your way through all of them then think again. Several passes are faster and there is lots of debris in them. You will simply find that debris faster. Good for the shipyards.
I'm not saying don't get that more powerfull boat but I'm also serious about the planning aspect. If you do not learn that bulling is not always a good idea then you may head for trouble.
The extra speed can be an advantage but be carefull about your thinking of its use.
Sometimes those fast currents can also produce miserable/dangerous wave conditions if the wind opposes the current.
Even with a 50' boat the most efficient , fuel use, speed will be around ~ 8knots.
I won't comment on the boat suitability since I have experience there to offer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thousands of boats transit the fast passes every year with no trouble including very low powered boats. It just takes some planning. If you are thinking you can just bull your way through all of them then think again. Several passes are faster and there is lots of debris in them. You will simply find that debris faster. Good for the shipyards.
I'm not saying don't get that more powerfull boat but I'm also serious about the planning aspect. If you do not learn that bulling is not always a good idea then you may head for trouble.
The extra speed can be an advantage but be carefull about your thinking of its use.
Sometimes those fast currents can also produce miserable/dangerous wave conditions if the wind opposes the current.
Even with a 50' boat the most efficient , fuel use, speed will be around ~ 8knots.
I won't comment on the boat suitability since I have experience there to offer.
The mere thought of dumping in open waters makes me cringe. May be it's a rookie thing, but I'll be avoiding it, as much as possible. If it takes a detour to find the next pump out station, so be it. The view is always magnificient up there, no matter where we'll end up navigating.
On the other hand, my wife is quick to point out that transient and resident whales, and all sorts of other marine life happen to pee and poop in those waters, as well. And the waters do not seem to be affected or 'disrespected' by it one bit.
We've made a few 1 week trips to Vancouver Island in the last 2 years (August & October0. First to Alert Bay and more recently to Campbel River. Did all the obligatory water tours for bear sighting, fishing, and marine life viewing. We just love it up there!
dhays
Guru
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 9,567
- Location
- Gig Harbor, WA
- Vessel Name
- Kinship
- Vessel Make
- 2010 North Pacific 43
I have become so accustomed to pumping my holding tank that I too really hate dumping overboard. It is strictly illegal in WA state waters without a treament system (and shortly that will be illegal as well). When we went to BC last summer it was surprising that pump-outs were extremely hard to find. Instead, we followed the rules and dumped the holding tank in the middle of large channels at our cruise speed. I have become so ingrained to not do this that it was a very difficult thing for me to do.
Fredp
Veteran Member
Two of your must haves I have to wonder about for a NW boat. An aft cabin: You can not see aft from a lower helm with and aft cabin. Many aft cabins become hall ways to get to the aft deck and way to many steps up and down. Aft cabins cut down on the size of the rear deck. When you get to a 45 to 50 foot boat forward and or lower mid cabins have lots of room. I see no need for AC in a NW boat. On the hottest days I don't think we have seen anything over 75* if that in the boat.
Fred P...........
Fred P...........
Holy Crappola, Batman!!
As of right now, aft cabin is a must. Once we charter and see the difference, we may very well change our minds. We prefer those with a direct door to the cockpit like some Californians have. I think Marine Traders also have a model like that.
If the boat we choose has straight up ladders to the aft deck or flybridge, they will be modified with a solif step ladder or an addition of block steps to make it easier for the dogs (and us). We already measured a couple of boats we've seen and it only takes about 20"-24" of additional surface space.
The AC is a 2nd season project, if needed. I could care less about it, but Mrs. Wonderful is dreading any number of hot days without AC. Can't blame her for worrying, we're sick and tired of the 11 months of hot weather in socal, with only 2 weeks of spring, 1 week of fall and just 3-4 days of sof winter. Time to give our buns a well deserved freeze, lol.
Thank you B&B,
I do appreciate your comments.
Fore main bed is a definite no-no for me. I lived aboard a 45' center cockpit Peterson sailbot 3.5 decades (and 90lbs) ago for almost 2 years. I had the fore cabin I did not enjoy the splash, rolling and noise, but the privacy was great.
I often wonder what happened to Drummer and Bob Harvey. We made a bit of a name for ourselves in Montego Bay in the early 80s.
BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
- Messages
- 13,549
- Vessel Name
- Sojourn
- Vessel Make
- Integrity 386
Some trawler bow cabins get water slap, some don`t, my IG does not, could be the 1" thick hull. Plenty have a comfy semi island, queen size or thereabouts, bed. I`m no fan of the sundeck style boat,it gives the best aft cabin, but too many stairs/changes of level for my liking, it`s a personal thing.
sunchaser
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 10,298
- Location
- usa
- Vessel Name
- sunchaser V
- Vessel Make
- DeFever 48 (sold)
Fred, what aft cabin vessels are you referencing? Doesn't sound like the 45 to 50 foot Defevers, GBs, Tollys, OAs etc I've been on. Tom's Alaska Seaduction is another very user friendly aft cabin design. I've been on the Nordhavn CP59 with an aft cabin, really nice. I'd say the OP is with some good thinking, let him choose the style that suits him and the pocket book.
Virtually all ACS are heat pumps and wonderful to have when at the dock or on genset in cold weather. Also when cruising in cool, wet and foggy weather a heat pump is one heck of a demister.And, I have enjoyed AC in Juneau during the summer.
