Best Topside paint
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tiltrider1
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Are we painting the whole boat? Painting just stripes? Talking a DYI paint job or having professionals? Roller painting or spray?
Comodave
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For DIY look at Alexseal. You can roll it without tipping.
STB
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I've used three for the house and hull: Awlgrip, Perfection, and Brightside. All in "Snow White".
With respect to performance, Awlgrip was king. Nothing bothered it. Not fenders. Not the dock. Not the ladder. Nothing. What would look like bad dock rubs would be the dock rubbing off onto it and would wipe off with solvent. It is fairly straight-forward to apply and rolls-and-tips to the same finish one would get with spraying. The downsides are that the fumes are particularly toxic and that it does not repair well. When I've needed to touch it up, e.g. moving hardware, one can always see the edge of the new layer on top of the old layer. Buffing out the edge and waxing works -- until the wax ages and then there is a dull spot. On balance, I'm a big Awlgrip fan.
The PO of my boat painted it with Perfection, so I've kept using it. I know it is supposed to be more DYI friendly that Awlgrip, but I actually find that Awlgrip rolls-and-tips better, at least when properly reduced, etc. Perfection is also softer. It does get rubs, etc, more easily than Awlgrip. But, I've actually been glad to have it on the boat. I'm not super picky about the paint. So, I haven't even bothered to roll-and-tip it, just rolled it with a foam roller. It isn't as smooth, but still looks very good unless super closely examined. And, with all of the storms we get in Florida, and the few hurricanes that have passed too close for comfort, and the occasional dock rub, I've been glad for how well it touches up. I sand the area and slap on some more with a foam roller. The edges seem to melt together well enough. I'd recommend Awlgrip all day long for someone who wants the best possible, best performing finish. But, I'm way happier with the Perfection than I've ever imagined I'd be. The repairability is just so worth it to me. If someone else later wants a more perfect finish, they'll probably have to hit it with some 180 grit and then maybe 220 grit, and then throw a coat of Awlgrip onto it. Unlike a 1-part, Awlgrip can go right over it.
I used Brightside for touch up work, the console, etc, on my prior boat before repainting it with Awlgrip. It was certainly not as good as either Perfection or Awlgrip, but it was plenty shiny and plenty durable for a boat. And, it looked good and was reasonably repairable. We had to sand and prime over it before we could apply awlgrip.
For my decks, I've used Awlgrip+GripTex, Perfection, Lusid NorthStar + Fas-Grip, and Kiwigrip. I've been happy with none of the above.
Awlgrip just didn't last, for my definition of last. It was applied by priming; painting a layer of awlgrip; painting another layer of awlgrip and, while it was wet, pouring TONS of GripTex over it to totally cover it; letting it dry; vacuuming up the tons of extra grip tex; and applying another layer of Awlgrip over that. In at least one attempt, painting two coats of Awlgrip to top it off. It looked beautiful when done. A years layer it had a bazillion little dots where the texture broke through. It would stay like that forever, but I didn't like the look.
A PO of my boat had used Perfection and some unknown texture product. It didn't seem to last super well. It just wore through.
A contractor I hired used something called Lusid Northstar. I was super impressed by
how well it sprayed (with the Fas Grip texture), the shine, and the durability of the shine. Unfortunately, it had a peeling problem. I don't know if it was the paint or the prep -- the contractor bullhead refused to prime for any amount of money. I thought he was priming, when I found out he wasn't, I begged him to prime and offered to pay more, up to double the job cost, but he refused. Swore it didn't need to be primed and he wasn't going to waste his time, even for money. He had a bunch of warranty calls and the quit calling back or answering TXTs. I ended up sanding it off.
I used KiwiGrip next. I was impressed with how easily it went on. And, I like how user-controllable the texture is. I like that the color is all the way through. I like its effectiveness as a non-skid surface. But, I've got a list of "don't likes", too. It wears way faster than any of the other paints I've tried. It isn't super noticeable because the color goes all the way through. But, the careful observer can notice the difference in texture right by the boarding ladder and to a lesser extent between there and the helm door. Having said that, I think it wears better than Awlgrip or Perfection in this application. I also don't like that it stains. Everyday dirt just stains it and makes it look blotchy. I'd probably care less if all of my decks were painted with it. But, only my forward decks are. My side and aft decks are protected and are nice teak. I don't want them messed up by any harsh chemical cleaners. And, everything from the forward deck drains onto them. So, if dish soap and water won't clean it, it stays dirty. It is what it is. It still looks "okay" and is super protective of the decks, of the people using them, and has a lot of life left in it.
Hope this helps a little.
With respect to performance, Awlgrip was king. Nothing bothered it. Not fenders. Not the dock. Not the ladder. Nothing. What would look like bad dock rubs would be the dock rubbing off onto it and would wipe off with solvent. It is fairly straight-forward to apply and rolls-and-tips to the same finish one would get with spraying. The downsides are that the fumes are particularly toxic and that it does not repair well. When I've needed to touch it up, e.g. moving hardware, one can always see the edge of the new layer on top of the old layer. Buffing out the edge and waxing works -- until the wax ages and then there is a dull spot. On balance, I'm a big Awlgrip fan.
The PO of my boat painted it with Perfection, so I've kept using it. I know it is supposed to be more DYI friendly that Awlgrip, but I actually find that Awlgrip rolls-and-tips better, at least when properly reduced, etc. Perfection is also softer. It does get rubs, etc, more easily than Awlgrip. But, I've actually been glad to have it on the boat. I'm not super picky about the paint. So, I haven't even bothered to roll-and-tip it, just rolled it with a foam roller. It isn't as smooth, but still looks very good unless super closely examined. And, with all of the storms we get in Florida, and the few hurricanes that have passed too close for comfort, and the occasional dock rub, I've been glad for how well it touches up. I sand the area and slap on some more with a foam roller. The edges seem to melt together well enough. I'd recommend Awlgrip all day long for someone who wants the best possible, best performing finish. But, I'm way happier with the Perfection than I've ever imagined I'd be. The repairability is just so worth it to me. If someone else later wants a more perfect finish, they'll probably have to hit it with some 180 grit and then maybe 220 grit, and then throw a coat of Awlgrip onto it. Unlike a 1-part, Awlgrip can go right over it.
I used Brightside for touch up work, the console, etc, on my prior boat before repainting it with Awlgrip. It was certainly not as good as either Perfection or Awlgrip, but it was plenty shiny and plenty durable for a boat. And, it looked good and was reasonably repairable. We had to sand and prime over it before we could apply awlgrip.
For my decks, I've used Awlgrip+GripTex, Perfection, Lusid NorthStar + Fas-Grip, and Kiwigrip. I've been happy with none of the above.
Awlgrip just didn't last, for my definition of last. It was applied by priming; painting a layer of awlgrip; painting another layer of awlgrip and, while it was wet, pouring TONS of GripTex over it to totally cover it; letting it dry; vacuuming up the tons of extra grip tex; and applying another layer of Awlgrip over that. In at least one attempt, painting two coats of Awlgrip to top it off. It looked beautiful when done. A years layer it had a bazillion little dots where the texture broke through. It would stay like that forever, but I didn't like the look.
A PO of my boat had used Perfection and some unknown texture product. It didn't seem to last super well. It just wore through.
A contractor I hired used something called Lusid Northstar. I was super impressed by
how well it sprayed (with the Fas Grip texture), the shine, and the durability of the shine. Unfortunately, it had a peeling problem. I don't know if it was the paint or the prep -- the contractor bullhead refused to prime for any amount of money. I thought he was priming, when I found out he wasn't, I begged him to prime and offered to pay more, up to double the job cost, but he refused. Swore it didn't need to be primed and he wasn't going to waste his time, even for money. He had a bunch of warranty calls and the quit calling back or answering TXTs. I ended up sanding it off.
I used KiwiGrip next. I was impressed with how easily it went on. And, I like how user-controllable the texture is. I like that the color is all the way through. I like its effectiveness as a non-skid surface. But, I've got a list of "don't likes", too. It wears way faster than any of the other paints I've tried. It isn't super noticeable because the color goes all the way through. But, the careful observer can notice the difference in texture right by the boarding ladder and to a lesser extent between there and the helm door. Having said that, I think it wears better than Awlgrip or Perfection in this application. I also don't like that it stains. Everyday dirt just stains it and makes it look blotchy. I'd probably care less if all of my decks were painted with it. But, only my forward decks are. My side and aft decks are protected and are nice teak. I don't want them messed up by any harsh chemical cleaners. And, everything from the forward deck drains onto them. So, if dish soap and water won't clean it, it stays dirty. It is what it is. It still looks "okay" and is super protective of the decks, of the people using them, and has a lot of life left in it.
Hope this helps a little.
Comodave
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Kiwigrip is great, used it on our last boats decks. Yes it is more work keeping it clean. So I used Woody Wax on it. WW isn’t slippery after it dries, made for surfboards. It helps cleaning bird poop, etc off. And WW is extremely easy to apply. Wash the deck and while it is still wet spray on the WW and brush it around. Let it dry for about half an hour and rinse the excess off.
It would be all topsides I’m looking to paint if I get this boat
Comodave
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DIY or paid work?
In areas of high wear or high uv exposure a catalyzed paint is best. Most of those are urethane paints.
Original awlgrip is a polyester urethane. As is DuPont imron. These are extremely tough paints, but the down side is they aren’t repairable. You can’t wet sand and buff to an invisible repair.
The other choice would be acrylic urethane. Many manufacturers of this. Still two part paint, still pretty tough, but repairable.
Single part paints are easy to apply, paint like bright side or easypoxy. I have experimented using universal hardener in these with good result.
I prefer to use polyester urethane on the hull sides, and acrylic urethane on the top sides.
Deck coatings are another story altogether.
Original awlgrip is a polyester urethane. As is DuPont imron. These are extremely tough paints, but the down side is they aren’t repairable. You can’t wet sand and buff to an invisible repair.
The other choice would be acrylic urethane. Many manufacturers of this. Still two part paint, still pretty tough, but repairable.
Single part paints are easy to apply, paint like bright side or easypoxy. I have experimented using universal hardener in these with good result.
I prefer to use polyester urethane on the hull sides, and acrylic urethane on the top sides.
Deck coatings are another story altogether.
Best for DIY
tiltrider1
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Different people have different skill levels.
Single part epoxy paints from Pettit and Interlux are the easiest to work with but i wouldn’t use it for anything more than an accent stripe.
Two part epoxy such as perfection is very easy to use. It holds up pretty well even on walking surfaces. It is very repairable and easy to blend in so you can paint in stages.
I don’t have any experience with Axelseal maybe some one else can comment on repairability and painting in stages.
Alwgrip is certainly one of the ultimate finishes, I just find it is beyond most amateurs.
Single part epoxy paints from Pettit and Interlux are the easiest to work with but i wouldn’t use it for anything more than an accent stripe.
Two part epoxy such as perfection is very easy to use. It holds up pretty well even on walking surfaces. It is very repairable and easy to blend in so you can paint in stages.
I don’t have any experience with Axelseal maybe some one else can comment on repairability and painting in stages.
Alwgrip is certainly one of the ultimate finishes, I just find it is beyond most amateurs.
STB
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Interlux Perfection is a "Two-part, linear type, aliphatic polyurethane" (1), in the same chemical class of paints as Awlgrip. It was intended to be more accessible for DIYers. I think most of that was w.r.t. the hazard of the fumes vs the workability of the paint. I actually find Awlgrip easier to roll-and-tip. But, I don't know anyone who will paint it without some type of appropriate respirator, even outdoors in the open. Whereas, even though Perfection, like any similar paint, should be painted with a respirator -- I don't know anyone who has done that when painting in the open outdoors. I've already comment that, in my experience, AwlGrip is more durable.
I know folks like to say that 1 part is easier than 2 part, but, for the most part, I haven't found that. I've found that good paints of both types, when properly reduced, roll and tip very well. And, in any case, a little experimentation is needed w.r.t. reducing, especially when days are extreme in temperature, sunlight, or humidity.
What I have found is that figuring out how much 2-part to mix, keeping it appropriately reduced in the bucket, and keeping a steady supply as I'm working is more complicated than 1-part. With one part, port some into a small bucket, thin until it rolls off of the mixing stick right, pour into the tray and roll-and-tip. It is a really quick interruption in the workflow, maybe 5 minutes. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
With 2-part, It takes 20 minutes for the paint to settle after mixing and before it can be reduced for use. So, it turns out to be, all in, a ~30 minute delay for more paint. If too much is mixed, it gets wasted, either because it is left over or it loses a good consistency and is beyond a little bit of retempering. If too little is mixed, now one is half way through a panel and now what? The whole panel needs to be let dry, sanded to clean up the edge, and repainted. One can't just pick up later, or there is a line.
With 2-part, it helps more than usual to have a helper, because they can not only help rolling on the paint before you top it off, but they can also go run off and mix more before you run out, while you can still paint, so you never end up with an edge. I think.
For my present boat, I've been a lot less picky -- and been very happy about that. I'll do quick touch ups anytime something bothers me and not be concerned that it isn't all one film.
But, some of the best advice I got for DIY painting was from a professional who did my last boat (I "helped" around the edges). He could paint in any dry weather, but he was constantly changing the mix as the day went on. Morning was different than afternoon. Direct sun was different than indirect sun or shade. Hot was different than cooler. Humid was different than dry. It was a multi-dimensional optimization problem. He did it just by the way it dripped into the bucket.
He told me that took years, if not decades, to master. And, instead I should just divide the job up into as small sections as possible that can be done in 0-2 hours, up to 3 hours if really needed, and do them one a time, just one section each morning. The goal being to work while it was still moderate temperatures and overcast. And, if overcast wasn't going to be a thing, to turn the boat so I'd be working on the opposite side from the sun and it would shade itself. He basically said to mix it by the book, if in doubt over thin by just a little, and go for it.
The basic idea was that since I wasn't experienced enough to mix the paint perfectly to the weather, especially during the harshest and most rapidly changing parts of the day -- I should plan the job to paint only when conditions were perfect and most forgiving for the paint.
That advice was spot on. I think.
[1] Page 11, https://international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/Guidance/perfection-bulletin-usa-eng.pdf
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Comodave
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Alexseal by far. They have an additive that lets you roll it on without tipping. Check out Boatworkstoday.com. He has a bunch of videos on how to prep and paint. You can join for $3 a month and he will give you advice.
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STB
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Perfection: ~$93/quart. $90 USD/quart kit (base and converter) + $3/3oz brushing reducer ($30/quart brushing reducer)
Lusid Northstar: ~132.50/qt. $35 USD/qt ($135 USD/gallon paint) + $95 USD/qt activator + $2.50 USD/2.5oz reducer ($25 USD /qt reducer)
AwlGrip: ~$170/quart. $90 USD/quart base + $65 USD/pint converter + $7/5.5oz brushing reducer ($40 USD/quart brushing reducer)
Kiwi Grip: ~$50 USD/quart
...the coverage for Perfection and Awlgrip is "about" the same.
...KiwiGrip covers about 60% as much as Awlgrip or Perfection, if that. But, for decks, Kiwigrip is 1-2 coat without primer and, depending upon how one does it, Perfection or Awlgrip ona deck can be primer + paint + grit + 1-2 coats.
I didn't do the Lusid Northstar myself, except for touch-ups, so I can't comment about coverage.
mvweebles
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A liveabowrd couple on a 45 foot sailboat painted their boat in brightside. Tool a long summer of evenings and weekends. They were very patient and meticulous about their work. I bumped into them 15 years later and their boat still looked good.
Peter
Peter
Comodave
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I like Brightside and have used it a lot but if I am going to paint the whole boat I want a 2 part paint so it will last longer. Too much work to redo it. However painting with a 2 part is more difficult except for Alexseal since you can just roll it with no tipping.
HopCar
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This is the method I ended up choosing as the easiest with a long lasting paint. Roll it on. No tipping required.
?...By the way Rolling Perfection took me from very erratic results rolling and tipping to a star painter with gloss so shiny you use it to shave with. *Thanks...? D.P. ?rocketkayak?
?...By the way Rolling Perfection took me from very erratic results rolling and tipping to a star painter with gloss so shiny you use it to shave with. *Thanks...? D.P. ?rocketkayak?
mvweebles
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Definitely agree with you on the hull, maybe decks. But anywhere you have to work around ports, fittings, etc. while keeping a wet edge is really slow going. I don't think pot life with any two part would be easy to work with.
I have to say, I was really impressed when I saw the couple's boat 15 years on. They were on their way from San Francisco to France and the Med
Peter
PM
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I did my hull with Brightside with a brush. That was a few years ago, I have not needed to repaint yet, it still looks good. If you look close you can tell it is a brush job but unless you get your nose right into it you really can't tell.
A couple hundred dollars versus many thousand for a professional job.
Here is the BIG hint. PREP! Scrub it well, use the real TSP ( available on Amazon, not the non-phospate) I then rinsed with vinegar and then a quick hose off with fresh water. You can easily do one side of a 36 foot boat in one day, especially with a little help.
It's not rocket science.
pete
A couple hundred dollars versus many thousand for a professional job.
Here is the BIG hint. PREP! Scrub it well, use the real TSP ( available on Amazon, not the non-phospate) I then rinsed with vinegar and then a quick hose off with fresh water. You can easily do one side of a 36 foot boat in one day, especially with a little help.
It's not rocket science.
pete
SailorGreg
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This responds to the Alexseql repairability question. My air vents and other metal trim are painted with Alexseal two part paint. A few were corroded so I sanded down the areas of corrosion, taped off and spot painted. Paint color matched well. No skill here on blending in so there are fine lines at the tape edges. I might buff them out some day….
I happened to have the pigment but one also needs a can of reducer and a can of converter, each $75 or so. I used a cheap Prevail aerosol paint sprayer ($10 for two). The sprayer was a bit fussy, but worked ok.
The final job is >5’ quality ( don’t get closer than 5’ and it looks ok). With a bit of practice, this technique would work well on dings and scratches and general small repairs.
PhilPB
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I paid to have everything from the deck up painted with awlgrip arctic white. They rolled and brushed it on. Depends on how close you get can you tell is wasn't sprayed. Aside from the not perfect finish, the stuff is indestructible and cleans up unbelievably easy. I will need (ok, want) to do the hull in the next year or so and will probably use the same stuff. Cost is crazy. Based on the price for a gallon with the activator and curing solution being about $1000, it's not cheap but looks great. At this point I've given up keeping a running total of how much I spend.
Nomad Willy
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The biggest difference in performance of paints for boats in in preparation of surface.
We’ve used Brightside for 15 or more (probably more) years and never had a complaint. Never gone looking for better.
Some fishermen use house paint. I could almost do that after my latest experience with a gallon of house paint. It was white and very brush able. A joy to use. Just went out to look at the can. May be a commercial product as I saw a lot of specifications but no brand name as usual. I remember where I got it. E &E Lumber but I think it’s a local small chain. Don’t know how hard it is to get off.
But the high tech super ingredient marine finishes much talked about here aren’t necessary.
We’ve used Brightside for 15 or more (probably more) years and never had a complaint. Never gone looking for better.
Some fishermen use house paint. I could almost do that after my latest experience with a gallon of house paint. It was white and very brush able. A joy to use. Just went out to look at the can. May be a commercial product as I saw a lot of specifications but no brand name as usual. I remember where I got it. E &E Lumber but I think it’s a local small chain. Don’t know how hard it is to get off.
But the high tech super ingredient marine finishes much talked about here aren’t necessary.
Comodave
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Better not to know how much you have spent. My wife doesn’t even ask anymore.
Southern Boater
Senior Member
Regarding the following International’s products, does anybody know what these are in “real life”, as opposed to the fancy International names, or are they specifically designed by Int. for their paint systems?
Brushing reducer 2333N
Fibreglass Solvent Wash 202
Fibreglass Surface Prep YMA 601
Brushing reducer 2333N
Fibreglass Solvent Wash 202
Fibreglass Surface Prep YMA 601
Southern Boater
Senior Member
Exactly right mate, don’t do it to yourself. It’s a bottomless pit, just commit and keep going
Comodave
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When I am painting a boat I use only the manufacturers products. I don’t want to spend hundreds of hours prepping for a paint job only to have the paint fail due to some obscure incompatibility between the reducer, etc and the paint. And if I have a failure I want the manufacturer to stand behind their product. You might save a few bucks by using a different manufacturers reducer, etc but at what possible price if the paint fails. The actual paint products aren’t that expensive compared to all my labor, IMO.
Southern Boater
Senior Member
All good points D, yes, you do need as many odds in your favour as possible, especially taking on a big project as an amateur. International do cover themselves, from what I understand though, by stating this paint system should only be applied by a professional painter.
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Comodave
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I have painted 4 boats in my boating time. We rolled and tipped 3 and sprayed one of them. It is a tremendous amount of work. But the boats came out looking beautiful. And the overall cost wasn’t bad even with buying all the same products in comparison to having the boats done by a yard.
