Best stabilization

[RedRascal]

...I had to do a fair amount of structural glass work on my Grand Banks when I added fins to it...

Not sure which flavor of Grand Banks you had but prior to adding fins on your GB did you experiment with a steadying sail?

 

[Simi 60]

Good point about plywood fish. The Kolstrand galvanized ones are readily available in the US. Wonder why bother with plywood?

They dont smash your hull up on retrieval.

 

[BandB]

Other thing I wonder about with gyros is this business of gensets. Just like most electrical devices they take considerable energy to get going but once up to the required rpm energy requirements fall significantly. Was taught when you run the genset it’s good to have a decent load on it. Usually at anchor your AP is off and many turn off their entire nav system. Unless you’re going in/out of the frig/freezer all the time the compressor loads are about the same. Most times you don’t need or want HVAC running. In fact often just a couple of solar panels is enough at anchor. So does that mean to get full use out of a gyro you need to run a genset at low load and decrease it’s service life?
See this differently for mega yachts where the air handlers are always on or ships but I’m a small time operator so wouldn’t this apply?

Key Sentence-"Was taught when you run the genset it's good to have a decent load on it."

Problem-Like many things people have long heard or were long ago taught that's a major exaggeration when looking at today's recommendations. Northern Lights says their gensets run best between 25% and 75% load but make it clear that occasionally running outside that range isn't a problem.

It's highly unlikely that the gyro combined with other things in use will fall below a decent number on a reasonably sized genset. Refrigerators and freezers are large consumers of electricity, and that's without heavy opening and closing even. I don't see a gyro decreasing your genset life except to the degree it's just run a few more hours.

Now many smaller boats have chosen to have two gensets often with one much smaller than the other, but sometimes two identical. Larger boats always have more than one genset so 15% need is 30% load on one genset.

In real use, I've not known anyone who felt their gyro was hurting their generator. We run our gensets anytime we're away from the dock. Air conditioning units come on and off changing the load all the time, without harm.

I see the challenge being boaters who are very resistant to running their generators at anchor. I have known many of them to shut down they gyro in order to not run the generator. Fine I guess, if calm. But if waves, it just seems like a mental block to be worked through. Much comes from times when generators were much noisier. Other from sailboat days when halyards banging were ok but generators were the devil's work.

Another plus to running your generator is reducing battery wear and inverter use if one has an inverter.

 

[Simi 60]

Refrigerators and freezers are large consumers of electricity, and that's without heavy opening and closing even.

Some of us dont need genset to run them.
2.2kw of solar, appropriate sized battery bank and inverter has the genset only being used on a cloudy/rainy day

Now many smaller boats have chosen to have two gensets often with one much smaller than the other, but sometimes two identical. Larger boats always have more than one genset so 15% need is 30% load on one genset.

Phew, good to know 60ft doesnt count as a large boat anymore

We run our gensets anytime we're away from the dock. Air conditioning units come on and off changing the load all the time, without harm.

I see the challenge being boaters who are very resistant to running their generators at anchor.

No A/C needed on ours and we live in the tropics
Full time cruising at anchor every night for over 4 years and I can count on one hand bad nights sleep due to roll at anchor so wouldn't need to run for sea keeper either
Big boats....(sorry, I am not a big boat, only one genset ) tend to suck up the slop well

Another plus to running your generator is reducing battery wear and inverter use if one has an inverter.

Solar panels work better than a genset
People rarely get to full SOC on genset alone but it happens every day with a decent solar array.

 

[Fletcher500]

BB Quote: "I see the challenge being boaters who are very resistant to running their generators at anchor. I have known many of them to shut down they gyro in order to not run the generator. Fine I guess, if calm. But if waves, it just seems like a mental block to be worked through. Much comes from times when generators were much noisier. Other from sailboat days when halyards banging were ok but generators were the devil's work."

I believe we covered this a few months ago, in that some people don't want to consume as much as fuel as you do. You have a very large boat with two large engines and multiple generators, a Captain to drive you around, and an Engineer doing all of your PM's and they will get you out of a fix if anything mechanical breaks. All good, I am sure you worked hard to afford these things and your lifestyle.

You keep expressing your opinion as to why someone wouldn't want to run their Gyro all day, 24/7, and and now it's "mental blocks to be worked through" to directly quote you.

We were out cruising approximately 4 of the last 5 months and that includes lots of boon docking, IE, no shore power cords. I would therefore only run the Gen while underway, and on a rare occasion when it was very rolly polly while at anchor or on a mooring ball. I think that is a reasonable approach for us being able to enjoy the boat, and not consume copious amounts of fuel and the environmental aspects. I therefore started a thread asking about passive anti roll devices to use while at anchor or on a ball, and I got some great feedback on that.

Everyone needs to run their boat how they see fit, and what works best for them. What I don't think is productive on these forums is the passive aggressive criticism, and the knee jerk reactions to say X is bad, why, because it just sounds bad even though I know little to nothing about X.

We are all fortunate to be able to go boating. "Roll" with it, accept other peoples choices, and be happy you are vertical and not horizontal.

All right Fellas, I told myself I wouldn't jump in on another Gyro thread, and here I am doing it again after reading "Gyros are dangerous" at the beginning of this thread. I responded to this thread because I wanted others who may be considering a Gyro to hear from someone who has actually used one (for almost 3 years now) as opposed to what he said, she said.

No more posting for me regarding Gyros. I am toast. Fletch - out.

 

[BandB]

BB Quote: "I see the challenge being boaters who are very resistant to running their generators at anchor. I have known many of them to shut down they gyro in order to not run the generator. Fine I guess, if calm. But if waves, it just seems like a mental block to be worked through. Much comes from times when generators were much noisier. Other from sailboat days when halyards banging were ok but generators were the devil's work."

I believe we covered this a few months ago, in that some people don't want to consume as much as fuel as you do. You have a very large boat with two large engines and multiple generators, a Captain to drive you around, and an Engineer doing all of your PM's and they will get you out of a fix if anything mechanical breaks. All good, I am sure you worked hard to afford these things and your lifestyle.

You keep expressing your opinion as to why someone wouldn't want to run their Gyro all day, 24/7, and and now it's "mental blocks to be worked through" to directly quote you.

We were out cruising approximately 4 of the last 5 months and that includes lots of boon docking, IE, no shore power cords. I would therefore only run the Gen while underway, and on a rare occasion when it was very rolly polly while at anchor or on a mooring ball. I think that is a reasonable approach for us being able to enjoy the boat, and not consume copious amounts of fuel and the environmental aspects. I therefore started a thread asking about passive anti roll devices to use while at anchor or on a ball, and I got some great feedback on that.

Everyone needs to run their boat how they see fit, and what works best for them. What I don't think is productive on these forums is the passive aggressive criticism, and the knee jerk reactions to say X is bad, why, because it just sounds bad even though I know little to nothing about X.

We are all fortunate to be able to go boating. "Roll" with it, accept other peoples choices, and be happy you are vertical and not horizontal.

All right Fellas, I told myself I wouldn't jump in on another Gyro thread, and here I am doing it again after reading "Gyros are dangerous" at the beginning of this thread. I responded to this thread because I wanted others who may be considering a Gyro to hear from someone who has actually used one (for almost 3 years now) as opposed to what he said, she said.

No more posting for me regarding Gyros. I am toast. Fletch - out.

Fletch toast.

I'm glad you posted in support of Gyros as the "Gyros are dangerous" is very misleading.

The problem with my fuel consumption isn't from the generators as they're a very small part of it. And I freely admit to overconsuming on the water. I do attempt to balance that out in other ways, but I like boating and I like doing it at speed. So guilty as charged.

I stick with some having mental blocks on running generators. Obviously you don't. That's not meant as an attack on anyone as people have mental blocks on many things. I have a mental block on boating in warm climates without air conditioning. I am fine out in the heat, but just not fine indoors with it.

We have a 44' boat with 1 generator so not blind as to other needs. We don't anchor out much in it, but if we did, I'd wish we had a Gyro as it does well at speed but it is rolly when sitting. I'm sure the builder would say it doesn't need anything.

I express my opinion. You express yours. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't.

 

[Hippocampus]

Agree with Simi on this.
Have lived in the tropics for 6 to 8 months out of each year. Unless humid and no wind (rare occurrence when in the trades and anchored) the AC rarely went on. Simple tricks like not wearing cotton only synthetics or wearing black in the shade and white in the sun is more than sufficient to be quite comfortable. It’s nothing to do fuel use but some like a gentle breeze and just natural noises when at anchor. It humidity that forced the AC to go on.

I’m a newbie and I’m here to get the benefit of real world experience and knowledge. I understand there’s different subsets of boaters and their modes of use. Think opinions about stabilization reflect that fact. So think you need to parse out which form of stabilization is best suited for each subset.
Have no dog in this fight. But what I’m getting out of this thread.
If use is coastal so there’s no possibility of effectiveness of a gyro being exceeded gyros have many positives. Particularly nothing outside the hull and effectiveness when at rest.
For a planing hull gyros seem to lead the list. But many planing hulls don’t need stabilization at all given their hydrodynamics and mode of use.
If use is near shore (<200nm) fins have much to offer. No issues with deployment, effective and no issues with function making things worse instead of better. But another key system to worry about and monitor, another service point with another bill of 3-5K periodically given you likely can’t do most of the service yourself. Gyros may still make sense for very large vessels as given the physics their functional limits are unlikely to be exceeded.
No useful information has been presented about Magnus effect devices so no comment can be made. Think it’s not gyros (they’ve been around for quite awhile) but Magnus that’s the new kid.
Paravanes make little sense for most coastal vessels. Although one can optimize deployment and retrieval it’s still a chore. They can’t be used in shoal waters. They add to airdraft and make even be restricted in use in some mooring fields. But they shine in near shore or blue water settings.
You guys have been helpful. For our use will want fins. Once we’re prepped depending upon experience may add fish.

 

[FF]

Noisemaker hate? A way to run the gyro?

If there was enough demand the gen set assemblers would switch over to a DC / inverter system as used by many smaller assemblers for almost 2 decades.

This would have many advantages. A high DC output for the folks with big house banks that culd use a few hundred amps early in the charge cycle.

The ability to feed the propulsion engine output to just the inverter would be a cruising generator that accepted engine RPM changes with ease.

And of course the ability to operate at far lower RPM , yet still have the engine well loaded when minor AC power is needed.

Lower RPM is longer life (fewer piston miles) and less noise in the anchorage.

 

[Hippocampus]

Loved my Northernlights. Totally agree any low rpm engine is preferable. Think linked to Li or carbon a very good solution for small boats. Gets around need to get to full SOC and your battery bank is one less thing to stress about.

 

[sunchaser]

TF comments notwithstanding, gyros (first used in 1917) are entering more and more markets, working their way into all manners of planing vessels. MJM is installing them in their 40-50 foot outboard powered vessels as are a host of other big name builders.

With our old slow trawlers few if any will convert or pay attention to the new build offerings. New and slow by design vessels like Fletchers are an ideal application especially when considering the install cost Vs active stabilizers. Add to the comparison the ongoing higher maintenance of active stabilizers as compared to gyro.

In a new build today, I'd look very hard at a gyro setup Vs active stabilizers. Just as we extol the virtues of sunlight, gravity utilization is a virtue as well. Spinning a big mass is as old as time.

 

[balder8]

We have fins with the excellent Keypower hydraulic fins ( from canada) and with the help of "Voyaging under power" from Mr Beebe and brilliant forums contributions as those from Mr and Mrs Sea Venture, Larry M and others ( read above), I have added paravanes, recently finished!
I expected to use rigid tubes connected to the paravanes but too heavy and diifcult to launch and retreive. I replaced by "classic" fish or stabies as you say with dyneema cable, serious bolted shackle and spring.

 

[Hippocampus]

Used Trawler Yachts for Sale
Trawler yachts have a full-displacement hull and feature a similar design as small commercial fishing boats. Known for their sea keeping ability, Trawlers are capable of making long-ocean passages to more remote locales and have a typical hull speed of 7-10 knots. They provide accommodations for extended living aboard and vary in their interior space and amenities.

This from SYS. Works for me as the definition. Some would distinguish trollers from trawlers to split hairs even further but think it’s the mission that defines the vessel so would lump those two together.
See GB as derived from the classic New England Novi hull so also a work boat derived vessel originally but now on their site they call them “performance cruisers “. The Eastbays are also excellent boats but to my mind aren’t trawlers either. Know I’m being a PIA about this and the minority opinion but still think any vessel that can get up on plane isn’t a trawler. Balder’s vessel is a kickass trawler.Magnificent!!!

 

[balder8]

Used Trawler Yachts for Sale
Trawler yachts have a full-displacement hull and feature a similar design as small commercial fishing boats. Known for their sea keeping ability, Trawlers are capable of making long-ocean passages to more remote locales and have a typical hull speed of 7-10 knots. They provide accommodations for extended living aboard and vary in their interior space and amenities.

This from SYS. Works for me as the definition. Some would distinguish trollers from trawlers to split hairs even further but think it’s the mission that defines the vessel so would lump those two together.
See GB as derived from the classic New England Novi hull so also a work boat derived vessel originally but now on their site they call them “performance cruisers “. The Eastbays are also excellent boats but to my mind aren’t trawlers either. Know I’m being a PIA about this and the minority opinion but still think any vessel that can get up on plane isn’t a trawler. Balder’s vessel is a kickass trawler.Magnificent!!!

Thank you very much Hippocampus ?!

 

[jbinbi]

We have fins with the excellent Keypower hydraulic fins ( from canada) and with the help of "Voyaging under power" from Mr Beebe and brilliant forums contributions as those from Mr and Mrs Sea Venture, Larry M and others ( read above), I have added paravanes, recently finished!

I expected to use rigid tubes connected to the paravanes but too heavy and diifcult to launch and retreive. I replaced by "classic" fish or stabies as you say with dyneema cable, serious bolted shackle and spring.

Beautiful boat.

 

[FF]

"I expected to use rigid tubes connected to the paravanes but too heavy and diifcult to launch and retreive. I replaced by "classic" fish or stabies as you say with dyneema cable, serious bolted shackle and spring."


Some folks have not bothered with poles , they simply attached the paravane line over the toe rail and pulled them up with the boat stopped.

Might be worth the experiment?

Plywood fish would be easy on the hull and cheap to experiment with fish area.

 

[Hippocampus]

FF interesting idea but beyond the convenience don’t understand why you would do that. From the excellent post with the vector diagram one would infer force resisting roll is a function of area of the fish and arm produced by how far away from centerline the fish is placed. So drag and impact on fuel consumption and and speed is inversely related to area of the fish. The smaller the fish the less impact. So one would think you want the longest pole you could get away with to allow the smallest fish to get the resistance to roll you want.

 

[balder8]

"I expected to use rigid tubes connected to the paravanes but too heavy and diifcult to launch and retreive. I replaced by "classic" fish or stabies as you say with dyneema cable, serious bolted shackle and spring."


Some folks have not bothered with poles , they simply attached the paravane line over the toe rail and pulled them up with the boat stopped.

Might be worth the experiment?

Plywood fish would be easy on the hull and cheap to experiment with fish area.

I must say I was really hesitating between vertical poles and horizontal folding arms like those designed for my trawler.
I opted for the second choice.I learned a lot from this forum, thanks every body and access to archives. Balder 8 design, a North Sea trawler built in steel in the Netherlands by Tinnemans BV ( very friendly family) is typical from this country where boatbuilders, architects and boat owners are always thinking " bridges" and "France proof" which means able to go from north to Med through our french canals, with a low air draught. Like your Great Loop in US but shorter... It is the reason why I designed these horizontal poles, mostly used as well in Australia or NZ.The idea is to fold the arms with a small powered motor or with ropes in case of emergency and let the starboard and portside fish come gently on foredeck. The arms are made of galva steel diameter 60mm, 2.5 mm thick. It is quite heavy but move very easily with a bronze ring and a stainless steel tube.
Two dyneema ropes keep the arm at more or less 90 deg when open and underway. Another rope is runned to the stern.
To be honest I do not find a naval architect able to calcule the load at the end of the arm. An structure engineer tried to do some maths about that and we went with an approximative idea of 2,5 tonnes when rolling. The structure is seriously bolted on the deck ( 7mm steel). I can move the arms by simply pushing them by hand. Of course without the fish in suspension.
About fish, I tried to import kolstrand model, from Us to Europe, too expansive, forget it. So we weld some galva steel plate and bolted it to a triangular polypropylène plate.
About weak points and considering my sl strong 10 mm beautiful dyneema splices, I decided to use a stainless spring. I replaced the small 10mm shackles on the pictures by biggerone bolted one.At the beginning, I expected to use a rigid pole with a plate welded, but it was impossible to understand how fisherman in Australia are designing this ki d of rig ( like on the trawler pictured ). I am also concerned by drag. But when fitted , I discover it wa really too heavy with no possibility to adjust the angle of the fish. Considering this way to build paravanes, I kept idea to have no longer cable than the distance between fish and hull, major advantage of rigid tube with a definitive lenght
Hope this will work in addition or not to my fins, no time to test it presently...
Nb: sorry for the broken grammar..

 

[MurrayM]

Well...you did title this thread, "Best Stabilization"

You can always go SWATH: (starts in earnest at around 50 seconds in)

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

FF - not quite sure how paravanes would work right next to the boat. Their effectiveness is directly related to how far off the center line they are. Also, they need to be deep enough not to come out of the water in heavy seas, and at the same time, they should not be able to reach the running gear of the boat. There is a lot of engineering that goes into highly effective paravane systems. I've met a couple of engineers who thought they could design their own systems which were a complete failure.

Sea Venture's poles are 26' long. They extend at a 50 degree angle. The end of the pole when deployed is 20' out from the side of the boat. They are balanced, which means the poles can be deployed and retrieved with very little effort.

At least on Sea Venture, we used a rope and chain combination. Rope down to the water line and chain down to the fish. Cable seems to like to sing, an issue you do not have with chain. The drag difference appears irrelevant, and the chain cuts through everything we have run into - mostly lots of bull kelp in the North Pacific.

Another engineering note I have not seen mentioned, our Naval Architect and yard were very detailed about intentionally creating a weak link in the system. If the fish were to get seriously caught on something, say a very large log, or the bottom, their should be a designed point of failure. Otherwise you may be anchoring your boat at 8 knots. (there are a couple of Canadian fish boats that capsized when their fish got caught) On Sea Venture, the designed point of failure is the chain. Our 5/16" chain has a breaking point of 11,600 lbs.

Another note about larger poles - they make the ride better without the fish deployed. Much like the tight rope walker with his long pole. The poles by themselves do not reduce the degree of roll, but they do increase the roll period, so its all slower and more comfortable.

Also, when the seas are larger, say over 6' or so, I do not think the paravanes deployed have slowed Sea Venture down at all. The rolling slows the boat down without the fish deployed, so once deployed, the two seem to cancel each other out.

While our system is large and was expensive, the results have been fantastic. In 3-5 foot seas the roll remains at 3 degrees or less. In a 8-10' beam seas the roll remains at 10 degrees or less. We have been in very large seas, 12-16' and you can still walk around just fine, set your coffee down, etc.

Our fish themselves are a combination of wood and stainless steel. They are 28" in diameter and weigh 38 lbs. Most of the weight is the 25 lb weight located at the front of the fish. They are made by a fisherman in Westport, WA and sold through Englund Marine. We have a complete 2nd set up on board if needed. You see these fish on lots of boats in Alaska, where we are currently cruising.

Of course, paravanes are not for everyone - personally, I think they are better for long range cruisers. Since in the North Pacific many anchorages are deep we have gone for over a month and never pulled them in.

There are of course, lots of ways to stabilize a boat, but once stabilized folks won't go back if they are doing some longer passages. I understand cruisers who may not see the need when most of their runs are 2 or 3 hours. When we count our passages not in hours but in days the stabilization is an absolute requirement. Nothing is better then being at sea for days and continuing our normal daily routine, getting to our destination fully rested - all this is only possible with good stabilization.

Jim
M/V Sea Venture
www.youtube.com/CruisingSeaVenture

 

[balder8]

Honestly, push ON on my dasboard to activate my Keypower stabs with the panel showing roll degrees on each side, the gps speed interfaced to correct the actuators is also something very relaxing and also efficient. I have always consider paravanes as a serious back up for long distances and avoid to use hydraulic pump etc.

 

[Simi 60]

.

At least on Sea Venture, we used a rope and chain combination. Rope down to the water line and chain down to the fish. Cable seems to like to sing, an issue you do not have with chain. The drag difference appears irrelevant, and the chain cuts through everything we have run into - mostly lots of bull kelp in the North Pacific.

Another engineering note I have not seen mentioned, our Naval Architect and yard were very detailed about intentionally creating a weak link in the system. If the fish were to get seriously caught on something, say a very large log, or the bottom, their should be a designed point of failure. Otherwise you may be anchoring your boat at 8 knots. (there are a couple of Canadian fish boats that capsized when their fish got caught) On Sea Venture, the designed point of failure is the chain. Our 5/16" chain has a breaking point of 11,600 lbs.

It was certainly something I was going to do
And our thoughts were to use nylon rope instead of dyneema on the pole to water length.
Don't need the spring as nylon stretches and the nylon is the fuse.

 

[hollywood8118]

Above needs a correction. Forgot to add in heave. Heave plus roll need to be considered when thinking about force on that first line from the fish. Especially if the fish isn’t in the same wind wave.

You forgot to add the variable quotient depending on fresh vs salt water and percentage of salinity if in fact the vessel is in salt water....
HOLLYWOOD

 

[Hippocampus]

Oh my yes. Thanks

 

[balder8]

You forgot to add the variable quotient depending on fresh vs salt water and percentage of salinity if in fact the vessel is in salt water....
HOLLYWOOD

I hope Mr Elon Musk does'nt rely on similar mathematical calculations to adjust the trajectories of his rockets!

I understood that paravanes are not an exact science...As well, I admire Sea Venture to be so confident with naval architects!!

We use to say in french: "le pire n'est pas certain" ( approximative translation: the worst is not certain"

 

[Cruising Sea Venture]

I hope Mr Elon Musk does'nt rely on similar mathematical calculations to adjust the trajectories of his rockets!

I understood that paravanes are not an exact science...As well, I admire Sea Venture to be so confident with naval architects!!

We use to say in french: "le pire n'est pas certain" ( approximative translation: the worst is not certain"

That would be confident in a naval architect!

We talked to a lot of naval architects. Several said they thought they could design a paravane system, but had not.

Literally, 100% of the commercial fishing fleet in the North Pacific we talked to (where 100's of boats have paravanes), all referred us to the Port Townsends Shipwrights Co-Op. When we contacted them we found a yard that had the required experience in building paravane systems. That lead us to Johnathan Moore, Naval Architect with Tim Nolan Marine Design in Port Townsend, WA. Johnathan not only had extensive experience as a naval architect designing robust workhorse style paravane systems, he also has many years living with them. He is a commercial fisherman as well who owns a fishing boat that fishes Alaska every summer. His only requirement was for us to let him do his work in designing our system. He did not want to design a system that was too small, not strong enough, and in the end, would not give us the end results we wanted. At the time I would have never envisioned such a strong system with 26' long poles. We have now traveled extensively with the system and they have worked flawlessly. This even includes when the system was first completed we intentionally ran into logs and lots of floating debris with them, but never could get any kind of problem to develop.

Still, they are not for everyone, and yes, sometimes it would be nice to push a button for the magic to happen, but for simplicity, ease of repair around the world, and effectiveness at all speeds, for passagemaker boats, I think they are the best solution.

Besides, you look really cool, and we ended up with a crows nest 30' above the water!

Jim,
M/V Sea Venture
www.youtube.com/CruisingSeaVenture

 

[balder8]

QUOTE"Still, they are not for everyone, and yes, sometimes it would be nice to push a button for the magic to happen, but for simplicity, ease of repair around the world, and effectiveness at all speeds, for passagemaker boats, I think they are the best solution."[/I

100% ok with you Jim, it is the reason why I decided to go also with paravanes.
I will tell you very soon ( I am back aboard in Canarias Islands beginning of 2021, if bloody flu and stupid politicians ( ours) permit, how my horizontal paravanes are working.About cost, complete project with accessories, more or less 11000 EUR.
I am not afraid of my rigid steel "panzer", I just want to see how the two fish will dive or not.
I have cruised offshore from the Netherlands to Africa last three years, sometimes in very rough weather and have a plan B when talking about comfort at sea, is of course not stupid!!

Dominique
M/V Balder VIII
mmsi 227 399 280
FAD4970@sailmail.com

 

[jrhodes777]

We have 32 year old hydraulic Naiad stabilizing fins and they have been extremely reliable. Like all fins they require maintenance of the hull penetration bearing and seals every 3-5 years. On the positive side we prefer being able to activate by simply turning a switch. In addition Naiad customer service is terrific. On the other hand paravanes are less hydraulic drag when not in use and also can be deployed when at anchor/mooring to reduce rolling. To me the negative to paravanes is deployment and retrieval and the need for superstructure. In the northeast increasing permanent air draft eliminates passage through under certain fixed bridges such as on the Erie Canal, Champlain Canal and Rideau Canal.

 

[AusCan]

Sail. I think a reasonably sized sail-plan (vs a useless steadying sail) is an under-rated option. Based on personal experience, I find steadying sails to be cute but mostly worthless for stability. But I do think a decent sail plan similar to a DD has merit for a cruising trawler. A sail rig with roller furling may very well be the most expensive option of the lot, and will 'set' the boat on a heel vs stabilize it level, and is not effective on some points of sail (indeed, dead downwind the tall mast may exacerbate roll), but it should be considered, especially for single-engine trawlers with no auxiliary power, albeit it's 'get-somewhere' power vs get-home propulsion. At-anchor stability would require some additional rigging, though fairly simple. There are no hull-appendages, though relatively low risk of losing rig overboard and the accompanying damage should not be ignored. It is also the only stability solution that also provides entertainment. Of all the options, Sail requires the most skill and learning curve, but not extreme. It is also the only system that has a sizeable positive impact on fuel efficiency.

So pick your poison. I don't think one system is the best or the worst. Some are more appropriate for certain types of travel or cruising. All have a long history of many satisfied owners who agree on at least one thing: Whatever you chose, stabilization is rarely viewed as optional, at least for cruising purposes outside of protected waters.

Peter

Peter, I agree that the little handkerchief stuck on some taiwanese trawlers is next to useless for stabilization, but a properly sized steadying sail works wonders for stabilization.

My sail area is about 300 square feet which works out to just under 50 sq ft per ton. Not enough to make much windward headway, but it certainly reduces roll by about 90% with wind on the beam (when roll reduction is needed the most).

 

[Hippocampus]

Spent today looking at a N43. Wasn’t for sale but owner a great guy and very helpful answering questions. Starting to come to terms fins should suffice for our program and will expand search to 40s and 43s. Also,spoke with the broker and confirmed the early Nordhavns were built to accept fish without further structural modifications.

 

[mvweebles]

Spent today looking at a N43. Wasn’t for sale but owner a great guy and very helpful answering questions. Starting to come to terms fins should suffice for our program and will expand search to 40s and 43s. Also,spoke with the broker and confirmed the early Nordhavns were built to accept fish without further structural modifications.

Would like to hear more about your impression of N43. They were introduces right when I exited delivery, in fact I had been talking to a couple new owners and would have delivered their boats with them had I not returned to Corp America. I've never been aboard a N43, but they looked perfect for a cruising couple. An extra few feet in the PH so a Stidd could be fitted. At the time, I thought it might be the perfect boat. Have always wondered about it but unrequited love.

Hippo: what did you think?

PS - type of stabilization is less important than having stabilization.