Which Motor?

[Senojev]

Hopefully not another anchor thread but here goes.

My 6 yo 20hp Honda outboard (power tilt, remote control) came close to burning up this week with the battery ground cable glowing red in several locations over its 6’ length. Insulation badly melted back to motor and exterior metal parts of the motor such as the steering arm were hot. It happened in seconds but fortunately not in the middle of nowhere but at the swim platform.

On investigating it further, the dealer who rigged the boat did not fuse the cable in any way.

When we pulled the motor, the vertical pivot tube just crumbled with severe corrosion damage that was not showing 6 weeks ago. Other new corrosion was evident.

Short story, the local dealer is estimating anywhere from $500 to north of $2K depending upon extent of corrosion and any electrical component damage. Does not sound to be a good investment and a new motor is probably the way to go.

Given that I want to stick with a 20hp, electric start, power tilt, remote control, I’m looking for experience with current motors from Tohatsu, Mercury, Yamaha, and Suzuki. I’m having a tough time considering Honda again as I’ve spent over $1500 on it even though rigging costs would be zero.

 

[mvweebles]

I posted a similar query last year. Based on feedback, I went with Tohatsu 20hp electric start/tilt.

You may want to also consider the Mercury 20hp as I believe it has a Tohatsu core, but controls on the tiller are much more intuitive.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

Love my 15 HP Suzuki. It's super reliable, easy to do PM work, and wouldn't own an outboard without electric start.

Ted

 

[Max Simmons]

Do you know what was causing this problem in the first place?

 

[twistedtree]

Do you know what was causing this problem in the first place?

Good question. My guess is an electric short that was mild at first, but triggered rapid electrolytic corrosion, and ultimately a more severe short that roasted the cables.


FWIW, starter cables (the fat cables on an outboard) are typically NOT fused.


Regadless, the outboard needs to be replaced, so the question about brands stands.

 

[twistedtree]

I would give favor to a model that has EFI rather than a carburetor. From what I have seen, they are MUCH less prone to fuel problems, presumably because the fuel system isn't open to the atmosphere like with a carb. EFI is finding it's way into smaller and smaller engines every year.


I have had OK experience with Honda (90 hp and 15hp), excellent experience with Yamaha (4, 40, 60, 70hp). And not so good experience with a Mercury/Tohatsu carb 6hp.


Power tilt might limit your choices. 20hp seems on the small side for power tilt, but my thinking may just be dated on that.

 

[Endeavor GB 32]

+1 for Tohatsu, we have a 9.9 EFI electric start and it's AAAA++++, I had a Honda on a prior boats dinghy and had nothing but trouble. 20 HP available with power tilt. Good luck!
Regards,
Scott

 

[Max Simmons]

I'm dealing with the same corrosion issue on the mounting frame (I think it's the same as what the OP referred to as vertical pivot tube) on my Honda 40. It has maybe 100 hours on it, and always stored out of water. I'm looking at replacing the frame soon as I'm not ready to plunk down over 7k for a new outboard. But if I was, I'd be looking at Suzuki just from what I've heard around the docks. It's a shame as the Honda runs like a top and has never left me stranded.

 

[Jc180]

Good question. My guess is an electric short that was mild at first, but triggered rapid electrolytic corrosion, and ultimately a more severe short that roasted the cables.


FWIW, starter cables (the fat cables on an outboard) are typically NOT fused.


Regadless, the outboard needs to be replaced, so the question about brands stands.

Good analysis. Agree.

 

[Jc180]

Currently running a Suzuki 20 hp electric start. Chose over Tohatsu because found parts more readily available (check out boats.net) to diy maintenance and a big plus, a shop manual available.

Satisfied with the performance and reliability.

 

[Blissboat]

I’m looking for experience with current motors from Tohatsu, Mercury, Yamaha, and Suzuki. I’m having a tough time considering Honda again as I’ve spent over $1500 on it even though rigging costs would be zero.

My own experience with two Honda outboards in recent years has me convinced to avoid the brand. The motors themselves seem robust, but the dealership / service support network is very poor. I have given Honda and several of its authorized dealers ample opportunities to change my mind. They failed.

When it comes to outboards in the sub-250hp range, up and down Florida's waterways, Yamaha has always been the consensus brand of choice. However, more and more commercial guys have been switching from Yamaha to Suzuki, driven by price and warranty. I hear the Suzuki converts say they wished they'd made the switch earlier. If I were buying a new OB today, I'd do a close side-by-side comparison of those two brands.

 

[Osprey69]

My own experience with two Honda outboards in recent years has me convinced to avoid the brand. The motors themselves seem robust, but the dealership / service support network is very poor. I have given Honda and several of its authorized dealers ample opportunities to change my mind. They failed.

When it comes to outboards in the sub-250hp range, up and down Florida's waterways, Yamaha has always been the consensus brand of choice. However, more and more commercial guys have been switching from Yamaha to Suzuki, driven by price and warranty. I hear the Suzuki converts say they wished they'd made the switch earlier. If I were buying a new OB today, I'd do a close side-by-side comparison of those two brands.

I have heard the same. I would go Suzuki.

 

[koliver]

You need to solve the electrical issue first. Why did you get a dead short in the power connectors?
I leaned a couple of years ago that the connectors that come with outboards are not long enough to go to a remotely located battery, and are butt connected to extend their reach. In my case (Honda) and in a friend's much newer (Yamaha) installation, that butt connector was below the floor in the dinghy and sometimes immersed in salt water. That caused an open circuit that proved difficult to find but was easily corrected.
In your case, a dead short is the wrong kind of result and must be found before moving on to the decision about which outboard to replace the burned up one.
Your insurance may cover this, if you can find what caused the failure and claim under your boat policy for consequential damage due to an insured risk.

 

[ranger58sb]

We have a Suzuki 20-hp electric start/trim model (but not many hours on it yet) and we had the 15-hp version before. Works well, although we found our earlier motor sensitive to salt water clogging around the cylinder head... verly likely because of our very low usage pattern. I learned to freshwater flush more often.

Would maybe have gone with the Tohatsu electric start/trim model this last tie, but the dealer wasn't able to get those at the time.

Both are EFI systems, the only type I'd choose.

-Chris

 

[Senojev]

Follow-up

Thanks for the responses to date. I pulled the motor into the mother boat and started to do some further investigation. As one person noted the Honda battery cables were too short and the wire was not tinned. The cables were extended by the rigger with Ancor cable of the right size and a bare butt splice. The crimp was OK but only covered with shrink tube, not the adhesive type. There was extensive corrosion at the splice on the negative cable and obviously very high resistance. Insulation melted off for six inches each side and the cable was fused to the split conduit carrying the cable. Saltwater corrosion was clear. Closer to the engine there were several areas of the negative cable where insulation had melted away so the whole negative cable was likely a giant resistor. No damage was evident anywhere along the positive cable.

I’m not that clued in on the rapid corrosion aspect of the problem but suspect the frame was trying to act as a ground, heated up and thus corrosion was accelerated. The anodes on the motor were new at the start of the season and were only mildly worn.

The motor goes into the dealer Monday to get his verdict. I thought about insurance and need to check coverage. The dinghy and motor were covered for the original sale price but need to find out how the coverage is after 7 years and how any deductible applies. I have a very good yacht policy and low premiums so it may be better to just suck up the loss.

From the responses so far, Honda does not seem to rank high although I see a lot of older ones on lobster skiffs. On the trawler dinghies not so many with Tohatsu, Suzuki, and Yamaha being the most popular in that order. See relatively few Mercurys.

 

[twistedtree]

Thanks for the responses to date. I pulled the motor into the mother boat and started to do some further investigation. As one person noted the Honda battery cables were too short and the wire was not tinned. The cables were extended by the rigger with Ancor cable of the right size and a bare butt splice. The crimp was OK but only covered with shrink tube, not the adhesive type. There was extensive corrosion at the splice on the negative cable and obviously very high resistance. Insulation melted off for six inches each side and the cable was fused to the split conduit carrying the cable. Saltwater corrosion was clear. Closer to the engine there were several areas of the negative cable where insulation had melted away so the whole negative cable was likely a giant resistor. No damage was evident anywhere along the positive cable.

I’m not that clued in on the rapid corrosion aspect of the problem but suspect the frame was trying to act as a ground, heated up and thus corrosion was accelerated. The anodes on the motor were new at the start of the season and were only mildly worn.

The motor goes into the dealer Monday to get his verdict. I thought about insurance and need to check coverage. The dinghy and motor were covered for the original sale price but need to find out how the coverage is after 7 years and how any deductible applies. I have a very good yacht policy and low premiums so it may be better to just suck up the loss.

From the responses so far, Honda does not seem to rank high although I see a lot of older ones on lobster skiffs. On the trawler dinghies not so many with Tohatsu, Suzuki, and Yamaha being the most popular in that order. See relatively few Mercurys.

You may have a good case for an insurance claim. They will likely argue it, but argue back.

 

[tiltrider1]

I agree with going EFI. For years we ran only Yamaha and Honda engines. We have fond the engines are not keeping up with past reputation. Our experience with EFI Suzuki’s continues to get better.

I personally run a EFI 40hp Suzuki. It is now 10 years old and all I have ever done is change the oil, gear lube, and replace the water impeller. Starts right up every time and is very quiet.

 

[Jeff F]

I'm sure the dealer will condemn it. Sorry for your misfortune.

I have a 2023 Tohatsu 20 HP. Have had Suzukis and Yamahas and lots of respect for both. Wanted EFI and weight was important too for me. Most importantly local good dealer had in stock at reasonable prices when I went shopping. No complaints so far.

ETA: one minor complaint is that it's not easy to pull start. I wanted lean and mean but next time I'll give serious consideration to electric start. The same motor is available with electric tilt and start.

 

[Simi 60]

We have a 30hp Suzuki with electric start AND pull start

Great engine but seriously HATE the safety switch button position , gear lever and short tiller arm.

Has me lusting for the 40hp Yamaha where everything is on the long tiller arm

 

[High Wire]

I just bought a new Suzuki 15hp electric start to replace my 15 hp Evinrude 2 stroke on my skiff. Obviously with electric start it’s easy. Using the rope is much harder than the Evinrude. I can do it but with difficulty. Only 2.5 hours on it so limited reporting at this time. It’s about 30 pounds heavier than the old motor. The starter battery is just a lawn tractor battery.

 

[mdstrum]

We had honda 20hp it was OK but hard to fresh water flush and work on I felt, Sold it and got a Yamaha 20hp with our new tender 4 years ago and just love the way fresh water flush works, our is manual start and it starts in 1 or 2 pulls after sitting for weeks, just a simple to work on great product.

 

[Mako]

I’m a big fan of Suzuki and they offer great value. Plus they look hot in white!

I also had a Mercury Bigfoot (tall gears, big prop, high torque) which was also great and really pushed hard for my heavy, moderate speed requirements.

 

[Darlin]

I had a 15 hp Honda electric start that ran reliably for 25 years. I finally had to replce it last year with a Yamaha.