markpierce
Master and Commander
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Messages
- 12,557
- Location
- USA
- Vessel Name
- Carquinez Coot
- Vessel Make
- penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Glad to see you're back, "Codger 2."
Last edited:
The Mercedes owner might disparage Toyotas but there's a lot of Toyotas on the road and for good reason!
Amen! Although I believe Grand banks to be a good boat, I do not think it's a great boat. (IMO) Just because it costs more, doesn't mean that the quality is that much superior to a lot of other brands. Grand banks was among the first recreational trawlers offered to the public and its success was almost guaranteed. Like Xerox and copiers, it dominated the so called trawler market for years. It doesn't anymore.As you, I do believe quality costs, but I don't believe one necessarily gets it by paying a lot.
Couldn't had said it any better myself!! This might mean I'm an " codger" too. Heck I was one (and ornery too!!) at 30! I sought out older people for wisdom and listened. Saved a lot of errors. More young people should give it a try vs. getting on Wikipedia and starting arguments.Amen! Although I believe Grand banks to be a good boat, I do not think it's a great boat. (IMO) Just because it costs more, doesn't mean that the quality is that much superior to a lot of other brands. Grand banks was among the first recreational trawlers offered to the public and its success was almost guaranteed. Like Xerox and copiers, it dominated the so called trawler market for years. It doesn't anymore.
For years, I was brain washed by competing marketing & dealer firms as to the inferior quality of the Bayliner 4588 & 4788. When I had the opportunity to actually cruise on one, I was amazed at the overall quality and performance of the boat. No, it's not a boat that status seekers buy but it is a boat that's extremely well made, that is affordable by a large majority of cruising couples & remains on the best seller list of brokerages throughout the country.
I posted this in another thread but in case the original poster didn't see it, FWIW....
We have met several couples over the years who have Bayliners and have done the Inside Passage up and back, some several times. I would venture to say there are a lot more Bayliner owners who have done the Passage than Nordhavn owners.
Bayliners suffer from a reputation that stems partly from their cheap, entry-level trailer boats. The other source of Bayliner myths has to do with owners, not the boats.
Bayliner very successfully figured out how to make boats that were priced less than many other production cruising boats of the same size and purpose. And when you price something lower than the competition, you tend to get more people buying it. People who couldn't afford a Grand Banks, for example, could afford a similar-size Bayliner.
So you had people getting into a relatively large cruising boat who perhaps didn't really have the interest in all the details of cruising that someone willing to plunk down the price of a Grand Banks had. They just wanted to get out on the water with their friends and families and have a rousing good time.
So the uninteresting (to them) things like the Colregs and the details of proper navigation and radio use and the effect of their wakes on other boats were not things they paid much attention to. To them, the boat was all about having a good time.
When you encounter boaters who are inconsiderate, uneducated in boat operations, unskilled, careless or all four you also notice the boat they are using. And when it seems there are a lot of these less-than-ideal boaters driving Bayliners, the annoyance one feels upon encountering them gets transferred to the boat make. So..... Bayliners must be crappy boats because they are always driven by crappy boaters, right?
Sure, Bayliner was able to price their boats very competitively by using not the most expensive hardware and using production techniques more tailored to assembly-line production than those used by Grand Banks or Fleming or Krogen.
But the fact remains that in the hands of a competent, courteous boater, a Bayliner cruiser is no less effective at providing great value and experiences to its owner than a Grand Banks, Fleming, or Nordhavn.
Forced into a choice, I would take a well-looked after Bayliner cruiser over a similar size, older Taiwan trawler like a CHB with uncertain care and even more uncertain construction quality, knowing what I know about the manufacturing processes used in Taiwan in the 70s and 80s.
This spring we will be returning to the PNW and we will be actively shopping for a Bayliner 4588.
Thanks to everyone who responded. This spring we will be returning to the PNW and we will be actively shopping for a Bayliner 4588.
A few important differences between the 4588 and the 1997 or later 4788/Meridian 490: Hino engines vs Cummins (both are great engines, Hinos can be a little harder to find an experienced mechanic and parts); 4588 had some wood coring above the water line (look for soft deck and flybridge); 4588 has exterior wood (pretty but more maintenance). We love our 4788, but doesn't everyone love the boat they own?
There are two 49 Meridians for sale in Seattle area. One was at the Seattle Boat Show. It has been under cover always and owned by a finicky maintenance oriented freak who -gasp- insisted on doing servicing by the book even though the boat racked up less than 100 hours per year. Cummins 330s and sparkling.
Although you are looking at a smaller 4588, the 49Ms are worth a look, a look you won't regret.