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I had something different done on my spine involving opening my vertebrae and installing steel plates making more room for my spinal cord. I now have feeling back in my phalanges. It's not 100 percent but it is much better going on 3 years now. No fusion. The surgeon said fusion would still be an option if I needed it later.
 
Best of luck. They wouldn’t want me awake, I’d ask questions and keep asking for a mirror. Then I’d get bored and the real fun would begin.
 
"Understand the pressure a fusion puts on other local vertebrae",
Yep and living with that feeling, kinda weird

The Brockerts
 
this is what i had done. I cannot remember the name of the procedure. but I avoided fusion.
 

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this is what i had done. I cannot remember the name of the procedure. but I avoided fusion.

Did they chop away big pieces of the vertebrae and then held them together with those brackets?
 
Menzies,

Good luck with your surgery. I will make a few peanut gallery comments that you can take or leave. I am no surgeon or expert of any kind, just a fellow back sufferer. The surgery above your last post looks to be a monolateral laminectomy on the left side only. My prior surgeries have been three level laminectomies, with the second including a foraminotomy on both sides. It would seem that some type of laminectomy would be a more conservative approach to your situation, but your surgeon must feel that the areas effected are so bad that any such measure would only result in instability that would put you right back into surgery. This being said my friend had a one level laminectomy that really did not give him lasting relief, so they did a two level fusion as a second surgery. After the fusion his pain was even worse that after just a laminectomy so now they want to do a five level fusion. My point in saying this is that there is no magic bullet here and this is why people often start as conservatively as possible. Some times more is less. Fusion is a permanent fix and limits any ability to take advantage of future developments in spinal technology or other types of lesser procedure. It is the nuclear option. It is good that they feel one level will do it as this puts far less pressure on the joints above and below. In this way it is a minimal nuclear option still leaving the door open for future remedies on other levels. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. As long as you are very comfortable with your surgeon all you can do is follow his/her advice and move on.

As for anesthesia. No way I do it awake. Boring and unnecessary. I woke up during my knee replacement while they were beating in my lower joint. Weird stuff. I raised my hands and said "more drugs please". The room went dead quite and I went dead out. I remember the experience like it was yesterday. I would rather not have that memory. No pain as I had a spinal block. I process anesthesia like its nothing so I can only offer my experience. I shake it completely off in a day. I do not want to second guess your choices, but rather relate my experiences for you to compare your thoughts to. Piece of cake.
Bill
 
Did they chop away big pieces of the vertebrae and then held them together with those brackets?
They cut the vertebrae but did not chop any out.
Laminoplasty is what its called.
 
So I had the injection into L5/S1 and no relief.

Had a subsequent injection into L4/L5 and no relief.

Met with the surgeon today and talked for an extensive time on all of the options. Seems there is a minor issue L3/L4 as well but that is a ways out.

Without going over all of the conversation we are going with a fusion on L4/L5. Scheduled for July 23rd.

Understand the pressure a fusion puts on other local vertebrae, but he feels that a laparotomy will be a short term solution given the stenosis.

We did discuss doing both the L4/L5 and L5/S1 but he feels my issue is driven by the former. By focusing on one it will be minimally invasive, if we aim for both it will be open surgery.

I opted for the awake surgery. Epidural and no general anesthesia. Which will help with recovery.

Also enrolled in a study comparing awake versus general.

Going for the COVID test on the 21st and if clear will go under the knife on the 23rd.

12 weeks before I can cruise again. Around first of October. All calendars are based on cruising! :)

Tally ho old chaps!
Menzies, as an ex-Quack with quite a bit of anaesthetic experience, it might help if I tell you that having done a lot of GAs, epidurals, and spinals, my common quote was..."if I ever have to have surgery, it will be under LA as opposed to GA if at all possible". That's from a strictly safety viewpoint. However, if it takes a long time, or involves less that elegant positioning, such as my perineal puncture for prostate biopsy, as someone else said, being out is good.
However, they can give you what they call 'twilight sleep' while having a spinal or epidural, which is safer than full GA, and bleeding is always less under local, so you can have the best of both worlds having that. Which is what I'd do in your case.

You tried the conservative moves,hope the fusion is a cure. Doing it awake is interesting,won`t you hear the trusty De Walt drilling pilot holes for the screws:). I didn`t understand the laparotomy option.
Bruce, I think Menzies meant 'laminectomy' in this instance, which several others referred to as well. It is a way of removing bulging discs, by just taking out a piece of the arch (lamina) covering the disc and nerve from the back, and removing the jelly-like substance in the bulge, but does then reduce the 'gap' by reducing the disc volume, which tends to cause exiting nerve pressure later on, so not a good long term prospect. However, some procedures now either introduce a bone graft to prise the vertebrae apart, (interbody fusion) or even more recently place in there an artificial disc, after removing most of the disc, to re-establish the gap, and take pressure off exiting nerves, and sometimes that is done from the front, ie through the abdomen, and could therefore need a laparotomy.
I had something different done on my spine involving opening my vertebrae and installing steel plates making more room for my spinal cord. I now have feeling back in my phalanges. It's not 100 percent but it is much better going on 3 years now. No fusion. The surgeon said fusion would still be an option if I needed it later.
In this case, Bligh's op helped stabilise the disc space and prevent further compression over time as the disc degenerates. 'Laminoplasty' means they trimmed away some of the lamina (bony arch) to make more room for the nerve exiting. However, as he said, this does not then compromise further interventions later, whereas just reducing the disc volume does.
Hope this helps, and good luck with all that Menzies. :flowers:
 
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Pete, that is correct. They will use both a cadaver graft and metal "brace" to separate the vertebrae.

The stenosis is so dense between the L4 and L5 that he doesn't feel he can "clean" it out sufficiently to help release the nerve pressure.

BTW guys I may have failed to mention that this is at the Mayo Clinic, which happens to be fifteen minutes from home.
 
It should go well. I'd definitely suggest the epidural + twilight sleep approach because of the duration mainly. However, the other beauty of the epidural is the option of topping it up for post-op pain relief after the op, and avoiding the need for intramuscular narcotics, and their over-sedating and gut side effects. :thumb:
 
He is doing an epidural.

He estimates the procedure at less than two hours. I was originally told that he was scheduled out through September but that he frequently fitted in "short" procures like mine around the longer ones - like eight hours!!

So I asked him, tongue in cheek, if I could go first and not after one of his marathons! I check in at 5:30am and go under the knife at 7:30! That works.

Only questions I have left, which I will clear up at the pre-op interview, are; they said I will be in a dentist like chair. I don't quite understand that. Is it like a dentist chair which can be adjusted from flat to upright giving him the best angle of attack?
Also the neuro surgeon said some of his patients are dismissed on the day, others stay overnight. But the nurse afterwards doing the consents told me a two day stay was common. I guess that doesn't matter, it will be what it will be.

They also asked if I would be in a study they are doing comparing results of Awake versus GA procedures. I believe following up multiple times over six months later on aspects of the procedure rather than clinical outcome. I had to complete a baseline interview.

I also have to have the COVID test 48 hours beforehand. That may be the most uncomfortable part of all this!
 
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7:15pm this evening I get a call from the hospital. I thought they were going to cancel my surgery for Thursday. Instead they asked if I could come in at 5:30am tomorrow morning instead!

I guess they either had a cancellation or someone tested positive for COVID.

So COVID test and urine at 5:30, speed result in their own labs, and under the knife at 7:30.

Bit of a shock really - but Tally Ho!
 
May it go well, and we see you back here resuming normal thread-starting and posting activities in short order!
 
Hope it goes very well. As you`ll be awake(? somewhat sedated) we`ll invite a full report.
 
Dang, just had the COVID test. She tried the left nostril first and couldn't get close enough to my brain so went in again on the right.

If you ever want to see grown men cry grab a folding chair and go sit by a drive-through testing site!!
 
Good luck with the rest! Should be much easier, now! I guess they will have to pry your phone & TF app out of your hands before using the knife...
 
Wonder if they will let me go FB Live? :)
 
Got home around seven. It was"interesting" to say the least, definitely sounded like carpentry.

Plus I barfed during the procedure.

More tomorrow.
 
Got home around seven. It was"interesting" to say the least, definitely sounded like carpentry.

Plus I barfed during the procedure.

More tomorrow.



Glad to have you back so soon!
 
Did they use Milwaukee or Dewalt tools? When will you know if they fixed you?
 
Did they use Milwaukee or Dewalt tools? ...

No, but they are similar. You need tools that can be sanitized repeatedly and are ignition proof.

My dad was a surgeon and some of the stuff he used looked like it was more appropriate for working on your car than a person's body.
 
Got home around seven. It was"interesting" to say the least, definitely sounded like carpentry.

Plus I barfed during the procedure.

More tomorrow.

You reminded me of my conversation with the orthopedist who replaced my knee.
I told him that while I was under anesthesia I remembered hearing noises.
I asked him if there was any hammering. He said, "Oh, yes!".
 
You reminded me of my conversation with the orthopedist who replaced my knee.
I told him that while I was under anesthesia I remembered hearing noises.
I asked him if there was any hammering. He said, "Oh, yes!".

Orthopedic surgeons are the carpenters of the medical profession. (Gastroenterologists are the plumbers.)
 
Greetings,
Mr. ss. Along the same vein, I expect the neurologists are the electricians and proctologists deal with the septic systems.


hD0B3DB4F
 
Did they use Milwaukee or Dewalt tools? When will you know if they fixed you?

Right now the referred pain down my left leg has gone. Now I'm having quite some pain at the surgery site when I move - so I don't know if that pain is masking the leg pain or it really has gone.

They have given me opioids for seven days, so I suspect I will know if it has been successful by this weekend.
 
Dang, just had the COVID test. She tried the left nostril first and couldn't get close enough to my brain so went in again on the right. If you ever want to see grown men cry grab a folding chair and go sit by a drive-through testing site!!

Really? I've done it twice. Once DIY, handed the materials from a drive-up window and the second through the open car window. Sure, it's not something I'd sign up for everyday but it's hardly a "grown man cry" kind of thing. I suppose some folks are more squeamish than others.
 
Got home around seven. It was"interesting" to say the least, definitely sounded like carpentry.

Ever had Lasik eye surgery done?

Now I know what cooking eye lens smells like.

As for back pain, I had the steroid shots into the discs. Lordy, I'd wish that kind of pain on my enemies. I told the Dr. if I didn't know where he was with that needle I'd spin around and give him a good punch for how PAINFUL it was. He chuckled (a little) and said that wasn't the first time he'd heard someone say that. I've learned to live with the pain, 6 weeks of relief wasn't worth repeating that agony.
 
The referred pain in your leg is gone because the impingement is gone. The surgery was a success in this regard. The question is for how long will it be gone? This could be a permanent fix, or it could only last a while. Much of the ongoing success is in your hands. Take it easy and do not articulate that joint. In a few weeks you will fell really good, and that is when you commit even more to taking it easy. This could be a real blessing, don't give it back. Good luck and welcome to the club. Bill






Right now the referred pain down my left leg has gone. Now I'm having quite some pain at the surgery site when I move - so I don't know if that pain is masking the leg pain or it really has gone.

They have given me opioids for seven days, so I suspect I will know if it has been successful by this weekend.
 
Orthopedic surgeons are the carpenters of the medical profession


Yes, I would call them "finish carpenters", a large step above framers.


Seems things are going well--hope it continues
 
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