Well, I was hoping.....

[Star0210]

That I was going to be able to come and post that everything went great and the boat is going to be ours within a few days. I guess that would have been just too simple.

I think it will all work out in the end but we’ll see.

Everything was going ok, surveyor and mechanic doing their thing. They leave for the yard for the haulout. Boat ran great, everybody feeling good so far about everything. Surveyor had found a few small things, but nothing that were dealbreakers.

Then they haul the boat out. This was the part that we had been the LEAST concerned about because the broker/owner had just had it hauled out a few months ago before he took it as a trade in. He had told us that everything was fine but that it was going to need a bottom job soon. So we were expecting that.
What nobody was expecting was to find a rather large hole in the shaft on the starboard side. A good bit of corrosion. A bad prop. How this wasn’t seen at the last haul out is a mystery. Owner/broker said he wasn’t physically present when they hauled it out. His surveyor was there and a captain that had driven the boat to the yard. After some discussion, he decided he wasn’t comfortable running the boat any further so we could not continue on with the actual sea trial. Owner/broker went and talked to the yard and he came back and said they could take the boat right then and start doing the repairs. They said it would take about a week. He and David talked and decided they would just go ahead and do the bottom job too.

The current plan is for us to get the survey reports of what they were able to do. The owner/broker is going to get all the costs from the yard for the work they have to do and then they will talk and decide how to proceed forward. The only other thing the mechanic found so far is a small leak in a riser on the generator. I have no idea what these things mean but obviously it’s something that needs to be addressed. The surveyor and mechanic will have to go back once the work is completed to finish their jobs. It’s unlikely David will be able to return to Florida for that so they will have to finish everything without us present.

The only significant thing the surveyor found was a small leak in a starboard side port light innhe second bathroom. It caused a hanging cabinet to rot. Doesn’t appear to have caused any other damage other than that one small wooden cabinet.

We are a little disappointed. The chance of us being able to make our time window to go and get the boat and bring it home is about slim to none. So we will have to go to plan B or C.

 

[Star0210]

Oh, I forgot they also found that one of the vacuflush pumps runs constantly.
Not sure what that means either. But I think the yard is going to look at that too.

 

[Russell Clifton]

I think you would have to assume the other shaft is the same age as the bad one. Maybe get in writing from the yard doing the work, and the owner, that it was thoroughly inspected and no defects were found. It is definitely not something you guys should be paying for. Good luck.

 

[Star0210]

I think you would have to assume the other shaft is the same age as the bad one. Maybe get in writing from the yard doing the work, and the owner, that it was thoroughly inspected and no defects were found. It is definitely not something you guys should be paying for. Good luck.

The port side everything is all fine. So it’s got to be a bonding/electrical issue.
(I’m repeating what I was told...I have zero understanding of all of this “below the carpet” stuff.) Lol

And no, we are definitely not paying for any of that.

 

[Larry M]

You may want to ask for a corrosion analysis by an ABYC tech that has a Corrosion Certificate when the repairs are done and the boats back in the water. It will tell you if the bonding and electrical (grounds, neutrals, etc) are wired correctly on the boat. Given the condition of the shaft and prop, I’d think it’s a legitimate request. We had one done on Hobo and it took about an hour.

American Boat and Yacht Council

 

[Comodave]

The head running is probably a bowl seal, not much of an issue. Good luck with the shaft problem.

 

[boomerang]

Wow! Thats a good picture of the shaft issue. Bizarre how it's eroded in that one small area. I would have to wonder if there was a flaw in the shaft since new. When you said you also had a bad prop, do you mean bad as in stray electrical currents or physical damage?
Chin up...it sounds like the owner is going to work with you guys so hopefully in the near future this will all be a memory that'll put a smile on your face as you motor off to new destinations in your new boat!

 

[folivier]

That's looks like a pretty new zinc. Thankfully they didn't install it over the hole. But how the heck did they miss it?

 

[Star0210]

Wow! Thats a good picture of the shaft issue. Bizarre how it's eroded in that one small area. I would have to wonder if there was a flaw in the shaft since new. When you said you also had a bad prop, do you mean bad as in stray electrical currents or physical damage?
Chin up...it sounds like the owner is going to work with you guys so hopefully in the near future this will all be a memory that'll put a smile on your face as you motor off to new destinations in your new boat!

Here’s a pic of the prop.
Yes, i think it will all work out in the end. Just a speed bump. I hope though that they can figure out the electrical problem and fix it so this doesn’t happen again. They are replacing all of the bad parts with new parts. Including this prop.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

It looks like the zinc slid down the shaft a little.


When we hauled out for our survey, we had 2 bent props and a zinc had slid down the shaft and damaged the cutlass. Both props were repaired and balanced, new cutlass bearings and zincs. Seller paid for all repairs. I worked with him on other issues.


So no worries. Have the seller fix the items. Remember, everything is negotiable..... Good Luck...

 

[Star0210]

**side note. I hate how the pictures upload in a different orientation than how they are in my photo album. Ggrrr.

**I figured out that if I go into my photo album (iPad) and rotate the picture 360 degrees and then upload it, it posts correctly. Very weird!

 

[Star0210]

That's looks like a pretty new zinc. Thankfully they didn't install it over the hole. But how the heck did they miss it?

That was my obvious question and the answer is we really don’t know. They’re speculating that maybe it was covered up. But there’s no way to miss the corrosion on the prop stuff.

 

[angus99]

You may want to ask for a corrosion analysis by an ABYC tech that has a Corrosion Certificate when the repairs are done and the boats back in the water. It will tell you if the bonding and electrical (grounds, neutrals, etc) are wired correctly on the boat. Given the condition of the shaft and prop, I’d think it’s a legitimate request. We had one done on Hobo and it took about an hour.

American Boat and Yacht Council

Ditto this. You may also want ask about having the shafts decoupled to see what’s going on in the stern tubes. With that kind of visible damage, I’d want to know if there’s any crevice corrosion where the shafts might be starved for oxygen.

 

[Star0210]

Hey all you smart people....I’m curious how quickly this type of corrosion could happen?

Also, how difficult is it to root out the source of the problem? Is this something this boat yard should be able to easily determine and fix?

 

[Pedro]

I don't know if this is you case.
In my experience, a boat that is docked always to the same side, gets a lot more electrolytic corrosion on that dock side. It appears that stray currents from that side are frequently much stronger than at the sea side. This is more evident on boats that are moored to the front of houses, probably because the houses circuits are never perfectly grounded.

 

[BruceK]

Survey so far is not bad,certainly no "walk" findings. That shaft is bad though,maybe "bogged"(filled with Bondo) and disguised before the broker`s survey. Here`s hoping the sea trial post shaft renewal goes as well.

 

[Duvie]

Crevice corrosion

To me the corrosion on the shaft looks like crevice corrosion. If it were an electrical issue the damage would not be concentrated on one spot like that. I think that is where the zinc used to be and the crevice corrosion formed under it. I had similar corrosion form on the taper between the prop and the shaft on one of my boats.

 

[Duvie]

Crevice corrosion on shaft taper

Here are the pictures of my old 1 inch shaft with crevice corrosion on the taper.

 

[BruceK]

It`s not really a crevice. An area along a shaft, whereas crevices are often at/near joins. Semantics I suppose. Or does the presence of a zinc create a kind of crevice? I can`t but think the zinc is implicated,somehow.

 

[Duvie]

BruceK, correct the zinc is what caused the crevice. There was a space between the zinc and the shaft where water got in. Growth on the shaft may have sealed things up better blocking off oxygen. Previous posts sounded like the zinc had moved down the shaft.

 

[Star0210]

To me the corrosion on the shaft looks like crevice corrosion. If it were an electrical issue the damage would not be concentrated on one spot like that. I think that is where the zinc used to be and the crevice corrosion formed under it. I had similar corrosion form on the taper between the prop and the shaft on one of my boats.

Did you see the picture of the prop and the prop nut?

 

[C lectric]

This is speculation but if the/a zinc were installed and the seating area of the shaft or the zinc were not CLEANED adequately there may not have been an electrical connection between the two.

Once there is a failure of electrical conductivity between the shaft and zinc then crevice corrosion could start.

Stainless steel is stainless only in the presence of oxygen. With the dead area beneath the zinc seawater would still be present. THere may have been some interchange but too little so the oxygen was depleted and then the chromium that shows us the bright appearance of SS cannot form it's oxide so that protection disappears leaving the shaft vulnerable.

The damaged area has lost both the zinc protection AND the free supply of oxygen has been cut off.

Now my speculation presumes the zinc covered the damage but was improperly installed.

It could also have been a barnacle. I've seen that although not on a shaft but when a barnacle is removed from SS once in a while a pit will show.

There are other way to start it. Even the leaving of some iron from a tool that was not cleaned off properly. Not common but not impossible.
Of course there are many different grades of SS and unless you know which grade was used it could even have been a poor grade/alloy.

I offer this only to highlight some of the ways that a SS shaft can fail.

It doesn't matter now as the shaft needs to be replaced and maybe the other one VERY CLOSELY INSPECTED or replaced also.

Just as a last note I ALWAYS check my zinc installations with an ohmmeter and if it shows more than 1 ohm the zinc comes off and both the mounting area, shaft or otherwise, and the zinc mount face are cleaned again.

Enough of my guesswork.

Hopefully all works out well for you.

 

[StarsMan]

To clarify, the corrosion was not isolated to the one spot Star showed. There are several areas of corrosion pitting along the entire length of the shaft. Also on the prop and on the retaining nuts for the prop. The issues appear to be isolated to the starboard drive train. Port side looks to be ok with no signs of any corrosion or pitting. The boat is in the yard now for a full diagnostic of the electrolysis issues and ultimate repair/fix. Will also get shaft, prop, cutlass bearing, and dripless seal replacement done.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sounds like you've found a boat that's almost perfect and at a good price. That's probably unusual. Sounds to me you had a scream'in deal and now you've got a good or still very good deal. How much you like the boat and how hard it's going to be to find another needs to be considered. You're getting concerned about one problem that's really not that big of a deal. Look at the overall deal and boat. How old is the boat?

 

[Star0210]

Sounds like you've found a boat that's almost perfect and at a good price. That's probably unusual. Sounds to me you had a scream'in deal and now you've got a good or still very good deal. How much you like the boat and how hard it's going to be to find another needs to be considered. You're getting concerned about one problem that's really not that big of a deal. Look at the overall deal and boat. How old is the boat?

Well, I don’t think we got a deal at all. I think we’re paying a fair price for the boat based on market data. The boat is perfect for us. We love everything about it. The ad lists it as a 2004 but it’s really a 2003. This model boat was only made from 1998-2003.
I think it will all be ok but they have to correct the issue causing it or it will just happen again.
It’s a lot of money to us...we don’t want to spend this kind of money on a boat that’s going to need many boat dollars of work.


2004 Cruisers Yachts 5000 Sedan Sport Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Ms. S.

 

[StarsMan]

We have researched make and model extensively. This make and model meets our primary criteria. Of the available boats on the market currently of this make and model, this one most closely meets our criteria. We have agrreed on a fair market price with the seller based on the boat meeting certain performance and condition criteria. Given the survey and haul out findings, it did not meet those criteria. The seller is willing to make the necessary repairs. We are ok with that assuming we can pin point the”why” behind the corrosion items. If we can’t identify the “why” part, then we would be exposed to an unexceptabke risk basis. Our concern is not about what was found but more about the “why”. If we can answer that question then I have no doubt we can reach an acceptable arrangement with the seller.

 

[StarsMan]

For whatever reason, the seller appeared as equallallly surprised as we were about the starboard drive train corrosion issues. I will proceed on the believe that he will make it right until shown otherwise.

 

[StarsMan]

And for the record, the owner made the right call upon finding the corrosion issue. Namely, let’s not proceed with a sea trial and instead let’s put the boat in the yard to make repairs. Safety first.

 

[dhmeissner]

Did you see the picture of the prop and the prop nut?

The small nut is supposed to go on first. I can’t tell anything about the prop other than it doesn’t look pink. And there’s some growth.