Victron Orion XS 12/12-50 DC2DC Charger ERROR

[dhays]

I had installed a Victron Orion XS 12/12-50 DC2DC Charger to charge my house bank from my thruster/windlass bank while running the engine. The alternator is feeding the thruster bank. Testing at the dock at idle it worked fine. First sea trial, it seems to work OK initially but then as I was running solo I couldn't monitor it closely. At some point, it blew the 60 Amp fuse on the output side. Two days later, armed with new 75amp fuses, I once again was out on the water. This time the Orion gave me an error code, #28 Power Stage Issue. Victron documentation doesn't say much about this other than:

Error 28 - Power stage issue• This error will not auto-reset. Disconnect all wires, and then reconnect all wires. If the error persists the charger is probably faulty

So when I did as instructed and then the next day, I got the same error again. I also found that the 75amp fuse had blown on the output side of the charger. The charger is only supposed to have a max output of 50amps and it had been set to charge at no more than 45amps.

So, I think my Orion is defective. I'll try and call the vendor tomorrow, I must say I'm pretty disappointed. I really like everything about the Orion, other than not actually charging of course. I also am not crazy about blowing through a series of MRBF fuses either.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Sounds like an output transistor blew shorted.

 

[dhays]

Sounds like an output transistor blew shorted.

No idea, but could be. I'm hoping it isn't too much of a hassle to deal with getting it replaced. It really is a great charger for my application. If it works of course.

 

[tpbrady]

I am in the midst of planning an LFP switch and one of the things I identified was the need for 2 DC-DC chargers to boost the available amperage to the LFP bank while having redundancy. The only other option was to bypass a failed charger. Have you considered that?

One of the things I am learning is integrating an LFP battery bank into a 30 year old boat is about as complex a task as there is to be sure everything works. Good luck with the final steps.

Tom

 

[CharlieJ]

First step is to ensure that the output fuse isn’t just doing its job. Some basic troubleshooting on the load side needs to be done. After ensuring that there are no defects in the boat’s system, contact your Victron Dealer. Nearly all Victron equipment has a 5 year warranty that starts with the dealer that sold you the unit.

 

[dhays]

I am in the midst of planning an LFP switch and one of the things I identified was the need for 2 DC-DC chargers to boost the available amperage to the LFP bank while having redundancy. The only other option was to bypass a failed charger. Have you considered that?

One of the things I am learning is integrating an LFP battery bank into a 30 year old boat is about as complex a task as there is to be sure everything works. Good luck with the final steps.

I have considered it. Not so much for the redundancy issue but for being able to boost the amps into the house bank. I would be happier if the Orion was less expensive.

In my situation, there are three charge sources for the house bank. The solar is very anemic this time of year with our weather and latitude. However, I can fire up the generator and use the charger/inverter to charge the house.

 

[dhays]

First step is to ensure that the output fuse isn’t just doing its job. Some basic troubleshooting on the load side needs to be done. After ensuring that there are no defects in the boat’s system, contact your Victron Dealer. Nearly all Victron equipment has a 5 year warranty that starts with the dealer that sold you the unit.

Yeah, I contacted the dealer today and got a quick reply. I need to supply them with some additional information. Their reply said that Error #28 comes from the input or output terminals being too how and asked if I used a large enough gauge wire. I'm sure they know than I do (just about anyone knows more than I), but that is not what the Victron information implies at all.

FWIW, I used a 6 AWG wire is the largest wire the Orion can fit in the terminal and the wires have crimped ferrules on them. Furthermore, the terminals getting hot at the Orion would not cause the fuse on the wire (3' away) from blowing. Maybe a chicken and egg thing. If the Orion's internal amp regulation failed, it could easily have caused a higher amperage to pass through the unit, blowing the input and output fuses, and in the process could cause the terminals to heat up.

 

[SteveK]

First step is to ensure that the output fuse isn’t just doing its job. Some basic troubleshooting on the load side needs to be done. After ensuring that there are no defects in the boat’s system, contact your Victron Dealer. Nearly all Victron equipment has a 5 year warranty that starts with the dealer that sold you the unit.

Charlie,
loads should each have their own fuse/breaker. So if there is a load causing the fuse to blow then it may be wired direct to the battery, is this where you are thinking.

 

[CharlieJ]

@SteveK #8:
Not really. What I was thinking was the output from the Orion must be routed to bus bars and from those bus bars to branch loads. Yes, the branch loads should be protected by their individual OCPD but, that doesn’t always happen. So, if an unprotected branch load over loads or shorts or if the output from the Orion to the distribution bus bars is faulty, an overload or a short circuit could occur and the fuse in the Orion’s output is simply doing its job. Ocamm’s Razor applies.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, Ocamm. The charger is factory limited to 50A. The OP reduced it to 45A.

But yet, the 75A fuse on the output blows.

If nothing is between the victron and what else it is connected to except the fuse...

How does the 75A fuse blow with 45A on it?

 

[CharlieJ]

@Delta Riverat #10: How indeed. I am simply pointing out that he needs to make sure the installation is “by the book”. Looking the other way round: how can a short circuit internal to the Orion open a 75A fuse between the Orion and the loads.

 

[Delta Riverat]

That's an easy one. Output on Orion is shorted, no more current control.

These things typically work by pulse width modulating the output and monitoring the current. If the output is shorted or the pwm input to the output transistors is stuck on, no more current control is available. It's just like a wire from the input to the output.

 

[CharlieJ]

@ Delta Riverat #12:
Sorry, I do not understand your explanation. Given the circumstances you postulate, the downstream load is still what is causing the fuse to open.
As a thought experiment: remove the DC/DC Orion from the circuit entirely and install a battery. The system now has a very high current source, no PWM, no internal fusing, no FETS. This is analogous to the DC/DC that has failed internal controls per your explanation. If the system has been described properly by the OP, as soon as the battery is brought on line, the 75A fuse will open because the downstream load > 75A.

Ocamm’s Razor always applies.

 

[dhays]

@Delta Riverat #10: How indeed. I am simply pointing out that he needs to make sure the installation is “by the book”. Looking the other way round: how can a short circuit internal to the Orion open a 75A fuse between the Orion and the loads.

I understand what you are saying.

The Orion has an input, an output, and a ground. The Input is coming directly from the bus bar for the thruster bank to the Orion and is protected by a MRBF fuse. The Output goes directly from the Orion to the house bank bus bar and is also protect by a MRBF fuse. The ground goes directly to the ground bus.

The max amps that the Orion should be able to draw or output is 50amps. I had the Orion set to draw and output no more than 45amps. Yet it first blew the two 60amp fuses that were protecting the input and output wires. When the Orion was completely disconnected, and then reconnected (to reset it according to the Victron manual) with 75amp MRBF fuses, it blew the 75amp fuse on the output wire and the 75amp fuse showed signs of have been overheated, but the fuse element wasn't completely melted. This tells me that the Orion is passing much more than the 50amps that is is rated for. The only way I can see this happening is if there is some internal fault within the Orion. However, my ignorance is boundless.

I purchased the Orion from PKYS.com. I reached out to them and got a very quick reply. I'll be sending the charger back to them. I believe they will test it and then process the Victron warrantee claim.

Once I get another Orion installed, I'm going to go back to using a 60amp MRBF fuse since the recommendation by Victron is a 60-70amp fuse.

 

[SteveK]

Dave, we had a similar discussion here a while back unable to find the cause. In the end, the output positive and negative were attached in reverse. Most likely when you install the new one that will be eliminated (if it exists). This would explain a positive from the battery into the DC2DC negative output blowing the fuse and the device.

To save another fuse put a light bulb in line. If it burns bright (which it should not) then you saved a fuse and need to track downstream what is grounded on the positive line in both directions.
BTW, if a 70A blows, the 60A will bloe too and nothing learned.

 

[tpbrady]

I think it’s been hinted at, but the cable between the Orion and house bus bar is a two way street. While the Orion will only pass DC toward the house, the house can pass DC to the output side of the Orion. A short of some kind on the output side of the Orion will be a load to the house battery, so the 75A fuse would probably fail.

Tom

 

[dhays]

Dave, we had a similar discussion here a while back unable to find the cause. In the end, the output positive and negative were attached in reverse. Most likely when you install the new one that will be eliminated (if it exists). This would explain a positive from the battery into the DC2DC negative output blowing the fuse and the device.

To save another fuse put a light bulb in line. If it burns bright (which it should not) then you saved a fuse and need to track downstream what is grounded on the positive line in both directions.
BTW, if a 70A blows, the 60A will bloe too and nothing learned.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you wondering if I wired the Post and Neg in reverse or that the internal connections in the Orion were reversed? The first definitely isn't the case and I would seriously doubt the second.

 

[SteveK]

I'm not sure I follow. Are you wondering if I wired the Post and Neg in reverse or that the internal connections in the Orion were reversed? The first definitely isn't the case and I would seriously doubt the second.

Yes, brought it up as it did happen and many pages later found to be the culprit.
Hope we find your problem.

 

[Barking Sands]

Any word? I have mine installed but only have a few hours of running it so far. And so far its great.

 

[dhays]

Any word? I have mine installed but only have a few hours of running it so far. And so far its great.

I received the RMA from PKYS (vendor) via email early this morning. Tomorrow I'll package up the Orion and mail it to them to evaluate. PKYS has been very quick to respond, but the process will take time.

I think you will really like the Orion, as I expect my experience is an outlier. I can't wait to get another one and re-install it.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Hi, I'm thinking you have an automatic fuse that trips on heat not A. I also have a 50A dc-dc and am experimenting with automatic fuses. The first one was 60A and I could only load it with 25A otherwise it tripped on heat. I switched to 100A and it can take a 40A load. I am going to change
it to an even bigger one. These automatic fuses are a bit questionable..

Example:

Blue Sea 285 Panel Mount Circuit Breaker 100a (8-27087)

Free Delivery | Low Prices | Great Range. Blue Sea 285 Panel Mount Circuit Breaker 100a

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