To upgrade or not to upgrade ?

[Delta Riverat]

I agree. Ratings and standards are expensive to document. That's why we have surveyors we pay to examine used boats and pay to have them hauled to see the bottom end.

Could be a killer deal!

 

[Mambo42]

I guess, though having come so close, will he be satisfied..? Being brutally honest, I doubt I would. However, I'm still a bit flummoxed as to why a boat when constructed, by design and previous assessment, has an A rating for seaworthiness, but after salvage, even though the hull and other basic structures are restored to the same level, ie, size, length, displacement, overall scantlings, (which appears to be the case), and everything important in it works properly, (which again, appears to be the case), why it suddenly plummets down to not even being rated CE, or for the sort of use my old Clipper (CHB) 34 was capable of..? Just saying'..?

It is mostly a bureaucratic process. I have no doubt the boat will still handle the same seas without a problem, but the administrators think differently. A boat registered in the US now has to conform to EU regulations when you want to import it into the EU and that means a CE certification. Normally that is done by the builder of the boat, they supply all the paperwork, the bureaucrats will dive into it, you pay them a sh*tload of money and if you are lucky they will hand you your CE rating.

This boat came from the US, was registered there, so needed to be imported in the EU. That would not have been a problem if the boat would not have been a total write off. However, it WAS declared a total loss by the insurance and thereby lost any certification.
It would have been possible to get it back if the boat would have been rebuild according to the exact same standards and if that would have been documented. But that did not happen and then it became a different ball game.
The owner decided not to proceed with the whole process and opted for taking an easy CE rating of C. Basically that is a small craft certification, no more.
And obviously insurances will use that rating as their bench mark, which means that if you get into trouble they will use it against you. They may say they won't, but in reality they will.
Question then is whether you want to go out into a busy anchorage, with million dollar boats right next to you, being the one who is not insured ? My answer would be 'Nope, find someone else who wants to do that'.

And that has nothing to do with the boat being able to handle heavy seas.

Fun part is that my Defever 49 was built well before the CE rating was thought of. Therefore I don't have to comply with anything and no matter what sea state I will be insured.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I'm insured, liability only.

 

[Irish Rover]

@Mambo42 - I've deleted the draft private message I had prepared asking to view your Defever 49 in the event you bought the Fleming. I've been following the thread with interest and I think you've made the only decision that makes sense. Maybe we'll run into each other somewhere around the Aegean in the not too distant future. Best of luck.

 

[ranger58sb]

When I applied for my insurance I had to give them our CE rating. Since our boat is exempt of a CE rating I won't have any problems.

Why is yours exempt? Imported prior to the rating standards? Or...?

-Chris

 

[Mambo42]

@Mambo42 - I've deleted the draft private message I had prepared asking to view your Defever 49 in the event you bought the Fleming. I've been following the thread with interest and I think you've made the only decision that makes sense. Maybe we'll run into each other somewhere around the Aegean in the not too distant future. Best of luck.

Would be nice to meet up. We will be in Corfu, Greece around the end of March. Then we will do around 50 hours on the engines in that area, do a last check and move to Kefalonia, Ithaca for about one month and then move up to Dubrovnik, Korcula and later to the Kornati.
Send me a message if you are in the area, could make a nice story for the forum ! There are not too many of us sailing around the Med.
If we are in the neighborhood we might aim for the Fireworks in Venice on 16 July this year. That is something you have to see once in your life. I have seen it multiple times from the shore, this will be the first time from the water. Looking forward to it.

 

[Mambo42]

Why is yours exempt? Imported prior to the rating standards? Or...?

-Chris

My Defever was built in 1979 and the CE norm was established well after that (1996), so I don't have to comply with it.

 

[Irish Rover]

@Mambo42 I'm jealous. Sounds like you have a wonderful summer planned. I don't think I'm going to make it to the Ionian this year. Our daughter is finishing high school this year and applying to universities all over Europe so no long trips before June and then probably need to spend some time in Nederlands or Belgium or wherever sourcing accommodation for her and getting her settled. I have set aside the month of June for a cruise in the Aegean taking in a football [soccer] match between Greece and Ireland in Athens in mid June. Enjoy your cruising and maybe post a thread with photos as you progress. Safe sailing...

 

[Xlantic]

My Defever was built in 1979 and the CE norm was established well after that (1996), so I don't have to comply with it.

Where is your boat registered?

I am in the process of obtaining CE certification for my 1979 boat in order to register it in Spain as they require it.

 

[Mambo42]

Where is your boat registered?

I am in the process of obtaining CE certification for my 1979 boat in order to register it in Spain as they require it.

You can register your boat anywhere you want, but some countries are more convenient for us as pleasure boaters. If you just want the boat for private use, no charter etc then Poland is a good country to register the boat. It is the cheapest and easiest way to do it. I paid 399 euro and that is a lifetime registration, no checks by coast guard or survey reports that you have to hand over.
They can also do the registration of the radio, but the UK is much faster for that one. So my boat is registered in Poland, the radio license comes from the UK, the insurance is Europen (Pantaenius).
When it came to CE norm I just stated NA (Not Applicable), which is also stated on the contract and that was it.

 

[Irish Rover]

I'm very interested in what you say about the radio licence. I was under the impression you could only get a UK ship's radio licence from OFCOM if your boat is British registered. Is this not so? Do you have a UK issued MMSI?

 

[Cold Duck]

Maybe my insurance checked without my knowledge, but CE never came up with my 65ft Halmatic (built in England). It was built like a tank. Their concerns were "too Old", 1975. But we still found an insurer keeping the boat in Fl during Summer. This was 8-12 years ago. Let's face it, there is a lot of the world where most of us boat that we don't need a CE qualification at all. In most cases, the boat will take a lot more than the captain and crew LOL!

 

[Cold Duck]

Maybe my insurance checked without my knowledge, but CE never came up with my 65ft Halmatic (built in England). It was built like a tank. Their concerns were "too Old", 1975. But we still found an insurer keeping the boat in Fl during Summer. This was 8-12 years ago. Let's face it, there is a lot of the world where most of us boat that we don't need a CE qualification at all. In most cases, the boat will take a lot more than the captain and crew LOL!

Sorry, I now see the history of the CE rating, it's relatively new so my 1975 Halmatic would never have had a CE rating. Always something new with the bureaucrats to make life more difficult and not really safer for sure. But bet the legal beagles love it!

 

[Mambo42]

I have set aside the month of June for a cruise in the Aegean taking in a football [soccer] match between Greece and Ireland in Athens in mid June.

You will thoroughly enjoy that month at sea, Greece is a beautiful country for boaters, so many islands to go to, so many small authentic villages, beautiful quiet bays etc, you will want to come back for more.

 

[Mambo42]

I'm very interested in what you say about the radio licence. I was under the impression you could only get a UK ship's radio licence from OFCOM if your boat is British registered. Is this not so? Do you have a UK issued MMSI?

I got the license via Spectrum Licensing. The company that arranged my registration in Poland organized it for me. Cost me 99 euro if I am not mistaken.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks. I've been based in the Aegean for a number of years and it is indeed a wonderful cruising ground with so many small islands to visit. The Turkish coast is also a fantastic cruising area with wonderful scenery and so many secluded bays and anchorages. It's a few years since I've been in the Ionian sea but I'm anxious to get back. Traversing the Corinth Canal was a great experience.

 

[ranger58sb]

My Defever was built in 1979 and the CE norm was established well after that (1996), so I don't have to comply with it.

Ah. Interesting. Thanks.

-Chris