To fix or not to fix the engine??

[FOADIAC]

2001 34' Mainship Pilot, Yanmar diesel. Oil Pan rusted thru. Engine was running beautifully with no issues. The $15K question...pull engine, replace pan, oil and water pumps, hoses where needed, clean & paint...or...sell the 22 year old boat at a significant discount and let the new owner(s) decide if they want to repower or not. According to listings on YachtWorld the vessel is worth $85k-125K. I'd say closer to the lower end. I'd sell without a Broker for $50k-65K. Newer Generator, HVAC, Fridge, electronics, etc.

Opinions welcome.

 

[PhilPB]

2001 34' Mainship Pilot, Yanmar diesel. Oil Pan rusted thru. Engine was running beautifully with no issues. The $15K question...pull engine, replace pan, oil and water pumps, hoses where needed, clean & paint...or...sell the 22 year old boat at a significant discount and let the new owner(s) decide if they want to repower or not. According to listings on YachtWorld the vessel is worth $85k-125K. I'd say closer to the lower end. I'd sell without a Broker for $50k-65K. Newer Generator, HVAC, Fridge, electronics, etc.

Opinions welcome.

Have you priced replacement of the motor rather than repair?

 

[rgano]

Based upon a replacement Yanmar of similar size I see going in, the new engine will be north of 40,000 dollars before removal and installation costs.

Putting a new engine in it will raise resale a good bit.

Selling it for 50-65K is a good deal for a guy willing to pull the engine and replace the sump, if that was all that was wrong with the engine and it was not run without oil.

 

[FOADIAC]

Mechanic wants to shift to a Cummins, quoted $50K-$60K. He is a local mechanic who my marina uses, awfully difficult to get the bigger & more established yards to engage in this (Norfolk, VA) area...the bigger guys have shifted their focus to augmenting commercial ship repair yards or just closed up their repair facilities in general. Repower at a price of 50% vessel value seems to be a bad decision. Opinions Welcome.

 

[FOADIAC]

Never run without oil and oil sample was clean after inspection for fragments, filings, etc.

 

[rgano]

If you had been offering this before I bought this 30 Pilot, I'd be on it like a duck on a bug. I'd lift the engine myself and repair the old sump on it and call it done. The engine lifting rig's bipods are easy to install fore and aft over the engine compartment with the beam between them. I have done this on a twin boat where we were sequentially pulling and replacing them while installing new tanks. A day to disconnect; hour to lift and brace in place; couple hours to remove old sump and either repair it (it was done here by somebody recently) or stick the new one on; another day or so to lower and reconnect.

 

[scott_free]

If engine is good and was not run dry I would hoist engine and replace the pan. Not really that bad of a job. I've done it on two boats and we built a wood A-frame with a block & tackle, lifted engine, removed and replaced oil pan and set back down. Each one was a couple days labor total. Most time was spent building frame and disconnecting hoses/wires.
Scott

 

[rgano]

If engine is good and was not run dry I would hoist engine and replace the pan. Not really that bad of a job. I've done it on two boats and we built a wood A-frame with a block & tackle, lifted engine, removed and replaced oil pan and set back down. Each one was a couple days labor total. Most time was spent building frame and disconnecting hoses/wires.
Scott

+ one

 

[FOADIAC]

Copy All...appreciate the feedback...

 

[Comodave]

Agree. On our last boat we pulled both engines, one at a time, to do work in the engine room. I built a hoist system from scratch. When we were ready to pull the engines I spent a couple of hours disconnecting things. It took 3 of us to lift the engine about took about 2 hours for the first engine. About 2 hours to reinstall the engine and then hook up things. Actually much easier than I thought it would be. If all that is wrong is a bad oil pan then I would lift the engine and replace the pan. If the engine was run without oil then it is a whole different thing.

 

[tiz]

If you are comfortable doing the lift, id say do it all yourself.

If you're done with the boat or not comfortable doing the work, sell it

I would not be in favor of a repower to cummins. Great engine, not worth the trouble.

--kevin

 

[Comodave]

Agree. I prefer Cummins to Yanmar but the additional cost in switching to a different engine will cost way more than fixing the existing engine.

 

[twistedtree]

Did it run dry? Is there other engine damage? It really seems pretty straight forward to fix what's broken rather than go down the re-power path.


I think anything broken, in this case a boat, will be of less value than the cost to fix is vs something working. This is simply because anyone buying it has to assume the worst, and is taking a lot of risk about other problems that can't be found until the obvious thing is fixed. Plus it's a much, much smaller pool of buyers who would have any interest in taking on such a project. So your buyers are basically self-select bargain hunters. So if it's a $10k repair, I'd expect the boat's value to suffer by 2x to 5x that amount. The only reason to take that hit is if you are just fed up with the boat and want it gone, which I could certainly understand. Just understand you will take it on the chin. I think under all other circumstances I would do a focused fix and then use or sell the boat.


For what it's worth, I largely put myself though college working just the opposite side of this equation, buying non-functioning cars, fixing them, and selling them for multiples of what I had in them once they were working.

 

[High Wire]

If engine is good and was not run dry I would hoist engine and replace the pan. Not really that bad of a job. I've done it on two boats and we built a wood A-frame with a block & tackle, lifted engine, removed and replaced oil pan and set back down. Each one was a couple days labor total. Most time was spent building frame and disconnecting hoses/wires.
Scott

Agree 100%. Trying to sell without a running engine is a bad idea. Your target buyers are bottom feeders. They aren’t going to spend anywhere near $50k. Find a Yanmar service firm. Making the swap from Yanmar to Cummins is going to be expensive, time consuming and unnecessary.

 

[sunchaser]

FO
How did you discover the oil pan was rusted through- drip or a complete oil dump? If only a drip lift and replace pan, hoses etc as you described. If a dumped pan of oil there are some potential issues as others have noted.

Are you planning on selling the boat regardless?

 

[SteveK]

It WAS running great? Sounds like a major oil dump and engine ran dry until it seized. Why else would it need an engine change and not just a new oil pan.

 

[tiltrider1]

If all it needs is an oil pan then the engine only needs to raised enough to remove the pan.

If it was running great and then seized due to no oil, the simplest thing would be an engine swap of like kind engine.

When you sell a boat with a dead engine, you limit your self to only cash buyers with DIY abilities. This means 95% of the buying market is not available to you. That last 5% know they have the advantage and will run you ragged in negotiations.

Replace the engine with another yanamar, used if available and then sell.

Switching to a different brand or model of engine will open up all kinds of unexpected work and expenses.

 

[Comodave]

It WAS running great? Sounds like a major oil dump and engine ran dry until it seized. Why else would it need an engine change and not just a new oil pan.

I’m not sure that is what he said. How do you replace an engine for $15K?

 

[SoWhat]

Opinions welcome.

Opinion only. Not necessarily what I would do. Borescope through drain hole. Inspect cylinder walls for scoring. Video if possible. JB Weld the oil pan so it will hold oil. Start the engine, video it running. 10 seconds is enough. Stop engine. Pull all injectors. Do compression tests and borescope cylinders.

If it runs, no scoring, and has good compression, repair it.

I would probably borescope first, build a support, lift the engine, and just replace the oil pan. Risk? If it overheated, warped the head, burned a valve or two, or is seized, then a complete rebuild needs to be quoted.

You will not get many offers on a project boat. Lots of dreamers but no cash.

 

[psneeld]

Hey...the only question in my mind is .... do you still love the boat and it fits your needs? Or are you starting to lean towards something different?

When it's time to sell, whether in perfect shape or a wreck...it's time to sell.

Putting money into a boat you are not happy with is usually never wise.... y0u might improve it's sale-ability, but maybe not, and the process keeps you out of a valuable amount of boating time.

Weigh the options my friend, and this one could be more "feelings" than economics.

 

[SteveK]

It WAS running great? Sounds like a major oil dump and engine ran dry until it seized. Why else would it need an engine change and not just a new oil pan.

I’m not sure that is what he said. How do you replace an engine for $15K?

Perhaps the $15K was the new $64 question? Still not clear then why a new drop in engine is considered if there was no damage to the existing engine

 

[Comodave]

In post #5 he said it was never run without oil. So repair that engine would be the way I would go. Easy to hoist it up to change the oil pan.

 

[Larry M]

…According to listings on YachtWorld the vessel is worth $85k-125K. I'd say closer to the lower end. I'd sell without a Broker for $50k-65K. Newer Generator, HVAC, Fridge, electronics, etc.

Opinions welcome.

The easy way would be to list it as is. Buyers always think they can do it cheaper and gloss over the fact that it’s a boat project. I’ve been there a few times. If it doesn’t sell, drop the price or replace the engine. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Ken E.]

I'm with the others who would replace the oil pan in the boat. There are mechanics who do this sort of thing, even in-frame overhauls. Seems like the easiest alternative.

 

[Delta Riverat]

I agree.

If the job is not DIY do-able, hiring the oil pan replaced will be much less expensive than swapping the engine. Not having to remove it (only lift it up a bit) is simple in comparison.

 

[Xlantic]

Well, if it was my boat, I would replace the oil pan.

Seems like a no-brainer, unless I am missing something. Why replace extremely expensive stuff that is not broken. There are plenty other better opportunities to spend money on a boat.

And I would remedy what caused the pan to rust. Splashes from the stuffing box? Easy to fix with cut-out PET bottle and a cable tie.

 

[twistedtree]

I think we lost the OP after the first day.....

 

[STB]

My understanding is that we've gotna perfectly good engine with an oil pan leak.

I cant imagine replacing such an engine. Get another oil pan. Good used is fine. Get a couple of gaskets, just in case.

Pump out oil. Hoist the engjne the very few inches you need -- not everything will need to be disconnected. Likely seawater connections and maybe fuel.

Lift the engine,swap the pan, lower the engine. Reconnect. Fill with fluid. Possibly wrestle a little bit with repriming the oil pump. Sea trial.

It should be a few hours. A day tops. A relaxed weekend.

We did something similar on one of my engines. It took about an hour to have it in the air and pan dropped. Maybe 2 hours if you count hauling tools and the a-frame to the boat.

I don't know your access, so your mileage may vary, but whatever it is, a full on replacement can only be more painful.

 

[Comodave]

I think we lost the OP after the first day.....

Some people don’t really want to hear differently. Oh well…

 

[SteveK]

Some people don’t really want to hear differently. Oh well…

Edited. The OP with post 9 closed this thread. Hope to hear the outcome.

Why would a mechanic say buy a new engine when only an oil pan needs changing. I suggested because it seized up without oil.