Tip amounts for dock line handlers and fuel dock attendance?

[psneeld]

It's not exactly true that people can work in whatever job they want even though I'm a strong believer in free market capitalism. But this thread is not about people being paid for their efforts, it's about tipping. If it was about pay for effort, the guy climbing down a manhole in the cold rain or roofing your house in 100+ degree heat, would make a lot more than a CEO sitting in an office.

Why would your manhole example be true? And why can't anyone get any job? People seem to prove it every day.

That's just an opinion...is it not how many people are deemed qualified to be that CEO versus how many will climb down that manhole for a given amount of money that determines it, not how unpleasant of dangerous it is?

I think you were the one who brought up the unfairness in wages...you did just post this, didn't you?

"A bartender can pour a lot of beer in an hour and get a dollar or 2 per beer. As a society, we want to be generous, but is this fair? So many people work in jobs that provide essential services and do not rely on tips and make much less. "

 

[Bacchus]

Not surprising if you do some simple math. A waiter serving 3 tables for an hour may get $20 per table plus the small hourly pay. Could be much more or less than that depending on the situation. Of course they don't want to give up ~70/hr for a $20 hourly rate. A bartender can pour a lot of beer in an hour and get a dollar or 2 per beer. As a society, we want to be generous, but is this fair? So many people work in jobs that provide essential services and do not rely on tips and make much less. Not to mention the fact that many cash tips can go unreported and tax-free.

What's missing us that math may be true but only for the1-2 maybe 3 hrs max of prime time at restaurants. Also ignores the fact that many restaurants have struggled to find servers. If they received $70/ hr consistently there would be more willing to "serve".
I'm more than willing to tip 25% for exceptional service at restaurants I frequent and have a very warm relationship with.
I dont tip our hone port marina help for assistance but have given them a Pres Grant note at the end of season. I also keep a few bottles of Grey Goose on hand for a fellow boater that goes above & beyond helping with all sorts of chores.

 

[Simi 60]

And why can't anyone get any job? People seem to prove it every day.

Oh cool
I'm off to get that Astronaut job now
Or maybe a fighter pilot
If not that there's always ballet dancer, stripper or brain surgeon for me to fall back on.
Oh wait.....

At the end of the day people are suited for some jobs and not others.
Then throw in poor education or over educated, not living in the right area or knowing the right people
Not looking pretty enough, not speaking the language
Having a disability, Gee in some places colour of skin, nationality, sex or religion will make it near impossible to get the job you'd like regardless of skills.

And who would empty the bins, make your food, work on your boat if everyone decided to be an astronaut?

 

[psneeld]

Oh cool
I'm off to get that Astronaut job now
Or maybe a fighter pilot
If not that there's always ballet dancer, stripper or brain surgeon for me to fall back on.
Oh wait.....

At the end of the day people are suited for some jobs and not others.
Then throw in poor education or over educated, not living in the right area or knowing the right people
Not looking pretty enough, not speaking the language
Having a disability, Gee in some places colour of skin, nationality, sex or religion will make it near impossible to get the job you'd like regardless of skills.

And who would empty the bins, make your food, work on your boat if everyone decided to be an astronaut?

If William Shatner can go to space, so can you....

 

[Comodave]

If William Shatner can go to space, so can you....

Maybe my grandson will someday. He is graduating from UT in May with a double major of Aerospace Engineering and Mathematics. He just accepted a job with Blue Origin.

 

[backinblue]

And why can't anyone get any job? People seem to prove it every day.
"

Many people take whatever job they can find, not necessarily the job they want. Not everyone has the skill and qualifications for any job nor the means to get them. But getting back to tipping, maybe you can rationalize the $1 tip you feel is appropriate for hotel housekeeping.

 

[Nancy n Larry]

At our home dock, we will tip for an outstanding service, though usually we are on our own. If we ask, the dock hands are happy and willing to help out and we appreciate that by compensating them commensurate with the service we have asked for. Otherwise, we have not received dock help and have not tipped at other marinas. Just our experience, though we really like taking care of our home port people.

 

[mvweebles]

The other day I asked the head of the company refitting Weebles about a propina (gratuity) for the guys who have been working so hard on her the last couple months. Now, I realize this thread focuses on tipping fuel dock attendants, but I thought his response warranted reopening this thread with a different perspective that also gives a window into Mexican culture.

He said "that's very generous, but best would be to split the money between all of my team - treating them unequally is difficult."

I responded that there were a few who were really dedicated to Weebles, to which he said "yes, but they can work on Weebles because there are people working on other boats." My takeaway was that while in my professional life, being recognized individually with financial incentives was important, there's a lot to be said for being part of a solid team who is recognized collectively.

So that's exactly what we did. We got 13 envelopes and put the same in each. Guillermo distributed the envelopes to all the guys at the same time and they were ecstatic.

Peter

 

[backinblue]

Thanks Peter. Some restaurants will do something similar because they believe that all the workers contribute to a good experience, not just your waiter. It take away a little motivation to provide excellent service, but as I said earlier, I don't think there is much incentive anway as tips are expected and taken for granted.

 

[Lollygag1]

Our local pub does that. No one has a dedicated table the staff just cruises around taking orders, serving etc and then the entire team splits the tips at the end of the night. Very cool

 

[psneeld]

I get the concept of teamwork as a leadership imperative, but isn't the concept of tipping spread to those that may or may not have earned an equal share kinda defeat the concept of tipping?

I see the whole concept of trophies all around as a demise of true leadership skills and the downfall of a society. True leaders (restaurant managers/owners) can explain why life doesn't always seem fair.

....and it's not about greed, it's about reward and recognition for doing your best.

Though I do see that some operations where the whole does really work as a team can benefit from with the sharing tips because all think it's best.

 

[backinblue]

In a restaurant scenario, a great dining experience is more than just the table service. The bartender, cook, kitchen help, busboy, hostess, cleaning crew, etc, all can contribute, but only the waiter walks away with a $50 tip. That doesn't seem entirely fair. I still say the concept of tipping based on service received has faded long ago.

 

[mvweebles]

Part of the reason I believe my experience was emblematic of Mexican culture is jobs like servers, bartender, fuel dock attendant, yard worker, etc. tend to be long term jobs. In the US, these jobs are viewed as temporary stops along an aspirational career path. The relationship between employer and employee seems to be much more transactional. The US custom of tipping reflect this I suppose.

Another example in Mexico. My favorite watering hole (Wendlandt Tasting Room in downtown Ensenada) has had the same people working there since I first visited four years ago. There's one person with whom we've become especially fond of. A while back, I gave her an especially generous tip on top of the generous tip for drinks. I gently told her it was for her, but she refused and dropped it into the tip jar to be shared by all.

My final thought on the equal tip to all of the yard workers is I hired a team led by a capable leader who assigned the right individual for each task needing work on Weebles. It was the right call on his part to equalize the gratuity (BTW - for him, a bottle of Don Julio Reserva).

Peter

 

[psneeld]

In a restaurant scenario, a great dining experience is more than just the table service. The bartender, cook, kitchen help, busboy, hostess, cleaning crew, etc, all can contribute, but only the waiter walks away with a $50 tip. That doesn't seem entirely fair. I still say the concept of tipping based on service received has faded long ago.

Often not true...going back to the 70's I remember my sister explaining how the good waitresses took care of the good busboys. My sig other's son is a bartender in Vero beach and says how they often share tips but they are not "mandated pooled" by the management like many places.

So yes, tipping still works, just ask your waiter or waitress if they pool tips and act accordingly. As I pointed out, the better ones often move on to places that don't pool because hard work and talent should pay better. That's why some stay long term in that type of job because they can make a lot of money with little formal training or education and they love the lifestyle.

True the typical pizza joint is what it is...and often the tips reflect that... as it's like going to any US "quickie" service industry. You should never expect more than what you are paying for. It's amazing when you do and it would be nice to reward that stellar individual..... but alas the tip is usually shared.

As I posted before, one way doesn't serve all employees or even businesses the same.... based on the location and style business, shared or individual tipping could be the way to go.

 

[guy with a boat]

In a restaurant scenario, a great dining experience is more than just the table service. The bartender, cook, kitchen help, busboy, hostess, cleaning crew, etc, all can contribute, but only the waiter walks away with a $50 tip. That doesn't seem entirely fair. I still say the concept of tipping based on service received has faded long ago.

I’m not sure how universal it is, but in at least some restaurants, the servers share a fixed proportion of tips with the kitchen staff. That is by their rule and policy, not at the whim of the wait staff.

 

[SteveK]

I get the concept of teamwork as a leadership imperative, but isn't the concept of tipping spread to those that may or may not have earned an equal share kinda defeat the concept of tipping?

I see the whole concept of trophies all around as a demise of true leadership skills and the downfall of a society. True leaders (restaurant managers/owners) can explain why life doesn't always seem fair.

....and it's not about greed, it's about reward and recognition for doing your best.

Though I do see that some operations where the whole does really work as a team can benefit from with the sharing tips because all think it's best.

Well said.
as a society we have evolved away from rewarding the individual to rewarding the participants. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

The server brings me an excellent meal, but it was the chef that made it and should get the bulk of the tip, the server the rest for the service. Actually think a good chef motivates servers to perform.
The rest of the staff are doing a job and getting paid for it. It is up to staff and employer to determine that wage, not the consumer.

 

[psneeld]

I might have said something well, but hard to decipher and not sure I can agree with your statement.

 

[MVDarlin]

I think a flat rate is approptiate for fuel. It seems the rules vary. Some places the operator holds the fuel nozzel. Others the dock staff do it. If low I can load over 500 gallons. Possible $3,000 of fuel. % tip does not make sense since the work involved is similar, only time at pump changes.

 

[SteveK]

The evolution of the tip. It all started with

A hat tip, also referred to as tip of the cap, is an act of tipping or doffing one's hat as a cultural expression of recognition, respect, gratitude or simple salutation and acknowledgement between two persons.