Time for Lithium House

[dhays]

dhays, you may want to reconsider your alternator output circuit.

Consider the typical PNW cruiser who spent the night on the hook and in the morning has his LFP house bank depleted by Steve's 400 Ah's or more. 500-600 Ahs is common overnight on my power hungry ride.

With your described circuits in place, you start the engine and your new 28SI pours it's guts into the thruster bank only, as that's all it's directly connected to.
This helps in bringing the anchor aboard and then while underway at some point (usually not too long) the DC2DC connects the now charged thruster bank to the depleted house bank.

Your new 160A 28SI is loafing along with only an output of 50 A, (thruster bank is full) all of which goes to to the LFP house bank via the 50 A DC2DC. At 50 A, let's just say it will take 8 hours (your house loads are zero) to charge the battery bank that is depleted by 400 Ahs.
Other than possibly a short burst of current into the thruster bank now and again, 50 A of load is all that this 160 A rated alternator will ever see.
Your new 28SI should last a long time as it will likely never overheat with these loads.

The DC2DC on the other hand, is running flat out most of the time.

At some point along this 8 hour charge duration the LFP house bank will get to 13.0 V and then and only then will the Xantrex Echo Charger start to charge the engine start bank.
Up until this point in time the engine start bank has started the engine, ran the intake air heater (if still enabled or equipped) and supplied the engine run loads, which DDW upthread says on his QSB are about 20 Amps, without any charge what so ever.
Even when the Echo Charger engages, it can only supply 15 A, so the engine start bank is still going backwards by 5 A.

So, the question is, do you think your engine start bank can supply all the loads it is asked to supply without seeing a 15 A charge for however long it takes, at a 50 A charge rate, to get your depleted house bank to 13.0 V? For one night, maybe, what about 2 or 3 nights in a row?
If you think it will, then you need to ask yourself, will your instrumentation warn you of a short term low battery condition causing multiple annoying resets, like DDW experienced?

@luna I really appreciate your input as you actually know about this stuff and I'm just guessing and making it up as I go. You have it pretty much pegged.

One thing is that the Echo Charge is feeding the start battery from the thruster bank, not the house bank. The reasons are exactly as you outlined. The thruster bank will be brought up to 14.0v pretty quickly. I have a 5 minute timer on the Orion so it won't even start charging the house from the thruster bank until 5 minutes after the engine circuit is engaged. The reasons for this right now are to give the thruster bank most of the alternator power at the beginning when we would be using the thrusters or the windlass.
The Echo Charge at the most sends 15 amps to the start battery.

My boat has been running with the start battery being fed only by the Echo Charge for 6-7 years and the start battery has always done very well. It is an 8 year old 8D and is the healthiest battery on the boat. However, given DDWs experience it is something that I will be watching. Specifically, I now have a Victron battery sensor on the start battery. I am able to monitor its voltage and temperature. I will watch and see what happens with the voltage in the start battery. When the engine is running, I would expect it to get back to 14v relatively quickly and stay there.

I also don't expect that the DC-DC charger will actually give me 50amps on a continuing basis, although it would be nice. The 28Si alternator is a 14.0v alternator and so far in my limited testing, it is right on the nose. However, I don't yet have a remote sense wire connected so it is judging the voltage based on its own output not the voltage at the battery. A remote sense wire would have it adjust its output based on the voltage at the battery. There is very little voltage drop between the alt and the battery, but the remote sense wire will make sure that the alt feeds as much current as it needs to keep it at 14.0v.

However, once the thruster bank hits 14.0v, the output from the alternator will drop significantly. I have yet to find out how much the Orion will actually output once the thruster bank is at 14.0v. My hope is that the Orion will take up to 50amps of current from the thruster bank and the alternator will increase its output correspondingly. Unfortunately, I can't measure the alternator output while running the boat by myself. My wife can't safely get on or off the boat right now so solo is all I've got right now. However, I can monitor the Orion output via the bluetooth app. So I would hope to see that the thruster bank holds at 14.0v and the Orion puts out up to 50amps to charge the house bank. If this is the case, then I know that the alternator is putting out at least 50-65 amps depending on what the Echo Charge is going at the time.

Fortunately/unfortunately, I don't have any house bank at the moment since I've removed the old L16 AGMs. Currently, the solar, Inverter/Charger, and alternator are all charging the thruster bank and the Orion is disconnected. All house loads are being supported by the thruster bank so the boat is operational until I can get the new house batteries. But it means I can't do the testing yet that I would like.

There are some other possibilities that I am considering to be able to put more amps into the future house bank from the thruster bank but until I know what exactly will happen with the above, no sense in speculating now.

 

[luna]

dhays.

Yeah, the sum total of what I actually know is about at the point where I might even know my own name, so I still easily confuse thruster and house banks. Forgive me.

With the 15 A Echo Charger off of the thruster bank, provided the running loads of the start bank are 15 A, you should be fine. Monitoring the start battery is a good thing and should will reveal it all.

I would ensure that the alternator's charge voltage is really close to what is recommended by the manufacturer of the AGM thruster batteries as that is where all of your underway power is sourced.
Installing the Remote Sense wire will put about 14.0 V on the thruster batteries, if Delco did their job right.

Here is a chart I got from Delco's Engineering Dept. that defines the voltage limits of of their internal regulators based on temperature. All acceptable (to Delco) regulators fall between the blue and green lines.

There are ways to increase the output voltage while still using the existing internal regulator, but this would likely void the alternator's warranty and could be messy.

These regulators do not have any float voltage mode, instead they just plod along at 14.0 V in CV (absorb.) mode while satisfying the loads.

I hope this internally regulated alternator complies with the AGM battery manufacturer's charge parameters as you are basically stuck with it.
An external regulator, with its own selection, programming, installation and monitoring issues, fixes these problems. Likely voids warranty as well.

How long this once resurrected AGM thruster bank survives under this new scheme is unknown, but as they are getting more exercise I don't think that bodes well for an increase in their longevity.

I would expect that the internally regulated 28SI alternator would output no less than 80 amps all day long, provided the air flowing into the backside of the alternator is less than 100º F. and unrestricted.
DDW probably has the best insight on the capacities of a 28 SI, regardless of how it's regulated.

 

[SteveK]

Dave your numbers are accurate and in the end the most charge to the house bank will be 50A. Unless you turn everything off, maybe 35A continuous charge with 15A average estimated power to supply loads. It is this 35A estimate charge will take 10 hours engine time to recharge 350A. Never mind at the dock plugged in you can fully charge, away, at anchor with no shore or genny you will be chasing your tail. That is why I said one 460AH battery is all you need, because that is all you are possibly able to recharge running the engine.

 

[dhays]

With the 15 A Echo Charger off of the thruster bank, provided the running loads of the start bank are 15 A, you should be fine. Monitoring the start battery is a good thing and should will reveal it all.

I would ensure that the alternator's charge voltage is really close to what is recommended by the manufacturer of the AGM thruster batteries as that is where all of your underway power is sourced.
Installing the Remote Sense wire will put about 14.0 V on the thruster batteries, if Delco did their job right.

Today I started to run the remote sense wire. I'm using a 12 gauge wire and got it about 1/2 way to the alternator this afternoon. I ran into a very awkward and tight spot I need to pass the wire through. I'm going to have to do some disassembly of the ER to get the wire through.

Here is a chart I got from Delco's Engineering Dept. that defines the voltage limits of of their internal regulators based on temperature. All acceptable (to Delco) regulators fall between the blue and green lines.

That chart was interesting. I was surprised at how consistent the voltages were through the temperature range.

There are ways to increase the output voltage while still using the existing internal regulator, but this would likely void the alternator's warranty and could be messy.

Well, one thing I have considered is hooking up the battery sense wire to the new house bank. It will be at 13.9v so the alternator will just keep trying to increase the voltage and fail. Of course, unlike Sisyphus, the alternator may just get discouraged, give up, and self immolate. I have considered doing this but I would put a temperature sensitive relay on the alternator so it would cut the sense wire connection if the alternator got to hot. Without the sense wire connected, the alternator would then use the voltage at the alternators output for its regulation. Of course the big risk would be that the thruster bank could get seriously overcharged.

 

[DDW]

It can be a bad idea to run the sense wire to anything not directly charged by the alternator, or that can be disconnected from the alternator. I don't know what the internal Delco regulator will do, but an external one (Balmar or Wakespeed) will continue to increase the field to the maximum if it sees no response on the sense wire. At some point you hope it realizes its output terminal and sense wire are too far apart to make sense, both of those external ones will run the voltage to 18 or 20 with no trouble.

I had exactly this problem because of the delay in the Bluesea VSR closing. Sense wire was on the far side (hooked to house, while alternator was hooked to start) and in the 30 second delay on startup for the VSR to close, the start side would go to 17 or 18 volts. The sense wire always must see the voltage the output is at.

 

[rslifkin]

If the alternator can handle more than 50A going to the house bank, a second DC-DC can always be added in parallel to transfer more power (and if needed they can be configured to provide less than 100A total).

 

[dhays]

It can be a bad idea to run the sense wire to anything not directly charged by the alternator, or that can be disconnected from the alternator. I don't know what the internal Delco regulator will do, but an external one (Balmar or Wakespeed) will continue to increase the field to the maximum if it sees no response on the sense wire. At some point you hope it realizes its output terminal and sense wire are too far apart to make sense, both of those external ones will run the voltage to 18 or 20 with no trouble.

I had exactly this problem because of the delay in the Bluesea VSR closing. Sense wire was on the far side (hooked to house, while alternator was hooked to start) and in the 30 second delay on startup for the VSR to close, the start side would go to 17 or 18 volts. The sense wire always must see the voltage the output is at.

Exactly. As I said, there are all kinds of potential pitfalls. So it isn't anything I'm planning on doing at this time. It would take two things to make me comfortable with it. The Delco alternator runs fine without a sense wire and the sense wire is an optional installation. If the sense wire is disconnected, the alternator uses the B+ wire voltage for its regulation.

So I would need three things to make this idea workable.

1. Temperature sensor switch attached to the alternator that would open if the temperature gets above a certain level. These are pretty easy and you can find them rated for a variety of temperatures.
2. An inline switch that can change what bank the alternator is sensing, the house or the thruster. Again, this is pretty easy other than another wire run from the switch to the house bank.
3. A normally open voltage sensing relay on the sense wire that would close if the thruster voltage was below a given voltage (say 14.3v). Important that the relay fail in the open position. This would be the most difficult to source and setup.

With those the alternator would be seeing the house voltage which would max out at 13.9v. It would keep trying to increase that until the alt temp got too high, the voltage of the thruster bank was too high, or the sense wire was manually switched to the thruster bank. Again, all of the above is nothing that I'm about to try, but as you can tell it is something that I have pondered late at night as I'm trying to fall asleep.

 

[dhays]

If the alternator can handle more than 50A going to the house bank, a second DC-DC can always be added in parallel to transfer more power (and if needed they can be configured to provide less than 100A total).

I've considered this and it would work well. Two could be used where each was set to draw 40amps max from the thruster bank. That would only be half of the 160amp rating of the alternator so it should be happy.

 

[dhays]

Dave your numbers are accurate and in the end the most charge to the house bank will be 50A. Unless you turn everything off, maybe 35A continuous charge with 15A average estimated power to supply loads. It is this 35A estimate charge will take 10 hours engine time to recharge 350A. Never mind at the dock plugged in you can fully charge, away, at anchor with no shore or genny you will be chasing your tail. That is why I said one 460AH battery is all you need, because that is all you are possibly able to recharge running the engine.

Keep in mind that I do have a generator and I'm not afraid to use it. So with the genset running I can put out a max of 125amps not including the solar.

 

[SteveK]

Dave, use about 70% of the alt output to house, or 112A. Why waste the output while engines are running. You can use 100A of DC2DC.
GEN is always there.

 

[dhays]

Dave, use about 70% of the alt output to house, or 112A. Why waste the output while engines are running. You can use 100A of DC2DC.
GEN is always there.

When I get the battery sense line run and then get the new batteries in (Epoch is being slow to ship the batteries, I think Helene and the longshore strike is slowing them down) I'll be able to test things out. I do think adding another DC2DC charger may be the way to go at some point down the road.

The other option would be convert the alt to an externally regulated alternator as DDW has done along with a way to safely connect the alt to the house bank. However, I am several steps away from that at this point.

 

[dhays]

OK, another update.

I was able to get the battery sense wire run. I don't know how marine electricians do this stuff day in, day out. My body is a broken wreak from crawling around. So I ran a 12 AWG from the alternator to the thruster bank so the alternator knows what the actual voltage is.

The thruster bank (currently also doing duty as the house bank since I removed the old house AGM batteries) has been sitting at float, 13.2 volts for a while. Solar keeps it there during the day and the shore charger wakes up and refloats it for 4 hours when the voltage gets down to 12.8v. So I decided to give the alternator a test buy disconnecting the shore power, turning off the solar, and turning on the inverter. I had a some mild loads running on the inverter, a 250W oil pan heater, a fan, a small dehumidifier, the refrigerator, and a big 120v AC stereo system playing. This was in addition to the 12v fluorescent ER lights running. With all those loads, the battery voltage started to drop pretty fast. Before too long the inverter cut out due to low battery voltage.

I started the engine and let it idle at 600rpm. After a couple minutes, the inverter came back on and started inverting, and shortly afterwards the thruster bank was back to 14v. I put a clamp meter on the alternator positive feed and it was putting out about 80amps. This was running the inverter loads, DC loads, and the Echo Charge sending 15amps from the thruster bank to the start battery. Keep in mind this is a 160amp 28Si.

I then added a 600W 120v resistance heater to the above invertor loads. The battery still maintained 14.0v and when I checked the alternator output it was 120amps. Again, the engine was idling at 600rpm.

I wouldn't normally run that much inverter loads when running the engine at idle. I believe the alternator on the Cummins QSB5.9 runs at about 2.7x to 3x the engine rpm. So the alt was only spinning at about 1,700. According the power curve that Delco provides, 120amps is slightly better than what you might expect. However, I wouldn't want to run the alt that hard at that speed for very long. Higher rpms would give better fan cooling from the 28Si's twin internal fans. Power curve is below.

So far I'm happy with how much the alternator is putting out. I'm hopeful that it will help with the thruster and windlass loads, enough that I can keep this battery bank alive for a while longer. It also strongly suggests that I could easily add another Orion DC2DC charger as was discussed earlier. I'll have to keep an eye on the alternator temps. Currently, the only way I have to do that is with an IR gun.

Update: I just got an email and my batteries have shipped and should arrive next Wednesday, the 16th.

 

[luna]

Alternator RPM is equal to Crankshaft pulley diameter divided by Alternator pulley diameter (use the same units, ", mm, fathoms, whatever!) times Engine RPM.
You should ensure that your cruising Engine RPM will give you the output and cooling you need and that your Max Engine RPM does not overspeed the Alternator.

 

[DDW]

The belt ratio on a QSB (with the original alternator pulley) is 2.766 I think. Putting out 120A at idle, it will get very warm. With that ratio, it is fine at the 3050 max rpm.

 

[luna]

If you simply measure the 2 pulleys and do the math then you know the exact ratio.
At that point you don't have to say "I think"

 

[DDW]

Duh. I said "I think" because measuring the diameter of a V belt pulley, even a microV pulley, is not trivial if you want to be accurate. The ratio I quoted is from a measurement across the major diameter of the microV grooves, which is probably close to the running diameter for a microV. For this purpose close enough.

 

[dhays]

If you simply measure the 2 pulleys and do the math then you know the exact ratio.
At that point you don't have to say "I think"

Well, measuring the diameter of the crankshaft pulley is a bit of a challenge. I like math as much as the next guy, but for this situation a ratio of 2.7 to 2.8 is "good enough". At idle, the difference between the two is 60 rpm. At cruise rpm the difference is 145 rpm. I think that DDWs recollection is about right.

 

[dhays]

The belt ratio on a QSB (with the original alternator pulley) is 2.766 I think. Putting out 120A at idle, it will get very warm. With that ratio, it is fine at the 3050 max rpm.

That was my thought. I normally don't put that kind of load on the inverter at idle. However, I'm still flying solo and can't test the actual amps at normal cruise speed without leaving the helm. NOT a good idea. At my 1400-1450 cruise engine rpm, I should be just about hitting the max output of the alternator and get a lot more cooling. The other thing I can't check while running the boat solo is the alternator temp.

 

[DDW]

I found a pretty big difference in cooling between 600 idle and my 1250 normal cruise. Early in the day while still in bulk charge on the batteries, so alternator is maxed and running at the 100° limit I've set, if I cut to idle the output would get cut from maybe 100A into the batteries to 80 or a bit less to keep it under temp. Don't know what the Delco regulator would do. One wildcard in temperature is where is it measured? I think Delco allows 125° but doesn't say where. With the external regulator I've bolted the sensor to the frame, but that is about all you can do.

I measured the crank pulley with a Pi tape, can read it to 1/64". Also the Wakespeed transmits alternator rpm directly (from measuring pole passage) and then calculates engine rpm based on the pulley ratio you put into its configuration. Comparing that to the J1939 rpm (which is absolutely accurate), is how I arrived at 3 decimal accuracy .

The Wakespeed can also reduce alternator output based on rpm to account for cooling, however it also derates on temperature so I just let that take care of it.

 

[dhays]

I found a pretty big difference in cooling between 600 idle and my 1250 normal cruise. Early in the day while still in bulk charge on the batteries, so alternator is maxed and running at the 100° limit I've set, if I cut to idle the output would get cut from maybe 100A into the batteries to 80 or a bit less to keep it under temp. Don't know what the Delco regulator would do. One wildcard in temperature is where is it measured? I think Delco allows 125° but doesn't say where. With the external regulator I've bolted the sensor to the frame, but that is about all you can do.

I measured the crank pulley with a Pi tape, can read it to 1/64". Also the Wakespeed transmits alternator rpm directly (from measuring pole passage) and then calculates engine rpm based on the pulley ratio you put into its configuration. Comparing that to the J1939 rpm (which is absolutely accurate), is how I arrived at 3 decimal accuracy .

The Wakespeed can also reduce alternator output based on rpm to account for cooling, however it also derates on temperature so I just let that take care of it.

Thanks! Temperature is something that I need to figure out. I have shot the old alternator with a IR gun while it was running and have gotten a wide variation on temps depending on where I take it.

I have considered getting a simple bimetal temperature switch and put in on the battery sense wire. I could use a 100°C switch so when the Alt got to that temperature, it would start reading its own output voltage rather than the battery voltage. The difference could be a couple tenths of a volt which would reduce by a small amount how hard the alt is working to maintain the voltage.

 

[dhays]

Charger settings for a Magnasine MS2812 (rev 5.9) Inverter/Charger with ME-RC remote (rev 2.7) to use with a 2 battery bank of Epoch Essentials 460Ah (IP 54 not its IP67 big brother). I've got two batteries coming next week and I'm trying to pin down my charging profiles, even though it will take me a bit to get the batteries installed.The batteries will form a 12v house bank. Charging sources are the above inverter/charger, a Victron 12v 30a MPPT controller with a 365W panel, and an Orion XS 50a DC2DC charger feeding up to 50a of alternator current through the thruster agm bank. My current question is how to setup the Magnasine MS2812.

This is all new to me, so those of you who do know this stuff, I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I have in mind.
Here is what I have so far.
Custom battery type (no CC/CV or LP options).Absorb Voltage: 13.9v. From what I've been reading, the Epoch battery BMS doesn't like it if the battery spends too long at 14.0v so setting an absorb voltage of 13.8-13.9 is the current recommendation. The inverter doesn't have a battery voltage sensor connected so it only knows the charge voltage at the inverter. There is some voltage drop between the inverter and battery. At 14.4v where it currently charges the AGM batteries, there is about a 0.2v drop. I will measure what the actual battery voltage is compared to what the charger thinks it is at 13.9v and possibly adjust the absorb volage in the charger to compensate.

Absorb Time: 30 minutes ( this is the shortest time that my combination of remote and inverter is capable of there is a chance that it might take 6 minutes, .1 hour, but I will have to check. If I set .1 hour and it won't support it, it will revert to the 1.5 hour default.
If the inverter can't handle the 6 minute time, I may see about lowering the absorb voltage to 13.8v to avoid overcharging.Float Voltage: 13.5
Charge Rate 80% (this is 100amps for two batteries. Epoch recommended charge rate is 50amps per battery and the max charge rate current is 200amps per battery.
Final Charge: Multi or Silent. This one is a bit complicated. Multi will cause the charger to go into "Full Charge mode" after being in Float with no DC load on the batteries for 4 hours. The charger will monitor the battery voltage and if it drops below 12.7v it will return to float mode. Once the Float voltage is reached and maintained for 4 hours, it will again return to Full Charge mode. If my solar keeps up with any DC loads and keeps the battery above the 12.7v, then the charger will stay off. It will continue to cycle this way for as long as they charger has AC power.

Silent is a little different. After the absorb charge ends it goes to "Silent". There is no float mode and the charger will stay off until the battery voltage hits a re-bulk voltage that you set. When it hits that voltage, it starts another bulk-absorb-silent cycle. If my solar keeps the battery above the re-bulk voltage, the charger will stay off indefinitely. If I chose this, I don't know what I should set as the re-bulk voltage.
I'm not sure which would be best. The Silent mode would allow the batteries to cycle deeper, but it would be taking it to the absorb voltage more frequently.
Keep in mind that daily the solar charger will be going through its own bulk-absorb-float cycle every day when the sun comes up. Some days up there, it will never reach the absorb voltage do to lack of sun.
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm open to ideas and suggestions.

 

[Barking Sands]

On the 460 Essentials it is not quite as finicky as the 460 Marine and you can use anywhere from 13.9 to 14.2. The Essential does not have "Full Charge Protection" and just has the standard limit protections such as 14.6 pack and 3.65 cell voltage as well as the low voltage and temp protections.
Float 13.4 or 13.5.
If you use 13.9 then you can do a bit of absorb time. if you go 14.2 then you wont need much if any absorb.

 

[dhays]

On the 460 Essentials it is not quite as finicky as the 460 Marine and you can use anywhere from 13.9 to 14.2. The Essential does not have "Full Charge Protection" and just has the standard limit protections such as 14.6 pack and 3.65 cell voltage as well as the low voltage and temp protections.
Float 13.4 or 13.5.
If you use 13.9 then you can do a bit of absorb time. if you go 14.2 then you wont need much if any absorb.

I missed this post until now. It is good to know that I don't have to worry about the full charge protection "feature" of the 460 Marine.

I installed the two batteries in the boat yesterday. The installation is almost complete. I have a couple cable changes to make yet, but it i essentially done.

I have the Inverter/charge currently set to charge at 14.2v with only an 18 minute absorb time. Then it will shut down until the battery hits a re-bulk voltage of 13.2v.

The Victron 100-30 MPPT solar controller will charge to 13.9v then absorb until a tail current of 3.6 volts then float at 13.5v.

Orion DC2DC charger will do the same as the solar controller and will run when the alt is feeding the thruster bank.

 

[Delta Riverat]

That should work well. You're gonna love those new batts!

 

[dhays]

I finally finished my install of the Epoch Essentials 460Ah batteries.
I replaced my dead house AGM bank with 2 of the Epoch batteries. These are not the 460Ah "Marine" batteries, but the less expensive Epoch Essentials 460Ah.

I connected the batteries in parallel by connecting each of their positive and negative terminals to a HD Blue Sea 1/2/Off/1+2 battery switch. Essentially, they are acting as bus bars that have the benefit of a switch. I used 2/0 cable for these connections and then 95mm2 cable from the switches to the Negative shunt and positive house bus.

Each positive battery cable has a Class-T 250amp fuse. I made some copper bars to connect the battery terminal directly to the fuse block.

The bank has three ways of being charged. The Magnum MS2812 inverter charger when on shore power or running the genet. A Victron 100-30 MPPT solar controller, and a Victron Orion DC2DC charger from the thruster bank which is fed by the internally regulated 160amp alternator when the engine is running.

I'm going to take the boat out tomorrow to spend the night and see how it all performs.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Nice work! Love the copper bars.

 

[Barking Sands]

and a Victron Orion DC2DC charger from the thruster bank which is fed by the internally regulated 160amp alternator when the engine is running.

I installed the Orion 50 amp dc2dc charger last week. What a great piece of equipment. The fact that you can set amps from .1 to 50 is a great feature. When I run my gen with it's little 55 amp Hitachi I was able to increase the load of the Orion up to 30 amps incrementally to see what additional power I could " steal" from the running gen. So the gen powered the multiplus2 for about 110 charge amps, it also powered the plug in Ip22 charger for 30 amps and now I can steal another 30 amps off the gen alternator for a total of around 170 charge amps. I really need to add solar soon though.

Good luck on your trial run. I'm sure it will be great.

 

[luna]

I'm sure that you are anxious to put the system into service.

Your choice of a European conductor size, 95 mm2 (about = to 3.5/000) seems a bit different. What was the logic used to determine that size?

Where did you source the proper conductor (strand count and temperature rating) and terminals?

 

[dhays]

I'm sure that you are anxious to put the system into service.

Your choice of a European conductor size, 95 mm2 (about = to 3.5/000) seems a bit different. What was the logic used to determine that size?

Where did you source the proper conductor (strand count and temperature rating) and terminals?

Remember I’m a cheap sailor at heart.

The boat was built in China, commissioned in Seattle by a Canadian based company. The 95mm2 cable was what was used when the boat was built. It is cable made in Italy I believe. 105C temp rated tinned marine cable. So, I had the original cables, but they were just a bit longer than I needed and needed new lugs. I took them to a marine electrician in town and one of them cut the cable and put a new lug on. The lug was a 4/0 lug. The mm2 of a 4/0 is 107mm2. It was “close enough”. I provided the lugs, so the electrician didn’t even bother to charge me.

I could have bought new 4/0 cables, but it would have been relatively expensive. I was able to check today and with the charger putting out 100 amps at 14v, there was less than .04v drop from the house bus to the battery switch. That include wire and connection losses.

I felt OK with reusing this cable. The other option was spending about $100 each for them after tax and shipping.

 

[dhays]

I installed the Orion 50 amp dc2dc charger last week. What a great piece of equipment. The fact that you can set amps from .1 to 50 is a great feature. When I run my gen with it's little 55 amp Hitachi I was able to increase the load of the Orion up to 30 amps incrementally to see what additional power I could " steal" from the running gen. So the gen powered the multiplus2 for about 110 charge amps, it also powered the plug in Ip22 charger for 30 amps and now I can steal another 30 amps off the gen alternator for a total of around 170 charge amps. I really need to add solar soon though.

Good luck on your trial run. I'm sure it will be great.

I had issues with the Orion today. At some point, I blew the 60a MRBF on the output side. The Orion worked great before, but not at all today so the fuse was blown before I started. Idiot that I am, I don’t have a spare, and since I don’t know why or when it blew I’m not going to put a 300a fuse that I have on it. So that is still something to work out.