Teak Deck replacement on GB32

[GB32Patience]

I am posting this as both a source of information for anyone considering going down this path as well as to draw comment as I am reasonably sure of my replacement direction but always open to suggestion from this Forums' wealth of experience.

Vessel and Deck Condition: 1978 Grand Banks Sedan, vessel generally "good" condition but decking 90% of bungs popped and sanded flush with screw heads, followed by what I can only assume was a power wash as many deep valleys have been etched into the planking (Arg!). Many areas with seemingly "floating" planks, lacking solid attachment beneath. Exploratory removal of caulking reveals not full depth caulking seams but a rabbet (thanks dave!), or shelf routed into the edges of the planks so that they were laid edge to edge but allowing the rabbeted edge to hold the caulking. In many cases, the depth of this caulking seam is only 1/16" deep, leaving 0 depth for redressing existing planking that would ultimately end up with 3/16" thickness.

Current state and interim approach: After receiving several budgetary quotes (see following) of potential alternate re-decking products, still holding onto the idea that I might be able to remove, redress and reinstall the current decking.... I determined that the complexity of this endeavor, along with other projects scheduled for this season (Head replace, Fuel tank replace, continued teak refinishing) would only allow me to "proof of concept" the aft cockpit, which, on the GB 32 is reasonable... approx. 78 Sq, Ft. So.... my process brought me to the removal of my aft teak decking.. believe it or not, this was the easy part... after removal of several hundred screws, in this case, with only 5% requiring bung removal (only minimal agnst)... my decking literally "popped" off.... zero issue.... approx. 10% glue adhesion left... See Post "Using CEPS and Teak Deck Removal" by grahamdouglass for what is claimed to be a unique approach to removal.... I would say that if you have easy access to screw removal, an old deck will pop off...... that being said, after deck removal and occilatting multi tool, random and belt sander, i'm down to bare glass. Could be worse... When I pulled the deck it was WET underneath but after several 1 1/4" pilot core tests, we are looking pretty good... damp in some areas but far from the saturated mush I have experienced on other (my) boats.... in addition to additional sounding of the deck (thanks Dave once more), I do plan to establish a "grid" of core samples across the entire deck over the next few days. In the mean time, I am "cooking" the deck from below with a portable heater. If I have to re-core sections, I will.. Not going to cover over bad...This brings me to current state.

What should I put back down?: Starting back in November, I started my search for what I "might" have to replace a yet undiagnosed deck with... at this point, after removing the aft deck, further understanding of it's condition and some much appreciated consult from a fine gent at TDS, use of the existing deck has been ruled out. Essentially disassembling each plank of the existing, separating from each other and removal of black caulking, adhesive and essentially redressing each side of each plank only to be left with 3/16" to 1/4" at best of remaining wood.... then to re-glue, piece by piece, and recaulk... believe me... I considered it.... but it would have left me with a deck that had only several years left.... after tons of labor.... eh... nope. So.. here are my options: Remember, this is for aft deck only (78 Sq Ft.):

Full scale Teak Deck replacement (TDS).. (responsibly harvested Teak) templated by me and constructed in FL factory in panels that I would install... Materials approx....$9,000. The real deal.

FlexiTeek PVC (actually 20 mins from me on Long Island): I would template, they would create three pieces. A single piece for the greater deck, then two pieces for the two hatches: Materials including glue: approx. $4,700.

Permateek: PVC (constructed in CAN and shipped to US). templating and construction similar to Flexiteek: Materials including shipping and glue: approx. $3,500

SeaCork: Cork Interesting approach constructed and shipped from France from recycled wine corks! A panel approach that I would essentially "fit" to my space.... Materials, shipping and glue, approx. $2,722 PLUS fiberglass coating of existing decking.

SeaDek: PE/EVA Foam decking: I would template with acetate templating kit, send to factory, they would bid and currently looking at 5-6 month lead time.... Materials including pre-stick: $1,800-$2,000, PLUS fiberglass coating of existing decking.

Pre-paneled/caulked Teak (World Panel): I would order based on square footage and assemble on site: Materials, shipping, glue and framing stock: approx. $6,500

Finish, glass and non-skid current deck: Additional details provided below but estimated materials: approx. $1,200, Includes fiberglass coating of existing decking but requires additional build coat.

Decisions, decisions.... where am I now..... Long story short, take all the above numbers and multiply by 3 for a reality check on completing the entire vessel... that being said... The real teak replacement... take the environmental aspect, the ongoing maintenance and the cost... NO GO... IF, I had an unlimited budget, I would go FlexiTeek as it is most realistic, lighter, designed to be less hot on the feet and has a really nice weathered teak rendition.... NO CAN DO $$$.. The PermaTeek was very tempting as it overall was very close to the FlexiTeek in function, visual, a little more heavy but notably less $$... still X3 and out of the budget... but geeze.... tempting as I could close to order, receive, glue down and be done... NO GO..... The SeaCork was interesting (got samples for $35), but too many unknowns. NO GO... The SeaDek.. OK, the one folks love to hate... We had a small cockpit custom done for a prior sailboat and it worked quite well.... yep... no way is it a PVC product "for life" and would probably need to be replaced in 6-8 years (short NE season..), but right now they have a 5-6 month waiting list and I would need to "beef up" the under deck which I would be doing regardless for a glass approach.... possibly on hold?

Net, net... where I am heading: Yeah, I would love that FlexiTeek but I need to balance the funding of our vessel.. and I do have the skills to put down a pretty reasonable non-skid glass deck. Had some experience last year restoring a battered SUP as well as modifying/constructing a new swim platform for Patience so pretty comfortable with a combination of AlexSeal and Soft Sand as demo'ed on "Boatworks Today". Really happy with results on Swim Platform (will post photos) and am looking at that approach for the surface.

OPEN Question::: Not that I am excluding comment on the above but have not heard anyone going the glass/nonskid approach address the following: In our cockpit, there was essentially a "gutter" formed as the teak decking ended shy of the cockpit walls by about an inch creating a lower area port/stbd. and aft for the water to flow to the scuppers.... simply, laying down a coat or two of glass and epoxy over-coated by AlexSeal and Softsand is not going to create enough height difference to re-create this gutter environment I would like to see. My thoughts are to lay down either 3/8" or 1/2" Marine ply to build the decking back up to the height of the original teak decking, this creating the gutters and directing water as required. Yes, a bit of edge sealing and addressing the finished edge of the ply... understood. Yes, thinking about Coosa as well....

Thanks for hanging in there/here if you made it this far.... feel free to talk me back into the FlexiTeek but.... we have alot to do on this boat and having an economical, safe, finished deck that looks "Good!" is our priority....

I know there are many options out there.. what did I miss or look out for?

 

[Comodave]

Maybe just lay on a couple of layers of 1708 on top and the paint it with Kiwigrip. Kiwigrip is simple to use and it will cover a multitude of minor imperfections in the new glass. It wears like iron and is easy to repair, other than it takes a belt sander to get it off.

 

[Martin J]

Hi GB Patience
Just doing the same to my flybridge. The teak bungs gone down to the screw heads in places. some screws loos dampness migrating into the marine ply underneath. I also had the same on my last Cheoy Lee. One supposes that's what you get for buying a 40 yr old boat. The only different thing I've done was to sound the deck and find a hollowish sounding lower area. I connected a vacuum pump from Hbr freight, ($100) connected to a collecting reservoir. I then drilled a few holes in choice spots and let it run. I probably sucked 10 galls of water out of a 17x 40ft deck. I ran the vacuum daily often over a period of weeks, I was somewhat amazed the amount that came out. I have since injected slow setting penetrating epoxy. Wherever I could introduce it to . Down every screw hole etc. My last boat I did I used International deck paint. It still looked good after 5 yrs. I will do the same this time. I might add that I've seen decks done using pool and patio paint (because of the toughness), That has amazed me of the longevity and finish as well. This time I will probably go the international paint route again.

 

[BruceK]

The need for 1 or 2 layers of fibreglass is to restore stiffness lost removing the old teak.
Not 100% sure, it was a while ago, but think I`ve seen the cork product and it was ok. Many cork products, wine corks, flooring tiles, etc are made of cork pieces, not solid cork so ground up champagne cork sounds ok, esp if you like champagne. Problem would be freighting it from France, undamaged

 

[GB32Patience]

Thanks Dave,
Did some tests on Kiwigrip in the past (many years back) and was very impressed with the non-slip pattern that it created but I recall that there were several levels of "aggressiveness" on the application roller, and I think I used the most aggressive and just picturing bare feet on that surface, not to mention kneeling was painfull.... other than that, the application and perceived lasting quality of the coating was quite impressive for a one part product (one part, if I recall correctly as this could have been close to 10 years ago).. worth a revisit... possibly the build of this and the glass could create my "gutter"... may need to do a test.... (just ran to the bsmt. as I thought I saw my Kiwi Qt. recently and even the sample board).... yes... keep too much.. But I may recall it recently as I may have made that final decision to can it.... therein lies to rule of tossing things out.... toss it.... and you'll need it..

See attached swim platform approach... not great detail but came out super even. Definitely will revisit Kiwi as it would same me a few steps!.

Thanks!

View attachment SP P.pdf

View attachment SP SS.pdf

 

[GB32Patience]

Thanks BruceK, Yep, I am seeing that. Although I think the underdeck and coreing are intact, I am getting the feel that they are (were) relying on the upper teak layer for additional structural integrity... so... ply or glass, or both... I still want my gutter! I'll take another look at the cork... the sample is pretty solid but still seems like a chunk could be taken out of it with the wrong move.... I do like the look and feel.

 

[GB32Patience]

Thanks MartinJ,
Wow... that much water... was it soggy, or just damp? My ply core is damp to the touch but not delaminating... I will be dropping many holes as they are easy enough to fill and may even add some structural integrity if I connect the lower and top layers of glass with a solid short glass cylinder.... hmmmm.

You all have me thinking of skipping the ply and ultimately see if I can build up at least 3/16 of layered glass and epoxy and leave a "gutter around the perimeter where there was no teak to begin with....

All feedback much appreciated!

 

[Snapdragon III]

I would get the deck dried out and the holes sealed first, which you will want to do whether or not you add a layer of plywood for the gutter. Then test the deck out with a hose and see how it drains, and if you are happy with it forget the gutter. If it sucks, build the gutter.

 

[Comodave]

I painted the decks with Kiwigrip and used the supplied roller to give it quite a bit of texture. I painted the top of the hardtop since the gel coat was chalky and put white streaks down the eisenglass in the enclosure. I used a 3/8” regular roller and the texture was very small, almost smooth. But it stopped the white streaks. So depends on the riller you use as to what texture you get.

 

[Choices]

I have GB factory fiberglass decks. Kind of rare.

No water channels on the deck. Everything is smooth and water runs down outside edge.

The texture is very fine almost like powdered sugar. Easy on bare feet but plenty of traction.

Factory fiberglass decks had an extra layup for more strength than a teak deck. Per the old IGBOA site.

 

[koliver]

this: https://www.marineengine.com/boat-accessories/general-boating/JWTU008320

 

[backinblue]

Not to talk you into the faux teak, but I can comment on them since I did some research before doing some of my decking in Permateek.

Researching online reviews and comparisons, Permateek was a top choice by many and it's what I've had on my boat for a few seasons now. It looks and feels like real wood and is maintenance free. It can even be sanded as the colors and textures go through the entire thickness. The construction with factory welded seems is among the best in the industry. I did look at FlexiTeek too. It's very similar but was more expensive. Some of their products are a little lighter, more geared to sailboat racers where a few pounds might matter. The way they make them lighter is by extra pressing processes that yields a thinner product. This also adds cost. Don't think that FlexiTeek is cooler, it's not. All the faux teaks get hot in the full sun. The main differences are in the color you choose. FlexiTeek being thinner and less mass will cool down faster, but it still gets just as hot. PermaTeek, and I'm sure others as well, are available in a variety of colors, caulk colors, and pattern and border designs. I'm guessing you've seen plenty of pictures and samples, but I'm very pleased with it. I did the design but not the install. If there's any other questions, let me know.

 

[GB32Patience]

Thanks "backinblue" for the input here. Honestly would love to go PermaTeek but have too many other areas of this old boat that require$$, and too much square footage to cover. That, I'm not complaining about as therein lies what we love about our GB... lots of deck space. The main reason I put Flexi at the top of the list was a super realistic color offering and slightly narrower "plank" width... but not worth the 25-30% additional cost for sure... also would have liked to go with a local provider as they (the local assembler) are only 20 mins from my home. Well done for you and I bet the PermaTeek looks beautiful on your boat and will no doubt outlast many other elements!

 

[GB32Patience]

Thanks koliver, yes, good old TREADMAster. Probably as tough as anything going and pretty easy install... fewer color selections but interesting to see the Teak option... on the list. The build would create my gutter as well..

 

[backinblue]

No worries GB, totally undestand. Good luck with whatever you end up with and keep us updated with pics.

Some of the synthetic teaks have a very orange color that you can spot a mile away. Here's a couple pics of how mine came out from the installer's website:

https://www.northcountryboatworks.com/permateek?lightbox=dataItem-k228d7h51

https://www.northcountryboatworks.com/permateek?lightbox=dataItem-k228d7h41

 

[bowball]

Very thoughtful logical original post and interesting.
I still love real teak decking though as it’s so elegant! It would be “wrong” to ever have anything different on my boat, as that’s how the manufacturer has always done it. (They offer an option of the foc’sle being fiberglass but I’ve never seen one that way).

It sounds like you are doing it very well and very thoughtfully.

 

[Comodave]

I love the look and feel of teak decking on your boat, because it is beautiful and I don’t have to maintain it. If it would be on my boat, then actually it wouldn’t be on my boat, I wouldn’t own it.

 

[bowball]

I love the look and feel of teak decking on your boat, because it is beautiful and I don’t have to maintain it. If it would be on my boat, then actually it wouldn’t be on my boat, I wouldn’t own it.

Life needs more beauty

 

[Comodave]

Life needs more beauty

As long as it is on your boat.

 

[GB32Patience]

Agreeing with all of the above, if I can't move forward with teak, I still want to do the old gal justice... hence much of my agnst of what I can afford to put down... and not distract from the head turner of a vessel we have. I have a few creative ideas.... will post progress for sure.

 

[CharlieO.]

Hello Patience, some has previously done our decking, it feels solid to me. Not sure what method they did but the finish coat is paint. It doesn’t feel or look like they went over the original teak, maybe plywood with glass over top. I’ve never investigated it yet. I’ll put a new coat of awl grip on it this summer.

 

[bowball]

As long as it is on your boat.

Of course. And I’ll have you over for drinks so you can admire as long as you want. As long as you don’t spill the drink on my deck and also take your shoes off!

I’m sure the OP’s deck will turn out great. I have covered storage so that makes teak easier but I definitely understand it’s not for everyone. And there are different boats where I wouldn’t want it too.

 

[Polaris]

Treadmaster PSA.

 

[GB32Patience]

Hmmmm. I like it. Looking it up now... Colors, adhesion process, etc. The "original" TreadMaster is tough stuff... looks like they are providing some additional options. Thanks!

 

[Kurplunk]

...Per the old IGBOA site.

Do you have access to this site or just archived knowledge?

 

[Bryant]

Deck

Agreeing with all of the above, if I can't move forward with teak, I still want to do the old gal justice... hence much of my agnst of what I can afford to put down... and not distract from the head turner of a vessel we have. I have a few creative ideas.... will post progress for sure.

My boat had the teak decks removed and then glassed and nonskid. I recommend that for all kinds of reasons. There is enough teak on a GB that you don’t need the headache, maintenance and problems that water intrusion causes. If you do a proper job of insuring no wood rot under the teak and then glassing the deck, you won’t regret it.

 

[GB32Patience]

Treadmaster reference

Hey @Kerplunk, Yep, I had access to and acknowledged the prior Treadmaster post and it's definitely on the list but the more recent post looked as it had a more recent application and potentially color approach. It turns out that there are in fact, additional textures, beyond the original "diamond", more utilitarian pattern that we (I) typically identify with Treadmaster and displayed in the original post. Ultimately, it's all contributing to our final choice of deck coatings.... At this point, it looks like we will be laying 3/8" ply as I really don't want to loose he "gutter", on top of that..... leaning towards non-skid or Kiwi.. but Treadmaster, with the peel and stick approach is pretty tempting, especially with the detail and application shown in the recent post.

Not sure if that answered your question regarding access to archives but that's where we're at! Thanks!

 

[GB32Patience]

Glassed decking color and approach?

Hey @Bryant,
Thanks for the reference and direction here. Do you have any images/photos of your finished decking? Interested in colors, (have seen some nice tan) implementations but realize there are many, many approaches. Also, taping the edges, gloss going to non-skid, etc. and patterns that might be realistic. Right now, we are doing the aft cockpit as a proof of concept, with the two hatch doors in our basement for the "test panels" approach... will decide coating within next few weeks. Any info on application, colors, patterns, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GB32Patience]

Images from Patience decking removal

here are a few images taken through my process:
- Assessment of decking
- Removal of aft hatches for "proof of concept"
- After screw removal, decking essentially "popped off"
- Scraping and grinding off the adhesive
- Exploratory "wells" to determine condition of coring...
- Three levels of core health
----- mush/empty approx. 10%
----- ply split/damaged approx. 20%
----- looking intact/solid approx. 70%

 

[Polaris]

Patience,


It looks like you've done the hard part. i had good luck using an Electrophysics CT-30 moisture meter to map my deck. The measurement is relative, so 20% is dry and the other photo speaks for itself.