Switch from electric to propane

[Aqualund1981]

Thinking about switching our stove to propane
Electric has never heated well and we must run generator.
What are the pit falls and is there a best option?
1981 Grand Banks classic

 

[Porgy]

Just that the installation needs to be done competently to ABYC standards. Sealed propane locker with overboard drain, solenoid valve, one piece continuous hose from regulator to stove through sealed bulkheads, propane sensors at bottle and stove connected to solenoid cutoff valve.

I’m giving thought to an electric induction cooktop but I want the battery capacity to use it without running the generator and figuring out a stove option and the requisite carpentry and granite to install it all. That leads me down a technical and logistical project rabbit hole I’m avoiding for now. So propane is fine for us.

 

[MYTraveler]

one piece continuous hose from regulator to stove through sealed bulkheads . . .

Rather than hose, mine uses heavy-walled copper tubing, with proper support and chafe protection. The tubing is one-piece, but for fittings in the propane locker and at the stove (there is also a built-in propane BBQ plumbed the same way.

My builder advised against propane, not because of safety concerns but because of potentially increased insurance costs and diminished resale value. So far, insurance hasn't been a problem and the stove is pre-wired for a simple conversion to electric. The builder also suggested that insurance problems could be mitigated to a conversion to CNG (which, unlike propane, is lighter than air and therefore presents much less explosion risk), but since CNG is typically harder to find in remote areas, I went with propane. No regrets.

 

[MacPhid]

We just switched out our 110v Princess 3 burner stove/oven to a Dickinson Mediterranean 3 burner propane stove/oven. Dickinson was also able to provide a custom 38' hose to run from the new Trident propane locker to the stove's location in the galley. Stove was a perfect replacement for the old (1989) electric. Very happy with the quality of the stove, and the Trident locker was a complete kit with all necessary safety hardware already installed. Locker was installed in the cockpit and plumbed and vented to standards.


James

 

[ranger58sb]

Thinking about switching our stove to propane
Electric has never heated well and we must run generator.
What are the pit falls and is there a best option?
1981 Grand Banks classic

I think were it me, and because we already have a combo microwave/convection oven/air fryer so that influences my thoughts...

I'd probably add an inverter (and more batteries if necessary)... and then replace a resistance cooktop with an induction cooktop.

We generally run the genset at least once/day anyway, sometimes twice... so timing that with cooking while heating water and charging batteries hasn't been a bit deal.

And staying electric would avoid adding yet another system that I'd have to maintain...

-Chris

 

[DavidM]

An induction cooktop can be a good solution. We installed this one in our Mainship Pilot 34 to replace the resistance cooktop: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019KZXVHE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It probably uses about half of the electric energy to boil a pot of water or cook in a skillet due to its efficient heat transfer. It does require changing to steel bottom cookware to work with the induction element.

It will heat a quart of water to boiling using 10-15 amp hours from house batteries using an inverter to power it.

David

 

[tiltrider1]

When converting from electric to propane you have two major concerns. Where to locate the propane tank and how to route the hose. I recommend installing a propane monitoring system with an auto shut off solenoid.

 

[koliver]

We just switched out our 110v Princess 3 burner stove/oven to a Dickinson Mediterranean 3 burner propane stove/oven. Dickinson was also able to provide a custom 38' hose to run from the new Trident propane locker to the stove's location in the galley. Stove was a perfect replacement for the old (1989) electric. Very happy with the quality of the stove, and the Trident locker was a complete kit with all necessary safety hardware already installed. Locker was installed in the cockpit and plumbed and vented to standards.


James

This shows that is can be done, without adding any risk.
Your GB classic, had it come from the factory with propane, Has a locker under the port front seat up top, with the tank(s) and solenoid, a drain, and is not located over an opening window. In those pre fit GBs, there is usually a valve protruding into the galley overhead, that gives you a positive (nothing beats a positive touchy, feely valve for complete confidence) shut-off. Converting your own locker will only involve sealing and a drain that is easily routed to drain to the side deck, where any propane, if there was ever a leak, being heavier than air, will find a safe pathway to the sea.

In practice, see threads on fires. You will not find any mention of fires from properly installed propane systems discussed here, as they only occur in theory, as far as I know. Alcohol is much more of a fire hazard as a cooking fuel.

 

[CaptTom]

I prefer cooking with gas but I never found it worth the effort to switch, for all the reasons Chris mentions above.

The other big negative is that a boat is a small, enclosed space. A gas stove will put out more heat, and there's been a lot of talk about indoor air pollution from gas stoves these days. I think California even banned them in new homes. This is obviously more significant in a much smaller space.

I have a gas grill out on deck, which I find I use more anyway.

 

[Moonfish]

We are watching the cost of propane with a somewhat wary eye, as it fuels 3 separate devices onboard our vessel: a range/oven, a fireplace in the main cabin, and a grill on the aft deck.

Our range is a Force 10. And while the oven is problematic (doesn’t like to heat more than 315 degrees or so), the 3-burners are seemingly very efficient. We have two 2.5 gallon tanks that feed it, and one lasts 3-4 months. We would like a new unit that heats enough for baking, but we have a toaster oven that works just fine.

If we were to replace the Force 10, even at propane prices today we would still stick with propane.

 

[Comodave]

If you are going to DIY read all the ABYC recommendations and make sure you understand them. If you are going to have a yard do the work stipulate that the install will be done to ABYC recommendations. And then either way you go have a qualified surveyor check out the installation.

 

[Portage_Bay]

If you're new to propane installation here's a good link to get started http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Safe Boat propane Installation.htm understanding what makes a safe installation. DIY or professional installation.

 

[Xlantic]

My previous boat was a 1979 Grand Banks 42 Classic and it had the factory set-up described by Keith.

My current boat had an electric stove and oven but I switched to LPG. I created a vented locker under the flying bridge seat and ran copper tubing straight down to the galley. I added a solenoid valve and a gas detector.

I am very happy with the switch. In fact, I am in the process of removing my ancient Onan which I seldom used and will be relying on solar panels (~2 kW) and 100 A alternators for power away from the dock.

 

[SteveK]

Dropped in a new propane stove/oven last year. What has changed is the new model has the safety feature, no gas unless there is fire. You have to push and hold while lighting. The old one there was gas as soon as the knob was turned on.
IF any propane stove fires are found the leaks were not necessarily other than from the burner not fully turned off.

 

[Xlantic]

Dropped in a new propane stove/oven last year. What has changed is the new model has the safety feature, no gas unless there is fire. You have to push and hold while lighting. The old one there was gas as soon as the knob was turned on.
IF any propane stove fires are found the leaks were not necessarily other than from the burner not fully turned off.

Yes, that is an indispensable safety feature.

My earlier boat did not have that but I made sure the stove-oven I bought for my current boat did.

 

[Bmarler]

We are watching the cost of propane with a somewhat wary eye, as it fuels 3 separate devices onboard our vessel: a range/oven, a fireplace in the main cabin, and a grill on the aft deck.

Our range is a Force 10. And while the oven is problematic (doesn’t like to heat more than 315 degrees or so), the 3-burners are seemingly very efficient. We have two 2.5 gallon tanks that feed it, and one lasts 3-4 months. We would like a new unit that heats enough for baking, but we have a toaster oven that works just fine.

If we were to replace the Force 10, even at propane prices today we would still stick with propane.

we have a two burner force 10 and like it very well. the oven heats like you would expect, and the broiler element is great. weird that yours won't heat past 315. plugged orifice maybe?

 

[BruceK]

Current boat is all electric,even the bbq. Previous boat(an IG) had propane/LPG. I suggest a 2 bottle set up switchable between bottles. When one empties switch tanks and refill the empty one. You can use commercially available bottles, around 5kg is good. The IG had an under seat tank set up on the FB where the bottles sat side by side fitted into a custom wooden restraint with the central switch connected to both bottles. Worked very well.

 

[David Griffiths]

What about a diesel cooktop or oven or both? Less moisture.
Wallis is one brand I'm aware of. Made in Finland exquisite quality.
Quick true story:
Experienced seaman (International seaman of the year twice, Roger Wallis)
Year 2020 he covered 44000 sea miles incl the northwest passage
He witnessed a gas explosion on a boat next to him when in Ushuaia. (Chilean navy yacht). 3 severely injured crew.
Later on a passage from Ushuaia to The Netherlands, his crew heard a noise, it was gas whistling from a fractured gas line. No smell as gas in South America does not have an odour/indicator added to it.
Roger makes a general observation that it is possible some of the boats missing at sea with no sign, could be a gas explosion. Possibly drawing a "long bow" but bears thinking about.

 

[Simi 60]

And staying electric would avoid adding yet another system that I'd have to maintain...

-Chris

What maintenance would that be?
Have had gas in multiple vessels over 30 years and apart from cleaning the stove like you do with any other, no maintenance ever.

 

[David Griffiths]

Correction (sorry) the diesel stove brand is Wallas.

 

[ranger58sb]

What maintenance would that be?
Have had gas in multiple vessels over 30 years and apart from cleaning the stove like you do with any other, no maintenance ever.

Don't know, really, but I'd have thought periodically inspecting all the lines and valves and so forth would be appropriate? And then cleaning the appliances?

Cleaning our existing glass cooktop is a breeze, cleaning our existing convection thing is easy enough, cleaning our portable (outside) propane BBQ is a PITA.

I might have added we don't routinely see marine fuel docks with available propane... so refilling means a trip, somehow. I might just about be able to carry a 20-lb propane tank on my folding bike. Maybe. And that assumes a supplier within bicycle distance (which gets shorter as I get older).

My thoughts about mostly staying "as is" are mostly driven along the line of least resistance, of course...

-Chris

 

[Iggy]

I am going from propane to electric. I don't like the idea of using a gas that can go BOOM.

As others have said, they are using microwaves, air fryers, toaster ovens and coffer pots. Using the genset for me is no big deal. Its not like I use it a lot, and it should be used every week or two. Engines like to be used!

Plus having a 3000W inverter inverter helps too. If I get up in the morning before my wife I still make coffee without waking her and my dog. My dog is what I am worried about. If I wake him up, that means I must lower the inflatable and take him ashore before I am ready.

 

[ranger58sb]

Um, I forgot to mention the inverter, too.

Yep, that solves early morning coffee and Sundowner hors d' oeuvres easily (and quietly) enough.

-Chris

 

[Aqualund1981]

Thanks to everyone Great info
Looks like a good option
Getting ready to semi retire and cruise much longer trips

 

[Bmarler]

What about a diesel cooktop or oven or both? Less moisture.
Wallis is one brand I'm aware of. Made in Finland exquisite quality.
Quick true story:
Experienced seaman (International seaman of the year twice, Roger Wallis)
Year 2020 he covered 44000 sea miles incl the northwest passage
He witnessed a gas explosion on a boat next to him when in Ushuaia. (Chilean navy yacht). 3 severely injured crew.
Later on a passage from Ushuaia to The Netherlands, his crew heard a noise, it was gas whistling from a fractured gas line. No smell as gas in South America does not have an odour/indicator added to it.
Roger makes a general observation that it is possible some of the boats missing at sea with no sign, could be a gas explosion. Possibly drawing a "long bow" but bears thinking about.

we always used dickinson diesel stoves on the fishing boats, but they typically take a long time to warm up. we'd start ours at the beginning of the season and turn it off at the end. it was our cook stove and source of heat.
these are totally impractical for warmer climates, but were awesome in alaska.

 

[Flatswing]

This shows that is can be done, without adding any risk.
Your GB classic, had it come from the factory with propane, Has a locker under the port front seat up top, with the tank(s) and solenoid, a drain, and is not located over an opening window. In those pre fit GBs, there is usually a valve protruding into the galley overhead, that gives you a positive (nothing beats a positive touchy, feely valve for complete confidence) shut-off. Converting your own locker will only involve sealing and a drain that is easily routed to drain to the side deck, where any propane, if there was ever a leak, being heavier than air, will find a safe pathway to the sea.

In practice, see threads on fires. You will not find any mention of fires from properly installed propane systems discussed here, as they only occur in theory, as far as I know. Alcohol is much more of a fire hazard as a cooking fuel.

Agree: My ‘98 GB 36 classic had the princess electric. But the Port locker already had the overboard drain and the wiring was in place for the solenoid under a blank in the galley ceiling which would make propane conversion easier.
One other thought: check all the electrical connections & the burner elements on your current 110v stove. I have a 3 burner Princess - the burners (2 high, 1 low are mis-labeled). Despite this, the Princess on my current boat heats as quickly as our propane Wolf at home; so we just have short generator runs for meals. The forums are rife with generator problems & complaints, but most are due to lack of use & lack of the PM given to propulsion diesels.
All my generator issues resolved when I started using it daily.

 

[jgwinks]

I might have added we don't routinely see marine fuel docks with available propane... so refilling means a trip, somehow. I might just about be able to carry a 20-lb propane tank on my folding bike. Maybe. And that assumes a supplier within bicycle distance (which gets shorter as I get older).

-Chris

That's why on my last three boats I built the propane lockers to fit the standard 20# patio grill tanks. When at home I take them to a refill place but when cruising I exchange them. A refill place might be miles away but often there's a gas station with exchange service across the street from the marina. It's a little more expensive that way but very convenient. If you end up taking a taxi to the refill place the exchange is cheaper. Yes the tanks rust but if you exchange them regularly they're not on the boat long enough to be a problem. They get inspected and repainted if necessary at each refill. Also the expensive "marine" aluminum tanks must be recertified at 12 years like any other and that can be difficult to arrange. The exchange places don't even look at the dates, they just give you a new one. They recycle the outdated and damaged ones.

 

[ranger58sb]

FWIW, I wasn't making a distinction between refilling and exchanging. I've not noticed either near marina's we've visited. Don't remember too many nearby highway gas stations nearby, either; I can only think of two, just now.

-Chris

 

[Derik]

As Koliver says your boat is probably already set up for Propane as was my 1985 Marine Trader. Propane is 1. Easier on the Environment. 2. More efficient. 3. Much easier to cook with. This is assuming you would be buying batteries and upgrading your electrical. I have had induction it's ok but nothing like cooking with natural gas or propane.

 

[rslifkin]

I have had induction it's ok but nothing like cooking with natural gas or propane.

It's tough to beat a really good gas stove (although a good induction stove gets very close). But unfortunately, most gas stoves aren't good and don't have smooth, linear flame control, etc. Plus, on a boat, the advantage of dumping less waste heat into the cabin with a non-combustion stove is a huge benefit.