Stuffing box question/can of worms

[koliver]

Mine are the same as in the photo, except I have two nuts on each of the tightening bolts. I also have a water feed.
Capt23: athe 1/4 in af remaining tightening room that you have indicates that your stuffing material, whatever it is,m is compressed almost as much as possible. You can back off the nuts, work the fitting back and add another ring of material. If you are going to pick out what is there first, you can put three rings of new material in before tightening. Then tighten it up and work your way to a drier bilge.

As for the catastrophic failures, a boat that I know experienced a near sinking early this past summer, after hitting something. The way it was explained to me : on impact, the prop and shaft and engine pulled back on the flex in the engine mounts. This pulled the shaft through the stainless ring, which remained slightly up the shaft when everything else returned to its normal position. Now there is a gap of 1/4 to 1/2 in where ther should have been a seal, and consequently a gusher bigger than total pump capacity.

 

[koliver]

Capt23: the 1/4 in of remaining tightening room that you have indicates that your stuffing material, whatever it is, is compressed almost as much as possible.

what I meant to say

 

[captmorgan23]

There is no dripping when the engine is off and my bilge pumps cycles very little, in fact I was just on it for a few days and I didn't hear it come on at all. I did notice that where the anchor rode comes out of the boat, water leaks into the bilge there. As far as the stuffing box, do you remove the 2 bolts and pull that piece back and then the stuffing goes in the piece that is away from the motor? It seems to run pretty dry so do I need to mess with it or not?

Also how dry should my bilge be? No water at all.....or some water.....I have a shop vac and was going to jump in and suck out that nastiness.


MP

 

[FF]

Also how dry should my bilge be?

Basically dry when not moving , but flax stuffing MUST be warer cooled , so there will be driups.

We take a different approach and have the bilge pump set higher than dry bilge.

This is because with a dry stack and keel cooling we were reluctant to install a second hyd keel cooler for the steering and windlass.

So the hoses to the bow windlass simply hang in some bilge water , all the cooling that is required for such a simple system.


FF

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Marin wrote:
So why the apparent large differences in the running temperatures of packing glands of the same basic type?

*

Ummm, dunno.* Some possibilities - clamped down a bit too tight or loose, slightly misaligned shaft, inaccurate calibration of the IR gun (I'm not sticking my fingers into that area while moving!), different transference of heat from the tranny to the shaft, ambient water temps, shaft RPM, ambient engine room temp, different materials, differences in the water intake capacity at the cutlass bearing, differences in prop shaft to prop shaft tube* clearance ....... sheesh, the list is nearly endless!

But now that I think about it ... if water doesn't drip out of the packing gland, is the same water sitting in the tube at all times?* Doesn't it eventually heat up?* Is the water in the prop shaft tube moving in both directions (in and out)?

Hmmm.* Like I said ... dunno.* But it seems to work just fine!

*

*

*


-- Edited by BaltimoreLurker on Monday 19th of October 2009 01:46:31 PM

-- Edited by BaltimoreLurker on Monday 19th of October 2009 01:58:18 PM

 

[koliver]

Capt: As far as the stuffing box, do you remove the 2 bolts and pull that piece back and then the stuffing goes in the piece that is away from the motor? It seems to run pretty dry so do I need to mess with it or not?

Thats the general idea. when you pull that piece towards the engine, you can pick out the existing stuffing if you have a strong pick and lots of patience. Or you can just layer in another round and tighten it up again. If you get a drip every 10 to 30 seconds at rest you should be ok for lube, as you will get more than that when it is turning. If that is its present rate, don't mess with it. "If it aint broke,..."

 

[captmorgan23]

There is nothing dripping at rest. I think the little water that is in my bilge is water that comes in to the boat via the windlass hole (where the rode feeds out) and possibly the little that may come in at the back deck where my quadrant access door is, other than that this boat seems very dry. Like I said when I am aboard the bilge pump may come on once maaaaaaybe twice in a 24 hour period if it is raining heavily...and that may be exaggerating.

I may put another layer in just for good measure.....but my instincts tell me to not mess with it 'til there is an issue. My plans are to pull this boat out of the water in the spring, so I am doing what I can now while it is in the water, and am making a to-do list for when I get it on the hard.

MP

 

[Baker]

I'm kinda thinking.....

Carbon fiber=organic

Ceramic=inorganice

Makes them very dissimilar!

 

[RickB]

Baker wrote:

I'm kinda thinking.....

Carbon fiber=organic

Ceramic=inorganice

Makes them very dissimilar!

*

Periodic table: C = carbon* Carbon is element. Carbon is inorganic.

Organic compounds include carbon but that doesn't make carbon organic. There are many inorganic carbon compounds; carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanides, carbide ... the list goes on.* Diamonds are not organic and they are pure carbon.

"Makes them very dissimilar!"* =*Not
*


-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 24th of October 2009 08:16:45 PM

 

[Baker]

Guess I forgot the hydrogen part of that equation.....

 

[Keith]

Wrong, RickBee. From Wikipedia:


Organic chemistry is a discipline within chemistry which involves the scientific study of the structure, properties, composition, reactions, and preparation (by synthesis or by other means) of chemical compounds that contain carbon. These compounds may contain any number of other elements, including hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, the halogens as well as phosphorus, silicon and sulfur.<sup class="reference">[1]</sup><sup class="reference">[2]</sup><sup class="reference">[3]</sup>

Because of their unique properties, multi-carbon compounds exhibit extremely large variety and the range of application of organic compounds is enormous. They form the basis of, or are important constituents of many products (paints, plastics, food, explosives, drugs, petrochemicals, to name but a few) and (apart from a very few exceptions) they form the basis of all earthly life processes.

 

[RickB]

I don't suppose the term "organic compound" lit any bulbs did it? Not to mention that definition of organic was written a few hundred years ago. Keep looking, keep reading, you will find as many definitions as you care to use.

That doesn't make carbon organic and it doesn't mean it cannot be part of a ceramic composition.

 

[C lectric]

Captain Morgan23,

At the risk of confusing the issue, if you keep on* with the stuffing box you have and repack it (it's a good unit) there will always be a fine mist of spray thrown around the whole area.* Perfectly normal even on well adjusted boxes.

I covered mine with a hacked up piece of an old fender lightly clamped in place over the top of the box with the bottom side left open.* That way any spray is caught by the fender piece and drops into the bilge instead of covering the coupling and back of the marine gear and anything else nearby.*** Can be very quickly removed for adjustment and you can still check the drip rate easily without touching the fender.

By the way, get some extra S.bronze nuts and use them for locking the adjustment nuts.

-- Edited by C lectric on Sunday 25th of October 2009 10:14:16 PM

 

[Keith]

Saying carbon is inorganic is just plain stupid. And wrong of course.

 

[RickB]

Keith wrote:

Saying carbon is inorganic is just plain stupid. And wrong of course.

*Well, I guess if you don't know the difference between an element and a compound then a lot of things must seem "just plain stupid."

 

[Keith]

"There are many inorganic carbon compounds; carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanides, carbide ... the list goes on."
______________________________________

Those are all organic, since they contain carbon.

 

[RickB]

"Those are all organic, since they contain carbon. "


And some people believe the Earth is flat.

I am not going to waste my time arguing with a scientific illiterate but it is disappointing to see such an example in this day and age.

 

[Keith]

Gee, RickBee, with a degree in chemistry I wouldn't exactly call myself a "scientific illiterate", but of course you would.

You have obviously never maken a single mistake in your entire life, in your own mind.

You also have NEVER told a lie, have you? You're perfect.

 

[captmorgan23]

I have noticed that threads really tend to go off on crazy tangents on this forum.........and also tend to get a little hostile......you guys need to play nice with each other.....I mean thats why we own trawlers ...right...so we can go slow, take a deep breath, and relax a little bit.

MP

 

[Marin]

captmorgan23 wrote:

I have noticed that threads really tend to go off on crazy tangents on this forum.........and also tend to get a little hostile......

It's human nature on parade.* The only way to prevent it is to actively moderate the forum, which is what they do on the T&T list.* A lot of people resent the T&T moderators but I can understand why they are as strict as they are.* With a large group of participants you get all sorts of personalities, and discussions will soon wander off-topic and maybe*get personal.* I've seen threads on T&T start with a query about customs requirements for entering Canada and end up in a heated argument over gun rights until a moderator put a stop to it.* Most of the people on T&T seem to like the way that forum is run.* It's an e-mail based list which means you get every post whether you want to or not.* Many people object when it bogs their system down with tons of off-topic entries.* So there is a practical motivation to keeping the T&T*list on-topic.

A web-based forum doesn't have the volume issue for people.* John and Doug have decided to let this forum be self-governing and have provided a bucket--- Off the Deep End--- for off-topic discussions and personal differences.* Outside of that, it's pretty much anything goes although I assume the administrators could block a person from posting if they wanted to.

 

[Marc1]

RickB wrote: Keith wrote: Saying carbon is inorganic is just plain stupid. And wrong of course.

Well, I guess if you don't know the difference between an element and a compound then a lot of things must seem "just plain stupid."
Jeez, you guys know how to have fun right? Why did no one call me?

Carbon is inorganic? Carbon is Organic? What about Oxigen? Is Oxigen organic? What about O2 does it make it more organic? I think that Hydrogen is organic...when combined with Carbon in CH4....Peuuuu.....who was it?


Ha ha, guys you crack me up, come on stay on the subject of packing> I think it was me who said to avoid "ceramic" packings, and was probably wrong for repeating someone else's words. I meant to say drippless crapparola system who can rip apart and sink your boat.
I use to own a very old Chris Craft boat built if I am not wrong in the 30ties who had a stuffing box that looked just like the one in the picture a few pages back but did not have the hose and clamps. The stuffing mechanism was attached directly to the brass pipe, no hose of any nature. Also the engine was not on flexible mounts but on steel mounts bolted down and there was no flexible coupling either.
Despite all of that I had no problems. For stuffing I used Hessian fibre mixed with a bit of grease and twisted it around in a cord of sorts. Never thought that to be critical anyway since even if I took all the stuffing off to clean it out I would get only a moderate water intake since the pipe was lined with a large white metal bush and the gap was the thickness of a newspaper page. We made that bush ourselves with old crankshaft bushes from the wreckers. We wrapped the shaft in newspaper and pored the molted metal in the hole. The paper would burn but would still produce an acceptable gap.

My boat did not even have a bilge pump. I did have a square tin cut diagonally that I used to get water out once a month or so. Good ol' days eh?




-- Edited by Marc1 on Tuesday 27th of October 2009 10:57:15 PM

 

[Baker]

Marin wrote:

*

A web-based forum doesn't have the volume issue for people.* John and Doug have decided to let this forum be self-governing and have provided a bucket--- Off the Deep End--- for off-topic discussions and personal differences.* Outside of that, it's pretty much anything goes although I assume the administrators could block a person from posting if they wanted to.
*



I guess I have confidence in the goodness of people. *I am hoping y'all catch yourselves before it gets ugly. *And, Yes, we can ban someone and have.

 

[sunchaser]

The*best reference point for organic vs inorganic is your grocery store. Go to the fruits and vegetables section, organic costs twice as much. Or place both objects in question near a Florida swamp, after two years the*object unchanged is inorganic. Neither wikpedia nor organic chemistry books from the 50s are accurate to the purist, so why the fuss.

I can tell you that for over 4 decades I have been in an industry that successfully combines organics with inorganics to make elements. However, I'll never claim to be an expert less I get thoroughly skewered by the TF police!*

Lets see now, is anhydrous ammonia plowed into the soil to*make beets grow faster an organic or inorganic? How about the carbon ceramic seals on the shaft used to prevent AA from uselessly leaking into the atmosphere? Oh, and who really cares?

 

[captmorgan23]

I love pop tarts.....my favorite ones are the cinnamon and sugar with the frosting. I am also a huge fan of 50's detective movies.....anybody...anybody.

MP

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

BaltimoreLurker wrote:
FF wrote:
This is mostly correct UNTIL the more modern Gore and other materials were marketed.

Now your 1905 antique stuffing box can be packed with modern material that runs with a dry bilge , even underway , lower shaft temperature than even tefflon, and far less chance of a scored shaft from flaking being captured by the antique packing.

FWIW, I used the Gore packing material this season, and it certainly seems to work as advertised and as FF describes.* Once I got everything adjusted correctly I had no drips and, according to the IR gun, the shaft and packing gland never goes above 105 degrees. Which is probably little above ambient temp in the engine room on the Chesapeake in the summer when the air temps are in the 90s and the water temps in the mid/upper 70s.

I don't know that we've quite beat this one to death yet.* But, I finally got "Moon Dance" out for the Spring shakedown run yesterday and checked the stuffing box & shaft temps again.* 81 degrees.* Which, in the cold spring water sounds about right to me.* Just a few degrees above ambient. Certainly acceptable anyhow.

No drips from the stuffing box.* Plenty of leaks elsewhere, all from the decks and above, but none from the stuffing box.* Maybe I can Gore pack my leaky decks, fittings and windows.*

*

 

[Bendit]

We have a PSS system in Pioneer (came with the boat) and it has been trouble free for 6 years - BUT I'd rather have a conventional stuffing box!