Starlink

[SteveK]

It seems that before the masses sign on to Starlink, they are already expecting to be unable to meet the demand. Anyone know what basic plan means in terms of speed on the net, down and up. Sure hope it is not like a dial up phone.
This coupled with existing RV being restricted during travel.
The only appeal left is internet off the grid of cell service.

 

[bowball]

I currently have the motorized starlink mounted to an 8ft piece of pvc on the upper deck rail. The line is ziptied around the rails and enters through the flybridge helm.

The pepwave transit 5g router is mounted in the centerline cabinet above the microwave.

Still trying to figure out a spot for the flat high performance antenna. My pilot house roof is already filled with solar panels so that is out.

Might look at options for above the bimini on the flybridge.

What do you perceive as the advantage between the two dishes? The flat one costs more and uses twice the electricity. It doesn’t seem to affect speed at all either.

 

[Simi 60]

1tb of data is a crazy big chunk of data

I consider myself a heavy, but responsible user and very rarely would I use 1/10th of that in a month.

 

[bowball]

1tb of data is a crazy big chunk of data

I consider myself a heavy, but responsible user and very rarely would I use 1/10th of that in a month.

Try having several teenage kids that are constantly streaming YouTube or video games and the family tv’s are high Def using streaming.

 

[socalrider]

Try having several teenage kids that are constantly streaming YouTube or video games and the family tv’s are high Def using streaming.

Yeah we're easily over that. We have no cable so everything is streamed. UHD TV can use 7GB/hr so it can go fast. We don't watch much TV by US standards either (though grandma downstairs probably does, and she uses our account). Just streaming football over the weekend could burn up 300-400GB/mo.

 

[Simi 60]

But your eyes likely can't see the difference between UHD and 720p unless you have a huge high end screen and sit really close.

We have a 42 inch 1080p screen on the boat and download as low as 360p and picture quality is fine
Also most stuff broadcast or available wasn't even made in UHD

 

[Simi 60]

. Just streaming football over the weekend could burn up 300-400GB/mo.

Insane
All 150 episodes, 62.5 hours of Hogan's Heroes is only 9GB

 

[psneeld]

It seems that before the masses sign on to Starlink, they are already expecting to be unable to meet the demand. Anyone know what basic plan means in terms of speed on the net, down and up. Sure hope it is not like a dial up phone.
This coupled with existing RV being restricted during travel.
The only appeal left is internet off the grid of cell service.

Some reasons are they probably oversold to residential in areas that are densely populated and that wasn't the initial concept, had high/full priority as residential, and a lot of people that were not really eligible for it were ordering and having it shipped elsewhere to even get it, then you had the people using it mobile before authorized, the war in Ukraine is affecting the program, delays in launching and the delay to wait for the bigger satellites that better support the mobile reception may have affected growth...there are probably more but I just bought and don't closely follow it's progress.

The new rules shouldn't affect the RV and other service that never expected great speeds in high traffic areas.

 

[bowball]

The problem with starlink is Elon’s tendency to just change the plans and expectations, and then merely modifying the terms of use after we have invested in the hardware.

To me, it is raising the question of being able to depend on it.

Last summer I was down to 5mbs for extended time periods. This means that for content streaming it won’t work. So do you provision other data sources?

 

[tpbrady]

Elon is running into the same thing that anyone that delivers broadband using a radio based network, you can only deliver a finite number of GBs and you have to recover the cost of delivering those GBs. His cost of delivering a GB is much higher than for a fiber network provider in Houston. By imposing a fair use policy with a 1TB cap, he is being sure he can deliver the average number of GBs typically used by a US household (500-600 GB in 2021), while trying to sign up as many accounts as possible.

Having been involved with the internet industry directly and indirectly for 28 years, I have never understood the concept of unlimited data. In large metropolitan areas the cost of a GB is so small that unlimited data is manageable as long as consumption is understood. In the hinterlands, the cost of GB is a significant expense so the further out you get GBs are “rationed” by slow speeds or data caps. The government is subsidizing the buildout of fiber networks to the hinterlands that changes the slow speed models but hides the cost of delivering a GB with government $$.

Elon’s biggest competitor in rural areas is government money. He has a window of opportunity around the world, but that window is closing.

Tom

 

[socalrider]

But your eyes likely can't see the difference between UHD and 720p unless you have a huge high end screen and sit really close.

We have a 42 inch 1080p screen on the boat and download as low as 360p and picture quality is fine
Also most stuff broadcast or available wasn't even made in UHD

Yeah I know - my point isn't that it's impossible to get by on less than 1TB/mo, it's that doing so may require active management. If the marginal cost of bandwidth is zero, as it is for my home AT&T fiber optic, there's no need to think about any of this & usage skyrockets.

With six users and a dozen devices (iPads, laptops, various streaming devices for TV) that are constantly updating software & resetting defaults, making sure that someone's not unintentionally downloading or streaming something at 7GB/hr is decidedly non-trivial.

I ran into trouble this summer with my cellular-based wifi because my laptop was archiving e-mails (or something), burning through 10GB/day for a few days before I realized it. I still haven't really figured out what was going on or how to stop it from happening again - I managed by shutting off my laptop wifi when not actively using it.

Point being, our tech infrastructure is being built around the assumption of unlimited costless data, which makes managing it increasingly difficult. Certainly not impossible, but a pretty big pain in the butt in my experience. Zoom calls really rip through data as well at ~2GB/hr. That's probably 100GB/mo for me right there.

 

[Simi 60]

Last summer I was down to 5mbs for extended time periods. This means that for content streaming it won’t work. So do you provision other data sources?

Try turning your quality down

For 6 years out here we have used mobile data and often we would get less than 2 Mbps yet we still managed to stream shows at lower quality, yet still very watchable and a bit off buffering

Treat data/bandwidth like a finite resource, like fuel, food and water
Leave some for others to enjoy

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Insane
All 150 episodes, 62.5 hours of Hogan's Heroes is only 9GB

You forgot The Andy Griffith show

 

[Simi 60]

Yeah I know - my point isn't that it's impossible to get by on less than 1TB/mo, it's that doing so may require active management.

So do it
It's not hard
Takes all but a second or two to change settings

Point being, our tech infrastructure is being built around the assumption of unlimited costless data, which makes managing it increasingly difficult. Certainly not impossible, but a pretty big pain in the butt in my experience.

Your assumption
I have always treated everything as a finite resource, not to be wasted.
If we all did the same.......

 

[psneeld]

The problem with starlink is Elon’s tendency to just change the plans and expectations, and then merely modifying the terms of use after we have invested in the hardware.

To me, it is raising the question of being able to depend on it.

Last summer I was down to 5mbs for extended time periods. This means that for content streaming it won’t work. So do you provision other data sources?

Fall back to phones which is all we had (and often didn't have them) before Starlink... even had slightly intermittent Starlink in a campground full of tall pines with pretty spotty open sky coverage so much better than nothing.

 

[danderer]

The problem with starlink is Elon’s tendency to just change the plans and expectations, and then merely modifying the terms of use after we have invested in the hardware.

Bingo. Still currently the best option in many cases. Some real competition would be nice.

 

[dannc]

Yesterday, I received this email notice from Starlink... I am a residential customer with portability. I use the system on my boat at the dock and while anchored.

....

We received the note as well.

With me working from home, the wife doing so part of the week, along with streaming, by the end of the billing period it looks like we will hit 400GB.

Before Starlink, we were running a cell based internet and had two DSL 1.5mbps lines. The kids used the slow DSL to minimize data uses on the cell network even though it was unlimited data. We averaged 120-150GB per month on the cell which tell me the kids were burning up a bunch of data.

Even with our data usage getting to 1TB is would be difficult. The holidays will be interesting from a data usage perspective. More people at home and more streaming. Work stuff uses some data but not that much unless I have to download code which can be quite a bit of data.

Flip side is the 1TB limit is only if there is too much traffic in your cell. We have the only Starlink setup in our area from what we can see. Most of the houses are surrounded by trees and will not have a view to get Starlink connectivity. The houses that might have the required view, have decent DSL so why use Starlink?

I just saw where our tax dollars were being used to provide service in a rural area down east. It worked out to $88,000 per connection. StarLink would be perfect for that application even if they had to cut down some trees.

Later,
Dan

 

[SteveK]

..................

Last summer I was down to 5mbs for extended time periods. This means that for content streaming it won’t work. So do you provision other data sources?

Curious, did you reboot everything, were you on WIFI 2.4, 5.0 or ethernet. Just looking at the conditions you were at when this occurred.

 

[slowgoesit]

Starlink throttling data over 1 TB/mo

I received the same e-mail that was posted above. I have no problem throttling data for mega users. We spend a LOT of time on the internet, but last time I checked we were using less than 30 GB of data/month. So still 970 GB available/ month. Heck, I have no problem if they offered a less expensive monthly fee (say $50/mo) with a data cap at ONLY 100 GB/mo, then pay for anything over that. Then the 1 TB and greater users can pay higher prices! Works for us!
Starlink is a private company. If you don't like their product/pricing, don't buy it! Go find something you like better, or better yet, start your own competing company and develop a similar product, that works just as well, and charge less! Seems pretty simple.
The way some people talk, you'd think "unlimited data" is a "right" they are entitled to! Now I'm getting off of my soap box . . .

 

[dannc]

Try turning your quality down

For 6 years out here we have used mobile data and often we would get less than 2 Mbps yet we still managed to stream shows at lower quality, yet still very watchable and a bit off buffering

Treat data/bandwidth like a finite resource, like fuel, food and water
Leave some for others to enjoy

Yep, for close to 15 years the fastest Internet we had available was 1.5 mbps DSL and it was not reliable for many of those years. Course, I used 110 baud modems once upon a time too so it is all relative.

Then we got a cell network that was unlimited but we still used the DSL for the kids. The cell network ended up not working just after we got Starlink! Starlink got here just in time. We went to a different cell provider for data, and it costs us $20 a month and is very data limited but we want it as a backup in case something happens to Starlink. We got rid of the DSL, which saved a bunch of money and easily pays for the $20 backup cell service.

One thing I noticed when streaming with 1.5 mpbs, yes one has to lower the quality, but the new streaming devices have quite a bit more memory so they can cache the stream. Over the years, as the streaming devices got more memory, we would get less and less buffering pauses. The reality is that today we very seldom get buffering pauses from streaming but the over the air shows have constant problems with video quality and pauses.

Later,
Dan

 

[socalrider]

Yep, for close to 15 years the fastest Internet we had available was 1.5 mbps DSL and it was not reliable for many of those years. Course, I used 110 baud modems once upon a time too so it is all relative.

Then we got a cell network that was unlimited but we still used the DSL for the kids. The cell network ended up not working just after we got Starlink! Starlink got here just in time. We went to a different cell provider for data, and it costs us $20 a month and is very data limited but we want it as a backup in case something happens to Starlink. We got rid of the DSL, which saved a bunch of money and easily pays for the $20 backup cell service.

One thing I noticed when streaming with 1.5 mpbs, yes one has to lower the quality, but the new streaming devices have quite a bit more memory so they can cache the stream. Over the years, as the streaming devices got more memory, we would get less and less buffering pauses. The reality is that today we very seldom get buffering pauses from streaming but the over the air shows have constant problems with video quality and pauses.

Later,
Dan

The biggest challenge now for me remote working on the boat is synchronous video - zoom/teams calls. Starlink with cellular failover seems like the best solution for that, which is what I plan to do for next summer.

 

[dannc]

The biggest challenge now for me remote working on the boat is synchronous video - zoom/teams calls. Starlink with cellular failover seems like the best solution for that, which is what I plan to do for next summer.

We have had no problems with Zoom/WebEx meetings using Starlink or the cell based service we used prior to Starlink. We have not had to use our cell based backup internet and hope it stays that way.

Later,
Dan

 

[FWT]

"Point being, our tech infrastructure is being built around the assumption of unlimited costless data, which makes managing it increasingly difficult."

Yep, but not just that. The real assumption is constant connection.

 

[bowball]

Curious, did you reboot everything, were you on WIFI 2.4, 5.0 or ethernet. Just looking at the conditions you were at when this occurred.

Power cycled. Using the Peplink router and access points but I think at one point their router too.

 

[bowball]

I received the same e-mail that was posted above. I have no problem throttling data for mega users. We spend a LOT of time on the internet, but last time I checked we were using less than 30 GB of data/month. So still 970 GB available/ month. Heck, I have no problem if they offered a less expensive monthly fee (say $50/mo) with a data cap at ONLY 100 GB/mo, then pay for anything over that. Then the 1 TB and greater users can pay higher prices! Works for us!
Starlink is a private company. If you don't like their product/pricing, don't buy it! Go find something you like better, or better yet, start your own competing company and develop a similar product, that works just as well, and charge less! Seems pretty simple.
The way some people talk, you'd think "unlimited data" is a "right" they are entitled to! Now I'm getting off of my soap box . . .

My point was that they keep changing their terms and services AFTER purchase which makes it hard to plan around.

 

[HTurner]

New terms of service explained. Data caps explained... good new for those with the RV or Portability plans...

 

[Sababa]

Data caps for residential customers are good news for boaters on the RV plan. They only time I’ve ever had problems with Starlink is during peak streaming hours in areas with lots of vacation homes during the high season, namely South Puget Sound and San Juan Islands during summer. Those are the people who are likely to have issues with the caps, and every residential priority customer who gets kicked over to best efforts leaves more bandwidth for the rest of us. As for Zoom etc. during the business day, it’s just not an issue. There is plenty of capacity during those hours.

 

[tiltrider1]

Almost no one will have issues with the cap. You would need 3 tv’s steaming 4K most of the day to get in trouble with the data cap.

The other Big data consumption is remotely controlling an office computer.

So, a few people will get throttled down at the end of the month.

The other good news is that Jeff Bezos is investing heavily in a competing system. Competition is the best form of price control.

The only real bad news. Starlink can and will change the deal on you whenever they like. The cell companies always grandfathered your deal, not so with starlink.

 

[Spinner]

Unpausing Starlink service from the dish.

I ran across this today. Evidently, even with your service paused, you can still unpause the service even if you have no other connection.

Here is the article I came across. Of course, I can’t vouch for accuracy ;-)

https://www.starlinkhardware.com/you-can-now-activate-starlink-rv-directly-from-the-dish/

 

[Lepke]

Pentagon Testing Starlink at Remote Artic Bases

Apparently Starlink works in the far north.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...roubles?sref=IYQ5mP1s&leadSource=uverify wall