Starlink

[Helmsman]

Probably only thing to do is to wait and see. It would seem they would roll a firmware out over time to ensure no issues.

 

[SailorGreg]

Probably only thing to do is to wait and see. It would seem they would roll a firmware out over time to ensure no issues.

Anecdotal, but here is my report: this weekend we ran from Newport to Norfolk. Calm winds and seas. Starlink worked fine the entire trip, even 50 miles offshore. Was surprised to see data rates lower than at the dock in Newport. Latest generation Starlink. RV version. Since our orientation changed little for the entire trip, possible that the active electronic steering of the phased array was somewhat less effective due to the movement. 50 mbps vs 2-3 times that in Newport.
Now at anchor in Mobjack bay and swinging very slowly. Starlink still working fine, based on the two of us being online and speed tests. Agin, speeds lower than while at the dock in Newport. About half the speed. We are in a somewhat rural area so maybe more systems online.
Some weather coming so our swing rate will increase ( hopefully not too excessive) and I will see what happens and report back.

 

[Scottwb96]

From one of the admins on one of the SL forums I belong to... Seems to be a speed triggered, NOT an actual movement trigger. Which would make sense, since the device already had something built in that would put it in stow mode at about 15mph... Also hearing more and more about the next gen units coming out, actually being "FCC motion compliant"... Gotta wait and see, supposed to be Q4 for the release.

"Little bit of testing this morning. It is triggered by your speed exceeding 10 mph (16 kph) and is not distance related. Comes online again as soon as your speed reduces below 10 mph."

 

[SailorGreg]

From one of the admins on one of the SL forums I belong to... Seems to be a speed triggered, NOT an actual movement trigger. Which would make sense, since the device already had something built in that would put it in stow mode at about 15mph... Also hearing more and more about the next gen units coming out, actually being "FCC motion compliant"... Gotta wait and see, supposed to be Q4 for the release.

"Little bit of testing this morning. It is triggered by your speed exceeding 10 mph (16 kph) and is not distance related. Comes online again as soon as your speed reduces below 10 mph."

Interesting…. I max out at 8 knots so apparently didn’t trigger anything and never lost link. Yes, I will report back in a couple of days.

 

[Helmsman]

Anecdotal, but here is my report: this weekend we ran from Newport to Norfolk. Calm winds and seas. Starlink worked fine the entire trip, even 50 miles offshore. Was surprised to see data rates lower than at the dock in Newport. Latest generation Starlink. RV version. Since our orientation changed little for the entire trip, possible that the active electronic steering of the phased array was somewhat less effective due to the movement. 50 mbps vs 2-3 times that in Newport.
Now at anchor in Mobjack bay and swinging very slowly. Starlink still working fine, based on the two of us being online and speed tests. Agin, speeds lower than while at the dock in Newport. About half the speed. We are in a somewhat rural area so maybe more systems online.
Some weather coming so our swing rate will increase ( hopefully not too excessive) and I will see what happens and report back.

Thanks! Will be good to hear the feedback

 

[socalrider]

Interesting…. I max out at 8 knots so apparently didn’t trigger anything and never lost link. Yes, I will report back in a couple of days.

Hey, is Elon saying our trawlers are slow? I take offense at that.

6-8 knots is still "in motion"! Insulting!

 

[HTurner]

 

[slowgoesit]

Hey, is Elon saying our trawlers are slow? I take offense at that.

6-8 knots is still "in motion"! Insulting!

I'll take all they insults they want to hand out regarding calling our boat slow as long as I can use it at 7.5kts!
Assuming I was actually using it in motion that is . . . . which I'm not . . . . because the user agreement states that it is not to be used in motion . . . .

 

[Simi 60]

But it's been approved to use in motion
They have tested it in jet planes
They are putting it on cruise ships

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

More:

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...ernet-use-with-ships-boats-planes-2022-06-30/

 

[HTurner]

More:

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...ernet-use-with-ships-boats-planes-2022-06-30/

Yes, then the Starlink Maritime version was offered. The article is a few months old.

 

[Helmsman]

I wonder if the deal is that the satellite won’t adjust quickly enough when moving faster than 10 mph when the boat turns. Therefore the satellite has the potential to interfere with other providers by uploading data on that wavelength in “their part of the sky”, which was the gist of the Dish network complaint.

I would imagine the more expensive maritime version has a much quicker reaction time with its motors, or some type of handoff between the two dishes that the system uses.

 

[SteveK]

Helmsman, you are assuming that more than one satellite is needed to cover your A to B travel. For sure cross country, maybe every 100 miles.
Think of satellite TV.

 

[SailorGreg]

Starlink, one person's experience

Thanks! Will be good to hear the feedback

Swinging a bit at anchor in Mobjack bay overnight, gusty winds in the 20's. Never lost signal. (the Netflix test).
This am, winds are down and swing is minimal, maybe 20 degree arc. Signal strength good but variable. One test will be 50 mbps, a few minutes later will be 130. Too early to have much competition from land-based users. Antenna is not physically moving so the electronic steering may be playing into the variable data rates. Data rates at the dock were consistently high so I am assuming the variable data rates are not due to the mix in the constellation.
For those interested, my devices (laptop, phones, etc) are connected over the air to the Starlink router. Meanwhile, I have the Starlink adapter connected via Cat6 to the boat's switch. The appleTV is hard wired to the Starlink via the switch.
I also have wifii access points throughout the boat connected to Starlink via that same switch. No boat 3rd party router. The WAP assigns a unique URL so I can connect to either the Starlink router or the boat's LAN. The LAN bandwidth is about 2/3 the data rate of the Starlink throughout the boat.

 

[KnotYet]

Helmsman, you are assuming that more than one satellite is needed to cover your A to B travel. For sure cross country, maybe every 100 miles.
Think of satellite TV.

I thought Starlink uses low earth orbit satellites which complete an orbit
every 90 minutes or so. That's why there are so many and many more to
come, right?
As a result they would be continuously 'handing off' the connection.
Satellite TV uses geostationary satellites, i.e, one orbit in 24 hours.

 

[MYTraveler]

I thought Starlink uses low earth orbit satellites which complete an orbit
every 90 minutes or so. That's why there are so many and many more to
come, right?
As a result they would be continuously 'handing off' the connection.
Satellite TV uses geostationary satellites.

That is my understanding. There are readily available apps that show all Starlink satellites in view in real time. I haven't looked in a while, but as I recall, there are always at least 4 in view at my 46N latitude, and sometimes 6 or 7. I don't know how to tell which my system is using at any time, but based on the movement of the satellites, I suspect that a hand off occurs much more frequently than every 90 minutes, perhaps every 6 minutes. And perhaps even more frequently than that if the Starlink system hand me off between available sats based on the relative loads of each.

 

[KnotYet]

That is my understanding. There are readily available apps that show all Starlink satellites in view in real time. I haven't looked in a while, but as I recall, there are always at least 4 in view at my 46N latitude, and sometimes 6 or 7. I don't know how to tell which my system is using at any time, but based on the movement of the satellites, I suspect that a hand off occurs much more frequently than every 90 minutes, perhaps every 6 minutes. And perhaps even more frequently than that if the Starlink system hand me off between available sats based on the relative loads of each.

90 minutes is the time for one complete orbit of a given Starlink satellite.

 

[Helmsman]

Helmsman, you are assuming that more than one satellite is needed to cover your A to B travel. For sure cross country, maybe every 100 miles.
Think of satellite TV.

Hey Steve. Thanks for the comments. However, that is not what I am saying.

The issue has nothing to do with the location of the thousands of Starlink satellites. The conflict, the way I understand it, between other satellite providers and Starlink is that they all use the same frequencies to provide service. Each is allocated certain locations within the “sky”. It is a legal imperative that they don’t interfere with each other’s transmissions. That was the basis of the FCC concern that other satellite providers raised a few months ago.

My theory about the possible speed limitation is that this may be Starlink’s answer to the issue where dishes in motion can be sending info to a Starlink satellite, and the RV or boat turns into the location in the southwest or southern sky where Dish’s geostationary satellite is, and inadvertently transmit to the Dish satellite disrupting their transmissions. By slowing the allowed speed of the RV or boat to 10 mph, perhaps the motors can adjust quickly enough at that speed to keep the interference down while keeping connectivity with Starlink satellites. Or, it may be that the information flow can be temporarily stopped by the Starlink quickly enough at the slower speed to avoid interference.

It is a theory only, but in lieu of more information, seems logical to me. Hope this makes sense.

 

[SteveK]

I thought Starlink uses low earth orbit satellites which complete an orbit
every 90 minutes or so. That's why there are so many and many more to
come, right?
As a result they would be continuously 'handing off' the connection.
Satellite TV uses geostationary satellites.

you are correct about the handoff, but still one sat. My comparison was meant to show one sat can cover a large area.
Starlink has divided up the earth into sections (squares/rectangles) of coverage. There are many of these squares that do not have service at all on purpose for now, low or zero population.
Starlink has a support button on webpage and it goes on forever with answers to questions. No human interface.

Still waiting for an official confirmation that in motion is turned off. So far this info is floating on social media but not on their webpage.

 

[SteveK]

Just had a look on Starlink webpage and interestingly the maritime version shows pictures of dish flat as a table position.

 

[KnotYet]

you are correct about the handoff, but still one sat. My comparison was meant to show one sat can cover a large area.
Starlink has divided up the earth into sections (squares/rectangles) of coverage. There are many of these squares that do not have service at all on purpose for now, low or zero population.
Starlink has a support button on webpage and it goes on forever with answers to questions. No human interface.

Still waiting for an official confirmation that in motion is turned off. So far this info is floating on social media but not on their webpage.

Depending on the user's location, 'one sat' may carry the connection for
only minutes or even seconds at a time. These are line-of-sight links with
objects that are traveling about 18,000 mph.

 

[rslifkin]

Just had a look on Starlink webpage and interestingly the maritime version shows pictures of dish flat as a table position.

The maritime version dishes don't move. Currently they're using a pair of the non-moving "high performance" dishes. But those are much bigger (and therefore have different beam shaping abilities) than the residential / RV dishes.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Starlink in Motion

Received this from Starlink:

In-motion Starlink is here! No more stopping to connect—stream movies, play games and make video calls all while moving towards your next adventure.

The Flat High Performance Starlink is now available for in-motion use with the Starlink RV service plan. Orders can be placed immediately at www.starlink.com/rv. With a wide field of view and enhanced GPS capabilities, it can connect to more satellites, allowing for consistent connectivity while on the go. The hardware is designed for a permanent installation and is more resilient to extreme environments.

The new offering is also available through Winegard and can be installed at select RV dealerships nationwide.

Using Starlink while in-motion is only approved for designated kits and countries. To learn more, please read our FAQ page or updated Terms of Service.

The Starlink team

 

[Sababa]

Just placed my order!

 

[Larry M]

In-motion

Pros:
Mounts nearly flat, only 1.6" high.
Winegard may offer QD connectors, mounts, and other accessories.
Same monthly price as current portable/roaming option ($135/mo, still 'pausable').
Boat support? (note that boats on RV subscriptions on current dishes reportedly still work in motion under 8 knots).
Designed for winds up to 174 mph (vs 50mph standard).
140° field of view, vs 100° for standard dishy.

Cons:
$2500 hardware purchase!
Still deprioritized (vs fixed-address residential service).
Larger at 22.7 x 20.1", but only 1.6" thick (vs 20.2 x 11.9" plus tilt for current standard dishy)
Higher power draw, 110-150 Watts. Still AC-powered only (without hacks).

 

[SteveK]

Larry, the cost of the RV is not $2500, what am I missing?
The Can$ cost is $759

 

[SeaDogAK]

It says $2500 US for the flat high performance dish, which is the in-motion one.

 

[tpbrady]

Just to clarify how I understand Starlink works, it divides time into 15 second blocks and assigns satellite resources to each terminal for 15 second increments. These are a satellite’s downlink carrier, uplink time slots, and network resources at one or more gateways. From one block to the next none of the resources could change, some of them could change, or all of them could change. The most complex scenario is one a terminal changing satellites and gateways from one block to the next meaning maintaining continuity of internet traffic is a complex task. Unlike your home network everything is moving except probably the web site you are accessing. It’s like the stairs at Hogwarts in Harry Potter.

Tom

 

[ksanders]

I have an American based starlink.

I just ordered a new RV unit from the Mexican Starlink site.

We'll see what I get. I'm going to take my American one and eventually move the address to Mexico, but for now it was easier to just buy a new one in Mexico

 

[Tator]

Do they still sell the $135/mo. service with the $599 antenna?

Tator