Starlink

[markrkrebs]

Looking southward of zenith is a problem because of other satellites (geosynchronous ones) that have spectrum prioirty. I'm at sea now and trying the "just point it straight up" technique & that's what I recommend to you. My latitude: 47N (Seattle)

 

[Helmsman]

New "mobile in motion" terminal coming? Many other questions answered...

Thanks for posting this. I may wait to see how this shakes out. Based upon the video, a new mobile dish may be produced by Starlink.

 

[HTurner]

Thanks for posting this. I may wait to see how this shakes out. Based upon the video, a new mobile dish may be produced by Starlink.

 

[markrkrebs]

i just adapted the original install kit to mount it on my pilothouse.My dish is an early model round disk and its reaction speed is slow so i doubt it would work in a seaway however it seems to have no reaction to the boat rocking fairly well from wakes.
i have also added a voip module so i also have regular phone sevice, it all works better than the hard wired home internet i used to have

The slow speed is the give-away: it's not tracking that way, just getting a favorite field of regard. The underlying phased array can track fast.

 

[markrkrebs]

Starlink working well!

I literally duct-taped it to the inside of my canvas bimini and it worked fine through a moderate seaway (4' rollers on the beam), with just that approximate zenith pointing. I tried a zoom call too: no problems. So I think they're tracking quick enough to handle boat motions. Impressive. I think the mount's not needed, in the seattle area (where there are plenty of satellites overhead) so I'm gonna build somethime more permanent than tape.

 

[sunchaser]

I literally duct-taped it to the inside of my canvas bimini and it worked fine through a moderate seaway (4' rollers on the beam), with just that approximate zenith pointing. I tried a zoom call too: no problems. So I think they're tracking quick enough to handle boat motions. Impressive. I think the mount's not needed, in the seattle area (where there are plenty of satellites overhead) so I'm gonna build somethime more permanent than tape.

What a great idea, attach it under the Bimini. ?

 

[Helmsman]

Anybody have any idea what the RV/Marine mobility version will look like, it any WAGs on cost.

 

[slowgoesit]

Anyone have first hand experience with Starlink North of Petersburg, AK?
We're in Petersburg right now, but have heard someone say it stops working to the North, but not sure HOW FAR North of Petersburg. Specifically interested in Glacier Bay, Jueau, and Sitka.

 

[jgwinks]

Anybody have any idea what the RV/Marine mobility version will look like, it any WAGs on cost.

From what I can tell from their website, it's the same equipment as the residential version, rectangular antenna, appears to be about 18" x 24" x 3". It's the service that's different, allowing you to use it anywhere. $599 equipment, $50 shipping, $135 a month. Plus your local sales tax based on shipping address.

 

[Helmsman]

From what I can tell from their website, it's the same equipment as the residential version, rectangular antenna, appears to be about 18" x 24" x 3". It's the service that's different, allowing you to use it anywhere. $599 equipment, $50 shipping, $135 a month. Plus your local sales tax based on shipping address.

Thank you. I probably wasn’t super clear with my question. The terminology being used is defined this way.

Portability is the square satellite you mentioned. It is also used in a stationary fashion at a home, and you pay $25 less a month for not moving it. The rules for it suggest you can’t use it while moving, or underway. You are supposed to only use it while stopped in different locations.

Mobility is using the satellite while underway. It may end up being different hardware altogether. It would probably come with different, more well built motors, could possibly be a smaller dish, or multiple sizes, and may cost more. It will probably have a standard marine antenna base on it. Any information would probably be rumors and speculation, but may still be helpful for decisions.

The reason for the question was deciding whether to hold off, or go ahead and get the portability version.

 

[Seevee]

Seems like Starlink could be prime time for boats vs other options. Price seems reasonable.
Looking at their future coverage, appears to fill in a lot of the gaps for the inland rivers and other areas.
Is there a way to have an antenna on the boat and use the same subscription at the dirt home, about 60 ft away? Second antenna, or is the subscription tied to a specific antenna?

Does anyone have a phone number for them, or and email? I like to be able to communicate when needed.

 

[koliver]

Seems like Starlink could be prime time for boats vs other options. Price seems reasonable.
Looking at their future coverage, appears to fill in a lot of the gaps for the inland rivers and other areas.
Is there a way to have an antenna on the boat and use the same subscription at the dirt home, about 60 ft away? Second antenna, or is the subscription tied to a specific antenna?

Does anyone have a phone number for them, or and email? I like to be able to communicate when needed.

 

[guy with a boat]

Seems like Starlink could be prime time for boats vs other options. Price seems reasonable.
Looking at their future coverage, appears to fill in a lot of the gaps for the inland rivers and other areas.
Is there a way to have an antenna on the boat and use the same subscription at the dirt home, about 60 ft away? Second antenna, or is the subscription tied to a specific antenna?

Does anyone have a phone number for them, or and email? I like to be able to communicate when needed.

The Portability option is intended to do what you want to do. You can move the dish from from one location to another, and it doesn’t know if its on a boat or a building. I don’t think you will ever see the option to have other than a unique account for each dish.

Starlink (the company) seems to be set up like a lot of tech companies for customer service, which means almost entirely automated and minimal human interaction. Staying efficient in their operations is no doubt one contributor to keeping the cost down to a fraction of what their (dying) competitors charge. Their may be a customer service phone number ore email somewhere, but I haven’t seen it yet.

It would be easy to mount a dish (or just use the supplied tripod) in a way that it can be moved between house and boat.

 

[sunchaser]

Guy
I picked up Starlink just fine from a boat moored two slips away. They were generous enough to provide password. ? Thanks Scot

 

[Sababa]

Starlink (the company) seems to be set up like a lot of tech companies for customer service, which means almost entirely automated and minimal human interaction. Staying efficient in their operations is no doubt one contributor to keeping the cost down to a fraction of what their (dying) competitors charge. Their may be a customer service phone number ore email somewhere, but I haven’t seen it yet.

The only way to contact a human at Starlink as far as I have been able to discover is to submit a question on their support page and then say that the canned result did not answer your question. From there you will get a form that you can use to email support. There is no contact email or phone number anywhere I could find.

 

[Sababa]

Mobility is using the satellite while underway. It may end up being different hardware altogether. It would probably come with different, more well built motors, could possibly be a smaller dish, or multiple sizes, and may cost more. It will probably have a standard marine antenna base on it. Any information would probably be rumors and speculation, but may still be helpful for decisions.

My bet would be on a completely solid state terminal with no pointing motors similar to the Iridium Certus, relying entirely on finer (and more expensive) beam steering by the phased array.

 

[Helmsman]

My bet would be on a completely solid state terminal with no pointing motors similar to the Iridium Certus, relying entirely on finer (and more expensive) beam steering by the phased array.

That would make sense.

 

[tpbrady]

The terminal meant for use in motion will have to move to adjust its tilt angle. A flat panel antenna when elevation angles get more than about 50 degrees off of vertical start becoming more inefficient. While Starband says they will operate down to elevation angles 25 degrees above the horizon they can only do this when biased in toward the horizon as opposed to looking straight up. As you move closer to the equator even an antenna looking straight up can still interfere with Geo satellites as those satellites would be in the operational arc of the antenna. For example in Ketchikan, the elevation angle to the SES-15 satellite is 26.5 degrees. A Starlink antenna tilted 15 degrees to the south (like the antenna on the boat across from me in Wrangell) would have an operational envelope that could result in interference to the Ku band services on that satellite since they use the same uplink frequencies.

Flat panel electronic steerable antennas are impressive technology but have their limitations. The two most notable are off angle efficiency (gain) and most support only half duplex communications like your VHF radio. My bet is Starlink's in motion antenna is probably going to have to be agile if they intend to operate world wide as it must avoid transmitting toward the Geo arc.

Tom

 

[Sababa]

The terminal meant for use in motion will have to move to adjust its tilt angle. A flat panel antenna when elevation angles get more than about 50 degrees off of vertical start becoming more inefficient. While Starband says they will operate down to elevation angles 25 degrees above the horizon they can only do this when biased in toward the horizon as opposed to looking straight up. As you move closer to the equator even an antenna looking straight up can still interfere with Geo satellites as those satellites would be in the operational arc of the antenna. For example in Ketchikan, the elevation angle to the SES-15 satellite is 26.5 degrees. A Starlink antenna tilted 15 degrees to the south (like the antenna on the boat across from me in Wrangell) would have an operational envelope that could result in interference to the Ku band services on that satellite since they use the same uplink frequencies.

Flat panel electronic steerable antennas are impressive technology but have their limitations. The two most notable are off angle efficiency (gain) and most support only half duplex communications like your VHF radio. My bet is Starlink's in motion antenna is probably going to have to be agile if they intend to operate world wide as it must avoid transmitting toward the Geo arc.

Tom

Once they have lots of interconnected satellites, including in highly inclined and polar orbits, why would a flat panel terminal ever need to steer a part of the sky where it would interfere with geostationary satellites, even at the equator?

Also/alternatively, why could the terminals not be structured in the form of a sub-array of smaller panels arranged in something like a geodesic dome pattern rather than in the form of a single upward facing flat panel, as in some commercial antennas?

 

[Helmsman]

The terminal meant for use in motion will have to move to adjust its tilt angle. A flat panel antenna when elevation angles get more than about 50 degrees off of vertical start becoming more inefficient. While Starband says they will operate down to elevation angles 25 degrees above the horizon they can only do this when biased in toward the horizon as opposed to looking straight up. As you move closer to the equator even an antenna looking straight up can still interfere with Geo satellites as those satellites would be in the operational arc of the antenna. For example in Ketchikan, the elevation angle to the SES-15 satellite is 26.5 degrees. A Starlink antenna tilted 15 degrees to the south (like the antenna on the boat across from me in Wrangell) would have an operational envelope that could result in interference to the Ku band services on that satellite since they use the same uplink frequencies.

Flat panel electronic steerable antennas are impressive technology but have their limitations. The two most notable are off angle efficiency (gain) and most support only half duplex communications like your VHF radio. My bet is Starlink's in motion antenna is probably going to have to be agile if they intend to operate world wide as it must avoid transmitting toward the Geo arc.

Tom

In one of the many articles out there, in a reference to the FCC decision it was stated that I read that Starlink was transmitting uplinks on a different band than the one they were receiving information with, in order to not interfere with the geostationary satellites. Would that address the interference issue?

 

[tpbrady]

Starlink uses anywhere from 10.7-12.7 GHz for their downlinks and 14.0-14.5 GHz for uplinks. In the US they favor the 12.2-12.7 GHz for the downlink. The 14-14.5 GHz is the typical Ku band uplink frequency for Geo satellites. The fact that they are half duplex only means they are either transmitting or receiving even though they do so on different frequencies. With a regular parabolic satellite antenna with different uplink and downlink frequencies full duplex communications is the norm.

As far as biasing the antenna to point either north or south, logic would dictate they would never transmit toward the Geo orbit whether they were directly under the equator or at 55 degrees north. In their FCC filing they spoke specifically how they would avoid interfering with Geo satellites when they are using frequencies where they are secondary to Geo. An antenna biased toward the south in the northern hemisphere is probably pushing the limits of what they agreed to do.

Tom

 

[Helmsman]

Starlink uses anywhere from 10.7-12.7 GHz for their downlinks and 14.0-14.5 GHz for uplinks. In the US they favor the 12.2-12.7 GHz for the downlink. The 14-14.5 GHz is the typical Ku band uplink frequency for Geo satellites. The fact that they are half duplex only means they are either transmitting or receiving even though they do so on different frequencies. With a regular parabolic satellite antenna with different uplink and downlink frequencies full duplex communications is the norm.

As far as biasing the antenna to point either north or south, logic would dictate they would never transmit toward the Geo orbit whether they were directly under the equator or at 55 degrees north. In their FCC filing they spoke specifically how they would avoid interfering with Geo satellites when they are using frequencies where they are secondary to Geo. An antenna biased toward the south in the northern hemisphere is probably pushing the limits of what they agreed to do.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. That clears it up,

 

[sunchaser]

Very informative TP, thanks. Will those South of the equator have similar benefits from Starlink as us Northeners?

 

[tpbrady]

Tom,

The satellite constellation is perfectly symmetrical between the northern and southern hemispheres. The only wild cards are the availability of gateways and the use of the laser satellite to satellite crosslinks, but the service should be identical.

Tom

 

[Insequent]

Tom,

The satellite constellation is perfectly symmetrical between the northern and southern hemispheres. The only wild cards are the availability of gateways and the use of the laser satellite to satellite crosslinks, but the service should be identical.

Tom

I'm keeping up with developments but not yet ready to purchase. At present there seems to be a goldilocks zone - not too close to the pole, not too close to the equator. I'm at approx 27.5°S latitude. Sub-tropical for sure, but where I prefer to cruise is closer to the equator.

Also service is not available very far off the coast. The southern end of the Great Barrier Reef can be up to 200nm off the coast, and when out there I have no VHF or cell service so that's where it will be of greatest value. Its been moving fast though, so it wont be too long before the coverage I want will be available.

 

[magna 6882]

I went ahead and ordered yesterday. we aere out on the water and as usual my tmobile hostpot plan went to 0.012 mbs. Barley able to get email so i used the data plan on my phone to order a starlink. It still would be cheaper to work with cell but i guess i am just tired of checking for signal strength ect.I hope i didn't make a knee jerk decision.

 

[PJHoffnet]

So, I'm pretty darn sure I'm not going to be getting the 'maritime' version of StarLink.
Source: https://www.starlink.com/maritime
- - - - -
High-speed, low-latency internet with up to 350 Mbps download while at sea. $5,000/mo with a one-time hardware cost of $10,000 for two high performance terminals.

 

[HTurner]

So, I'm pretty darn sure I'm not going to be getting the 'maritime' version of StarLink.
Source: https://www.starlink.com/maritime
- - - - -
High-speed, low-latency internet with up to 350 Mbps download while at sea. $5,000/mo with a one-time hardware cost of $10,000 for two high performance terminals.

Very pricey, priced way out of most boater's means. I wonder now that there is this Maritime offering how it will effect those who use the standard terminals on the water...

 

[koliver]

I get this message:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST IN ORDERING STARLINK!
Starlink Maritime is currently not available in your area. Please check back again for future availability.

A neighboring boat has Starlink aboard, working at "exceptional Speed", though not the "Maritime" version.

 

[HTurner]

Found this article, of note:


"The terminals are “performance dishes” about twice the size of a home dish, Starlink’s Joseph Scarantino noted on Twitter.
“Two Perf Dishes quadruples performance — so that helps reduce latency, ping drops, or loss of signal at sea because of the wider FOV provided by the two Dishes,” he wrote."


Full article:

Starlink Maritime on your yacht, so hot