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After frustrating days of trying to get work done while out cruising in BC, I ordered the STARLINK RV setup last night. I am reading all the posts on installing the antenna. I plan to post a follow up once it is installed….
 
"I do not see a need for a dome except perhaps for asthetics. The unit is rated for outdoor use."

I have not seen one of the Starlink antennae, are they robust enough to withstand 50 knot winds? Open array radar and the KVI TV/comm type bubbles do fine.
 
Steppe said:
"I do not see a need for a dome except perhaps for asthetics. The unit is rated for outdoor use."

I have not seen one of the Starlink antennae, are they robust enough to withstand 50 knot winds? Open array radar and the KVI TV/comm type bubbles do fine.
Click to expand...


Ours is temporarily bungee'd to the solar panel rails over the aft bimini. We had sustained winds > 61 mph in Ocean Falls, BC a few weeks ago. I say > 61 mph because that's where our reset bug was on our anemometer, so the needle couldn't go any higher, but from how hard it was banging up against the stop, and the length of time it stayed there, we hit at least 65 mph and probably gusts of 70 or so . . . The antenna didn't budge.:thumb:
 
Steppe said:
"I do not see a need for a dome except perhaps for asthetics. The unit is rated for outdoor use."

I have not seen one of the Starlink antennae, are they robust enough to withstand 50 knot winds? Open array radar and the KVI TV/comm type bubbles do fine.
Click to expand...

I can't tell you the wind speed since Starlink is at the house, but we have had numerous bad storms with high winds over the last 4-6 weeks, and Dishy has been fine.

We had one wind gust that blew 40ish feet of the top from a hardwood tree almost two feet in diameter. :eek::banghead::facepalm: Dishy was fine. :thumb: We do have signal issues in very heavy rain but that usually only lasts for a minute or so. Ironically, we used to have the same thing happen when we had Internet over cable. :socool:

One a boat, I would want a dome to protect Dishy from wind and salt water. Just seems like that would be a good thing. Dishy does not move but I do wonder how it is locked in place or does the motor have to come on in high winds?

Later,
Dan
 
For those wanting additional info, there is a Facebook page called "Starlink for boats"
 
Today, I received this email from Starlink:


612x101.png
Today we ask for your support in ending a lobbying campaign that threatens to make Starlink unusable for you and the vast majority of our American customers.

As recently reported, DISH Network has been hoarding spectrum for years as a strategy for preventing open and fair competition.

Most recently, DISH has been attempting to claim new rights to the 12 GHz band, which is the spectrum you currently use to download content with Starlink. Despite technical studies dating back as far as 2016 that refute the basis of their claims, DISH has employed paid lobbyists who are attempting to mislead the FCC with faulty analysis in hopes of obscuring the truth.

In reality, if DISH gets their way, Starlink customers will experience harmful interference more than 77% of the time and total outage of service 74% of the time, rendering Starlink unusable for most Americans. You can read the details here.


The FCC and your members of Congress have the power to stop this effort, but they need to hear from you.


Click here to ask the FCC and members of Congress to put an end to this threat.
Space Exploration Technologies Corp | 1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne, CA 90250 Questions? See Starlink FAQs

​
 
HTurner said:
Today, I received this email from Starlink:


612x101.png
Today we ask for your support in ending a lobbying campaign that threatens to make Starlink unusable for you and the vast majority of our American customers.

As recently reported, DISH Network has been hoarding spectrum for years as a strategy for preventing open and fair competition.

Most recently, DISH has been attempting to claim new rights to the 12 GHz band, which is the spectrum you currently use to download content with Starlink. Despite technical studies dating back as far as 2016 that refute the basis of their claims, DISH has employed paid lobbyists who are attempting to mislead the FCC with faulty analysis in hopes of obscuring the truth.

In reality, if DISH gets their way, Starlink customers will experience harmful interference more than 77% of the time and total outage of service 74% of the time, rendering Starlink unusable for most Americans. You can read the details here.


The FCC and your members of Congress have the power to stop this effort, but they need to hear from you.


Click here to ask the FCC and members of Congress to put an end to this threat.
Space Exploration Technologies Corp | 1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne, CA 90250 Questions? See Starlink FAQs

​
Click to expand...

I completed this. Will also send out to friends and family and ask them to complete.
 
HTurner said:
Today, I received this email from Starlink:


612x101.png
Today we ask for your support in ending a lobbying campaign that threatens to make Starlink unusable for you and the vast majority of our American customers.

As recently reported, DISH Network has been hoarding spectrum for years as a strategy for preventing open and fair competition.

Most recently, DISH has been attempting to claim new rights to the 12 GHz band, which is the spectrum you currently use to download content with Starlink. Despite technical studies dating back as far as 2016 that refute the basis of their claims, DISH has employed paid lobbyists who are attempting to mislead the FCC with faulty analysis in hopes of obscuring the truth.

In reality, if DISH gets their way, Starlink customers will experience harmful interference more than 77% of the time and total outage of service 74% of the time, rendering Starlink unusable for most Americans. You can read the details here.


The FCC and your members of Congress have the power to stop this effort, but they need to hear from you.


Click here to ask the FCC and members of Congress to put an end to this threat.
Space Exploration Technologies Corp | 1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne, CA 90250 Questions? See Starlink FAQs

​
Click to expand...

Done!
 
I have to be the one to point out that there is another side to this argument, that of Dish. Elon Musk has used the power of social media to make his case, but that doesn't mean legally he's right or he's wrong. The courts will ultimately decide unless the companies reach some form of agreement. None of this is a sudden surprise to Musk as he just chose to ignore the possibilities and proceed full speed ahead. I have no idea who will prevail, but lets not be too quick to jump on the bandwagon of he who yells the loudest. I will not join in petitioning the FCC with what Musk wants as I believe he decided he could do what he wanted and ignore the issues. Understand Dish and it's shareholders have a very large investment at stake. Yes, they have lobbyists, but then Musk is trying to get millions of people to lobby for him. Neither set of lobbyists is lobbying necessarily because they believe their client is legally right.

All I suggest is an open mind as the legalities are resolved. Ultimately, I expect Musk to pay Dish for rights and make the issues all go away.
 
Musk is not alone opposing Dish... AT&T, Google and Microsoft, as well as satellite network operators such as Intelsat, OneWeb and SES, all filed comments with the federal agency opposing Dish.
 
BandB said:
I have to be the one to point out that there is another side to this argument, that of Dish. Elon Musk has used the power of social media to make his case, but that doesn't mean legally he's right or he's wrong. The courts will ultimately decide unless the companies reach some form of agreement. None of this is a sudden surprise to Musk as he just chose to ignore the possibilities and proceed full speed ahead. I have no idea who will prevail, but lets not be too quick to jump on the bandwagon of he who yells the loudest. I will not join in petitioning the FCC with what Musk wants as I believe he decided he could do what he wanted and ignore the issues. Understand Dish and it's shareholders have a very large investment at stake. Yes, they have lobbyists, but then Musk is trying to get millions of people to lobby for him. Neither set of lobbyists is lobbying necessarily because they believe their client is legally right.

All I suggest is an open mind as the legalities are resolved. Ultimately, I expect Musk to pay Dish for rights and make the issues all go away.
Click to expand...

You have good points. But, the issue facing the FCC is a fairly easily resolvable issue. Not resolving it, delaying it, and slowing the speed of business is not acceptable for citizens.

I dealt with Lobbyists in DC and the EU. They are considered a necessary part of the political process. But, in some quarters they are viewed as the white hat in a dispute. What I found is that the level of misinformation distributed in these types of decisions is unbelieveable, and sometimes swallowed whole by those voting in congress and the Senate.

The US government purports to want to get high speed broad band to rural areas. The solution is here. If that is what the government wants, the opportunity is there with Starlink. It isn’t with Dish.
 
Helmsman said:
The US government purports to want to get high speed broad band to rural areas. The solution is here. If that is what the government wants, the opportunity is there with Starlink. It isn’t with Dish.
Click to expand...


Very well said!
 
Helmsman said:
The US government purports to want to get high speed broad band to rural areas. The solution is here. If that is what the government wants, the opportunity is there with Starlink. It isn’t with Dish.
Click to expand...


Totally agree. Dish is a dinosaur that hasn't died yet.
 
Helmsman said:
You have good points. But, the issue facing the FCC is a fairly easily resolvable issue. Not resolving it, delaying it, and slowing the speed of business is not acceptable for citizens.

I dealt with Lobbyists in DC and the EU. They are considered a necessary part of the political process. But, in some quarters they are viewed as the white hat in a dispute. What I found is that the level of misinformation distributed in these types of decisions is unbelieveable, and sometimes swallowed whole by those voting in congress and the Senate.

The US government purports to want to get high speed broad band to rural areas. The solution is here. If that is what the government wants, the opportunity is there with Starlink. It isn’t with Dish.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. I do not like Musk and do not like Dish. Equal opportunity dislike. However, I also don't know the full legal arguments. Sometimes a "bad guy" jumps in ahead of others and then has a legal standing even when not in the public interest. If that is the case then you have to find a way to do what is in the public interest, but also compensate the bad guy. Painful when it happens.

A simple example of such a situation occurring was opportunist buying thousands of acres of farm land at the first mention of roads or rail being built, rezoning to commercial, then when eminent domain is declared demanding a huge return, selling right of way for the roads for more than paid and keeping all the extra which is now prime real estate. You feel bad for the farmers and other land owners, you feel bad for what the state has to pay, but it's all legal.

In 2004 and 2005, 214 licenses were auctioned to 11 companies. Dish is now the largest holder with about 40% while RS Access (Michael Dell) is the second largest holder. Dish's licenses cover 75% of the country and RS Access only about 15%. Dish did nothing with their licenses but when they bought Boost Mobile they suddenly had potential value. No one really anticipated the acceleration of cell speeds or Starlink in 2004 and that certainly includes the FCC. The most prevalent thoughts at the time were for the bandwidth to be uses for television which is why Cablevision and Dish and Michael Dell were the big buyers. Dish wasn't in the cellular business.

I believe it will be resolved and Starlink will continue, but I also believe a lot of money will have to change hands to make it all work out.

We've never anticipated technology advancements well. I certainly haven't.
 
BandB said:
Don't get me wrong. I do not like Musk and do not like Dish. Equal opportunity dislike. However, I also don't know the full legal arguments. Sometimes a "bad guy" jumps in ahead of others and then has a legal standing even when not in the public interest. If that is the case then you have to find a way to do what is in the public interest, but also compensate the bad guy. Painful when it happens.

A simple example of such a situation occurring was opportunist buying thousands of acres of farm land at the first mention of roads or rail being built, rezoning to commercial, then when eminent domain is declared demanding a huge return, selling right of way for the roads for more than paid and keeping all the extra which is now prime real estate. You feel bad for the farmers and other land owners, you feel bad for what the state has to pay, but it's all legal.

In 2004 and 2005, 214 licenses were auctioned to 11 companies. Dish is now the largest holder with about 40% while RS Access (Michael Dell) is the second largest holder. Dish's licenses cover 75% of the country and RS Access only about 15%. Dish did nothing with their licenses but when they bought Boost Mobile they suddenly had potential value. No one really anticipated the acceleration of cell speeds or Starlink in 2004 and that certainly includes the FCC. The most prevalent thoughts at the time were for the bandwidth to be uses for television which is why Cablevision and Dish and Michael Dell were the big buyers. Dish wasn't in the cellular business.

I believe it will be resolved and Starlink will continue, but I also believe a lot of money will have to change hands to make it all work out.

We've never anticipated technology advancements well. I certainly haven't.
Click to expand...

Dish doesn’t have any vested rights in that spectrum. The FCC’s operating principle is use it or lose it. SpaceX is using it and there is no reason it should have to pay a dime to Dish while they fail to build out their network at the pace they promised to the FCC in the first place.

We as cruisers and consumers have a dog in this fight. I don’t care a bit about Dish and its shareholders and the FCC shouldn’t either. Dish isn’t going to make it possible for me to work remotely from Glacier Bay and they shouldn’t be gaming the regulatory system to stop SpaceX.
 
I don't know that much about it all....

But I see it like "imminent domain"....well sorta as the Govt already regulates the airwaves...

Bulldoze Dish and make way for the greater good. :D
 
Starlink is guilty of gross exaggeration in their letter. However, I will not take sides. The spectrum in question is 12.2-12.7 GHz. The primary use of that spectrum is the broadcast satellite service (BSS). This we know today as DISH Network and DirecTV. Starlink filed for and was approved for a downlink of 10.7-12.7 GHz, about 500 MHz of which Starlink is a primary user. Starlink has an obligation to not interfere with BSS services and this they do by generally biasing satellite operation to the north. DISH also has secondary rights for using 12.2-12.7 GHz for a terrestrial Multichannel Video and Data Distribution Service (MVDDS) but hasn’t done much but test it. Their latest petition to the FCC is to repurpose MVDDS for 5G cellular. That’s a technical issue to determine if Starlink, DISH cellular, and BSS can coexist. DISH currently has around 8 million TV customers, so they are the ones that stand to lose the most if it is approved and there is unacceptable interference.

Tom
 
tpbrady said:
DISH also has secondary rights for using 12.2-12.7 GHz for a terrestrial Multichannel Video and Data Distribution Service (MVDDS) but hasn’t done much but test it. Their latest petition to the FCC is to repurpose MVDDS for 5G cellular. That’s a technical issue to determine if Starlink, DISH cellular, and BSS can coexist.
Click to expand...

Starlink’s complaint as I understand it is not just that Dish is understating the potential for interference with its service, but that it is effectively squatting on its rights by doing the absolute minimum build out required to hold on to them (and really not even that) rather than making an effort to launch a bona fide commercial service. They wouldn’t be the first to employ this slow-roll tactic to jam up the regulatory works for their competitors in hopes of getting paid off to go away. I’ll believe that Dish is actually planning in good faith to build a terrestrial 5G network when I see it.
 
In the case of 12.2-12.7 GHz, I don't think warehousing the spectrum is valid argument. The reason mainly is DISH and others have never been able to come up with a commercial reason to develop it. It is similar to the LMDS Ka band spectrum of 20 years ago. The operating constraints on Ku and Ka band are such that direct line of sight is pretty much required and range dictated by the antennas in use. For cellular uses we probably talking few hundred feet. There was a big to do about using 29-30 GHz for 5G but that has cooled down because the usable range is measured in yards. The big one now is the 3-4 GHz spectrum (Part being C-Band satellite) since it has pretty decent range and a lot of bandwidth. DISH seems to have met their initial 5G milestone by offering service to 20% of the US population using its own facilities. The one quote that always stuck with me from the CEO of DISH, Charlie Ergen. It went something like this, "The one with the most spectrum wins."

Tom
 
DISH seems to have met their initial 5G milestone by offering service to 20% of the US population using its own facilities.
Click to expand...

Dish says they have, but an “invite only beta” seems to be stretching the requirement.
 
Received this email today. They are the Bob Lindel/Waggoner group. They are in Ernest Sound, Alaska halfway from K-Town and Wrangell:


Starlink Update 6/30/22

Text to Dan: Starlink Working Great. Used it Underway for half an hour yesterday and no problem. During my 1 hr zoom call yesterday at the dock in Meyers Chuck I had 2 drops of 10 and 20 sec. But they came back up on their own. During the 2 Hr Sounders game on prime video, we had 2 or so drops at anchor here in Santa Anna - 56 deg north. Both about 30 sec. Speed is fantastic. 150 mbps down 15-30 up. Waiting to see what happens next week in Stephen's passage north of the waitlist area just north of Petersburg --

Dan and I are both in Santa Anna, anchored 300 yds apart. We both have great service though he does have a stern tie which reduces his movement. I am at anchor and the dish (often nicknamed Dishy or on a boat Fishy) does not appear to move much which I believe is due to the dish having phased array antenna sensors which allow for some movement. Some boaters have unplugged the motor cables and laid the dish flat which works great.

When we were underway it was pretty calm and the track was pretty straight so I would liken it to swinging on the hook. The distance traveled was only about 5 nm but still enough to test whether location changes matter much. A lot of turning might drive the dish crazy as it does need to point roughly south. It is nearly flat with about 20-30 deg tilt in a roughly southerly direction.
The App has a lot of diagnostics built in. Besides the speed test, it has a UPTIME record and shows 4 min of unknown caused outages in the last 2 hours. Also Latency and usage stats.

Santa Anna does have some high mountains but not quite a fiord. 2400 ft on all sides but not steep enough to affect the signal. We will test the fiord reception next week.
 
I wonder if all these reports of using Starlink underway (supposedly when you are not supposed to be) may help the ultimate demise or problems with Starlink.
 
psneeld said:
I wonder if all these reports of using Starlink underway (supposedly when you are not supposed to be) may help the ultimate demise or problems with Starlink.
Click to expand...


It does not help Starlink. These reports will ultimately give more fuel to Dish and cause regulatory trouble or force Starlink to suspend accounts for use while in motion.
 
HTurner said:
It does not help Starlink. These reports will ultimately give more fuel to Dish and cause regulatory trouble or force Starlink to suspend accounts for use while in motion.
Click to expand...

Apparently not, thank goodness! If anything, I’d bet the fact that Dish couldn’t point to any examples of interference occurring despite many people posting that they had used Starlink in motion supported the decision.
 
New "mobile in motion" terminal coming? Many other questions answered...



 
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