Ready for a new refrigerator

[Choices]

Wait. It works on AC and DC, but can not select which one.

That is probably a simple relay.
As long as AC is present it stays powered. You lose AC it opens and allows DC to connect.

I think you can fix this. Look for the relay. Thermostat works, control board works, compressor works.

 

[Helmsman]

Man, you guys are the best. I will do some investigation into the compressor type, but my Norcold is from 2006 when the boat was built. Is 16 years old in refrigerator year? More as I know it. Thank you.

I had a 2006 NovaKool. The AC DC power was two separate units. The larger silver box was where the AC converted to DC. The smaller unit was a variation of the newer Secop 101N0510 ac/dc power unit which accepted the converted DC power from the silver box and the DC feed from the battery.



The AC DC silver box failed and shorted electricity into the water. I was able to pull both and replace with the updated 101N0510 which does both. I bring this up because yours may be the same. If you have a silver box with AC running in and then wires over to what looks like 101N0500 then I would pull both and replace with the 101N0510. Easy switch, just take pictures of where the wires are connected on the old one. If you want to make it DC only underway, and you have an inverter that powers the AC, just switch the AC feed off when underway.

 

[Slowmo]

We replaced a Norcold DE061 with a Novacool RFU9000. While they claim it was drop in we had to add a bit of extra trim around the front to ensure enough clearance for airflow in back. As to performance we're happy with the Novacool. While you can get this unit with either one or two compressors we got the single compressor model, I didn't see a reason to double energy draw and we're not in the tropics. The Novacool has more room in it than the old Norcold BUT Novacool is a small company so they don't have Norcold's custom made vegetable bins. We love the bottom freezer aspect, the only other one with that is the Isotherm but it doesn't really fit where the Norcolds do it is really two units bolted together with two compressors, hence even more power consumption and the inevitable noise. None of these are silent.

As to reliability time will tell. I am wondering if the problem with marine refers is that they're shut off most of the time. I've been told that sitting is bad for any refrigerator. I'm not an expert but has anyone tried just adding a timer to cycle the refer for a few minutes every couple days when in storage? Would that help?

 

[Comodave]

Our Isotherm is very quiet, we don’t even hear it running.

 

[ranger58sb]

As to reliability time will tell. I am wondering if the problem with marine refers is that they're shut off most of the time. I've been told that sitting is bad for any refrigerator. I'm not an expert but has anyone tried just adding a timer to cycle the refer for a few minutes every couple days when in storage? Would that help?

We had two NovaKool units in the previous boat. Both on 24/7 from March through November. Worked fine, though we had to defrost periodically.

-Chris

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I was able to operate the old Norcold for several hours yesterday on either AC or DC by only enable one source at a time using the corresponding breaker. That might be contrary to the manual, but if that's all it takes, I can do that.

Unless my 16 year old Norcold is simply dying a slow death one system at a time. In that case, I have narrowed the alternatives down to these two.

1. Nova Kool RFU9200. This is the dual compressor unit that fits almost perfectly in the cabinet and what Helmsman is putting in these boats today. Ventilation is built in and through the front panel just like the Norcold thus requiring no new vent holes. About $3200.
2. Isotherm Cruise 195 Classic. Also a dual compressor design. My two Wesbasto air conditioner units have been quite reliable and Isotherm has an excellent reputation, but the 195 is smaller than the 9200 and installation would require some shim work in addition to cutting vent holes in the cabinet. About $3200.

Tough choice.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Look for the relay. Thermostat works, control board works, compressor works.

I thought so too, Choices, but both AC and DC supplies connect directly to the control module and the "decision" about what to use, at least on my 16 year old model, appears to not be made automatically.

 

[Comodave]

I was able to operate the old Norcold for several hours yesterday on either AC or DC by only enable one source at a time using the corresponding breaker. That might be contrary to the manual, but if that's all it takes, I can do that.

Unless my 16 year old Norcold is simply dying a slow death one system at a time. In that case, I have narrowed the alternatives down to these two.

1. Nova Kool RFU9200. This is the dual compressor unit that fits almost perfectly in the cabinet and what Helmsman is putting in these boats today. Ventilation is built in and through the front panel just like the Norcold thus requiring no new vent holes. About $3200.
2. Isotherm Cruise 195 Classic. Also a dual compressor design. My two Wesbasto air conditioner units have been quite reliable and Isotherm has an excellent reputation, but the 195 is smaller than the 9200 and installation would require some shim work in addition to cutting vent holes in the cabinet. About $3200.

Tough choice.

Based on my experience with our new Isotherm, I would go that way. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Helmsman]

I thought so too, Choices, but both AC and DC supplies connect directly to the control module and the "decision" about what to use, at least on my 16 year old model, appears to not be made automatically.

Then you have the newer control unit, which is a good thing. If you do decide to pull the old one, I would remove the parts that would work on the new and keep for spares.

 

[Scottwb96]

another +1 for Vitrifrigo. Had it in for almost 2 years. Been working perfectly. Only had to defrost it 2x and that was because someone left the door slightly open.
Just an FYI (unless they've change the design) the stainless option only opens from the right (hinge on right) the black model, opens both directions. Easy to flip the opening if needed (I had to).

 

[Circumnavigator]

We are probably going to replace the existing Norcold DE-0061 in Morning Light with something larger. The Norcold Polar N10DC is out there as well as several possibilities from Isotherm at high prices. We need 24" nominal width and up to 79" height. I'm thinking about a standard residential 110VAC unit.



Does anyone have any thoughts about other 12VDC or 24VDC units in the 10-12 cuft (280-340 liter) range? Any comments on using a standard residential fridge on a boat? -- I know the manual say they have to be level, but we ran a 50Hz under counter residential unit from the UK on 60Hz on Fintry for six years, including the Atlantic crossing with no problems.


Anyone want the Norcold?



Thanks,


Jim

 

[Comodave]

OCDiver had a thread about residential refers. We love our Isotherm CR271. I think it is 9.8 cubic feet. Cools excellently with good ventilation.

 

[O C Diver]

I'm thinking about a standard residential 110VAC unit.
Any comments on using a standard residential fridge on a boat? -- I know the manual say they have to be level, but we ran a 50Hz under counter residential unit from the UK on 60Hz on Fintry for six years, including the Atlantic crossing with no problems.

OCDiver had a thread about residential refers. We love our Isotherm CR271. I think it is 9.8 cubic feet. Cools excellently with good ventilation.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s31/my-new-apartment-refrigerator-41392.html

I've had mine about 4 years and other than the thermostat, it's been flawless. Most of the thermostats are junk until you get and expensive home model. I had a problem with mine which is rare for those of us who have Summit refrigerators on our boats. Ended up changing mine for a nice digital thermostat, and will add the link below.

In addition to it being Frost Free and super efficient, you can order it with a traditional ice maker if that's important to you. While you loose some space in the freezer, for those that need ice for drinks, it can be the game changer.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums...-thermostat-another-project-thread-62905.html

Ted

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm thinking about a standard residential 110VAC unit.

Any comments on using a standard residential fridge on a boat? -- I know the manual say they have to be level, but we ran a 50Hz under counter residential unit from the UK on 60Hz on Fintry for six years, including the Atlantic crossing with no problems.

Our boat model was built with SubZero residential freezer and fridge. Later model year iterations were built with Perlich units. Freezer and fridge are both 24" wide, both brands.

Ours seem fine. The original icemaker in the freezer crapped out a few months ago; I replaced, easy. Shortly afterwards, we discovered some water leakage under the freezer and I chose to have a local fix-it guy come to do the work. Just as well I did, since he found even more leaks: icemaker feed, plus condensation. All good now, and only cost an arm (leg not required).

He noticed and mentioned the freezer compressor had been replaced, previously. He also diagnosed an issue with our fridge control panel (can't change temp from 36°F), but said since it's working well enough at that temp to ignore that 'til it really goes south.

SubZero seems to enjoy a decent reputation for longevity... and can be repaired. SubZero is said to stock parts for almost ever.

OTOH they do cost an arm and a leg... and a decent hunting dog.

The warranty in a boat installation is different from, not as long as, their residential warranty.

Frost free is turning out to be nifty. We always had AC/DC fridges before (Norcold, two boats ago, NovaKool on the last) and had no particular issues with those. In fact, I thought the NovaKool units were both pretty good. But they did need defrosting from time to time.

Our fridge is a 2-drawer unit. That's turning out to be mostly nifty, too. Easier to find stuff, easier to get it in and out. One drawback is that the upper drawer isn't quite tall enough for a typical white wine bottle. (Wine boxes solve that easily enough.)

Next is the part about 110VAC only: our genset came with high hours, I think specifically because previous owners had to run the generator all the time when away from shorepower... even when aircon or other high-draw appliances wouldn't have been necessary. We installed a 3000 kW inverter/charger and re-purposed our thruster battery bank to service AC loads including the fridge and freezer, all better.

Not a recommendation; just observations.

-Chris

 

[CharlieO.]

Following this thread with interest. I need to replace our fridge and it is good to know my available different options. I'm in no rush but will probably be a spring project.

Circumnavigator, if your looking to get rid of the Norcold I may be interested if you're still in New England.

 

[Circumnavigator]

O C Diver, in your original thread four years ago you said, "Last issue is locking doors. Apparently apartment refrigerators aren't subject to pitching and rolling."


The Admiral has raised that as a good reason to go with a marine unit. How did you deal with it?


Jim

 

[O C Diver]

O C Diver, in your original thread four years ago you said, "Last issue is locking doors. Apparently apartment refrigerators aren't subject to pitching and rolling."


The Admiral has raised that as a good reason to go with a marine unit. How did you deal with it? Jim

My refrigerator door faces to the stern. The magnetic seal is substantial. To date, it has never opened, even in 6' seas.

I have considered several options for heavy weather. Avoiding heavy weather seemed the best.

If you want to install a heavy weather lock, it would be pretty simple to block both doors with a small piece of Starboard that could be attached to the hinge screw hole. The doors are designed to be reversible to open the other way. So there are a couple of capped hinge screw holes that should work.



The important thing to understand is that the magnetic seal keeps it closed. So it should require almost nothing to keep the door from starting to move.

Ted

 

[Tator]

Simplest way to lock your fridge door is to use a velcro strap. We use a small piece of velcro with adhesive backs and the longer loop thingies. However, our fridge is not totally enclosed. We attach one piece to the main body side and the other to the side of the door. Only fasten it in rough seas and in 16 years have never had it fail. Boat is 900 miles away or I'd take a photo to show it.

Tator

 

[ranger58sb]

Circumnavigator, if your looking to get rid of the Norcold I may be interested if you're still in New England.

Ours have had rotating stainless toggles added to each opening -- at the top of the freezer unit and at the top of each drawer on the fridge unit.

-Chris

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Well this thread took an appropriate turn. Last weekend's troubleshooting confirmed that my generation of Norcold DE0061 does not automatically switch from DC to AC by sensing what is available. That explains the difference in my results this year. Shame on me.

The old thing ran just fine on DC all weekend, but as if it is driven to be replaced, I saw a huge increase in the temperature swing. While my records are far from comprehensive, I used to see pretty tight control; or at least acceptably tight for our use. Now I am seeing 33-41º swings. Too cold to too warm.

I do not see any physical changes to the temperature sensor or to the thermostat dial. It is certainly possible that what I used to think was okay was just luck. I read Ted's digital thermostat thread and replacing the original Norcold thermostat with a new digital one looks pretty straightforward, but I feel like I am beating a dead horse. How long do you guys chase problems like this before calling it and replacing the whole unit?

 

[Scottwb96]

I put these on 2 of our fridge doors. They work perfectly...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085NF6L78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[O C Diver]

Well this thread took an appropriate turn. Last weekend's troubleshooting confirmed that my generation of Norcold DE0061 does not automatically switch from DC to AC by sensing what is available. That explains the difference in my results this year. Shame on me.

The old thing ran just fine on DC all weekend, but as if it is driven to be replaced, I saw a huge increase in the temperature swing. While my records are far from comprehensive, I used to see pretty tight control; or at least acceptably tight for our use. Now I am seeing 33-41º swings. Too cold to too warm.

I do not see any physical changes to the temperature sensor or to the thermostat dial. It is certainly possible that what I used to think was okay was just luck. I read Ted's digital thermostat thread and replacing the original Norcold thermostat with a new digital one looks pretty straightforward, but I feel like I am beating a dead horse. How long do you guys chase problems like this before calling it and replacing the whole unit?

If considering the digital thermostat, verify voltage of the compressor circuit if you plan to supply power to the thermostat with it. Mine was easy because everything was 120 VAC.

Ted

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Spent some more phone time with Norcold answering my question of "Is it normal for my refrigerator to swing from 33º to 41º?" The rep told me that the normal range is 32º to 39º and that if 41º is too warm, I should turn the thermostat down a little at a time until it tops out at 39º. Yeesh.

So once again, I learn that my Norcold DE0061R is working as designed. If there is good news, it is that the control module and compressor are working just fine.

This season it has frozen and burst cans of seltzer water, allowed hair to grow on mayanaise, and worried my wife when she discovered the half & half "warm." Sounds like I might be a good candidate for a new digital thermometer.

 

[O C Diver]

Spent some more phone time with Norcold answering my question of "Is it normal for my refrigerator to swing from 33º to 41º?" The rep told me that the normal range is 32º to 39º and that if 41º is too warm, I should turn the thermostat down a little at a time until it tops out at 39º. Yeesh.

So once again, I learn that my Norcold DE0061R is working as designed. If there is good news, it is that the control module and compressor are working just fine.

This season it has frozen and burst cans of seltzer water, allowed hair to grow on mayanaise, and worried my wife when she discovered the half & half "warm." Sounds like I might be a good candidate for a new digital thermometer.

A 7 degree differential BS. It should be pretty simple to run the refrigerator off an inverter and wire the digital thermostat between the refrigerator power cord and outlet. It would require a small hole to run the temperature sensor cord (discount it from inside the thermostat) through and seal with RTV. Only downside I see is the refrigerator light would only come on when the compressor is running (and the door is open).

From a positive standpoint, you have a digital thermometer outside the refrigerator, an adjustable differential, and you you can place the sensor where it best works for you.

Ted

 

[Hippocampus]

Have had water cooled frig/freezers in the past. New to powerboat fri/freezers. Ours are the largest draw on the boat. Have a norcool frig/freezer and a separate ice maker ( U-Line) small freezer. Ice maker runs on AC only. Frig has two breakers on the panel on AC board and one on DC board. We’ve been emptying the AC small freezer first. Then shutting it off. Been running the Norcool with AC switch off and DC on.
Is there anything else I can do to lower draw?

 

[rslifkin]

Have had water cooled frig/freezers in the past. New to powerboat fri/freezers. Ours are the largest draw on the boat. Have a norcool frig/freezer and a separate ice maker ( U-Line) small freezer. Ice maker runs on AC only. Frig has two breakers on the panel on AC board and one on DC board. We’ve been emptying the AC small freezer first. Then shutting it off. Been running the Norcool with AC switch off and DC on.
Is there anything else I can do to lower draw?

Pretty much all you can do to save power is improve airflow over the condenser and add insulation to the fridge box. Depending on the install, that may be easy, or there may not be a whole lot to do.

 

[mvweebles]

Have had water cooled frig/freezers in the past. New to powerboat fri/freezers. Ours are the largest draw on the boat. Have a norcool frig/freezer and a separate ice maker ( U-Line) small freezer. Ice maker runs on AC only. Frig has two breakers on the panel on AC board and one on DC board. We’ve been emptying the AC small freezer first. Then shutting it off. Been running the Norcool with AC switch off and DC on.
Is there anything else I can do to lower draw?

Probably not the right thing for your boat, but I'm a rare bird that went old school and had my fridge replaced with a custom build box with lots 4" of insulation and a air cooled Danfoss. About 7cf and consumes around 60ah/day. Had a similar 3cf freezer built with separate compressor. It runs a about 75ah/day.

I recently returned an alipicool 42l fridge/freezer. It would easily churned through 90+ ah as a freezer.

As Rslifkin suggests, I would definitely see if you can install a computer muffin fan (or two) to assist cooling of cabinet. The compressor likely has a terminal for a fan so it's easy to wire-in.

Peter

 

[Comodave]

Have had water cooled frig/freezers in the past. New to powerboat fri/freezers. Ours are the largest draw on the boat. Have a norcool frig/freezer and a separate ice maker ( U-Line) small freezer. Ice maker runs on AC only. Frig has two breakers on the panel on AC board and one on DC board. We’ve been emptying the AC small freezer first. Then shutting it off. Been running the Norcool with AC switch off and DC on.
Is there anything else I can do to lower draw?

Adding a vent high and low along with a fan to move the hot air out of the cabinet will help the refer to run less.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Adding a vent high and low along with a fan to move the hot air out of the cabinet will help the refer to run less.

That is one place the Norcold excels, though perhaps at the expense of volume for the size. The compressor and fan are on the back and there is abundant grill space on front at both bottom and top.

Nova Kool puts the compressor(s) at the bottom and circulates air both in and out at the bottom. Doesn't look like much space (or need) for air flow at the top of the unit.

Isotherm has no accommodation for air flow and requires the owner to create vents for airflow in and out of the cabinet. That both creates more flexibility and more demand on installation.

 

[MVDarlin]

One of my best days on MVDarlin was when I replaced my AC/DC "Nevercold" Norcold Refer with a Regular Whirlpool, Made in Mexico AC unit and an inverter! $300 vs $1,200 and when you open the door a nice light comes on, the upper freezer works great for making ice cubes fast. The Norcold "DC" refer uses a bridge rectifier to convert AC to DC to make it an AC/DC unit. I do the opposite, running the AC refer off solar with an inverter. I run the refer all day on solar power and turn it off at night with the upper freezer full of ice cubes. Cubes melt but it stays cool enough overnight. I also have a 5 cubic foot chest freezer. I run it the same way. Darlin is located in Mexico on the Sea of Cortez.