Ray McCormack Sunseeker 54 delivery to Hawaii currently underway

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Larry M said:
................How did 3 people move around, hang out(on), sleep, prepare/eat meals on the trip?..........:popcorn:
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An enlisted man in the submarine service could answer your question.
 
The interior of that boat certainly must be a mess after that trip and diesel leaks, etc. Sunseeker should be pretty damn proud of what they built though, as that was far more weight and tougher conditions than that boat was designed to go through, but it appears to have handled it fine.
 
Good thing they took on as much fuel as they did, considering they arrived with only 100 gal left after what was lost overboard.


And not very bright to publicly proclaim that you dumped a few hundred gallons of fuel in the ocean. That could invite some interesting fines, boat seizure, etc.
 
twistedtree said:
Good thing they took on as much fuel as they did, considering they arrived with only 100 gal left after what was lost overboard.


And not very bright to publicly proclaim that you dumped a few hundred gallons of fuel in the ocean. That could invite some interesting fines, boat seizure, etc.
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I cannot imagine doing that trip in that boat. Single bed for all on board, flimsy canvas Bimini, leaking diesel in the living quarters - I'm agog at the sheer stupidity of it all. The fact they made it is great, just as someone going over Niagra Falls in a barrel is great. And about equally brainless an endeavor IMO.

I'd also seriously question the ability of 800 hp Man diesels being happy at idle rpm for two weeks.

www.nbmcw.com/equipment-machinery/construction-equipments/road-construction-equipment/excessive-idle-running-of-diesel-engine-and-the-effects.html
 
The AIS data does support speeding up at the end, so their fuel margin was a little better than listed. Not great, but apparently adequate even with the poor weather.

I would also expect the engines to be a bit unhappy about running under such a light load for so long. But supposedly the owner checked with MAN and they gave it the green light.
 
Leaving aside the fuel leaks, I can’t get past being unable to access the engine room. There are any number of ways that could have been disastrous. I wouldn’t go out for 3 hours without being able to get in the engine room, never mind 3 weeks. But what do I know.
 
twistedtree said:
Good thing they took on as much fuel as they did, considering they arrived with only 100 gal left after what was lost overboard.


And not very bright to publicly proclaim that you dumped a few hundred gallons of fuel in the ocean. That could invite some interesting fines, boat seizure, etc.
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I was wondering about that very thing too. They had to pump the lost fuel overboard, what else could they have done unless they pumped it back into a drum or something. Doesn’t seem to have been mentioned.
 
SeaDogAK said:
Leaving aside the fuel leaks, I can’t get past being unable to access the engine room. There are any number of ways that could have been disastrous. I wouldn’t go out for 3 hours without being able to get in the engine room, never mind 3 weeks. But what do I know.
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Apparently more than Captain Ray
 
rslifkin said:
I would also expect the engines to be a bit unhappy about running under such a light load for so long. But supposedly the owner checked with MAN and they gave it the green light.
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I'm unclear on whether MAN was addressing "idling" or instead "low RPMs."

FWIW, once we reach operating temps, we can (mostly) maintain proper operating temps at around 700 RPMs... assuming decent load from wind/current/etc. I could imagine MAN being OK with that, and that their feedback likely included comments about operating temps.

But we can't really reach operating temps by simply idling (600 RPM). Would have expected MAN wouldn't have recommended that.

-Chris
 
ranger58sb said:
I'm unclear on whether MAN was addressing "idling" or instead "low RPMs."

FWIW, once we reach operating temps, we can (mostly) maintain proper operating temps at around 700 RPMs... assuming decent load from wind/current/etc. I could imagine MAN being OK with that, and that their feedback likely included comments about operating temps.

But we can't really reach operating temps by simply idling (600 RPM). Would have expected MAN wouldn't have recommended that.

-Chris
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Frankly, I don't believe they ever contacted MAN. That would mean they did some decent preventative maintenance in prep for a major crossing. From their description of why the first attempt was aborted - a rusted hose clamp deteriorated and gave way - I just don't think they did that type of maintenance.

The alleged owner stated the boat was in "perfect condition" upon arrival. Capt Ray later divulges they lost 100-200 gals of diesel from all bladders, including the ones in the staterooms that's the equivalent of two to four barrels of diesel!!!! The only way an owner can state that is "perfect condition" is if either (a) it's not the owner but rather someone posing as him (Ray???); or (b) it's the owner but doesn't want to publicly disclose the damages (including possible damage to running 800hp engines for 325 hours at idle) for fear eroding resale value.

Peter
 
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Regarding running a diesel at "idle" or under loaded....

I don't think the MAN engines were running at idle speed but certainly at lower RPMs. One of my questions has been for a given engine, what is the proper load that needs to be run and how does the correspond to RPM? I never have really gotten a good answer to that question.

However, with my truck and tractor(Yanmar) engines I do have some data since I do used oil analysis.

Once upon a time, I had to drive into an urban area that I called The Valley Of Death because of the traffic congestion. The drive time was 45-60 minutes with 15-30 minutes being at idle speed stuck in traffic with 30 minutes or so at 55 mph steady speed. My hope was that the highway speed would take care of any issues caused by sitting in traffic for 15-30 minutes. It might have helped but there is no way to know.

What I do know is that idling in traffic allowed fuel in the engine oil.:nonono: Now, the amount was in the allowable range so no harm, no foul but who wants fuel in the lube oil. :facepalm: Once I stopped driving into The Valley Of Death, the fuel in the oil problem went away. :thumb:

I never idled my tractor engine and ran it mostly at 1600 RPMs unless I was mowing then it was 3200 RPMs. However, I had some fuel in the oil just like the truck. It was in the allowable range, but who wants fuel in the lube oil. :D I solved the problem buy bumping up the RPM to 1800-2000.

My guess is that the MAN engines have fuel in the lube oil. But they won't know unless they do a used oil analysis. The amount of fuel in the oil might be ok but I suspect they have gone over the allowable range. Did that cause any problems? Testing the oil would let them know.
 
Did I read correctly, that they dumped a couple hundred gallons of diesel into the staterooms? How the heck do you ever get that smell out???
 
Mako said:
Did I read correctly, that they dumped a couple hundred gallons of diesel into the staterooms? How the heck do you ever get that smell out???
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The boat carries 565 gals of diesel in fixed tanks. Capt Ray put about 1500 gals in cheap bladders in the toy garage (boat isn't big enough for a true dinghy garage unless you consider the cheap inflatable shown strapped on the aft deck to be a dinghy), guest stateroom, and saloon. And another 350 gals in drums on the back deck. According to his account, all of the bladders leaked a total of 100-200 gals of diesel. I have a 250 gal propane tank so I have an idea of the volume.

How do you get the smell out? According the post purportedly by the owner, there was no smell. Condition of the boat was perfect upon arrival.

Go figure. Something doesn't sound right to me. But no way to know.

Peter.
 
Huh... Who has a 250 gallon propane tank on a small yacht?.... I hope he was trying to relate volume, rather than actual capacity aboard..
 
Yikes!!!! I should have been more careful about mentioning a 250 gal propane tank (500g is also common). Cabin in Colorado with propane tank. I fill it every 10-15 years (summers only - twice a winter when I lived there).

Peter
 
Delfin said:
I cannot imagine doing that trip in that boat. Single bed for all on board, flimsy canvas Bimini, leaking diesel in the living quarters - I'm agog at the sheer stupidity of it all. The fact they made it is great, just as someone going over Niagra Falls in a barrel is great. And about equally brainless an endeavor IMO.

I'd also seriously question the ability of 800 hp Man diesels being happy at idle rpm for two weeks.

www.nbmcw.com/equipment-machinery/c...running-of-diesel-engine-and-the-effects.html
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I own an over the road semi truck that has a million 300 thousand on its 14 liter Cummins plus thousands of hours of idling time from bunking up for the night as well as not being shut down for weeks straight because of cold weather. All original but the heads being refreshed at 900,000

Ride through a truck stop on any given night and 95% of the trucks are idling for their mandatory 10 hour shutdown .

During cold spells you idle up to keep operating Temps but many dont .
 
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Slo-Mocean said:
I own an over the road semi truck that has a million 300 thousand on its 14 liter Cummins plus thousands of hours of idling time from bunking up for the night as well as not being shut down for weeks straight because of cold weather. All original but the heads being refreshed at 900,000

Ride through a truck stop on any given night and 95% of the trucks are idling for their mandatory 10 hour shutdown .
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I'm sure that true, but we're talking not about 10 hours of idling followed by pulling 30 tons of cargo up hills and down. We're talking about 300+ hours at almost no load.

At 1000 rpm the Mans would have each burned around 4gph, getting .5 miles per gallon on one engine. To make it to Hawaii with 2200 gallons of fuel, you need 1 mile per gallon. One engine, idle speed for two weeks solid. The engines would make it, but not without some adverse consequences. The reason why the fuel consumption chart for the 800 Man doesn't go below 1000 rpms might be because it is not smart to run them at lower rpms for weeks at a time
 
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I'm sure the owner is happy the boat arrived, and so am I.

As for the "unknown diesel" we'll only have to wonder eh?

That really doesn't matter though eh? That boat was never designed to make that passage in the first place.

I read a lotta stuff about my boat (IG 44 FAD) making an Atlantic passage. Nice read but I don't know the boat or how they did it. Nice story, but no specifics. I know I have 800 gallons of tank but that's not enough.

Not even thinking about that. Makes me nervous.

Volvo manual advises no prolonged operation under load below 1400 RPM, which is about hull speed for this boat.

I'm sure the boat (my version) had a couple of 120 HP Lehman's (standard) and would have better economy. But still, even with that economy it would have needed extra fuel. I can only imagine barrels strapped to the aft deck rails and trying to siphon or pump into the deck fittings as seas lessened.

Too much adventure for me - :)
 
Delfin said:
I'm sure that true, but we're talking not about 10 hours of idling followed by pulling 30 tons of cargo up hills and down. We're talking about 300+ hours at almost no load.

At 1000 rpm the Mans would have each burned around 4gph, getting .5 miles per gallon on one engine. To make it to Hawaii with 2200 gallons of fuel, you need 1 mile per gallon. One engine, idle speed for two weeks solid. The engines would make it, but not without some adverse consequences. The reason why the fuel consumption chart for the 800 Man doesn't go below 1000 rpms might be because it is not smart to run them at lower rpms for weeks at a time
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300 + hours of a slight load on a diesel is much better than thousands of hours of no load idling. If they had any sense they would run them up daily to blow excess soot out even if they did it in neutral .

On a old mechanical injected diesel you can get cylinder wash and high traces of fuel in oil samples but todays modern diesels the electronic injection is so much more precise you don't have that problem. High Soot and possible carbon buildup is still a possible concern .

My semi truck has a 1997 n-14 Cummins derived from the Big cam Cummins but with the earliest electronic fuel injection added . I have sat on loads with the truck idling for 4-5 days in a row and at its 15,000 mile oil change the samples come back clean.

Soot and carbon buildup would be the only concern.
 
Fascinating thread. Commenting here only to hear more about the condition of the boat as time passes.
 
I would be much more concerned about being on that potential Fire Bomb for 2300 miles , and that would be long before some cheap fuel bladders started leaking into the boat .

I like barbecue but don't like being barbecued .Bigger balls than me.
 
Slo-Mocean said:
I would be much more concerned about being on that potential Fire Bomb for 2300 miles , and that would be long before some cheap fuel bladders started leaking into the boat .

I like barbecue but don't like being barbecued .Bigger balls than me.
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Very common. If it was a gasser there could be additional worries adding additional fuel on deck, but diesel is not that big of a deal. What makes you think bladders are cheap?. A buddy brought a planing boat back from Hawaii
the same way with 55 gallon drums on deck and it was a non event.

Hollywood
 
hollywood8118 said:
Very common. If it was a gasser there could be additional worries adding additional fuel on deck, but diesel is not that big of a deal. What makes you think bladders are cheap?. A buddy brought a planing boat back from Hawaii
the same way with 55 gallon drums on deck and it was a non event.

Hollywood
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I know fuel bladders aren't cheap and have never heard of any failures until this thread, but even disregarding the bladders that is a lot of weight of loose fuel in those barrels in the cockpit .

Regarding the hazard of non explosive diesel fuel , as a over the road trucker I have happened across my fair share of drivers perishing in the cabs of their trucks by fire from their own fuel tanks . Its actually very common these days because of the high temperatures the regenaturive systems operate at that ignites the fuel soon as there is a tank breach. 150-200 gallons of diesel is one hell of a fire, I sit on 300 and it never escapes my mind how quick I can be barbecue.
 
Hi,

Many marine diesel engines have a cooling return line so that the fuel used to power the engine remains stable and the temperature in the tank does not rise above the engine manufacturer's specifications.

This is of course boat specific depending on the engine, tank size, length of lines etc.
 
My boat has four heat exchangers in the raw water cooling circuit for each engine. Fuel, engine oil, trans fluid and compressed air. I am changing all hoses and going through that system this winter. The system is working well.
 
Not to veer off-topic too far here, but the discussion of fuel bladders for a long ocean passage in a small boat makes me think about the possible chain of failures. The risks were not solely about the failure of the bladders themselves, but about the repeated g-force loading on the surrounding decks, stringers, bulkheads and hull sides. Cockpits and internal compartments are designed to stay rigid and remain attached with the normal weight of passengers, crew and associated gear. A 200 gallon (for example) bladder full of diesel weighs approx. 1420#. Statistically, that equals the weight of 7.8 American adults.

Consider that gravitational weight, in one location, accelerating and decelerating repeatedly every few moments for days on end as the vessel moves up, down and sideways through waves and swells. Recreational boats are typically not designed for that sort of adventuring. Certain skippers I know have discovered that fact the hard way.

Just like with engines, fuel tanks are placed where the surrounding structure has been designed to handle their weight under all foreseeable loading conditions, not just at the dock.

Like everyone, I'm relieved that this Sunseeker motor yacht and its crew survived their ambitious trip. But the wear and tear on that Sunseeker might include structural stresses that are not easily visible or "smellable." Best wishes and good luck to its owner, but I personally would want nothing to do with that boat after its crossing to Hawaii.
 
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