Question On Govt Checks

[JLD]

I am so glad that I procrastinated on doing my taxes this year!

As I get closer to retirement, I have started shifting some of our monies around, including making the first withdrawal (in 2019) from my retirement account. The withdrawal counts as income and would have pushed our 2019 adjusted gross income above the stimulus limit for a check. Since I haven't yet filed for 2019, Treasury will use our 2018 income instead!

Jim

 

[backinblue]

I am so glad that I procrastinated on doing my taxes this year!

As I get closer to retirement, I have started shifting some of our monies around, including making the first withdrawal (in 2019) from my retirement account. The withdrawal counts as income and would have pushed our 2019 adjusted gross income above the stimulus limit for a check. Since I haven't yet filed for 2019, Treasury will use our 2018 income instead!

Jim

Don't be quite so sure. Yes you will get a check, but the check is not a gift, it's a credit against your 2020 income taxes. So when you do your 2019 taxes, if your income is above the limit, you may have to pay some of that back in your 2020 return. You do have until July to max out any IRA deductions for 2019 if that helps, at least on paper.

 

[BandB]

Don't be quite so sure. Yes you will get a check, but the check is not a gift, it's a credit against your 2020 income taxes. So when you do your 2019 taxes, if your income is above the limit, you may have to pay some of that back in your 2020 return. You do have until July to max out any IRA deductions for 2019 if that helps, at least on paper.

My understanding is that there is no clawback provision this time. It's not like prior stimulus. What you get it what you get. Forbes said you could consider it a math error. But seriously, it's a credit but separate from your taxes themselves.

 

[tn6437]

checks

Don't count on seeing that money before 7/15. The Treasury Dept does not have enough paper stock or printing capacity to issue the number of checks that need to go out. And never mind the extensive programming and system testing (paper or direct deposit) that is required and all with very scarce IRS resources due to years of budget cuts all in the midst of the filing season which has been extended. This will be a mess. Folks will be back to work long before that money is disbursed.

the vast majority of people getting "checks" will not get checks but will get direct deposits, therefore there won't be printing problems. the other thing is those on social security will just see a one time increase in their checks.

 

[tn6437]

mandatory withdrawal of retirement funds

I am so glad that I procrastinated on doing my taxes this year!

As I get closer to retirement, I have started shifting some of our monies around, including making the first withdrawal (in 2019) from my retirement account. The withdrawal counts as income and would have pushed our 2019 adjusted gross income above the stimulus limit for a check. Since I haven't yet filed for 2019, Treasury will use our 2018 income instead!

Jim

the cares act includes a provision that allows you to not withdraw funds as was previously required.

 

[BruceK]

Interesting. I got an email from my accountant telling me I could recover the 2 quarterly tax instalments already paid and suspend the remaining 2 of my 2019-20 tax. Instead I pay the tax when the tax return gets lodged, likely in Feb21. It asked for my bank a/c details for the refund, unaware of this and wondering, I called my accountant to confirm it was her email and not a phishing trick,and it`s true,it`s part of the Govt stimulus program.

 

[JLD]

the cares act includes a provision that allows you to not withdraw funds as was previously required.

Could you please elaborate on this statement?

The act addresses “coronavirus-related distribution” from an IRA and other types of accounts, but I don't see anything that addresses "normal" age-based withdrawals, after the age of 59 1/2.

Such withdrawals are usually treated as income, and Federal taxes are paid for the tax year they were withdrawn.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[backinblue]

I don't think anything changed if you are 59 1/2. The change was to eliminate the penalty if you are younger and need to make a withdrawal.

 

[menzies]

See here.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s75/cares-act-49963.html

 

[syjos]

Got Our Stimulus Check

Our $2,400 stimulus was deposited into our checking account a few minutes along with Social Security.

We filed our tax return early March and received a small refund at the beginning of April.

IRS deposited the stimulus on April 15!

Life is great!

 

[menzies]

Our $2,400 stimulus was deposited into our checking account a few minutes along with Social Security.

We filed our tax return early March and received a small refund at the beginning of April.

IRS deposited the stimulus on April 15!

Life is great!

Hey that's MY money!!!

 

[syjos]

Hey that's MY money!!!

Oh sorry. I'll wire transfer it to your account immediately.

Send me your account number, date of birth and social security number.

 

[menzies]

Oh sorry. I'll wire transfer it to your account immediately.

Send me your account number, date of birth and social security number.

Never mind all that nonsense, just PayPal it to my email address!

 

[Mako]

Yep just received mine today as well [emoji846]

 

[syjos]

Government checks, Government checks yea, yea, Government Checks

No place to spend, no place to go, but heck, I'll think about it on the deck

 

[Russell Clifton]

Got our checks today also. Thank God I did not have to see Trump's name on mine!!

 

[menzies]

Got our checks today also. Thank God I did not have to see Trump's name on mine!!

Yeah, what on Earth is that all about?

 

[catalinajack]

And how is it that you know that the IRS is a tangled, patched mess? Do you work there in IT? Do you even know the difference between software and operating systems? For the record, I worked there for 38 years, including the last five in systems design and deveopment. IRS has many inter-related systems all of which work as intended, year after year. They are not tangled and they are not a patched mess. They do, however, need to be maintained and re-coded (programmed) to account for year-over-year changes and for implementing new laws or changes to laws. Ensuring that the filing season goes smoothly each year is an effort that requires a 24-hour immediate response in the event, and it happens, that a processing problem arises which, by the way, happens in all business systems. Yet, the IRS has NEVER experienced a stoppage in processing tax returns and getting refunds out to taxpayers. It's because of knowledgable, dedicated employees who know what they are doing.

Here's a question for you. Take consider the Apple IOS operating system, which, for many folks, is considered a perfect operating system. Yet, IOS is now on their 13th version and, along, the way, many security flaws have been identified. And, how many big businesses have had their systems breached, Target, for example, and one of the credit reporting agencies. IRS, in contrast, has never had a system breach. Bad design? Tangled, patched mess? Nope.

" I know the IRS software is a tangled, patched mess."


The Essence of Force and Fraud,

 

[JLD]

Well no direct deposit for us, as aside from social security recipients, you only get a direct deposit IF you have received a REFUND from the IRS in 2018 and 2019.

We always overpaid our federal taxes and got refunds, but when they made the tax changes in 2018, our 2018 tax obligation changed from getting money back to having to pay money. So despite the fact that I have had the same savings/checking accounts for 45 years and have used these accounts for many years (the last being 2017) for our refunds, AND made a direct payment in 2018 to the IRS FROM my checking account, no direct deposit for us.

I can accept the fact that the IRS is using 2018/2019 data, but what I don't accept is that you can set up a personal account at the IRS website, look at some of your tax data, request copies of other records, BUT you can't enter your bank information if you had filed a return for 2018/19.

Jim

 

[menzies]

Well no direct deposit for us, as aside from social security recipients, you only get a direct deposit IF you have received a REFUND from the IRS in 2018 and 2019.

We always overpaid our federal taxes and got refunds, but when they made the tax changes in 2018, our 2018 tax obligation changed from getting money back to having to pay money. So despite the fact that I have had the same savings/checking accounts for 45 years and have used these accounts for many years (the last being 2017) for our refunds, AND made a direct payment in 2018 to the IRS FROM my checking account, no direct deposit for us.

I can accept the fact that the IRS is using 2018/2019 data, but what I don't accept is that you can set up a personal account at the IRS website, look at some of your tax data, request copies of other records, BUT you can't enter your bank information if you had filed a return for 2018/19.

Jim

https://home.treasury.gov/news/pres...rPAxs6Et5iD_NpicAbOIe-p7DbcNKGzf0NAGb0nNAClyg

 

[catalinajack]

JLD, not true that one had to have received a refund. For those who had a balance due and elected to have the IRS directly debit an account, IRS will have the account information to which to send the stimulus money. Tons of bad info floating around.

Well no direct deposit for us, as aside from social security recipients, you only get a direct deposit IF you have received a REFUND from the IRS in 2018 and 2019.

We always overpaid our federal taxes and got refunds, but when they made the tax changes in 2018, our 2018 tax obligation changed from getting money back to having to pay money. So despite the fact that I have had the same savings/checking accounts for 45 years and have used these accounts for many years (the last being 2017) for our refunds, AND made a direct payment in 2018 to the IRS FROM my checking account, no direct deposit for us.

I can accept the fact that the IRS is using 2018/2019 data, but what I don't accept is that you can set up a personal account at the IRS website, look at some of your tax data, request copies of other records, BUT you can't enter your bank information if you had filed a return for 2018/19.

Jim

 

[JLD]

JLD, not true that one had to have received a refund. For those who had a balance due and elected to have the IRS directly debit an account, IRS will have the account information to which to send the stimulus money. Tons of bad info floating around.

One would think so, but this information from previous years apparently isn't being used.

I would like to hear from anyone who has successfully added their bank information for the direct deposit. I spend an hour on the IRS website this afternoon, clicking whatever I could find connected to the "Get my Account" page AND I set up a profile/account and could NOT find a place to enter this data. You can enter your bank information as a non-filer if you did NOT file in 2018, but there is no place that I could find to add this information if you filed in 2018 and made a payment.

Here is one of the IRS Q&A's that I found:
"If Get My Payment is unavailable, will Where’s My Refund or View Your Account allow me to provide my bank information?

No, Where’s My Refund and View Your Account will not allow you to provide your bank information for purposes of your payment. Get My Payment is the only option available to enter your bank information to receive your payment through direct deposit instead of by mail if your payment has not already been scheduled. If Get My Payment is not available at the time you access it, you will need to try again later."

Jim

 

[syjos]

Go to the link at the bottom of post 51 and it will take you to the instructions for provide banking information to the IRS

 

[JLD]

Go to the link at the bottom of post 51 and it will take you to the instructions for provide banking information to the IRS

Thanks, but did you update your bank information?

When I complete the information after the "Get my Payment" tab, I get the dreaded error message:

"Payment Status Not Available
According to information that we have on file, we cannot determine your eligibility for a payment at this time.

For more information on the eligibility rules, see our Frequently Asked Questions page."

Then, from the FAQs, the applicable Q&A is the one I noted in post #53. The information page that I get after you click the "Get my Payment" tab, does not have a field for entering your bank information.

It is possible that my payment has already been scheduled. If that's the case, it could be next week, next month, next August. If the IRS is going to snail mail me the check, that is just dumb, as I tried to enter the bank information as soon as the portal went live.

Jim

 

[Woodland Hills]

I guess they need more help, only 74,454 Full-time equivalent, 2019

Yes. I agree they are understaffed, for instance the audit department could use another 20,000 more to keep up. How are you going to catch the cheats and how will you get voluntary compliance if you don’t audit enough to let the public know they have a good chance of getting caught if they play games? This is one part of government that needs to be fully staffed with the best people and equipment.

 

[BandB]

And how is it that you know that the IRS is a tangled, patched mess? Do you work there in IT? Do you even know the difference between software and operating systems? For the record, I worked there for 38 years, including the last five in systems design and deveopment. IRS has many inter-related systems all of which work as intended, year after year. They are not tangled and they are not a patched mess. They do, however, need to be maintained and re-coded (programmed) to account for year-over-year changes and for implementing new laws or changes to laws. Ensuring that the filing season goes smoothly each year is an effort that requires a 24-hour immediate response in the event, and it happens, that a processing problem arises which, by the way, happens in all business systems. Yet, the IRS has NEVER experienced a stoppage in processing tax returns and getting refunds out to taxpayers. It's because of knowledgable, dedicated employees who know what they are doing.

Here's a question for you. Take consider the Apple IOS operating system, which, for many folks, is considered a perfect operating system. Yet, IOS is now on their 13th version and, along, the way, many security flaws have been identified. And, how many big businesses have had their systems breached, Target, for example, and one of the credit reporting agencies. IRS, in contrast, has never had a system breach. Bad design? Tangled, patched mess? Nope.

What the IRS does have to deal with is much the same as any large entity that has been in operation for decades. The mix of legacy systems and coding with newer ones and patches and updates along the way. We once acquired a company that had all it's operating software in a language no one on their staff understood or could code, so all problems were handled by a local contractor. Fortunately, we did have some people who had been around a long time and were quite comfortable in it. I once interviewed a high level TVA IT professional, but in all his years there he'd done nothing but their purchasing and accounts payable system.

My favorite IRS challenge has been when Congress was slow to pass a bill and made the change retroactive which meant it applied to everyone who had already filed.

Now the IRS has actually had breaches much like the Target breach. They had a breach in 2015 of their "Get Transcript" page. Then the IRS followed with special pins and the "Get ID Pin" page was then hacked. Now, easy to understand when you know that they use Equifax's KBA (Knowledge Based Authentication) System and we all know about Equifax's breaches. So, breach from a front end developed by someone else. IRS was quick also to identify the breach.

Also, the IRS had a breach of their Data Retrieval Tool which allowed access to the information of 100,000 students applying for student aid. In this one, the estimate is that using that information to file fraudulent returns resulted in a loss of $30 million.

No one is perfect. IRS has a very capable and very large IT staff. A little uniqueness in that things are always changing with huge changes some years. The nearest thing businesses encounter are price changes and payroll tax and employee benefit changes. Every tax change means every business has to reprogram payroll taxes, although many use outside firms for that software.

You're right that they've not had any processing lapses and delays other than waiting for tax laws to be passed. In today's world, most businesses don't encounter them either.

The IRS must have some skill to be able to react to the whims of their bosses, the congress of clowns, who might insert anything imaginable into a tax law. How about special rules for race tracks. Ok, done. Working for a bunch who have no idea and don't care how much work their little favor for someone might require you to do.

 

[catalinajack]

What the IRS does have to deal with is much the same as any large entity that has been in operation for decades. The mix of legacy systems and coding with newer ones and patches and updates along the way. We once acquired a company that had all it's operating software in a language no one on their staff understood or could code, so all problems were handled by a local contractor. Fortunately, we did have some people who had been around a long time and were quite comfortable in it. I once interviewed a high level TVA IT professional, but in all his years there he'd done nothing but their purchasing and accounts payable system.

My favorite IRS challenge has been when Congress was slow to pass a bill and made the change retroactive which meant it applied to everyone who had already filed.

Now the IRS has actually had breaches much like the Target breach. They had a breach in 2015 of their "Get Transcript" page. Then the IRS followed with special pins and the "Get ID Pin" page was then hacked. Now, easy to understand when you know that they use Equifax's KBA (Knowledge Based Authentication) System and we all know about Equifax's breaches. So, breach from a front end developed by someone else. IRS was quick also to identify the breach.

Also, the IRS had a breach of their Data Retrieval Tool which allowed access to the information of 100,000 students applying for student aid. In this one, the estimate is that using that information to file fraudulent returns resulted in a loss of $30 million.

No one is perfect. IRS has a very capable and very large IT staff. A little uniqueness in that things are always changing with huge changes some years. The nearest thing businesses encounter are price changes and payroll tax and employee benefit changes. Every tax change means every business has to reprogram payroll taxes, although many use outside firms for that software.

You're right that they've not had any processing lapses and delays other than waiting for tax laws to be passed. In today's world, most businesses don't encounter them either.

The IRS must have some skill to be able to react to the whims of their bosses, the congress of clowns, who might insert anything imaginable into a tax law. How about special rules for race tracks. Ok, done. Working for a bunch who have no idea and don't care how much work their little favor for someone might require you to do.

BandB: Quite correct on the breaches you mentioned. However, there has never been a breach of the firewalls to the mainframes where all of the good stuff resides. By the way, the examples you cited were from systems outside of the mainframe environment. IRS insiders had counseled against developing those tools but were overridden by idiots.

Oh, and remember our exchange where I posited that the issuance of these funds was not going to be an easy task for IRS to execute? Well, turns out I was correct. I agreed with you that the arithmetic is simple but that was only the start. As I tried to tell you and it is turning out to be the case, the systems involved, integrating data from multiple sources, the lack of data, this was all going to make for a colossal mess to sort out. That was the point I was trying to make. At the end, IRS will be blamed again for ineptitude. Just goes with the territory. As far as the very large and capable IRS IT staff, that was once true, not so much anymore. That is why the outside contractors have become essential to ongoing operations. The company I worked for hired away gobs of retirement-eligible staff. The fact is, the folks most knowledgeable of IRS systems now work for outside contractors. IRS does still have staff - also nearing retirement - that are expert in their individual systems but there is no one at IRS who understands the inter-relationships of multiple systems. A change in one can have profound effects on other systems. Again, this is part of the reason I said doing this big money distribution was/is a huge task for the IRS. It was never going to be a simple change in some values in a look-up table. That was always the simple part.

The company you acquired, I am curious, what languages was it that staff did not understand and certainly could not code? The Social Security Administration still, to this day, uses ALC and COBOL as does the IRS. It may be ancient but damn if it doesn't work. IRS has been updating some ancillary systems using Java but the mainframes, the heart of processing, the processing that has delivered successful filing seasons year after year is still 1960's architecture.

 

[JLD]

So here is an update from the IRS website for folks trying to change their banking information because they made a payment and did not get a refund:

"Update your bank account or mailing address

If we don’t have your direct deposit information from your 2018 or 2019 return – and we haven’t yet sent your payment – use the Get My Payment application to let us know where to send your direct deposit.
2019 Filers: We will send your payment using the information you provided with your 2019 tax return. You will not be able to change it.
2018 Filers: If you need to change your account information or mailing address, file your 2019 taxes electronically as soon as possible. That is the only way to let us know your new information.

Note: We are not currently able to process individual paper tax returns due to the COVID-19 outbreak."

So, it looks like we will be waiting for a paper check to arrive in the mail.

Jim

 

[BandB]

BandB: Quite correct on the breaches you mentioned. However, there has never been a breach of the firewalls to the mainframes where all of the good stuff resides. By the way, the examples you cited were from systems outside of the mainframe environment. IRS insiders had counseled against developing those tools but were overridden by idiots.

Oh, and remember our exchange where I posited that the issuance of these funds was not going to be an easy task for IRS to execute? Well, turns out I was correct. I agreed with you that the arithmetic is simple but that was only the start. As I tried to tell you and it is turning out to be the case, the systems involved, integrating data from multiple sources, the lack of data, this was all going to make for a colossal mess to sort out. That was the point I was trying to make. At the end, IRS will be blamed again for ineptitude. Just goes with the territory. As far as the very large and capable IRS IT staff, that was once true, not so much anymore. That is why the outside contractors have become essential to ongoing operations. The company I worked for hired away gobs of retirement-eligible staff. The fact is, the folks most knowledgeable of IRS systems now work for outside contractors. IRS does still have staff - also nearing retirement - that are expert in their individual systems but there is no one at IRS who understands the inter-relationships of multiple systems. A change in one can have profound effects on other systems. Again, this is part of the reason I said doing this big money distribution was/is a huge task for the IRS. It was never going to be a simple change in some values in a look-up table. That was always the simple part.

The company you acquired, I am curious, what languages was it that staff did not understand and certainly could not code? The Social Security Administration still, to this day, uses ALC and COBOL as does the IRS. It may be ancient but damn if it doesn't work. IRS has been updating some ancillary systems using Java but the mainframes, the heart of processing, the processing that has delivered successful filing seasons year after year is still 1960's architecture.

But the breaches in Target and elsewhere were similar front end systems.

As far as I can tell, the only issue IRS has really faced isn't really theirs but is check printing. Now typically, a website was spoken of before it was ready. Most anyone I know with direct deposit set up has received their payment and many of those getting checks. I do see another issue and that is where the 2018 return information on bank account is no longer correct, such as incidents of divorce. Hopefully they're cross referencing social security for death records.

And the language was one of the forms of Assembler, I'm not sure exactly which one now. Birkbeck, I believe.

The expertise now in the hands of outside contractors is the issue we ran into in the acquisition.

COBOL is old but still very widespread use. I saw percentages recently of the high percentage of banking still done on it and I know many large corporations. IRS and Social Security are far from alone and really no compelling reason to be bothered by it. I know there's been a lot of argument over colleges not teaching it and some have gone back to offering as an elective mainly because it pays their graduates. Younger IT students have to be reminded that most of the largest enterprises, business and government, are not operating in clouds and using Javascript. I regret never taking a single programming course.

 

[JLD]

So here is an update from the IRS website for folks trying to change their banking information because they made a payment and did not get a refund:

"Update your bank account or mailing address

If we don’t have your direct deposit information from your 2018 or 2019 return – and we haven’t yet sent your payment – use the Get My Payment application to let us know where to send your direct deposit.
2019 Filers: We will send your payment using the information you provided with your 2019 tax return. You will not be able to change it.
2018 Filers: If you need to change your account information or mailing address, file your 2019 taxes electronically as soon as possible. That is the only way to let us know your new information.

Note: We are not currently able to process individual paper tax returns due to the COVID-19 outbreak."

So, it looks like we will be waiting for a paper check to arrive in the mail.

Jim

Could be the first time I ever quoted myself in a thread!

It looks like the IRS has made some additional changes over the weekend.

If you have not yet filed your taxes for 2019, your can NOW enter your banking information if you made a payment with you 2018 filing!
I entered our banking info a few minutes ago.

I don't know why this was not part of the original roll-out as it get monies into the economy quicker, and for every taxpayer bank information entered, there is one less check the IRS has to prepare and mail.

Jim