pulpit recoring cost

[DougD]

You're welcome for the info. Unfortunately it's precisely this deck/core area under and around the pulpit that supports the anchor loads. The fact that some of the fasteners are pulling through the underside suggests this area is very weak. It's fine to do nothing but I would not suggest anchoring or mooring until this is repaired.

 

[Action]

Some clarity - do you own the boat or are you in the process of buying?

Other questions
Depending on how you define later .... days/weeks or months/years.

Not sure how you are going to determine the structural strength without subjecting the pulpit to destructive testing. If the pulpit does not hold up to a stress test, what other damage will occur?

And let's say that you determine the structure is strong enough now, how much later is the structure not strong enough?

Preventing more water from getting in does not stop the rot from progressing. The water/moisture that is already in there will continue to create more rot by migrating in the wood. This just escalates the effort and cost of the repair, when the repair is started.

This vessel has two known soft areas. What is not known is how extensive underneath the fiberglass the rot extends. And are there any more areas where there are penetrations beyond the fiberglass that have allowed water into the structure? Windows, rails or ????

 

[paulga]

Some clarity - do you own the boat or are you in the process of buying?

Other questions
Depending on how you define later .... days/weeks or months/years.

Not sure how you are going to determine the structural strength without subjecting the pulpit to destructive testing. If the pulpit does not hold up to a stress test, what other damage will occur?

And let's say that you determine the structure is strong enough now, how much later is the structure not strong enough?

Preventing more water from getting in does not stop the rot from progressing. The water/moisture that is already in there will continue to create more rot by migrating in the wood. This just escalates the effort and cost of the repair, when the repair is started.

This vessel has two known soft areas. What is not known is how extensive underneath the fiberglass the rot extends. And are there any more areas where there are penetrations beyond the fiberglass that have allowed water into the structure? Windows, rails or ????

those are all the problematic areas near the anchor identified in the survey - high moisture in the wood underside pulpit and near foot switch, delamination in the aft of pulpit. (there are two other wet deck areas as specified in my other post)

it would cost a small fortune to do these as one project by the yard. if this is the way to go, I'd consider DIY as much as possible.

 

[Action]

Not sure of the sales price (and I am not asking you to disclose) I would be asking for a significant discount or move on to a different boat.

I am not yet ready to buy. That will come in a couple of years for me. I am a DYI guy from way back on cars and homes. However, I am starting to feel my age even though I don't act it. The kind of repairs needed for this boat are beyond what I would want to do. (I think I COULD do it, I just don't want to do that much) The difference would be a drop in price of many thousands of dollars (thinking 10) to offset the money I would be paying a professional. I get that the actual cost of repair is really unknown. And the likelihood of a greater repair needed after opened up is very possible. However, the seller is going to have the same issues to deal with on a different buyer.

Without a significant price drop, I would be walking. Even if I paid a grand to get to this place. You state it would be a small fortune. It will be a small fortune no matter how the repair is handled. Even if you did the repair your labor has some value. You did not create the problem.

 

[paulga]

Thanks. Based on the trawlers I have visited since 2018, there is not a perfect one. there was a boat that had top notch equipment and system, airex core deck and seemed to be problem free, the size or layout does not work.

I can enjoy DIY projects, here the challenge the project likely requires some pro tools and a workbench that I dont have. I'll hear more advice from professionals to get an idea how much I can do in these repairs

 

[Action]

Perfection is an illusion that does not exist in the marine environment. (or several other fields)

Not sure how the decking looks around the sliding door or if there is another area. Those areas that are of finish quality may best be done by professional.

In any case if you are moving forward with the purchase, this would be a big negotiating point.

Good luck

 

[Comodave]

How should the foot swtich be installed appropriately? I'm thinking to reseal the switch.

Go to marinehowto.com!!! There is an excellent article on how to properly bed things on deck.

From your description on this and another thread, if it were me I would invest in the needed tools and spend some time learning how to recore a deck. Boatworks Today has some excellent videos and I am sure Utube has some also. You are looking at potentially $10 to $20K in core work. It is fabulously expensive to have a yard do the work. And then I would wonder did they do it properly? The tools are not that expensive. Look at West epoxy website and they have a lot of information. Recoring a deck is hard physical work, on your knees, etc. But it isn’t rocket science. Doing the backing for the pulpit would be doable from underneath but the other places not so much. There will be bulkheads and headliner in the way. So I would bite the bullet and do the work from above. Yes, you will have to refinish the deck topside, but it can be done. On our last boat the PO had some deck recoring done. They didn’t finish it properly, they took the quick and dirty way out. So the repairs started showing. I sanded off the nonskid and did proper repairs to the deck and then used Kiwigrip to paint the deck. It covers small imperfections and gives an outstanding nonskid finish. Easy to use, it is a latex paint but it wears like iron.

I don’t know your particular situation. Are you physically capable of doing work on your knees? I used to be but can’t do as much as I used to…. Can you afford to spend $10K plus on the decks having someone else do the work? It needs to be done because it will keep spreading. If you can do the work yourself you will save thousands and thousands of dollars. I would guess that the materials wouldn’t cost over $2K. But it might be less or a bit more depending on how much you have to do. The tools would probably be less than $1K and then you would have them for future work. And you could say “I did the work myself “. That should give you some satisfaction.

 

[Comodave]

Perfection is an illusion that does not exist in the marine environment. (or several other fields)

Not sure how the decking looks around the sliding door or if there is another area. Those areas that are of finish quality may best be done by professional.

In any case if you are moving forward with the purchase, this would be a big negotiating point.

Good luck

I thought he said he already bought the boat. Not absolutely sure though.

 

[Action]

I thought he said he already bought the boat. Not absolutely sure though.

Not sure we have clarity on that.

 

[paulga]

I have 8 hours per weekends for this and would enjoy the work when I know how to. so the immediate question is how to seal the bow, or the recessed area and the sliding door from weather in between the sessions.

Below is the high level sequence of the pulpit work that I imagine. Please shed light on the details and correct where I'm wrong.


Those nuts on the pulpit bolts may need to come off first from the rode locker. the V berth looks like below, so the upper shelf serves as a platform for one to lie down with head into the locker. I'd then measure the nuts to order some sockets. with the nuts off, the anchor chain, gypsy, windlass, sampson post need to be disassembled, somehow fix the two anchors on forward deck. Remove the pulpit module (at some point I need to seal the bow before dark)



Order a new core plate and have a shop to cut to fit the pulpit. Recore pulpit using epoxy and stuff.

work from the rode locker to recore the deck area right underside the pulpit (the rectangler area that is thicker than both sides -- is this area and its two sides supposed to be one piece of wood?), cut out the rot inside and replace with a material that does not rot



at the same time use percussion test to mark the boundary of the bad area (near foot switch and aft of pulpit), sand down the gel coat, fiberglass, cut out the rotten wood, replace with good core, then reglass and restore the surface (a shop may need to work on the final finish to match the surrounding look)

Put everything back, reseal windlass, reinstall with a backing plate, reinstall foot switch properly. seal all gaps.

Some clarity - do you own the boat or are you in the process of buying?

Other questions
Depending on how you define later .... days/weeks or months/years.

Not sure how you are going to determine the structural strength without subjecting the pulpit to destructive testing. If the pulpit does not hold up to a stress test, what other damage will occur?

And let's say that you determine the structure is strong enough now, how much later is the structure not strong enough?

Preventing more water from getting in does not stop the rot from progressing. The water/moisture that is already in there will continue to create more rot by migrating in the wood. This just escalates the effort and cost of the repair, when the repair is started.

This vessel has two known soft areas. What is not known is how extensive underneath the fiberglass the rot extends. And are there any more areas where there are penetrations beyond the fiberglass that have allowed water into the structure? Windows, rails or ????

Go to marinehowto.com!!! There is an excellent article on how to properly bed things on deck.

From your description on this and another thread, if it were me I would invest in the needed tools and spend some time learning how to recore a deck. Boatworks Today has some excellent videos and I am sure Utube has some also. You are looking at potentially $10 to $20K in core work. It is fabulously expensive to have a yard do the work. And then I would wonder did they do it properly? The tools are not that expensive. Look at West epoxy website and they have a lot of information. Recoring a deck is hard physical work, on your knees, etc. But it isn’t rocket science. Doing the backing for the pulpit would be doable from underneath but the other places not so much. There will be bulkheads and headliner in the way. So I would bite the bullet and do the work from above. Yes, you will have to refinish the deck topside, but it can be done. On our last boat the PO had some deck recoring done. They didn’t finish it properly, they took the quick and dirty way out. So the repairs started showing. I sanded off the nonskid and did proper repairs to the deck and then used Kiwigrip to paint the deck. It covers small imperfections and gives an outstanding nonskid finish. Easy to use, it is a latex paint but it wears like iron.

I don’t know your particular situation. Are you physically capable of doing work on your knees? I used to be but can’t do as much as I used to…. Can you afford to spend $10K plus on the decks having someone else do the work? It needs to be done because it will keep spreading. If you can do the work yourself you will save thousands and thousands of dollars. I would guess that the materials wouldn’t cost over $2K. But it might be less or a bit more depending on how much you have to do. The tools would probably be less than $1K and then you would have them for future work. And you could say “I did the work myself “. That should give you some satisfaction.

 

[Comodave]

First question, did you actually buy the boat in question?
Do you have any tools now?

There is nothing wrong with using plywood as the backing in the rope locker, just seal it up with epoxy. Then when you reinstall the windlass use the directions on marinehowto.com. The plywood should be fine as long as you protect it correctly.

I would get the tools necessary. Here is a list to start with but I may forget some so others can chime in with them. I like using battery operated power tools so I don’t have to drag power cables around. I like Ridgid tools because they have a lifetime warranty if you register them online within 90 days of purchase.

Circular saw
Jig saw
Multi-tool
Drill
Driver
Basic set of mechanics tools, sockets, wrenches, etc
Dual action sander
Epoxy and fiberglass tools and supplies
Shop vac


There are a lot of other tools that are nice to have. My wife says I have never met a tool that I didn’t need…

 

[SteveK]

Some clarity - do you own the boat or are you in the process of buying?

.............................................

This is a very good question, yet remains unanswered after several asks.
IMO, Paulga, you do not have the experience to understand the answers given.
Unless you actually bought the boat and followed the suggestions, none of them matter as we will never know how it turned out.

 

[Comodave]

Agreed, he needs to do some research on the websites mentioned above. Then he will be more able to see what we are talking about.

 

[paulga]

I have accepted the boat.
I'm considering to attend some power boat courses while get some repairs done before moving the boat home.

 

[paulga]

is this article you are referring to as directions on reinstall windlass?Sealing Deck Penetrations To Prevent Core Rot - Marine How To

I searched for specific articles e.g. how to remove pulpit from a marine trader trawler but the most relevant video is

 

[Comodave]

No, I haven’t seen that one. There are videos on Boatworks Today that show recoring. As to removing the pulpit I would just start by removing the windlass and then see what hardware there is left holding the pulpit on. Pull any hardware and then start prying the pulpit off. There will probably be caulking under it that will tend to hold it on. You may be able to cut the caulk with a utility knife or you may just have to pry it over time. The caulk may stretch with prying and wedges under the pulpit. Pry and insert wedges and let it sit with tension on it. The caulk will usually stretch and eventually give way. Unless someone used the dreded 5200 on it. Then heat, Debond and wedges will maybe help get it loose.

 

[BruceK]

I have 8 hours per weekends for this and would enjoy the work when I know how to. so the immediate question is how to seal the bow, or the recessed area and the sliding door from weather in between the sessions...."


A shipwright recoring the walk around decks of a 40ft Clipper(think PT41) on the marina built a sort of tubular tent over the decks to protect the area. I think he cut out the top f/g layer to relay later, after removing all the loose teak offcuts making up the core sandwich and laying a fresh core. Took 3-4 weeks to do, great job though.
It`s looking like a major project on the 2 deck and "pulpit" areas. The job of fiber glassing above your head while lying on your back isn`t nice. You do need got to fix the damp areas and to stop the water entry feeding the rot so they don`t extend.
I suggest checking the fuel tank top under the leak/soft area at the stbd entry door, get it early it may be fixable.
Leaks around foot switches are common but troublesome. A good polyurethane sealant in a well prepared and cleaned area should seal it, removing the rot and replacing the core will give you that. I like using a finger rather than a forceful foot to actuate the switch

Good luck with it, don`t lose heart,going to be plenty of 8 hour work periods to put in.

 

[paulga]

Is the boat on land and the tent covers the entire boat to avoid the rain seeping in? if I work on it the boat would be in water. 40 ft may be too long to find something like a car cover.

with the pulpit removed, is it possible to remove the deck core from above instead of from the rode locker. in this way do you still need to do fiberglass in the locker from underside?

I have 8 hours per weekends for this and would enjoy the work when I know how to. so the immediate question is how to seal the bow, or the recessed area and the sliding door from weather in between the sessions...."


A shipwright recoring the walk around decks of a 40ft Clipper(think PT41) on the marina built a sort of tubular tent over the decks to protect the area. I think he cut out the top f/g layer to relay later, after removing all the loose teak offcuts making up the core sandwich and laying a fresh core. Took 3-4 weeks to do, great job though.
It`s looking like a major project on the 2 deck and "pulpit" areas. The job of fiber glassing above your head while lying on your back isn`t nice. You do need got to fix the damp areas and to stop the water entry feeding the rot so they don`t extend.
I suggest checking the fuel tank top under the leak/soft area at the stbd entry door, get it early it may be fixable.
Leaks around foot switches are common but troublesome. A good polyurethane sealant in a well prepared and cleaned area should seal it, removing the rot and replacing the core will give you that. I like using a finger rather than a forceful foot to actuate the switch

Good luck with it, don`t lose heart,going to be plenty of 8 hour work periods to put in.

 

[paulga]

Plywood will rot, not doubt.
The strength isn’t in the core, it’s the structure. The layers make the strength. Like a truss.

the area in the middle that is thicker looks to be the critical part to support the anchor. was the entire core (the middle part and the areas around it, including the foot switch area and the aft area) initially molded as one piece, epoxied and laid upon the bow bulkhead (the wall at the end of the photo)?

now the idea is to remove the rotten core in the middle and replace with a starboard/acrylic. the new core will only be glued to the top layer with epoxy. pulpit is then bolted to this new core and windlass on top on the pulpit also bolted to the core (the backing plate is likely also supported only by this area). Could the windlass pull the entire new core away in a storm?

 

[Comodave]

That isn’t a good application for Starboard. The epoxy will not stick to it. Also if you bolt to it the bolts can squeeze it and it will deform over time. Use something structural like plywood.

 

[BruceK]

Is the boat on land and the tent covers the entire boat to avoid the rain seeping in? if I work on it the boat would be in water. 40 ft may be too long to find something like a car cover.

with the pulpit removed, is it possible to remove the deck core from above instead of from the rode locker. in this way do you still need to do fiberglass in the locker from underside?

I was done with the boat in its marina berth. I didn`t go onboard to see how it was secured, it wasn`t covering the whole boat, just the side decks.

If you do the 2 areas(counting "pulpit" and deck switch areas as one) separately you may be able to protect them. Doing the work in small "bites" may be easier on you.

I`m no shipwright but I think "work from below" is to avoid disturbing and replacing the external finish. If you accept that, working from above becomes an option.

 

[DBG8492]

"Tenting"

You can get very creative with a large heavy duty tarp, some PVC pipe, and some bungee cord.

Served us well when doing the outside refinish work on the deck of our old sailboat - and it's likely a trick we will use again while on the hard in our trawler.

PVC is easy to get, cheap, and very easy to work with for creating a frame.

However, once built it isn't likely to stand up to a lot of wind so it helps to build it out in a fashion that lends itself to easy installation and removal of the cover.

We plan to do most of the exterior works in sections to try to mitigate the issue, but part of me wants to say "the hell with it" and try to tent the whole damned thing - just to see...

Unfortunately, a 50x50 heavy duty tarp runs about $400 and I can think of better places to spend that money.

Not sure - we will see i suppose.

 

[Bmarler]

the area in the middle that is thicker looks to be the critical part to support the anchor. was the entire core (the middle part and the areas around it, including the foot switch area and the aft area) initially molded as one piece, epoxied and laid upon the bow bulkhead (the wall at the end of the photo)?

now the idea is to remove the rotten core in the middle and replace with a starboard/acrylic. the new core will only be glued to the top layer with epoxy. pulpit is then bolted to this new core and windlass on top on the pulpit also bolted to the core (the backing plate is likely also supported only by this area). Could the windlass pull the entire new core away in a storm?


View attachment 142262

When the boat was built, the deck was built separately, and what you’re showing was actually on top. So, yes, the thing was built and then flipped over and fastened to the hull.
You are right to be concerned about the strength of the entire unit. This isn’t the place for a substandard repair. You will want to be sure prep the surface well so you get a good bond to whatever surface you leave.
I’d probably use good marine plywood for this repair. You want something with good compressive strength.
I bet doing it like Dave says wouldn’t be that bad. Lay in the opening and use a multi tool to cut the entire perimeter of the cored area, do a couple of cuts across to get it into manageable size pieces. Hammer and chisel, and multi tool with big flat blades to separate it from the deck. Grind it nice and smooth. Whew, done with the dusty part.
But, before you begin, prep the area. Remove all the cushions, and soft surfaces from the area. Maybe even bag it off with plastic sheeting so dust doesn’t get all over the inside of the boat. Put more plastic down to catch everything that might fall into the bilge. This makes cleanup a lot easier.
Do clean up all the dust and debris before starting the reconstruction.
Cut the new plywood to fit, take care to round over the sides with a router. butter it well with thickened epoxy and glue it in place. Use enough epoxy so you get good squeeze out on all sides. Wipe it smooth after you brace it in place. Pieces of lumber cut to fit from your platform to the new plywood will lock it in place. Let it cure.
Next, use epoxy filleting compound to round the sides so the glass lays down without air pockets. Then do the glass layup.
Check out the fiberglast website for tips on doing the glass work. Good stuff there.
When you get to the point where you’re drilling the new holes for mounting everything be sure to seal the exposed core with epoxy. That prevents water from getting in and starting the rot all over again.
Doing the work from the under side eliminates having to tent the foredeck. All you need to do is tape down some plastic to cover all the holes.

 

[SteveK]

Since post #1 I have wondered what was the finish detail of the cabin ceiling. I mean with bolts protruding into the headliner space 1-2 inches, what was there. Maybe someone with the same boat can tell us.

As for the repair to the core.
First thing I would do is remove the second anchor permanently as that added weight leveraged is what caused the bolt to pull through the underside F/G. Assumptions made are rotted core, perhaps.

Remove the pulpit. Cut the F/G well 3 inches from sides, remove any coring, replace with plywood and glass over with overlap to the 3 inches of original. Cover with the pulpit reused or new.
The repair area is covered, why are you cutting out the underside

 

[Action]

Since post #1 I have wondered what was the finish detail of the cabin ceiling. I mean with bolts protruding into the headliner space 1-2 inches, what was there. Maybe someone with the same boat can tell us.

The protruding bolts are in the anchor locker. There is no other finishing other than what is shown in the picture of post #1.

Post #40 gives both a picture forward in the locker and just outside of the locker.

 

[C lectric]

QUOTE:now the idea is to remove the rotten core in the middle and replace with a starboard/acrylic. the new core will only be glued to the top layer with epoxy. pulpit is then bolted to this new core and windlass on top on the pulpit also bolted to the core (the backing plate is likely also supported only by this area). Could the windlass pull the entire new core away in a storm?
END QUOTE





DO NOT USE STARBOARD OR ACRYLIC AS CORING MATERIAL.

IF YOU DO IT WILL FAIL. And note that ACRYLIC has nothing to do with STARBOARD other than they are both plastics. THere are materials that are highly suitable of recoring jobs and materials that should never be used for coring applications. That's like referring to iron and aluminum as the same materials. Be carefull or you may get the wrong materials

Be carefull or you will set yourself up for an expensive failure and a redo.

 

[Action]

Would using a solid piece of treated wood for the bow pulpit be acceptable?

It would think it would have the strength.
May be more resistant to rot.

I get that a solid wood can be a more expensive material and heavier so a builder would use marine plywood.

Just wondering if a solid piece of wood is a better choice for strength and being rot resistant.

 

[Comodave]

I believe that the OP didn’t understand that there are 2 cores involved, one in the actual deck and one in the backing plate in the rope locker. It sounds like both need replacing. Obviously the backing plate in the rope locker is completely rotted out. The OP said that where the controls for the windlass are on the bow deck is rotted also. The deck by the controller for the windlass will need to be done from the top. The backing plate in the rope locker should be done from the bottom. I believe I read somewhere that there were also some other places in the main deck that are rotten too. I would do all the repairs on the main deck and then sand off the nonskid on the main decks and paint with Kiwigrip.

 

[DBG8492]

I would do all the repairs on the main deck and then sand off the nonskid on the main decks and paint with Kiwigrip.

Went through this on the sailboat deck the fiance and I recently refinished.

We didn't need to sand the gelcoat molded non-skid all the way down. We just went over it with an orbital using 120 grit, cleaned with TSP and acetone, and then a good single.coat of KiwiGrip.

I was pleasantly surprised that the old molded non-skid was completely hidden.

Talked to the guy who bought her recently and the KiwiGrip is still holding up, so...

 

[Comodave]

Yes, Kiwigrip wears like iron. Hope that you never need to sand it off. I had to do a deck repair after I painted the deck with Kiwigrip. Tried 120 with a DA sander, then 80, then 40 and got nowhere. Finally got out the belt sander with 40 grit and I was able to get through it. Tough stuff.