Proposed boating safety law in Florida

[Blissboat]

A legislator from south Florida has filed a bill that would require proof of boating safety education for all boaters, not just those of a certain age, and would require insurance for alcohol offenders:

https://floridapolitics.com/archive...heme-require-insurance-for-alcohol-offenders/

It's a start. 40 years ago I dismissed ideas like this as a waste. But 60 years of boating in and around Florida has convinced me that mandatory boater licensing, with an education requirement, is overdue. Like most on TF (I expect), I don't feel that I particularly need any new boating safety education, but if this becomes law I'll be the first to sign up. I just hope the training is sufficiently rigorous to make an impression on all the truly ignorant, reckless folks who somehow get behind the wheel of boats.

 

[dannc]

A legislator from south Florida has filed a bill that would require proof of boating safety education for all boaters, not just those of a certain age, and would require insurance for alcohol offenders:

https://floridapolitics.com/archive...heme-require-insurance-for-alcohol-offenders/

It's a start. 40 years ago I dismissed ideas like this as a waste. But 60 years of boating in and around Florida has convinced me that mandatory boater licensing, with an education requirement, is overdue. Like most on TF (I expect), I don't feel that I particularly need any new boating safety education, but if this becomes law I'll be the first to sign up. I just hope the training is sufficiently rigorous to make an impression on all the truly ignorant, reckless folks who somehow get behind the wheel of boats.

Back around 1990, there was a push in Florida for mandatory boating safety class. I was trained to be a "certified instructor" to teach the class. It was pretty basic, lights, PFDs, some navigation aides, some rules of the roads, etc. Basic, basic, basic it was. The law was never passed.

Honestly, I don't see a basic class fixing stupid. Watching the Haulover videos on YouTube as an example. I have seen sooooo much stupid stuff on the water, and a class will not fix this level of stupid. A class certainly will help those that want to be safe and those that want to improve, but it simply is not going to prevent the stupid things I have seen done on boats.

One of many examples. I saw a guy on a 40ish foot long go fast boat in the ICW, I think we were south of Port Everglades and the tide was out. He turned into a channel that we had just came out off and went up on a plane doing 20-30 knots. The channel could not have been much wider than his boat was long and the channel twisted this way and that. He could NOT see what was in the channel and then stop at the speed he was going. If another boat had been in that channel they would collide or someone was going to have to run aground. If Mr. Go Fast had run aground he would have gone into the mangroves and likely died. If he had hit another boat, almost certainly people were going to die. The channel was well marked with Wake Speed signs. Unfortunately, you can't fix or train out, this level of stupid which is the type of mess I see all of the time.

The inlet we sail out of had a couple of people in jet skis run up on the jetty a few years ago. I really don't know how that could happen. Plenty of room, you can see the jetty, but somehow they went up on the rocks. The jet skis in that area are usually operated as a group tour so they have a guide that is supposed to keep things under control.... That does not happen much either.

Later,
Dan

 

[Hippocampus]

Often wondered in these days of everyone having a phone with a camera immediately at hand if when you see really stupid you could make a video and anomalously send it to the appropriate law enforcement. US signed the conventions and we do have existing domestic and international laws. We don’t have adequate enforcement personnel and likely never will. You can get mailed a speeding tickets on the basis of camera recordings. You still can determine if footage is real or not. Don’t see a problem with this. Sure offender is allowed their day in court to speak to mitigating circumstances. I’m not talking about minor infractions or mild events of being waked but rather what is reported above which is reckless endangerment.

 

[Don L]

A legislator from south Florida has filed a bill that would require proof of boating safety education for all boaters, not just those of a certain age, and would require insurance for alcohol offenders:

https://floridapolitics.com/archive...heme-require-insurance-for-alcohol-offenders/

maybe a good idea, but Florida has basically the same for cars and have you driven here?

If they really want do something, require insurance for every boater to include derelict removal

 

[hmason]

Getting insurance in FL is not an easy task these days. And it's very expensive. If you think the idiots at Haulover Inlet are unique try watching the YouTube videos of idiots at Point Pleasant Canal. Stupid lives everywhere.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. d. Yep. Ya can't legislate stupid. Drunk and stupid is a double whammy. Now combine those issues with the absolute necessity to not to appear to have an inadequate reproductive organ and...

 

[Delta Riverat]

I'm all for basic skills & info training. We (CA) now have the "Boater Card" law in place which requires an operator to have passed a basic water course. Safety, nav rules, equipment rules and alcohol effects. It's like a 4 hour internet school.

And yeah, it can't cure stupid. But any training is better than none. At least credit card captains will have to learn the basics first. Well they don't really, but at least the sheriff can hand out tickets -

 

[SteveK]

Greetings,
Mr. d. Yep. Ya can't legislate stupid. Drunk and stupid is a double whammy. Now combine those issues with the absolute necessity to not to appear to have an inadequate reproductive organ and...

You can only see it at low tide.

 

[Hyperion]

I'm completely against this. There are tons of requirements for driving a car and the road is still full of idiots killing others. This will have no effect on safety and just create another bureaucratic hurdle for all of us plus more money for the bureaucrats and the myriad of companies that will crop up to take advantage of the new regulations. If you want a primer for what I mean, give this old school Ronny Raygun recording a listen:

 

[rslifkin]

I'm completely against this. There are tons of requirements for driving a car and the road is still full of idiots killing others. This will have no effect on safety and just create another bureaucratic hurdle for all of us plus more money for the bureaucrats and the myriad of companies that will crop up to take advantage of the new regulations.

Not all states have screwed this up. I think the courses could be more useful, but in NY, for example, you can do it online and the approved courses range between cheap and free. After you're done it's a few bucks to get the card printed, or you can have DMV add it to your license at the next renewal for no extra charge.

 

[psneeld]

With no requirement to operate a vessel, there is no tool to take away your boating privileges.

With the card (which is about as simple as one can get because of the very basic educational requirements in the course) and being required to carry one, no law enforcement can remove your privilege to operate under the assumption you at least were exposed to the various rules in boating.

In states that have the boating safety requirement card, they have seen some limited improvement and more in states where boating issues are actually enforced. I taught the course and worked on the water with marine police for 15 years in NJ.

In most states, the governments I doubt made money with this requirement. The civilian courses/instructors made the money, the few dollars the states got out of the requirement didn't or barely covered the cost of setting up and running the program.

What I found hysterical when teaching the course, some of the most outspoken that thought it silly and unneeded had trouble when taking the simple test. Often their spouses that were worried they hadn't been in a class or taken a test since high school usually outscored them.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Getting insurance in FL is not an easy task these days. And it's very expensive. If you think the idiots at Haulover Inlet are unique try watching the YouTube videos of idiots at Point Pleasant Canal. Stupid lives everywhere.

I lived near by. It's a piece of cake now that the new bridges are in compared to old Loveland Town.

 

[PhilPB]

I'm sure this may stir some folks up, but I have always believed there should be boating safety and operating requirements as well as a license to operate a vessel. At least in my area, post covid has seen a large amount of newer traffic on our waterways. A lot of it is due to boat clubs that have popped up everywhere with many inexperienced operators that are in these boats. I see a lot of these people operating boats in unsafe, and annoying, manners. Also there are a lot of newer large boats with 4-5 high horsepower engines going at least 40mph in the channel. It's crazy at times so we try to limit our boating to Monday-Friday.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Unfortunately you can not educate or legislate responsibility. It is a personal choice.

 

[Cold Duck]

I have a safety course card from Hawaii. That gonna be accepted in California, Florida, rest of the states? True, for someone boating for 60+ years, it didn't add much to my nautical lore, but it might help the young new guy who borrows his friends jet ski, launches in a 5mph bay and takes off at 30mph right from the ramp. Might help the guy who has more money than sense and runs his 40' go fast at 70mph then finds it takes over 100' to come off a plane when you pull the throttles back. I'm for the educaton, not for the regulation. But you can't have one without the other. Bummer

 

[HeadedToTexas]

We have too many laws already and new ones are not stemming the tide of stupidity. Instead of laws, we need accountability, responsibility, and liability.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. HTT. "We have too many laws already..." Pretty well agree but the problem, as I see it, is lack of enforcement of the existing laws. Too many boaters and not enough LEO's OR the cops are in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Rather than increase the police force, stricter application of BWI and safety equipment laws might cause some to amend their devil-may-care ways. I've never been but a lot of my FL condo neighbors go to the "sand bar" for their weekend jaunts. For the most part they don't seem to be incapacitated but they may be the exception amongst other attendees.



I wonder how may time police stop boaters leaving said area and do breathalizers?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Indeed. I suppose that's what I mean by a need for accountability, responsibility, and liability. Enforce the laws we have. Training does not equal accountability.

 

[rslifkin]

Number of laws isn't necessarily the problem. It's more that laws need to be enforceable (and actually enforced) and they also need to be designed as an effective solution to a known problem, not just a "this sounds like a good idea".

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Yes. Too often politicians see the need to do something as a need to create new legislation when in fact the answer is to simply enforce the legislation already in place.

And while I am an advocate for training and especially for learning, neither replaces personal responsibility and accountability. Society is increasingly lacking in both.

 

[SteveK]

Boat insurance companies are the enforcers.
Marinas are enforcers as they demand proof of insurance.
Liability is covered.
But neither have ever asked to see my boater card, my water driver license.

accountability, responsibility, many do not have that for driving a car.
A boaters card is better than nothing, but how much better?
Taking courses and getting their card or endorsement is better than nothing.
But it is all classroom theory. There is no operator testing that I know of to see if you can operate a boat.

 

[O C Diver]

I would like to see a more simplistic approach. Make state boating laws be essentially the same as automobile laws. Get a DWI, same rules and penalties apply. Get caught speeding or reckless boating, same penalties and your car insurance gets notified. There was a marked reduction in DUIs and DWIs when the legal fees started costing $10,000. I'm also good with the radar gun and camera concept of ticketing the boat instead of the operator.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

While there are many auto operators driving every day without a license, it is the actual license that allows the government control to a point. Enforcement with or without boating safety cards is still dependent on how bad the problem is perceived by the different gov't agencies responsible for boating safety. It REALLY ISN"T the USCG...it is really the state and local level. While the USCG can enforce "negligent operations" the proof and legal proceedings are much more complicated than state and local levels.

Without something for boats, what control would the gov't have to control your boating habits? While true it may not stop everyone from behaving badly, but now you can be stopped and checked for that card and the more that happens, the more people might catch on that someone IS watching what you do.

If the system works, infractions may result in you losing your boating safety card for awhile (in some states a BUI also includes losing your drivers license). If caught operating WITHOUT the card and a second infraction, the penalties can go up.

 

[SteveK]

The only practical way I see to check for boating cards is to have an official walking the docks and launching ramps asking who will be driving this boat, let me see your boaters card.
In our area it is well known that there are very few officers for enforcement compared to the thousands of boats on the move.

 

[psneeld]

Some places I boat there are guys on the water every day for hours and they do spot checks.

The USCG doesn't usually ask as a state boating card is not their jurisdiction....but state, local police and other agencies do ask for it.

 

[pjtemplin]

I live in WA state, and do not yet own a boat, so none of this is immediately relevant to me. I'm wholly in favor of boater education, and WA has a boater education card program that's been in place for over a decade. It had a phased introduction, likely to keep the burden of the ramp-up under control.



That said, in looking at what Florida is looking to do, I'm wholly against my boater education card being "on" my drivers license. I intend to boat with a passport card in hand as my ID should I ever get boarded, and intend to never provide my driver's license to any officer when dealing with a boat issue (on the premise that it's not relevant).

 

[Delta Riverat]

The San Joaquin County Sheriffs are numerous and visible here on the Delta and stop boats all the time. I'm sure they ask to see your boater card first.

 

[psneeld]

I live in WA state, and do not yet own a boat, so none of this is immediately relevant to me. I'm wholly in favor of boater education, and WA has a boater education card program that's been in place for over a decade. It had a phased introduction, likely to keep the burden of the ramp-up under control.



That said, in looking at what Florida is looking to do, I'm wholly against my boater education card being "on" my drivers license. I intend to boat with a passport card in hand as my ID should I ever get boarded, and intend to never provide my driver's license to any officer when dealing with a boat issue (on the premise that it's not relevant).

Good luck....

NJ definitely connects the two...probably being for DUI/BUI related items, plus NJ has some fee associated for boating on "non-tidal" waters and that is recorded on your driver's license separate from the boater's safety card.

 

[rslifkin]

I live in WA state, and do not yet own a boat, so none of this is immediately relevant to me. I'm wholly in favor of boater education, and WA has a boater education card program that's been in place for over a decade. It had a phased introduction, likely to keep the burden of the ramp-up under control.



That said, in looking at what Florida is looking to do, I'm wholly against my boater education card being "on" my drivers license. I intend to boat with a passport card in hand as my ID should I ever get boarded, and intend to never provide my driver's license to any officer when dealing with a boat issue (on the premise that it's not relevant).

The way NY does it you can get it as a separate card or you can get the mark added to your license (or both) with the idea that it's one less card to carry.

 

[Don L]

I would like to see a more simplistic approach. Make state boating laws be essentially the same as automobile laws. Get a DWI, same rules and penalties apply.

Oh I see it all the time. My marina is right across from the city jail and I come back to it and frequently see a FWC (water cops) boat at the dock with a guy in shorts, hand cuffed, waiting for a sheriff to come get him to take to jail.