Port Eng shut down.

[Capt. Rodbone]

It didn’t take long for us to resume our loop trip and experience an issue. I’ll share what I think are relevant details and what I’ve done and hopefully get some suggestions.
Two weeks ago changed all three fuel filters on each engine as well as oil filters. I ran four hours 10 days ago with no issues. Ran four hours yesterday before the issue. Did top off fuel between the two trips. Also used biocide. Together the tanks hold about 480 gallons and it took exactly 100 gallons to top off. Tanks were plumbed together when we bought the boat and I have not segregated them as of yet.
Lost port engine just prior to entering Whitton Lock on the Tombigbee waterway. Secured shaft with a pipe wrench and continued on and while in the lock started looking for alternatives as my wife wasn’t comfortable driving with me down in the engine room in her just now getting used to the boat. Got lucky as there is Midway Marina 5 miles down river. Continued on with one engine. Didn’t expect to get practice so soon on running this boat on one engine but no issues at the lock or getting to the dock at Midway.
This morning I read up and watched one more refresher video on changing the primary fuel filter however it is my first time doing so solo.
I will spare the details on exactly what I did given it is a relatively simple process. I did fill the canister up to the very top before securing the lid and opening fuel flow since I had read that may keep me from having to prime. It did not, so I opened the nut on the top of the first secondary filter and started priming. Considerable bubbles at first which I saw to be great news. Kept pumping pumping secured the nut tried to start the engine no joy. Repeated the process three times never saw any more bubbles, but she also doesn’t start. I’m wondering if there is a reason to go ahead and change out secondary filters even though again they’ve got less than 10 hours on them. Starting to think it’s no coincidence that we took on fuel between the two four hour runs and wondering if something was stirred up in the tank. If that is the case, that is a harder thing to remedy. We can’t get a mechanic if one is needed to look at this engine until Monday anyway so if wisdom here says yes the next thing you need to do is change your secondary filters I will do so.

Just looking for experienced wisdom and thoughts from you folks.

 

[AnsleyS]

I do not believe that you need to change your fuel filter again. The issue may still be air in the fuel system. You may need to bleed the injector pump and possibly the injectors themselves.

 

[Tator]

What make of engines?

 

[aavantura]

We had the same problem after a rough sea. We kept losing power, changing filters. Finally stopped at LuLu's on the ICW. The engine wouldn't start, noticed the air bobbles in the filter, then followed the fuel line back to the tank, it looked good until I noticed weather cracking on the outside, but it wan't leaking fuel, but was sucking air. I replaced the line, bled the injectors, it started right up, then finished our trip to PicWick without a miss. Hope this helps.

 

[backinblue]

Since only 1 engine seems affected, doubt that it's from taking on bad fuel or stirring up the tanks. I would bet there is still air in the system as Ansley sugggested

 

[ranger58sb]

Yep, bleed through to the injectors.

When the engine shut down happened, that probably sucked last fuel from the line between secondary filter and injectors... so priming just to the secondary probably isn't sufficient.

My first guess, anyway.

-Chris

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

Ford Lehman’s. 120’s

Thanks to all of you and I will start with the injectors next.

 

[jgwinks]

Still don't know what make engine this is, but there should be bleed screw(s) on the injection pump. Crack those and prime till fuel w/o bubbles comes out. Then crack the lines on the nozzles loose and crank the engine till no bubbles. As you tighten the lines while cranking it should start. Note my Perkins engines have two bleed screws and a pipe connection on each injection pump that must be loosened to bleed. The PO and the "mechanic" prepping the boat for sea trial didn't know that. They worked on it for three days w/o success. It was quite the debacle, I had to show the mech how to do it. Took me 10 minutes on Google to learn how, apparently they didn't know how to do that either.

Edit... Ok Lehman's. Should be easier than the Perkins.

 

[High Wire]

Double check you opened the fuel tank valves after the first filter change. Bleed the injection pump. If that doesn’t work start over at every bleed point from the secondary to the injectors themselves.

 

[alormaria]

It's always the last thing you did.

 

[psneeld]

If Lehmans, don't mess with the injectors.

I bled my Lehmans probably a hundred times and they never failed to start with just bleeding one one or two of the injector pump bleed screws.

If that doesn't work, you may have a secondary issue too.

 

[Comodave]

Sorry to hear about your problems. In case you do not know about the Lehman 120 injector pump oil changes, you are supposed to change the oil in the injector pump at 50 hour intervals. At least until you establish how long they can go before fuel dilution becomes an issue on your particular engines.

 

[Lepke]

Sometimes it's very difficult to find an air leak. Every connection or filter can be the point air enters the system. You need to check each connection, including all bleed points.

It's probably not the filters if you ran several hours w/o problems. The air entry point is probably a connection somewhere in the line near the engine where vibration loosened the fitting or wore a pin hole in the fuel line.

If you can't find the leak, try pressurizing the fuel line with compressed air and look for fuel dribbles and listen for air hissing.
In the future, add an electric fuel pump. It makes bleeding much easier.

 

[PM]

If, for whatever reason you starve one engine. You need to bleed the entire system, right through to the injector lines. It's a pain but must be done.

First find the cause. It could be an air leak at the filters or even the famous "double gasket" on the filter.

pete

 

[psneeld]

According to my phone call to American Diesel and personal experience a Lehman 120 should never need injector line bled, only the one or two screws on the injector pump.

Many diesels yes, Lehman 120s at least, no.

 

[Comodave]

Our last boat had SP225sin it. We never bled past the secondaries and they would start right up.

Did you change the secondaries? If so the O rings in them are not O rings they are square gaskets. You could have a twist in one. Or you may have missed removing the one that is up in the housing and out of sight. 2 gaskets will cause air leaks.

 

[jleonard]

Just in case, this pic shows the bleed screws on the pump

 

[High Wire]

If and when you do change the secondary filters, don't make the mistake I did on secondary. I have a Perkins engine but is has the same CAV secondary filter unit and elements. The gasket goes in the grove in the top housing, then you put the element in place. I made the mistake of laying the gasket in the groove of the element which blocks most of the fuel flow. Enough passes to bleed the engine and for it to run about 5 - 30 seconds but then it will die. Found what I did wrong after about 30 bleeds and finally going back and replacing each element. DOH! The OEM Perkins elements had extra holes that would have allowed the engine to run. The replacement NAPA brand secondary element did not. Self induced nightmare!!!

 

[rgano]

I applaud Jay for the above drawing because THAT is where you bleed a 120 with Simms pump. Do yourself a favor someday when you get the opportunity and install a small electric fuel pump in the fuel supply line right after the tank valve and include a normally opened valved bypass line around the pump. Next time you need to bleed the engine, shut the bypass line valve and turn on the pump to pressurize the system. Next open the forwardmost bolt of the number 3 items on the drawing and let it flow until solid fuel exits. You can bleed all the fuel out of the engine-mounted filters you want, but you will wear the batteries and starter out trying to get a Simms-equipped 120 to start if you do not bleed the injector pump - NOT the injectors. 29 years experience with a pair of these engines talking at you here.

 

[C lectric]

Sounds like jleonard's dwg. would be worth saving to a document file.

That dwg. is in the Lehmans owners manual, page 14. I posted it below.


I also noticed that you never said which engine model, specifically, that you have. Or which injector pump you have. There are several Lehman versions which makes trouble shooting through a forum very much harder.


Darn, the manual won't upload. Tells me it is too big at 4.9 mb. Oh well.

If you click my moniker it will present you with the ability to send me a P.M.
Include your EMAIL address in the PM and I will reply with the manual.
Or at least try again.

Hopefully rgano's post is what you need.

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

Update from the OP

Thank you again to all of you. What a great group of people.
After starting with bleeding at the first secondary fuel filter I progressed to the initial bleeder on the injector pump with no luck, and then to the next one. She started immediately!

 

[Juliet 15]

Congrats! Have a great time on your trip, and keep us posted.

 

[Comodave]

Good deal. Glad you got it started.

 

[jleonard]

[ Do yourself a favor someday when you get the opportunity and install a small electric fuel pump in the fuel supply line right after the tank valve and include a normally opened valved bypass line around the pump. Next time you need to bleed the engine, shut the bypass line valve and turn on the pump to pressurize the system./QUOTE]

The pic below shows how I accomplished installing an electric pump for bleeding purposes.

 

[Capt. Rodbone]

The two bleeder bolts were the ticket

Thanks again to all of you. As an experienced boater ( virtually all on sailboats and center consoles) but a mechanical neophyte I truly don’t think I would have embarked on this journey without knowing I could come here for exactly what I get when I do.
To virtually all of you this was ‘no Brainer simple” however for me, I now see it as an opportunity to take an issue, research where I need to begin, work through it, and achieve success. This was a first for me but I suspect most of you, with challenges this small as well as more complex ones understand what I mean when I say how gratifying it was to hear her fire up and start purring!

 

[catalinajack]

I applaud Jay for the above drawing because THAT is where you bleed a 120 with Simms pump. Do yourself a favor someday when you get the opportunity and install a small electric fuel pump in the fuel supply line right after the tank valve and include a normally opened valved bypass line around the pump. Next time you need to bleed the engine, shut the bypass line valve and turn on the pump to pressurize the system. Next open the forwardmost bolt of the number 3 items on the drawing and let it flow until solid fuel exits. You can bleed all the fuel out of the engine-mounted filters you want, but you will wear the batteries and starter out trying to get a Simms-equipped 120 to start if you do not bleed the injector pump - NOT the injectors. 29 years experience with a pair of these engines talking at you here.

As for installing an electric fuel pump, I went one step further and by-passed (and removed) the mechanical pump. Fass and Walbro make reliable pumps. Walbro pumps are rated for 18,000 hours of continuous use. Makes bleeding a Lehman a brainless task.

 

[psneeld]

For those not real familiar with the set up and considering installing an electric pump as the only or full time backup fuel pump, ABYC fuel system recommendations (that may be scrutinized by a surveyor) require certain mounting and electrical details.

May have someone with those current guidelines send them to you.