Pinned to the dock

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jlhegland

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Hi everyone. Northwind is a 34’ CHB. I have enjoyed skippering her with only one engine and no thrusters for about 7 years. I have had a few issues but nothing that we couldn’t deal with. Recently though, this has changed for the wife and I. She is 70 and I am 75. We get around OK but I would say we are challenged when strength is a necessity. In the past year I’ve been pinned to the dock by the wind twice, not even a strong wind but 10-15 kts. When moored on the stbd side trying to move forward, the stern pushes us into the dock and the bow follows. If we try to move in reverse, the prop crawl pulls the stern into the dock. We’ve been lucky enough to have willing hands push us off the dock both times, but I’d much rather know how to get off the dock myself. I’ve thought of tying off a line to the stbd aft corner and backing but I’m afraid I’ll damage the corner of the hull and/or the swimstep. Thanks for your good advice.
 
There are exterior bow thrusters that can be retrofitted. Depending on the size you need, the cost just may be worth it for you. Between $2,500-$4,000
 
Thrusters are nice, but all you need is a good understanding of spring lines.


Find a knowledgeable person and have then help you through the actions.
 
Turn the helm towards the dock, shift into forward and give a shot of throttle. Immediately chop throttle back to idle and shift into neutral, short pause then into reverse. If your stern is less than 20 degrees off of the dock, you will need to repeat. If you are over 20 degrees, just leave it in reverse and back away from the dock.

Having a bow truster installed may run $12-15k but it may very well be worth it to provide a couple more years of boating while lowering your stress levels. Stern thrusters are cheaper to install but are not as benefitial. Your budget, your life, your decision, but you do have options. An external bow thruster is another good option and cheaper than a tunnel thruster.
 
psneeld said:
Thrusters are nice, but all you need is a good understanding of spring lines.


Find a knowledgeable person and have then help you through the actions.
Click to expand...


I agree that using a spring can help get you off a dock in many circumstances. However, with enough wind and current, that can still not be enough. Of course the same is true with thrusters. I've been in situations where it required both spring lines and thrusters to get me off.
 
jlhegland said:
Hi everyone. Northwind is a 34’ CHB. I have enjoyed skippering her with only one engine and no thrusters for about 7 years. I have had a few issues but nothing that we couldn’t deal with. Recently though, this has changed for the wife and I. She is 70 and I am 75. We get around OK but I would say we are challenged when strength is a necessity. In the past year I’ve been pinned to the dock by the wind twice, not even a strong wind but 10-15 kts. When moored on the stbd side trying to move forward, the stern pushes us into the dock and the bow follows. If we try to move in reverse, the prop crawl pulls the stern into the dock. We’ve been lucky enough to have willing hands push us off the dock both times, but I’d much rather know how to get off the dock myself. I’ve thought of tying off a line to the stbd aft corner and backing but I’m afraid I’ll damage the corner of the hull and/or the swimstep. Thanks for your good advice.
Click to expand...


Were you docked with your stbd side to the dock or the port? I am assuming that your port side is to dock (port tie) since you said that your prop walk pushed your stern into the dock.


David's suggestion is what I would do with the assistance of a spring line. You would need conveniently placed cleats but I would have a line from the port bow to a cleat that was preferably just forward of midships. Have some fenders forward on the bow. Do as David described and with the helm hard to port, go forward with the throttle. This will swing your stern to stbd and your port bow in towards the dock. Then go into reverse. The bow will swing to port as the boat backs off.



The only really tricky part of it is to release the line from the dock. This will depend on if you are solo or have a deck hand and where the cleat was in relation to your boat. Sometimes just looping the line around the after most horn will allow it to slip off the horn as to back up. Otherwise using a slip through the center of the cleat allows you to free it with a firm jerk from the boat.


I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to do it as well, but I've always found it easiest to get the stern out and back off the dock.
 
Chapman's has a good chapter on using spring lines.
 
dhays said:
I agree that using a spring can help get you off a dock in many circumstances. However, with enough wind and current, that can still not be enough. Of course the same is true with thrusters. I've been in situations where it required both spring lines and thrusters to get me off.
Click to expand...


I have tied up in 60 knot winds, single, no thruster.


I doubt any thruster usually mounted in the boat I was on would have come close to handling the wind.


I will bet springs work long after the typical thruster can match the job.


Now I am not saying thrusters are worthless...but knowing springs well can be the difference in going home or riding it out or going some place else.
 
Yes, spring lines will work in most cases. Sometimes they don’t work so well. Thrusters will probably be very helpful. Nothing wrong with them. They may enable you to boat for more years than anything else you could do. I have taught boat handling for 30 years. We are trying to buy a new to us boat. The bow access isn’t the greatest and my wife is fairly clumsy. We will add both bow and stern thrusters to the boat so she doesn’t have to go onto the bow any more than absolutely necessary, hopefully never. Some people will try to denigrate your boat handling skills if you want thrusters. I realize that our strength and agility is not what it used to be and will only get worse as the years go by. That is why we will put the thrusters on. If it extends our boating life then it is worth it. Just make sure that you put on thrusters that are large enough to work when the wind pipes up. Good luck.
 
Please don't misinterpret what I said about thrusters...but with a spring...you have the full power of the engines to help (assuming there are attachment points strong enough).


I have used springs in storms far greater than what any thruster I have ever used could handle...heck, most thrusters had problems with the current at my last marina and only springs would get the boats against the dock.


Having thrusters is great and makes recreational boating way easier...but knowing springs well can make the difference in a pinch.
 
Agree that spring lines work great, but as people get older thrusters are greater…
 
Spring lines work but boats can get battle scars. It also requires some agility and timing with the release of lines. I look at thrusters just like GPS, radar, refrigeration , etc. it’s a vital part of a single engine boat when cruising in comfort. I will never own a boat without them. Just too old too run around and too stubborn to ask for help
 
What I guess I am missing is that once good with springs, there is no panicy running around, just smooth, determined actions that involve forces the average thruster just isn't going to handle.


I admit these situations are rare...and you never have to dock when everything is against you...


And again...I am not against thrusters at all...just saying get pretty good with springs and if the thruster ever fails or can't handle the job....you are still able t d what you wanted to.


Sure I see people using springs and it is a clown show...but it doesn't have to be. Also...sure there might be a nick or scrape using them...but again....comfort and knowing what you can and can't do will keep you out of the insurance claim arena.
 
Sailor of Fortune said:
maybe Hydraulic thrusters but the 12v are anemic .
Click to expand...

Not if you size them correctly. Our stern thruster would move the stern in 25 mph winds. More than that and I don’t want to be docking.
 
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Can you dock port side to instead? Use prop torque to your advantage to pull the stern away from the dock in reverse.
 
You can put a 24vt thrust on the boat provided you automatically put the batteries in series. Did that on my N46. I had 8D batteries.
On my AT34, I had installed a wireless DockMate. You can control both bow and stern thrusters at idle fwd and reverse of the engine.
The weak part of any 12vt thruster usage is the health of the batteries. I discovered on my AT, the bow thruster was on the start battery and the Cummins QSB 5.9 will shut down when the start battery voltage drops to about 10.8vts. I moved the bow thruster to the 3X4D house batteries along with the stern thruster.
General observation: The thrusters assist in normal docking.
General observation on spring lines: I agree, study that section of Chapman's book and practice before you actually need to use them. The use of them is very impressive. Might want to add one or two proper placed fenders too. No need to scratch up your boat. SMILE
 
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You have four options

1. Continue to depend on the largess of dock neighbors to push you off who are generally happy to pay-it-forward.

2. Patience. Wait until conditions improve. This is often the best approach, but for those of us who do not work in jobs that require a respect of nature, we usually seek a more aggressive plan.

3. Spring lines as Psneeld suggests. Highly effective but every boat and crew responds differently so takes practice. When they work, it's a thing of beauty. Think Astaire and Rogers.

4. Install thrusters.

Thinking about it, there is a 5th option - hesitate to depart your home berth due to fear of being stuck. This is the most expensive of all options - an unused boat is an expensive boat.

I can tell you that it's almost always easiest to depart a side-tie by bscking-out, and you really need to over-rotate the stern before you go to stern thrust. Fenders and spring lines are sort of fun to tinker with. I'd encourage you and your wife to spend an hour or two in an open dock in calm waters and see how it goes. When push comes to shove and you're in a real life scenario, you can always abort and let the wind put you back where you started.

Lot to be said about "patience." Especially at 75 years old.

Good luck. Please update.

Peter
 
I was undergoing the long road to qualify for command at sea in the US Navy in the rank of Commander (I was a LT at the time), and having passed the several day long written portion, I was before an oral board comprised of four US Navy captains. They asked the following question, "Assume you are in command of a steam-powered, single screw frigate (no thrusters) of the Knox class moored starboard side to a quay with the wind setting against your outboard side at 15 knots, how will you get underway with out tug assistance?" My answer was that I would not because the only was to clear the wall would be to use an aft-leading spring to come smartly ahead to kick the stern clear with a lot of rudder trying to counter the right-handed propeller's tendency to walk the stern in. This action would more that likely crush the bow-mounted sonar dome resulting in a mission kill of my ship followed by extensive repairs of the dome in dry dock. That was the only question they asked, and I passed. My point to the OP is that after fully acknowledging the excellent advice about spring lines given here, sometimes you just wait it out. My wife is not handy with lines, and I cannot move from the helm fast enough to handle a spring line in a situation where the forces of nature are against the boat strongly enough to pin us; so with us, moving off will just have to wait because injuring somebody is the worst thing that can happen.
 
Jeff F said:
Can you dock port side to instead? Use prop torque to your advantage to pull the stern away from the dock in reverse.
Click to expand...

I'm confused.

Won't a right-handed propeller in forward gear tend to push the stern of the boat to starboard (thereby pushing the bow to port and turning the boat counter-clockwise) unless the rotation is corrected for. In reverse gear, the turning effect will be much stronger and with opposite direction (pushing the aft to port).

Thus, the push of the stern to port - in reverse - would dictate docking to starboard.

Yes?
 
Totally agree with Peter and PS. Find it’s a great skill to have. Have spent a good part of the last decade in the Windwards. Had an electric thruster. It plain doesn’t cut the mustard in any kind of wind but your propulsion engine does. Most boats are pointy in the front and not so much in the back. My wife is 4’10” and prefers I helm during evolutions where the boat can get hurt. There’s an old saying “if it takes strength you’re doing it wrong “. Believe that’s true.
First when coming in think about leaving. Sometimes bow first will make it easier. Others stern first. Judge the prevailings and current.
Second have no loops in your dock lines. Have them long enough to loop around a cleat and come back to the boat. That way you can free one end and just draw it in with no drama. Before leaving judge which ones are tight. Then remove those that aren’t or will be needed to maneuver. Feel free to change up the position of your lines as needed to make it easy to leave.
Know how much and which way you get prop walk. Also how much walk you get at what degree of throttle. Last boat walked with brief bursts of throttles with little forward (aft) motion but not much with mild.
Don’t be committed to midship springs. Depending upon your boat sometimes using your aft or bow cleat works better.
Think first about getting distance from the dock then leaving. May be leaving bow first but need to go in reverse using a spring to get that distance.
I tell all crew what I’m going to do and why before starting out. Lowers everyone’s stress level. I leave fenders on both sides of the boat when leaving and keep one free so the bride can drop it down when I screw up. You can’t have to many fenders in my mind and carry extra round ones and cyclinders which come into use when there’s a difficult exit.
Never had hydraulic bow and stern thrusters. Would love to have them. So feel the need to continue to learn better close quarters boat handling. Feel your pain brother. I’m lousy at it even after the decades compared to some. Any docking where nothing bangs is a good one.

P.S.- have found it helpful to make believe we don’t have thrusters even on mild days. Then when we need them they’re an added benefit. Think that added practice of tight quarters maneuvering from no thruster docking adds to our skill set.
 
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You can use the spring line method without going forward to the bow. Use a spring line (that you leave ashore) to the stern and back against it. A helper can be dockside or in the cock pit and flip the line off the cleat once the bow is away from the dock.
 

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So I am still new here but I have a single screw and a bow thruster - but most of the boats I have seen including mine have swim platforms. It seems to me unless you go bow first and turn the boat into the dock with a spring line - you will crush the stern and the attached swim platform.

I always pivot on the bow with a looped line and back out until clear - I do not use my bow thruster. Every situation is different - every dock is different - wind and current are different - if it works for you that is great. And if it does not - wait it out seems to be more prudent.
 
LovetoBoat said:
So I am still new here but I have a single screw and a bow thruster - but most of the boats I have seen including mine have swim platforms. It seems to me unless you go bow first and turn the boat into the dock with a spring line - you will crush the stern and the attached swim platform.

I always pivot on the bow with a looped line and back out until clear - I do not use my bow thruster. Every situation is different - every dock is different - wind and current are different - if it works for you that is great. And if it does not - wait it out seems to be more prudent.
Click to expand...


Yes, there's a limit to how far you can pivot the bow out when dealing with a swim platform. The size of the platform and size of the fender at the stern will determine whether you can pivot enough or not.

Typically I back out from a side tie, as I can prop walk the stern off the dock (twins, no thrusters). Even in calm conditions I rarely take off forwards unless necessary.
 
Yes swim platforms and things mounted aft can be challenging or prohibitive in backing on a spring....especially in severe conditions.



But it still can be done.... depending.... and valuable to consider over an after bow spring if the pinning wind is forward of the beam.
 
phillippeterson said:
I'm confused.

Won't a right-handed propeller in forward gear tend to push the stern of the boat to starboard (thereby pushing the bow to port and turning the boat counter-clockwise) unless the rotation is corrected for. In reverse gear, the turning effect will be much stronger and with opposite direction (pushing the aft to port).

Thus, the push of the stern to port - in reverse - would dictate docking to starboard.

Yes?
Click to expand...

Yes. The OP indicated that in his case reverse prop torque pulled the stern towards the dock. "If we try to move in reverse, the prop crawl pulls the stern into the dock." I assumed a LH prop from that comment.

My current boat has a RH prop and I typically dock starboard side to the dock for that reason. A burst of throttle in reverse from standstill pulls the stern away from the dock. My last boat had LH prop and I docked port side to the dock whenever possible.

As others have pointed out, the best strategy for getting off the dock is to get the stern angled out and exit in reverse. My experience is that having prop torque supporting that goal can make all the difference.
 
My boat is in Ensenada getting finished up. Last time I was there I moved her from one marina to another. Calm weather and I was alone. I'm rusty these days, but still consider myself a pretty fair close quarter helmsman. I failed to notice a slight current and as I backed out into a somewhat narrow fairway, I could not get my bow turned out into the fairway. Frankly, I was in a bit of unexpected trouble......until Viktor, a dock hand I'd befriended during my stay, came to my rescue and pushed my bow through for me. I was humbled to say the least. I've had a few memorable learning experiences that started with hubris (one Angel Island in SF Bay comes instantly to mind - what a cluster)

My point is that docking is highly variable based on conditions of course, but also boat and crew. Especially when it cones to spring lines, what works on one boat will often yield unexpected results on a different boat. There's often a healthy gap between theory and reality so online advice columns are unreliable at best, and unfortunately can be counterproductive because they often give the impression the troubled helmsman just isn't doing it right, that there is a simple procedure that would cure his woes.

Psneeld mentioned Chapman's has a good section on springlines. If so, see how they work on your boat, but do so in calm conditions. I know, you won't need them in calm conditions but you need to first understand how the boat moves. Springlines are all about leverage, which means you have to identify the best fulcrum points to set fenders to pivot. You need to develop muscle memory and test your equipment- many boats have lines long enough to double-back so crew can work from the boat vs the dock.

I do firmly believe in thrusters, especially for single engine trawlers. I know all the workarounds but none totally equal the close quarter maneuverability of an adequately sized thruster. And I know the arguments for not having or not relying on a thruster.

The bulk of my recreational boating has been in SF Bay where afternoon winds are almost always 25 kts on the Bay, and in the high teens at docks when you return. Like many people, I started by being terrified to go out for fear of conditions when I returned - and that was on a Uniflite 42 with twin screws (I was a novice/lousy helmsman back then). I would have gotten so much more use out of that boat if I had had a thruster.

There are no magic bullets. If my opening story of being in trouble in Ensenada reminds me of anything, it's that not all docking problems have a solution. Sometimes it's best to just wait and let conditions improve. Or have the good fortune to have Viktor come to the rescue.

Peter
 
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