Outboard repair forum?

[timjet]

I wish I could afford to have someone look at all my mechanical problems. I can't so the first thing I do is:

Engine related: Boatdiesel.com
Outboard related: iboats.com
Boat related: trawlerforum.com

When you hire someone to fix something the reason generally falls into 2*categories.
1. Don't have the knowledge to repair it.
2. Don't want to or can't.

So far I have been able to fix everything myself. However I know there will be some things I just can't do, not due to know how, I've already figured out the problem from the above web sites, but access. There are some things on my boat that a 6'3" guy just can't get to.

It would kill me to pay some shop $250 to install a carb rebuild kit in an outboard simply because I didn't want to take the time to figure out the problem myself. If you have the perseverance, someone at the above web sites will help you figure out the problem. You also gain the knowledge from repairing things yourself that makes you much more self reliant.

An example. I must change the raw water pump on my Cummins diesel. After attempting to do the job myself, I found I could not gain access to the lower attachment bolt. Boatdiesel.com told me I had to remove the engine mounting bracket and this gives you access to the lower bolt, no other way to do this. Now I may not be up to this for you must use a jack to relieve the weight of the engine on the mounting assembly in order to remove the bracket. With this knowledge, if I hire a mechanic I will at least know the proper procedure rather than spend an hour of two of the mechanics time while he figures out how to do it.

Just my thoughts.




-- Edited by timjet on Wednesday 14th of July 2010 09:18:44 AM

 

[Max Simmons]

Timjet, kind of off topic, but I recently had*to remove the transmission for re-building and had the same dilemna.* I did not have any good surface to jack the engine from, so I put a long timber across the salon floor, spreading the load as far as possible, drilled a hole above the engine hoist ring, installed all-thread and a coupler, put on a couple washers and a nut and tightened the nut to raise the engine up.* Worked pretty well.

 

[timjet]

Max,That was quite a project.


Mine is made difficult because of access. My Carver has lots of engine and little space for it.


The clearance between the oil pan where it's attached to the block of the engine (the lifting point where the jack pushes up on) barely has enough clearance between that point and the inside hull for the smallest bottle jack I could find. I cut a piece of 3/4 plywood into a section 4" x 4" and attached a strip of 3/4 thick plywood about 1" wide to the 4 x 4 piece at the lower end to make it level. The bottle jack fits more or less level on the 4 x 4 piece. I cut a piece of 3/4 ply about 1" square that fits on the oil pan where the jack will push on. It's a bit flimsy and not sure it will work. I need a socket or end wrench to loosen the engine mount bolt nut and I didn't have one large enough, so will go back next weekend with the proper size socket and try again.

 

[RickB]

Deflate a fender that will fit between the oil pan and the hull then reinflate it enough to raise the engine.

 

[skipperdude]

Rick,
Now thats an idea.
Rescue workers use airbags to lift cars and even things larger. Saw a savlage crew on one of those reality TV shows use giant air bags to lift a barge

SD

 

[Codger2]

If Rick's fender idea works, I would sure like to hear about it.

 

[RickB]

Just make sure the engine is blocked to support it before removing any bolts or working under it.

You don't want the fender holding the thing any longer than necessary and certainly not to hold it off your fingers or hands.

 

[Marin]

Our diesel shop uses a variety of techniques to lift and support engines when changing mounts or doing work that requires the engines to be lifted. Depending on the boat's configuration they use bottle jacks, chain hoists, heavy-duty airbags built for this kind of job, and often a very handy tool called a Porta-Power.

This is a manually operated hydraulic system that can be used to power a variety of accessories to lift things, push things apart, pull things together, pry things apart, etc. I bought one years ago for a specific job that I was told might or might not require it. Naturally, since I bought the thing, I didn't need it. But it's a pretty neat device for the kinds of jobs its designed to do. Apparently our diesel shop uses it a lot.

 

[Tom.B]

Is boatdiesel.com really worth it? I've been looking for a good resource for info on my older Perkins 6.354, but really haven't found one yet.

 

[timjet]

Boatdiesel.com cost nothing to browse. The Perkins forums have 8 sub-categories.In my case I have gained much knowledge about my high*performance*Cummins diesel and saved a bunch of money to boot because of boatdiesel.com.
I believe it was $50 to join for a year. I've saved that money and much much more by the info I've gained from that web site.

 

[timjet]

Rick,You've got some great ideas, but the fender idea is not one of them

Putting that much pressure on my oil pan would probably crush it or at least bend it. I wouldn't recommend that procedure.

 

[Tom.B]

timjet wrote:Boatdiesel.com cost nothing to browse.

Actually, as a guest, there isn't that much to see. Most all of it is blocked. It also looks like some very odd forum sofware. It doesn't look categorized. Just looks like a list. I definately would ante up if the content is there, the problem is that I can't see enough to know the intrinsic value. (Did I spell that right?)

 

[RickB]

timjet wrote:Putting that much pressure on my oil pan would probably crush it or at least bend it. I wouldn't recommend that procedure.

"I cut a piece of 3/4 ply about 1" square that fits on the oil pan where the jack will push on ..."

*Do the math ...


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 07:44:47 AM

 

[timjet]

Rick,That 1" x 1" ply piece I am referring to fits on the engine block where the oil pan attaches to the engine block, NOT the underneath portion of the oil pan.

 

[timjet]

GonzoF1,

Since I'm not a guest I'm not sure how much you can see. I do remember though that before I joined I was able to view all the subjects, but not all the replies.


I'm not sure what you are referring to when you mentioned organization. There are 8 sub*categories in the Perkins forums.


I found boatdiesel.com very helpful perhaps some won't in which case it would be a waste of money.

 

[RickB]

timjet wrote:

Rick,
That 1" x 1" ply piece I am referring to fits on the engine block where the oil pan attaches to the engine block, NOT the underneath portion of the oil pan.

Do the math.

If you have a fender that when inflated enough to contact the oil pan*over an area about the size of your shoe print* and inflate it to about 15 psi you will be able to lift around 600 pounds, probably the entire weight of your engine and transmission with only 15 pounds on each square inch of your oil pan. That thing isn't made of aluminum foil and I have yet to see a small engine that can't sit happily on its oil pan without damage, even when there is not the full contact an inflatable bladder will provide.

I can't count the number of times I have jacked up an engine to change mounts or work on the accessory drives and simply blocked it up with a 2X4 slipped across the bed rails under the pan for safety and to be able to remove the jack. The last time I used the fender trick because I couldn't get a jack far enough aft to do what I needed to do.

All you have to do is back off the forward engine mount nuts and take a small portion of the weight of the engine. Since all you need to do is to take the weight off a bolt, it will probably only require a few psi on the fender.


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 08:58:32 AM

 

[timjet]

Rick,
I understand the way you are describing and it makes sense as long as the area underneath the oil pan that is supporting the fender is flat or can be made so.

 

[JD]

timjet wrote:

Rick,
I understand the way you are describing and it makes sense as long as the area underneath the oil pan that is supporting the fender is flat or can be made so.

Flat has very little to do with it.* The fender spreads the load over an uneven surface as well.* It works.

*

 

[RickB]

It can be any shape, the bladder is conformal.* Even if you put a piece of plywood between them, the almost vertical sides of the oil pan will support the engine.*

The sides of the pan are (almost certainly) sheet*steel and are*in compression. They are*held in column by the bottom of the block and the bottom of the pan. That is why you can sit that engine on the parking lot on its pan and not do any damage. It is why a 2X4 slipped under the pan from side to side will support the engine with no damage either, despite its being supported by only a very small area.

Why do you think a boat doesn't just collapse into a heap when it is lowered onto keel blocks?




-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 10:20:09 AM

 

[FF]

Rick,
You've got some great ideas, but the fender idea is not one of them.

The origional system was used in the late 50's with a simple inner tube to pull VW and Porsche engines by back yard wrenches.

BTDT

 

[RickB]

FF wrote:

The origional system was used in the late 50's with a simple inner tube to pull VW and Porsche engines by back yard wrenches.

Yeah, but physics was different back then and oil pans were made by real men for real men.*

 

[Peter B]

It certainly should work. Over here in Aus, 4 wheel drivers use a type of inflatable bellows type of jack inflated by exhaust gas to get out of 'sticky' situations. They can lift huge weights and with no damage to bodywork for reasons Rick & JD mentioned.

 

[RT Firefly]

Hiya,
** FF,* what's this business of inner tubes for pulling VW engines?* I've pulled at least 50 VW engines without the inner tube (other than my belly)

 

[RickB]

RT Firefly wrote:I've pulled at least 50 VW engines without the inner tube (other than my belly)

Now there's an image to make you rub your eyes!

*

*

 

[Baker]

RickB wrote:

*

If you have a fender that when inflated enough to contact the oil pan*over an area about the size of your shoe print* and inflate it to about 15 psi you will be able to lift around 600 pounds, probably the entire weight of your engine and transmission with only 15 pounds on each square inch of your oil pan.


I am willing to bet a 6BT Cummins and it's transmission weigh a bit more than 600 pounds.....double that and then add all of the accessories(turbocharger,etc) and you will be around 1500lbs....without the tranny.


-- Edited by Baker on Monday 19th of July 2010 01:55:39 PM

 

[skipperdude]

RickB wrote:


RT Firefly wrote:

Now there's an image to make you rub your eyes!

*

*Or make something pucker for sure.



*

 

[RickB]

Well, just up the pressure until the weight is off the bolt then.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,Re: your 2nd post on page 3.
Two thirds of my oil changes are without changing the filter. I reason the filter can collect far more dirt than it can collect over several oil changes. When I change oil I change the filter every third time. Over half the time changing oil is so easy I'm more prone to do it. The oil after the change looks the same and totally clean even when I don't change the filter.
About the used gaskets in the OB carb * ... out here in the wilderness (we are in the wilderness) fixing things so they work properly is more important than doing things in the ideal way.
By the way * * ..Tom and Jan left Thorne Bay this morning for Ketchikan where they intend to spend a few days while a weather system passes through.


Eric

 

[Marin]

nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
Re: your 2nd post on page 3.
Two thirds of my oil changes are without changing the filter. I reason the filter can collect far more dirt than it can collect over several oil changes.

Well, you do as you like.* If you like leaving dirt in the engine after you add new oil, have at it.* I have yet to have a mechanic (automotive, aircraft, marine) tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine or leaving dirt in it after you change the oil is good.* Given the practially free cost of an oil filter compared to all the other costs of operating a car/plane/boat, not changing the oil filter when you change the oil seems*to me a totally*pointless thing to do.

As to re-using a gasket, sure, if you don't have a new one an old one is better than nothing although one runs the risk of having a problem if the old gasket doesn't seal up as well as it should.* This is why if I think I'm going to be somewhere where parts are hard to come by I try to carry things like gaskets for stuff I think might cause a problem while I'm out*there.* They don't weigh anything, they don't take up enough room to worry about, and they're cheap.

The other reason for doing this is because anything you have spares for will never crap out on you in the boonies.* Only the things you don't have a spare forwill crap out.* So when I took my still-new Land Rover to the Yukon for a couple of months back in the 1970s I carried spares for all sorts of things-- brakes, carburetor, fuel pump, and on and on and on.* The only thing that gave us a bit of a problem near the end of the trip was the slave cylinder for the clutch, which I didn't have a spare for.

*

 

[Arctic Traveller]

GonzoF1 wrote:

Is boatdiesel.com really worth it? I've been looking for a good resource for info on my older Perkins 6.354, but really haven't found one yet.

Gonzo,* these engines are dirt simple, what do you want to know?.......................Arctic Traveller

*