New OR Members Planning Great Loop Adventure

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TigardSkogs

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2024
Messages
6
Vessel Name
MYStique
Vessel Make
Trawler not purchased yet. Monk 36?
Thanks very much to the Trawler Forum for being such a valuable resource!
We are a newly-retired couple with many years of small boat experience, living on an island with boat-only access. How do you get a (refrigerator, carpet, table saw...) onto the island? It goes in the 14 foot jonboat!

Now we're ready for a new adventure, and have chosen to pursue a long-held dream of cruising the Great Loop! We've been researching, training and chartering, knowing that owning and running a large boat requires different skills and breaking some bad small-boat habits. (Like "when in doubt, gas it!" is a particularly bad habit for a larger boat!) We're not newbies by any means, having done our own outfitting several times, but we're definitely stepping up in weight class, by a couple steps!

We have a range of maybe ten boat designs that we're interested in, 15 to 25 years old in the 35 to 40 foot range. We're not focused on one particular design, but types like a Monk 36, Mariner 40 Europa, North Pacific 39 and the other makes that are similar to those three styles.

Our big decision is whether we buy a boat in the Pacific Northwest and do our learning locally, versus jumping in with both feet and buying a boat that's in the East on the Loop. We know there's no way to decide that other than to choose; coming soon!

There's our Welcome Mat introduction; we look forward to learning, exchanging experiences and data, and having some big-big fun! Thanks again for the learning opportunity!

TigardSkogs
Oregon
 
Welcome to the TF!

If you buy in the PNW, what would you do for the loop?
Sell that new to you boat and buy on the East coast?
Have two boats? One East and one West.
Truck the PNW boat overland to get to the loop?
Cruise South around Central America to go East?
 
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The Loop Boat Decision:

You two Gurus have summarized our decisions perfectly! The simple answer is "Yes." Making the final choice and saying "No" to all but one path is complicated.

Yes, we have to spend more for what might be the same boat in the PNW, and the selection is more limited than looking all across the eastern half of the USA. That's a bummer that might direct our choice.

1. We could buy and learn with the best boat we can find in the PNW, staying close to our home base and family, and
a. We could put only sweat equity into that imperfect boat and spend as little cash as possible while learning what we'd really prefer, and then sell it, buying something the same or different out on the Loop after a year or so.
b. We could decide that it's pretty close to the perfect boat for us, and spend both sweat equity and cash making it our own while learning, and then truck it to Green Bay for $30k or so (assuming we got something of a truck-able size.)
c. We could buy something bigger in the PNW (but not too big for the Loop) and after we're comfortable with it, cruise the west coast to the Panama Canal. Delays for Weather considering that the boat's still small, of course. That would certainly add to the adventure.

2. We could skip all of that and dive right in, buying from a larger pool of boats and maybe saving a buck or two in (take your pick) Lake Michigan. Carolinas. Chesapeake. Toronto. Etc. That would be an easier Snap decision if there weren't grandchildren and parents in the mix.

3. Two boats? Not unless our new best friends on the TF contribute generously to our Boat Fund. Big smile, feeling the love here in Tigard.

Many thanks for helping us articulate the thoughts,
TigardSkogs
 
Welcome aboard. With big boats you indeed don’t gas it. Remember slow is pro.

As far as where to buy a boat I would recommend that you buy your last boat first. As someone that has owned 24 boats swapping out boats is not a money maker. I would do a lot of research and then buy the loop boat. Will it be perfect, absolutely not. But just try to get close and then enjoy it. Buy it on the east coast almost anywhere since you will be looping. Get some training on a bigger boat, likely your insurance company will require it anyway since you are making a big jump in size. I would not buy a west coast boat unless it is capable of going through the Panama Canal. Otherwise you will have to sell it and buy another boat, think loosing a lot of money.
 
If you could compromise on size consider getting something like a Ranger Tug, 31 foot, with a trailer, and then you could use it in the PNW. Then simply truck it or have it trucked, at a much lower cost, than a larger 36-40 foot boat. But it would be a cost of space.

I have thought about doing something like that and then use the boat to sleep on while you travel across the country to start The Loop.

Just a thought.
 
Wecome to TF and congrats on the retirement!

If the goal is to do the loop I would just find your boat there. I don't want to belittle it but much of the loop is protected waters and just a series of day trips. You already have boating experience so you could hone some skills like navigation and lock passage as you go. It is not like you will need skills, equipment and training for extended ocean passages with days or weeks outside of assistance. Many loopers who complete the journey have little or no boating experience. You might need to (for insurance) or probably will want to take some boating courses/training which you could do while searching for your boat. Could be done on either or both coasts.just does seem to be any compelling reason to buy on the west coast if your goal is the loop.

Seems you have a good grasp on the issues and variables so probably my view or that of others should not be much of a factor in your decision. You know the options so it comes down to making a general plan (budget, time and effort/risks) for each option and coming to agreement with your spouse on what is best for you.

If you buy in PNW ultimately you will have spent more money and delayed the start of your trip. So my suggestion is to just do it and pick the course of action that moves your dream to a reality sooner vs later and fits within your budget. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
Also, Join the AGLCA... tons of info there.


And while the Loop is a lot of easy protected water runs, there IS a lot of open water that requires careful weather planning.... inlets on the east coast, Chesapeak Bay, NJ, Great Lakes, Mobile Bay and crossing the Gulf. Training is a must.
 
There is a series on You Tube called the "on fire family" chasrobertson@frontier.com. They are from Portland, OR and previously ran a 34" Tollycraft. They have several videos on picking out a boat in the east and buying it and then chronicled their loop. At the end they did 6 videos recapping the loop and what they learned on the trip.
I think they bought a boat in St. Louis and the first smart move was hiring a captain to take them to the great lakes, showing them ropes along the way.
 
If you're ready to go now, and The Loop is your goal, does it really make sense to learn in the PNW? What will you learn? The PNW has some of the worlds great cruising, but if your goal is The Loop, do The Loop.

Here's a hard and fast rule: the most difficult part of any cruise is the first boat length - just cutting dock lines and getting underway. There's always an excuse/reason to put it off, something always lurking that needs more prep.

I think one challenge is the perfect boat for the PNW (cool, moist weather) is not the perfect boat for The Loop where there's a lot of outdoor living in hot weather so shaded spaces are favored. A Wallas diesel stove is prized in the PNW but is the worst possible cooking appliance in Florida.

A final tip - boats in the upper Midwest tend to be time capsules. They often spend half the year in climate controlled barns and show very little wear and tear compared to a Florida based counterpart. They are sometimes light on electronics, but for me, Midwest based boats often catch my eye because they age so beautifully. The "Kristy Brinkley" of boats.

Good luck. Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of good.

Peter
 
I would get a boat in the east coast, pick a boat suitable for the loop (short runs, low water and air draft, and easy side access for locking). The loop is pretty easy cruising and a good way to get started.

Along the way you will learn the basics of boat operation and maintenance, discover how much you actually like boating, and figure out a ton about what you really want in a boat longer term.

Then when you are done, sell the boat to the next looper and assuming you want more boating in your life, get a boat suitable for the PNW and resume cruising there.
 
Wow, Some Really Good Advice

Thanks to all you Gurus and Veterans for taking the time to chime in with all good thoughts.

After dreaming for a long-long time we've been planning and learning for a couple of years, having joined AGLCA and attending TrawlerFest seminars, taking a 3-day Intro To Cruising course and then chartering on our own for a week, Anacortes Yacht Charters has been very supportive. We've previously rented houseboats on the Trent-Severn and canal boats in France, while getting over 1000 engine hours on small boats in the past 20 years. ("Yes, we have our Boater Ed cards!")

We hope that our Boater Resume built from those experiences will comfort the insurance companies, we'll see.

We did actually follow "Family on Fire" during their adventure, and know from that and (many) other blog posts like "Life on Sweet Day" (Camano 31 Troll) that Newbies can do the Loop successfully.

So yes, the Great Loop is our long-held dream, but becoming Cruisers is the Goal. And being closer to aged parents and very young grandchildren in 2024 will be a Good Thing, so rather than delaying the whole adventure, we might start out here. The best financial decision would absolutely, clearly be to dive into Loop waters, but we might choose to spend some $$$ to stay close.

What will we decide? We'll let you know!

A detail note in response to trihartsfield's good Trailering idea: we know that lots of Ranger Tug 27's and 31's complete the Loop, but after chartering the Helmsman 31 (Camano Troll) we decided that we needed something bigger. Having a walk-around together with more interior space drives us to 13+ foot beam.
 
Oh, and thanks also to Peter for pointing out the upper Midwest boat opportunity. Yes, if we're buying on the Loop we would love to find the right boat there. When people ask where we'll buy the new-to-us boat (it could be anywhere) we always include "Traverse City, Michigan." There's a Barn Find of a 2007 Monk 36 on Lake Huron that's pretty spendy, but it illustrates the point that one might find a low-hour but well-used boat on fresh water.
 
I have a boat on the west coast of southern Florida and as much as I would like to Loop it there is just too much boredom coming down to the Gulf from the Great Lakes for me .Though I would like to run up the east coast to New Founland taking my time without the rush than back down the coast to the Bahamas for winter.

If I already lived in the PNW and had a boat there I would cruise there for a few years and enjoy that natural beauty it has to offer and make your way south during the winters to Mexico . I think cruising over there without the time schedule you have on doing the Loop would be so much more relaxing and enjoyable .

It seems the blogs I read from loopers they are constantly on the go without smelling the flowers , granted there is not always pretty flowers but you never know what you may find and desire to lay over for 3-4 days or a week.

I cruised all over the Great Lakes on my dads Hughes 48 yawl back in the 70s and spent many a days glad we didn’t have to move or there was another port only a 20 miles away, back when they were very commercial yet.

The Great Lakes are nice and really nice in a few locations but I think they can’t compare to the Pacific NW .

Just my opinion, Dog Pile me if you must.
 
mvweebles said:
If you're ready to go now, and The Loop is your goal, does it really make sense to learn in the PNW? What will you learn? The PNW has some of the worlds great cruising, but if your goal is The Loop, do The Loop.

Here's a hard and fast rule: the most difficult part of any cruise is the first boat length - just cutting dock lines and getting underway. There's always an excuse/reason to put it off, something always lurking that needs more prep.

I think one challenge is the perfect boat for the PNW (cool, moist weather) is not the perfect boat for The Loop where there's a lot of outdoor living in hot weather so shaded spaces are favored. A Wallas diesel stove is prized in the PNW but is the worst possible cooking appliance in Florida.

A final tip - boats in the upper Midwest tend to be time capsules. They often spend half the year in climate controlled barns and show very little wear and tear compared to a Florida based counterpart. They are sometimes light on electronics, but for me, Midwest based boats often catch my eye because they age so beautifully. The "Kristy Brinkley" of boats.

Good luck. Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of good.

Peter
Click to expand...

I spent a couple winters up in Michigan with friends a few years back. My buddy had his formula SS cruiser in a heated hangar in grand haven along with 4 other buddies boats. Every weekend we were off to the hangar to strip the wax and rub on two more coats as were every one else in the barn. It’s insanity how much time they can spend maintaining a boat to ditch their wives all winter ��

My brother up in Michigani has a 1984 39 foot dark blue Sea Ray that looks like it just came off the showroom floor along with the whole cabin has been modified and updated.
 
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Slo-Mocean said:
I have a boat on the west coast of southern Florida and as much as I would like to Loop it there is just too much boredom coming down to the Gulf from the Great Lakes for me .Though I would like to run up the east coast to New Founland taking my time without the rush than back down the coast to the Bahamas for winter.

If I already lived in the PNW and had a boat there I would cruise there for a few years and enjoy that natural beauty it has to offer and make your way south during the winters to Mexico . I think cruising over there without the time schedule you have on doing the Loop would be so much more relaxing and enjoyable .

It seems the blogs I read from loopers they are constantly on the go without smelling the flowers , granted there is not always pretty flowers but you never know what you may find and desire to lay over for 3-4 days or a week.

I cruised all over the Great Lakes on my dads Hughes 48 yawl back in the 70s and spent many a days glad we didn’t have to move or there was another port only a 20 miles away, back when they were very commercial yet.

The Great Lakes are nice and really nice in a few locations but I think they can’t compare to the Pacific NW .

Just my opinion, Dog Pile me if you must.
Click to expand...


For starters, you're a bit off base on the loop. One can take all the time you want and smell all the roses you want... one's choice.



On my loop of 246 total days, I had 95 days of no travel to smell whatever I wanted and numerous short days when I had a good half day of smelling.



As for the inland rivers from Chicago southward to Mobile, there's tons of great stops, anchorages and fun spots.


If you haven't been there or don't want to do it, don't inflict your inaccurate "opinions"... they are worthless.
 
We are also in the PNW and have thought semi-seriously about doing the loop.

Agree with all of the recommendations to get a boat on the East Coast rather than trying to take one there and back. It is much less hassle; buying and reselling should save $ over shipping one two ways; and the average loop boat is probably different than the average PNW boat (for instance: more electric and perhaps multiple A/Cs).

Agreed also that with your current boating "resume" you're in great shape to go do the loop. Maybe a day or two of captain hire just for fine tuning and Q&A vs. the PNW (example: inland rules if you're used to international). Most of the learning will arise by doing!
 
Seevee said:
For starters, you're a bit off base on the loop. One can take all the time you want and smell all the roses you want... one's choice.



On my loop of 246 total days, I had 95 days of no travel to smell whatever I wanted and numerous short days when I had a good half day of smelling.



As for the inland rivers from Chicago southward to Mobile, there's tons of great stops, anchorages and fun spots.


If you haven't been there or don't want to do it, don't inflict your inaccurate "opinions"... they are worthless.
Click to expand...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just not a fan of slugging down a brown river for a month.
 
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Slo-Mocean said:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just not a fan of slugging down a brown river for a month.
Click to expand...

I think that it's worth trying once. Many don't like it, some do. I'm a dedicated brown water cruiser.

Many Loopers will say that the best parts are in the northern great lakes and the worst parts are the rivers. So if you get up to Georgian Bay from Florida you may as well keep going just to see for yourself.

But yeah, I agree with heading for Newfoundland.
 
Jeff F said:
I think that it's worth trying once. Many don't like it, some do. I'm a dedicated brown water cruiser.

Many Loopers will say that the best parts are in the northern great lakes and the worst parts are the rivers. So if you get up to Georgian Bay from Florida you may as well keep going just to see for yourself.

But yeah, I agree with heading for Newfoundland.
Click to expand...

I'm probably just a little warped having seen it done it on the Great Lakes for a decade plus cruising them back in the day, as may some PNW's may feel about their cruising grounds and think the grass is greener on the other coast.

I have friends and family with boats up north that I jump on for a week once up in the straits but its not the same for me anymore. Places changed in 45 years and it kind of messes with some of my great memories.

Towards the end of owning our sailboat Georgian Bay ,Tobermory, Harbor Springs, Round Lake, Lake Charlevoix, , North Port, Leland and harbors in between were a nice enjoyable 3 month cruise from our home port of Holland. . We would usually get weathered in and miss the first couple days of school but dads opinion was you dont learn anything the 1st week of school anyways . Shows in my English composition huh ?

1977 was one of those Michigan years of if it wasn't blowing it was raining or both and though the Hughes was a center cockpit with a full eisin glass enclosure it was no fun for me a 100 pound kid to deal with a heavy 150% Genoa on a 68' stick in unpredictable weather.

We spent a week weathered in by high wind and cold rain in Northport but so many great memories that week .The little Albin 30 next to us had 4 boys on board our age with one of them being Mikey from the Life cereal commercial who was a hoot as were his brothers.

Everyone piled on our boat with me and my sisters and brother and we played endless raucous games of spoons and Fish while swigging down gallons of Coca Cola and pigged out on grilled cheeses and hot dogs from noon till dark interrupted by runs downtown to the ice cream shop .

Mom and dad had enough sense to abandon ship and rented a car and got the heck out of Dodge until the dust settled every night, avoiding the complete hilarity and chaos .

That year we only made it as far north as Harbor Springs because of a late start and weather .

Coming home mid August we were weathered in again in Leland . My older sister and I woke to the news on the one radio station we could get that Elvis had died and though we were not Elvis fans after 3 days of nothing but Elvis ,we were soon fans .

Sunup to sundown of Elvis accompanying us to endless checkers and backgammon while swigging Cokes and pigging out on fresh smoked walleye.

Good Times
 
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Slo-Mocean said:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just not a fan of slugging down a brown river for a month.
Click to expand...

You did say "pile on me".... so I did. Just wanted to set the record straight as to what the loop trip was like. For a lot of folks, including me, it was one of the best trips of my life.

And the "brown" inland river has a lot of clear spots and great anchorages as well as quaint and interesting marinas. And Michigan is also fun, but you're right about watching the weather.

Also, the loop is very "social". Meet a lot of nice folks. If you don't like people, the loop is probably not for you.
 
Slo-Mocean said:
It seems the blogs I read from loopers they are constantly on the go without smelling the flowers , granted there is not always pretty flowers but you never know what you may find and desire to lay over for 3-4 days or a week.
Click to expand...

Not dogpiling here, but the Loop - like everything else in life - is what you make of it.

Most of the Loopers we've met who were also bloggers or vloggers aren't necessarily in it because they love boats or boating, they're in it because it's an opportunity to do something others may find interesting and/or to gain or please followers. My point is that using them as any sort of reference for what the loop is or how it's going to be for anyone else isn't always the best source. Their goals don't necessarily align with others for whom doing the Loop is a dream.

For instance, Scho and Jo - I love those guys and watch their videos with my wife - but they're not boaters. Their channel was built on showing others the things they do when they travel. In fact, doing the Loop was something they chose to do rather than RVing - because they figured it was best for their channel. And they're selling their boat now that they're done and will likely move to some other "adventure" to keep the channel going. This isn't a knock on them - they're tremendously popular for a reason and even the AGLCA realized it and took advantage of it - and because of them, the Loop is now more well-known among non-boaters.

I'm an old US Navy River Rat and have wanted to live on the water since I left all those years ago. I finally made the push in 2020 thanks to Covid. And while I played my hand at sailing, I ended up back at my roots in a power boat built for rivers and low coastal waters.

We plan to pretty much live on the Loop and explore every possible place she can take us, while trying to follow the weather and stay out of the ice, not because it's something we think we can blog or vlog about, but because we love the water and we love boating and exploring all the paths less traveled - even (especially) by Loopers who are just doing it to do it.

"How long does it take?" is the number one question we get asked the most from non-boaters. And our answer is "For us, forever."

For the OP: My advice is to buy something already on, or near, the Loop - unless you're made of money. There is no shortage of capable, ready boats in and around it - although there are seasons where it's easier to find them depending on the location. Just make a list of what you must have and keep looking until you find that boat - don't settle no matter how long it takes. Then set a date, prep, provision, and on that day, cast off the lines and go.

If your dream is to do the Loop, then do it - and do it your way no matter what.
 
I would love to do the loop! But I did something stupid, I married a younger women! I am retired, she is not.

Most likely you are going from gas to diesel. If so, find a good mechanic that can go over the new boat with you. Changing fuel filters and other things that are just plainly different than a gas engine.

For me, going from a 30' to a 40 footer was a world of difference. You might want to stay local for the first year. Get to know the boat on handling, electrical systems and how to manage the house batteries and inverter power. Are there any problems that need to be fixed?

Plus, you may want to add some upgrades that are needed. Or just to make the boat more easier to live aboard.
 
DBG8492 said:
Not dogpiling here, but the Loop - like everything else in life - is what you make of it.

For the OP: My advice is to buy something already on, or near, the Loop - unless you're made of money. There is no shortage of capable, ready boats in and around it - although there are seasons where it's easier to find them depending on the location. Just make a list of what you must have and keep looking until you find that boat - don't settle no matter how long it takes. Then set a date, prep, provision, and on that day, cast off the lines and go.

If your dream is to do the Loop, then do it - and do it your way no matter what.
Click to expand...
This is pretty good advice. The hardest and most important point, I bolded. Perfectionists never do the loop. There is always something that must be completed before they can leave. To often it becomes all about the perfect boat and an idyllic unrealistic expectation. The trip often ends with health issues before casting off.
For me, the boat is a big part of it. I grew up around Suttons Bay and Northport Michigan and was on the water or fixing boats all summer as a kid.
The journey and people are also a big part of doing the loop. I am never bored with 7 knots and any scenery. My wife is the same way.

In my experience, the number of people who dream about doing the loop vs those that actually do the loop, being generous, is probably around 10,000:1. I first heard about the loop in the late 60's and wanted to do it. Every year a couple of loopers would drop anchor in Suttons Bay and I would go out and talk to them.
That was 55 years ago. Life got in the way and the perfect boat was always sailing towards my dock but never tied up. I longed to do the loop but nearly became just another dreamer. A few years ago I was introduced to a life training program in emotional intelligence called Next Level Trainings and perused it enough to realize that perfection is the enemy of excellence. No more dreaming. Time to pull the trigger. Doing the loop is excellence, having everything fit into my expectations is perfection. I am free to make mistakes and still go.
My wife has agreed to only work full time to age 65. She enjoys her job. I told her I needed two years to find and equip the right boat so that began in October 2022. I knew what boat would work for us so I found one and bought it. Still hanging out with Stu and Pid, (two characters that seem to hang around me), I bought the fixer upper. Now I could afford the turn key boat but, can fix everything and like working on boats. I would also need to modify any boat for my wife's handicaps. Dumb, I could not access every area I needed to. Had rotator cuff surgery in October and on the mend. Almost ready to fit into tight spaces and work, YES!, still dumb, I could not bring myself to buy the turn key boat.
Bought the boat in Louisiana and needed the boat in Ohio, I set a date and cast off without much of what I wanted done. Over half the loop to bring it home. Boat did fine and now I know what things I want in the boat.
I will cast the line off for a multi year adventure in early summer of 2025 IF, our health holds up. I might yet be a tire kicker that never was, look and Semi.
 
Iggy said:
I would love to do the loop! But I did something stupid, I married a younger women! I am retired, she is not.
Click to expand...

Same :D

But I am not retired - I still do IT work from the boat and make more than enough money to support both of us.
 
Neil
Welcome aboard TF.
One option I dont think has been discussed is to charter a boat of the size / type you might be interested in while on the W coast. It's an opportunity to figure out what you know / don't know and get some practice & possibly training closer to home.
Searching & buying somewhere on or closer to the loop will be more economical. Many loopers buy a boat specifically to do the loop and sell it once completed. If you find one of those it will be more likely ready to go vs needed extensive mods if it was a dock queen and used for shorter cruises.
 
I don’t wish to hijack the thread, but would be interested to know how you would rate the French canal barge charter. 1-10? Worth the effort and cost?
 
Thanks again for weighing in, Group.
Bacchus, we have indeed chartered ourselves after taking a couples' multi-day training course. Both are much easier here in the Pacific Northwest than in most areas of the country, we've found. We used Anacortes Yacht Charters,. but there are several other worthy Charter Operations in the area. We trained on a Navigator 42, and chartered a Helmsman 31 (successor to the Camano Troll), and those experiences were what led us to decide that 36 - 40 feet was the right size for us.

CCS, I'll start a new thread to address your question about Canal Cruising in France.
 
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