New member - sail to power

[OldManMirage]

Howdy from Jacksonville Fl. We are long time boaters - both power and sail - but we've owned mostly sailboats. We've been planning to do some long term cruising upon retirement and we always figured it would be on a sailboat. Well, our minds - and our bodies - are changing that way of thinking !

We currently own a 32 Endeavour sailboat but we'll probably put her on the market soon. We do enjoy sailing but...ha-ha. I'm sure a lot of you know the answers to that one. More walk around space and a bit less work. My wife especially is finding it more and more difficult to handle the lines for sailing. So we are looking to "make the change."

Like many before us we plan to start small, both size and budget wise. We are considering the usual suspects. Prairie 29's, GB 32's, Mainship 34's. I'm open to any suggestions for other models too.

Our background is 30 plus years of boating here in NE Florida. Largest powerboat was a 27 cruiser with a gas-sucking 454. We've long since learned that we don't care for go-fast, which is why we mostly enjoyed sailing.

Look forward to the journey !

 

[backinblue]

Welcome aboard. Many of us here are in the same "boat" being former sailors. There are endless options. We chose a downeast style, single diesel, not really a trawler regardless of what it says on the Mainship documents. As many will tell you, fuel is a very small part of the cost of ownership/use. One word of caution is that many sailors say "speed is not important" thinking 6-7 knts in a straight line every day would be magical. Just know that 7 knts sailing is flying, but not that exciting when powering.

 

[mvweebles]

Welcome. As a recovering sailor considering power, you have a lot of company, especially here at TF!

From the boats you listed, sounds like you're drawn towards sedan style layouts (as am i). Island Gypsy also makes a 32 footer similar to GB32. Californian 30 is another.

A bit smaller but will laid out is the Rosborough 26. Personally, I like the outboard version. OBs have come a long way.

A little bigger and more traditional is my favorite, the Willard 36. Older, and most are a bit long in the tooth, but very capable. But at 36 ft, there are a lot of choices. The Albin 36 Express Trawler is a sedan layout, though with larger engines.

Another boat that caught my eye is the Albin TE series (tournament express - yep, sport fishers). I forget the sizes, but there is a single around 30 ft, and twin around 34 or 35 ft. While definitely burn more at higher speeds, relatively economical at 15 kts.

Good luck with your transition. Few go the other direction.

Peter

 

[PM]

Welcome to the dark side. We have a lot of converts.

You should consider buying your last boat first. In todays fluctuating market buying and selling a boat can be a PIA. To plan to buy and sell even two boats in your future does not make a lot of sense.

Shop a little bigger. Say, 36 - 40 foot trawler that checks all your boxes. I think you will be happier.

pete

 

[Osprey69]

Same here. Was going to keep the 40' sailboat in New England and one trip back this summer convinced us otherwise. Just not worth the trouble expense etc after sailing for 50 years.

We are in JAX on our version of the dark side so if you want to chat 3D, PM me.

 

[bobc]

I made the same transition from a Cape Dory 27. When I first started shopping for a stink-pot I thought a GB32 would be the right boat, but I ended of with a Defever 34, which I refer to as a GB32 with elbow room. It was the right choice for me, and one I've never regretted. Here are what I consider the pros.

• Large aft cockpit on the same level as the main cabin.
• Great visibility out of the main cabin and lots of light. This is really important because I don't care about weather now. I hated being stuck below at anchor in my sailboat when it was cold and/or raining outside.
• Easy to single hand with wide side decks and a door at the lower helm station. It's one step from the helm to the midship cleat and getting to the foredeck never feels unsafe.
• Dry boat. The GB32's don't have any flare in the bow.
• Full displacement hull with soft chines and a large rudder any blowboater would love for both handling and fuel economy (1.5 gph)
• Very good engine access.
• Transom door.
• Huge upper (party) deck and flybridge
• Can carry enough fuel to go 1000 miles, which in reality means that I usually only buy fuel every other year during the winter when prices are lower.

As for the con's I only have one, the lack of a queen-sized berth like they have in the American Tug 34's.

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Don’t buy too small of a boat or you may be selling it in a year or two. We are on our 24th boat, 1 was a sailboat.

 

[backinblue]

Welcome aboard. Don’t buy too small of a boat or you may be selling it in a year or two. We are on our 24th boat, 1 was a sailboat.

Sounds like you'd need to buy/sell every year or 2 to keep up with you Dave!

 

[Cold Duck]

Everyone has given great advice. No matter how big you get, you will want bigger. We went 70ft and realized too big, not handling but just the sheer maintenance. Also getting into places. 30-40ft will be quite comfortable and provide all the room you need ( note not the room you want LOL). We like flybridge but as you get older, climbing a ladder to get there becomes a chore. That's what sold us on the MS350, a staircase that makes going up a breeze. Gotta start thinking of those things as we age out. PS, also an old sailor. Sailed for 2 years west coast Central America. Nothing like a nice breeze sailing into Acapulco bay as the sun comes up. Miss those sailing days.

 

[mvweebles]

Everyone has given great advice. No matter how big you get, you will want bigger. We went 70ft and realized too big, not handling but just the sheer maintenance. Also getting into places. 30-40ft will be quite comfortable and provide all the room you need ( note not the room you want LOL). We like flybridge but as you get older, climbing a ladder to get there becomes a chore. That's what sold us on the MS350, a staircase that makes going up a breeze. Gotta start thinking of those things as we age out. PS, also an old sailor. Sailed for 2 years west coast Central America. Nothing like a nice breeze sailing into Acapulco bay as the sun comes up. Miss those sailing days.

I sorta agree. I'm sure a few folks give up cruising because their boat is too small. But I suspect 10x more abandon it due to being overwhelmed by complexity and expense of maintenance. A larger boat does not have to equate to complexity, but owners certainly tend to check a lot of boxes when equipping them.

A lot to be said for going as small as you need, not as large as you can afford.

Peter.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. I was on a sailboat, once....once.

 

[OldManMirage]

Thanks all, for many great replies with good thoughts to consider too.

I know it's a cliche to say that "my next boat is my last boat." But I do feel like I'm closing in on that time. My main concern is having more boat than I can take care of. The 32 foot sailboat I have now sometimes feels like more boat than I want to clean, and more bottom than I want to scrub.

We've made simliar choices on our camper. We have a bumper pull Apex Nano 213RDS. It's really worked out well for us. Yes, we would love just one more foot in the bedroom and one more foot in the bathroom. I mean really, it's like they force you into a bigger model with the way they design these things sometimes. But all in all we love this camper, and she's super easy to pull and manuveur into campsites.

I'm trying to use the same philosphy on my next boat. Especially since it's always me who's doing the cleaning and maintenance. And it's likely I'll be soloing quite a bit, so again, smaller will be better for me.

Last but certainly not least, to be perfectly frank my budget is small too. I am well familair with all the costs associated with owning a boat. I'm not quite where comodave is, but we have owned almost 20 different boats. I think at least 7 were power that I can remember. But smaller is always less expensive in the normal scheme of things, and I'd like to make sure I can keep it up whatever I end up with in bristol fashion.

But please, keep throwing your knowledgeable suggestion at me. You never know what might turn the tables !

 

[Cold Duck]

A lot to be said for going as small as you need, not as large as you can afford.

Peter.

Truer words where never said. Did the Bahamas in the 70fter anchoring 1/2 mile from the beach. If I did it again, I would do a 29ft Ranger tug, beach the damn thing, run 20kts to get there then cruise 5kts Cay to Cay with the AC on. I'd have to think twice about going past Chicken Harbor (Georgetown) in the 29fter, but been there and done that. Like they all say, every boat is a compromise based on your needs, your desires, your ability and your budget. Have fun looking. When the right one comes, you will know it.

 

[O C Diver]

The question I would ask the OP is, What's the longest number of days you and the Mrs have been on a boat together and what size?

The Loop (I've done it) is generally 9 months to years. You're carrying more stuff than cruising for a weekend, couple of weeks, or a month. While it can certainly be done on smaller boats, you will leave a lot home. Make a list of what you want to bring. Are you going to have a dinghy, bicycles, deck chairs, or a galley with more than a camping stove? This stuff all takes space. How often do you want to pump the holding tank at a marina (most of the loop is freshwater with no overboard discharge) or fill the water tank? As others have said, think a little bigger. Much under 40' is too close for me. The boat in my avatar is 45' and near the perfect Loop boat.

Ted

 

[AquaDestiny]

I agree with the comments about making sure you don't buy too small, but caution you to make sure where your sweet spot is. Mainly for me the concern of going too big is your maintenance costs increase exponentially with hull length. It is not a linear progression at all. My happy place is at 35ft.

 

[mvweebles]

When these topics come up on TF, there's always a drumbeat of "go bigger." At risk of stepping on some toes, I'll take a WAG and venture that the average TF poster is a bit older (past the halfway mark), and wants the comforts of home. Definitely requires a bigger boat.

But there are a few folks who find bigger boats distract from the overall experience of cruising. That said, you have to prioritize wants vs needs. I admit it's a struggle to prep a 36-footer to head south from Mexico with a higher level of self sufficiency than, say, The Great Loop. When I cruised SF Bay and Delta, I never thought about carrying a spare starter motor.

Reading between the lines of thr OP, I suspect he may be seeking a bit more austerity than what the TF bigger brain typically dispenses.

Peter.

 

[OldManMirage]

Yes, I am definitely a fan of the "KISS" principle. And usually it's easier - and less expensive - to keep things simple on a smaller boat. We've been married for 35 years, and we lived on a Catalina 27 sailboat for about 3 years. Granted we were much younger then, and I wouldn't really want to do that again. But there is a world of difference between a 27 foot sailboat and a trawler, even as small as the P29's.

As far as speed goes remember we are sailors, so 6-7 knots - in a straight line - is perfectly fine with us. Almost all of our boating and sailing has been on the St. John's river here in Jax so we have motored as much as we have sailed. We aren't looking to get anywhere in a hurry. In fact the opposite.

I'm not sure the Loop is in our future. Neither of us like cold weather. And since we are both native Floridians by cold we mean anything less than 60 degrees ! Lol. My wife does cold better than I do, but that's not saying much.

No, what I'd like to do is toodle around the ICW and do the Keys, and I would love to cross over to the Bahamas for a couple of months. And I'd like to do this for multiple seasons, as I already know once is not enough to stop and smell all the roses along the way. I'm pretty happy just being on the water most of the time.

So smaller will help me make it last, physically and financially. We are in good shape but we both are realistic when it comes to understanding our physical limitations are not what they used to be.

I did see an ad for one of the Atlantic 30's which I understand is essentially the same as the P29. I think I may prefer it's layout but they are not very common. I do like the GB32's but I would absolutely have to paint the woodwork. I have done enough teakwork to last a lifetime and I have ZERO interest in trying to maintain that much wood.

But the search is fun and ongoing.

 

[O C Diver]

Yes, I am definitely a fan of the "KISS" principle. And usually it's easier - and less expensive - to keep things simple on a smaller boat. We've been married for 35 years, and we lived on a Catalina 27 sailboat for about 3 years. Granted we were much younger then, and I wouldn't really want to do that again. But there is a world of difference between a 27 foot sailboat and a trawler, even as small as the P29's.

As far as speed goes remember we are sailors, so 6-7 knots - in a straight line - is perfectly fine with us. Almost all of our boating and sailing has been on the St. John's river here in Jax so we have motored as much as we have sailed. We aren't looking to get anywhere in a hurry. In fact the opposite.

I'm not sure the Loop is in our future. Neither of us like cold weather. And since we are both native Floridians by cold we mean anything less than 60 degrees ! Lol. My wife does cold better than I do, but that's not saying much.

No, what I'd like to do is toodle around the ICW and do the Keys, and I would love to cross over to the Bahamas for a couple of months. And I'd like to do this for multiple seasons, as I already know once is not enough to stop and smell all the roses along the way. I'm pretty happy just being on the water most of the time.

So smaller will help me make it last, physically and financially. We are in good shape but we both are realistic when it comes to understanding our physical limitations are not what they used to be.

I did see an ad for one of the Atlantic 30's which I understand is essentially the same as the P29. I think I may prefer it's layout but they are not very common. I do like the GB32's but I would absolutely have to paint the woodwork. I have done enough teakwork to last a lifetime and I have ZERO interest in trying to maintain that much wood.

But the search is fun and ongoing.

If I may make a suggestion, spend a day on a boat of that size, in the ocean with 3' seas. Sailboats enjoy some level of stabilization with a mast and keel, more so with some sail up. You may find yourself staying put significantly more days with a smaller power boat. There's nothing wrong with only traveling on nice days, but go in with your eyes open. The Great Lakes are small oceans where 3' seas regularly occur and bigger stuff I don't want to get caught in.

Ted

 

[diver dave]

We have been very happy with our sailcat. It's our first, and we came from a string of power boats. Here are some plusses:
* twin engine, with a pretty short range of around 260nm, but also 5nm/g @ 7kts.
* engines only take 1 Gallon of oil each, making changes offshore easy(er).
* very stable in seas; even without sails up, and even with no forward speed. In fact, the boat is great in powerboat mode.
* huge amount of space for a 38, since its a cat.
* easy to maneuver at dockside;turns on a dime.
* a bit of "stuff" in your way with forward viz; oh yeah, several more modes of propulsion!
* very easy engine access; but you have to get used to non-classic engine rooms.
* in first year, have crossed the GS 8 times now (two transits each season); even more confident now of the capabilities, which we haven't not yet pushed.
* we are opening a lot of bridges in the ICW; position holding is easy.
* not trying to make converts on a forum, just the facts

oh, but why dont they have rubrails on these things?

 

[backinblue]

If I may make a suggestion, spend a day on a boat of that size, in the ocean with 3' seas. Sailboats enjoy some level of stabilization with a mast and keel, more so with some sail up. You may find yourself staying put significantly more days with a smaller power boat. There's nothing wrong with only traveling on nice days, but go in with your eyes open. The Great Lakes are small oceans where 3' seas regularly occur and bigger stuff I don't want to get caught in.

Ted

Good point Ted. I'd point out that on many lakes and sounds much smaller than the great lakes can get more sporty than what I'd like to go out in. The ride in rough weather on a sailboat can be kind of fun, in a power boat it can be a bit grueling and strenuous. On the upside, you are warm and dry and don't have to break out the foul weather gear.

 

[Sababa]

I swear that a majority of the fellow Nordic Tug 37 owners I have met are former sailboaters. What they love above all else is the raised pilot house that affords great views and easy deck access to both sides while keeping you out of the weather. The great fuel economy at trawler speeds also makes takes the edge off of having to pay for propulsion. Though here in the PNW with our narrow passages and inconstant and often unfavorable winds, many of the sailboaters I’ve talked to decided to make the move when they realized that they were spending 90% of their time under power anyway.

 

[bobc]

...I would love to cross over to the Bahamas for a couple of months. And I'd like to do this for multiple seasons, as I already know once is not enough to stop and smell all the roses along the way. I'm pretty happy just being on the water most of the time.

I've never boated in Florida so I don't know what the requirements are, but my DeFever 34 has. The gentleman I purchased the vessel from moved it to Seattle from Miami. My understanding is that it made the trip to the Bahamas many times. The boat is almost 50 years old, and I always assume that the huge compass it has was for the longer passages (pre GPS and LORAN).

I've been in some pretty rough weather in the larger straights in the PNW. I'm pretty confident the boat can handle more than I can. That confidence is useful in a slow boat where you can't outrun the weather. I agree with O C Diver. Even small sailboats like my CD27 can handle the rough stuff, and even be fun when it gets sloppy. I don't think I'd like trying to go slow in a modern planing hull with a beam, or following sea.

If I had a small budget, I'd probably go for something turnkey. I've put more into my DeFever in repairs, upgrades and a repower than I did in the initial purchase price, and I do a lot of my own work. This is probably my last boat, so that's OK, but if I were in the market for something else I'd want fresh machinery and newer navigation equipment (chartplotter, radar,etc). Let the previous owner suffer the investment loss.

 

[Andiamo2018]

The biggest thing I like about the trawler over our sailboat is not thinking much about the tides. There are those lever thingies on the trawler and I just push them forward until the boat is going the speed I think it should go

Generally speaking I lean towards the idea of going for the smallest and most inexpensive boat first. As soon as you have gotten some good time in start looking for the boat that has what you have found you actually want and need. Selling a boat is a PITA but so is not having what you actually want and it is hard to know until you try it.

I would NOT recommend getting a fixer upper unless you really enjoy doing the work yourself. I DO enjoy doing the work myself and my budget requires it lol. I have a boat that is just what I want because I made it that way. BUT, even doing the work myself if I could have found a boat with that work done already it would have been much cheaper and easier. For me the fixing expenses were spread out over several years and I constantly reminded myself how much money I saved doing all the work myself to feel better about it. But really, other than cleaning, polishing and things of that nature it is just so much easier and cheaper to get something that is already 'done'.

There are some very popular brands of boats that are 'lightly built' to put it very, very generously. When it you are thinking of owning the same boat for more than 5 years you will want to avoid those brands unless you are getting it almost new.

 

[Jmarsh203]

Congrats on coming to the dark side, or at least thinking about it, looking like you are interested in smaller cruisers, the real question is what cruising grounds are you looking into. That kinda chooses the boat for you when looking at the smaller boats. If your looking at doing just the coast the boats you are looking at would fit the bill perfectly, if you start wanting to go to the Bahamas or Caribbean, ocean crossings, prolonged anchorages in remote areas you need a more capable boat than the three you were talking about. A 32 foot sailboat can travel the world, a 32 foot power boat cannot. A Willard 36 is probobly the smallest boat that has the capability and capacity of fuel to even consider a real ocean crossing and to my knowledge only one has and it’s still on the smaller side for crossings. Is absolutely a proven and capable carribean and open ocean boat though. But below 40ft the list is extremely small for those capabilities.

 

[OldManMirage]

Well I'm certainly not looking to cross any oceans with a trawler. I once had day-dreams of doing so in a sailboat but the reality is that's not likely to happen.

No, the only "ocean" we would want to cross is the 60 miles between Florida and the Bahamas. Hopefully island hop down the chain and make it to the Turks and Caicos. The same thing that a lot of people choose to do. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Budget constraints will limit us to the smaller end of things, but we are fine with that. It's the same way we have approached camping. And a 30-32 foot trawler will have more room than any sailboat we've ever owned so I think we'll be happy with the accommodations.

 

[O C Diver]

Well I'm certainly not looking to cross any oceans with a trawler. I once had day-dreams of doing so in a sailboat but the reality is that's not likely to happen.

No, the only "ocean" we would want to cross is the 60 miles between Florida and the Bahamas. Hopefully island hop down the chain and make it to the Turks and Caicos. The same thing that a lot of people choose to do. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Budget constraints will limit us to the smaller end of things, but we are fine with that. It's the same way we have approached camping. And a 30-32 foot trawler will have more room than any sailboat we've ever owned so I think we'll be happy with the accommodations.

If you choose to do the Great Loop, the common minimum distance to cross the Gulf of Mexico (Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs) is around 90 miles, overnight passage in a trawler.

Ted

 

[catalinajack]

If you choose to do the Great Loop, the common minimum distance to cross the Gulf of Mexico (Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs) is around 90 miles, overnight passage in a trawler.



Ted

Ted, the distance from Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs is 150 - 160 miles. That 90-mile number is more likely the distance from Carrabelle to Steinhatchee, the alternate route.

 

[O C Diver]

Ted, the distance from Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs is 150 - 160 miles. That 90-mile number is more likely the distance from Carrabelle to Steinhatchee, the alternate route.

You are correct, it's about 137 nautical miles.

Ted