MS 400 Twins - remote oil filter?

[garmstro55]

My starboard Yanmar has the oil filter on the outboard side of the engine, virtually unreachable by anyone other than an orangutan. I'd like to install a remote filter that I can reach. Has anybody with the same set-up done this and if so, can you get a picture? TIA

 

[Dougcole]

I've considered it, and kits are available. It's a pretty easy install, our old gulfstar had the stb filter remotely mounted and it worked great. Made for super easy oil changes.

What I can't decide on the mainship though is where to mount the filter? Maybe on the forward bulkhead of the er?

 

[keith c]

I know this is off subject, I know this is almost as bad as asking anchor type opinions but here I go. I have twin yanmar diesels with same problem. Oil or no oil in filter at start up?

 

[Comodave]

If you do it, get a quality kit not the cheapest one available. The last thing you want is a poor quality remote kit dumping your oil under load...

 

[Dougcole]

Mack Boring makes a kit, they are a reputable manufacturer. Not cheap though, about $450.00. Also, the hoses the come with the kit are 39" long, I'm not sure that is enough length to reach the fwd ER bulkhead. It would be enough to reach aft of the motor, but I'm not sure where you would mount it. Maybe build a bracket out of starboard that attaches to the ceiling? Perhaps there is enough space on the aft ER bulkhead, but it's pretty full and that's not an easy to reach area either.

 

[Comodave]

Mack Boring makes a kit, they are a reputable manufacturer. Not cheap though, about $450.00. Also, the hoses the come with the kit are 39" long, I'm not sure that is enough length to reach the fwd ER bulkhead. It would be enough to reach aft of the motor, but I'm not sure where you would mount it. Maybe build a bracket out of starboard that attaches to the ceiling? Perhaps there is enough space on the aft ER bulkhead, but it's pretty full and that's not an easy to reach area either.

They should make a good kit, they have a great reputation.

 

[Heap]

I have the same issue on my MS 400. I was considering the kit until I realized that in every year there is some sin I am guilty of and must atone for.

 

[Comodave]

My starboard engine oil filter is a PITA to get to. They even had to grind the top of the stringer down so that the filter would go through. It has about 1/16” clearance. Then I have to hold the filter up with my fingernails on the rolled over edge around the top and try to get it started to thread on. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes to get it started, sometimes over an hour. There is no way that I would consider filling the filter before putting it on because I would not be able to hold that much weight with my fingernails. Even though it is right side up I may put a remote filter on that engine.

 

[O C Diver]

I installed a remote oil filter system on a 6-71 Gray Marine with great results.

Here's a link to Summit Racing and all their offerings on remote oil filter systems:

https://www.summitracing.com/search...SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=Remote oil filter

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

Remote filters can be mounted to a bracket on the engine as well if there's a good spot, they don't have to be on a bulkhead or anything.

 

[catalinajack]

If you are going to mount a remote filter adapter consider a by-pass filtration head if you have the space. Two filters, one standard (usually 20 micron), the other 1-micron. Far fewer oil changes would then be neccesary.

 

[Dougcole]

Remote filters can be mounted to a bracket on the engine as well if there's a good spot, they don't have to be on a bulkhead or anything.

Interesting idea. Do you have a suggestion as to a good place?


Thanks.

 

[rslifkin]

Interesting idea. Do you have a suggestion as to a good place?


Thanks.

Not on your engines, unfortunately. My engines were built with remote filters from day 1, mounted to the port side exhaust risers. That does mean 1 filter is still outboard, but it can be reached sitting in front of the engine, no need to crawl all the way out there. Much better access than if they'd left the stock filter mounts on the blocks, which are mostly blocked by the stringers.

 

[Nomad Willy]

When I repowered I had a remote installed. But after several years of leaking problems took it out. Now when I change oil I leak a little unscrewing the filter .. that’s it. But I still have the plumbing used to facilitate the installation of the remote filter.
With the remote I had a filter w 3 times the volume of the OEM filter so I usually changed the oil filter every third time. I did two oil changes between filter changes.
I left the bracket that held the oil filter as it still holds the small Secondary fuel filter but more importantly it provides a stout foot step to use stepping down into the engine compartment. But I also step on the valve cover .. cast aluminum.

Edit;
One of the main reasons I had the remote installed was to get the filter mounted vertically w the open end of the filter up to essentially eliminate oil spill.

 

[Skipjack99]

Here is a picture of my install done by PO. Love it. Have had no issues with it in the 5 years of ownership.

 

[Dougcole]

Here is a picture of my install done by PO. Love it. Have had no issues with it in the 5 years of ownership.

Huh. I had not thought of mounting it horizontally. Thanks for the post.

 

[Skipjack99]

Real easy to change with no mess. Just drill a hole on the side, rotate 1/4 turn, drain in small container, replace.

 

[Xsbank]

That means you are installing a dry filter and remotely, which means a dry start and a few seconds running with no oil pressure. What could possibly go wrong?

If you mount a remote canister on your engine, read the specs and make sure it can endure the vibrations.

Summit Racing has all that stuff, get custom oil lines from a proper line shop for a neat install.

 

[rslifkin]

I do prefer vertical filters for the ability to partially pre-fill them. In most cases, they fill fast enough that it's a minor concern, but every little bit adds up.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Real easy to change with no mess. Just drill a hole on the side, rotate 1/4 turn, drain in small container, replace.

Wouldn’t drilling a hole on the side allow plenty of leakage? What is the oil level in a filter on an engine at rest? Change much w brand?
Would drilling a hole on top and rotating 180 degrees allow oil to pass by the main gasket? In other words would 1/2 a turn cause it to leak? I think I’ll try that next time I change. First I’ll just turn the filter 180 and see if oil leaks out past the big rubber gasket.

Also it seems like metal shavings from drilling the hole may get inside the engine.

 

[Dougcole]

Wouldn’t drilling a hole on the side allow plenty of leakage? What is the oil level in a filter on an engine at rest? Change much w brand?
Would drilling a hole on top and rotating 180 degrees allow oil to pass by the main gasket? In other words would 1/2 a turn cause it to leak? I think I’ll try that next time I change. First I’ll just turn the filter 180 and see if oil leaks out past the big rubber gasket.

Also it seems like metal shavings from drilling the hole may get inside the engine.

I generally punch a hole in the stb side filter with a phillips head screw driver and drain it into a gallon zip lock bag. Still get some mess when I pull the filter off though. The damn thing slips through my hand and gets under the engine every time I change it. I can't see how shavings would get in the engine since I throw the filter away after the hole is punched in it without running the engine.



I used to fill the new filter before install, and I still do that on the port side, but it was just too hard to get it screwed on the stb side without dropping it and getting oil everywhere. I pour in the new oil, run the motor for a few minutes, shut down, wait 10 minutes or so, then check the oil level. It seems to take about 1/2 quart to fill the filter. I don't think that's low enough to do any damage.


Still and all, I'd prefer to mount it vertically.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dougcole,
I prefer vertical too.
But I had more leak troubles w the remote setup vertically.
Last time I changed I put a rag or two (in my hand) under when I slowly un-screwed it. Must not have been that much in it as less than a half of a cup of oil came out .. maybe a bit more. Cleaned up fairly easily. I did some leaking out of the rags but just wiped it up.
By the way I let the engine totally cool (and I use 30wt oil) so it was quite viscous so easier to handle .. control.

 

[Xsbank]

Its not how much oil you need to top up after an oil change, its how long the engine runs cold with no oil pressure. Babbitt bearings are not intended to touch anything but the thin layer of oil that keeps the parts separated. If the oil film breaks down because there is no pressure, the (for example) crankshaft touches the babbit metal main bearing and almost instantly damages it.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Mr. Xbank,
I’ve never bought into that. Think of all the filters that get put in dry all the time. Think of two stroke engines and splash lube of a 49 Chevy. Look at all the cars that go to Jiffy Lube type places. Don’t know but I doubt many get their filters primed.

I think it only takes a thin film of oil to lube everything just fine.
HaHa but I almost always fill a filter when it’s vertical and open on top.

 

[catalinajack]

Why then haven't millions of engines that have filters wrong side up gone tits up over the years? This is simply not a problem. Never has been.

Its not how much oil you need to top up after an oil change, its how long the engine runs cold with no oil pressure. Babbitt bearings are not intended to touch anything but the thin layer of oil that keeps the parts separated. If the oil film breaks down because there is no pressure, the (for example) crankshaft touches the babbit metal main bearing and almost instantly damages it.

 

[rslifkin]

Time for the filter to fill at startup after a chance isn't going to kill an engine, but it can cause a tiny bit of extra wear that adds up over time. So if you're designing the setup and have a choice, I'd mount it with the filter upright and ideally not down so low that the lines drain when you pull the filter.

 

[Xsbank]

Thank you rslifkin.

Another anchor thread.

Out of curiosity only, how long do you think it’s safe for a cold engine to run without oil pressure? What’s the limit?

 

[rslifkin]

Thank you rslifkin.

Another anchor thread.

Out of curiosity only, how long do you think it’s safe for a cold engine to run without oil pressure? What’s the limit?

Personally, assuming the engine hasn't sat for all that long and still has a decent oil film, a few seconds at idle with no load is probably the limit. Personally, I always do oil changes warm, so it's run recently and will start quickly and right to low idle.

 

[Nomad Willy]

On most/all 4 stroke engines I’ll bet there’s more oil on the bearings that all pre-mix 2 stroke engines. There’s billions of them down through the years that lasted normal lives. If an engine has sat for over a year it may be questionable like rslifkin says “can cause a bit of extra wear” prolly is true but total fly stuff if that IMO.

But me being fussy I do fill the oil filter when I have the option. So obviously I think it is better to have plenty of oil at/on the bearings. But the bottom end of two stroke engines only have a light oil mist even at full load, rpm and heat. Modern engines have ball or roller bearings and don’t need to be flooded. But old ones didn’t.
I suspect that a bit over half of the oil filter is a void (w.o oil) every time one shuts off the engine. So running w/o oil pressure at startup may be reality of the day all the time every time. But there again I don’t know how much of the oil in the filter drains out at shutdown.

 

[rslifkin]

2 strokes have ball / roller bearings, but I don't know of any 4 stroke that does. They're all plain bearings.

As far as filter drainback, some designs do, but a lot of setups have a check valve on the inlet side of the filter to prevent drainback that way you're starting with a full filter every time.