Making the copilot feel safe...

[firehoser75]

I agree with all the other posts. Excellent advice. Knowledge is the best way to overcome fear. I just figured I would bring an additional angle to the forum, and help you think outside the box for a way forward.

I am blessed with an Admiral who loves cruising as much as I do. She is just as passionate about it as I am. Bottom line is that this is rare, and I appreciate it. I am very grateful, and I don't take it for granted. I'm sure none of us do.

First, a true story: A great friend of mine had a long-time dream to do The Great Loop. His wife was fine with The Loop, but a little nervous about retiring early, but together did a very commendable job of building a nest egg over their careers and 401Ks. TWO independent financial planners blessed their retirement plan. So she was good! They bought their Looper boat, worked their notices at work, and set off on The Loop. Nine months later he is still living his dream, but they divorced amicably, she moved back home, and got her old job back. They are both happy... they simply had different visions for how to spend their finite amount of time remaining in their life.

Thought 2:
There are many places you can do your boating. I don't know if you are in British Columbia or Florida, as I think either have areas called "Sunshine Coast". Today we live on the south shore of Long Island NY. There are ample places to go "on the inside" of the barrier islands, without having to "go outside" unless on a significant cruise (to NYC or Block Is. or eastern ports of Long Island.) In those cases, we can 1) pick our weather days, and 2) leave at sun-up and be destinated by 1:00pm when the winds typically pick up.

I wish you both well! Good luck!

Wish us luck, as we push off for our first Loop run this spring!

Just to be 100% clear... the true story is not offered as a "SOLUTION" per se!!! Rather, a true indicator of the high stakes that are sometimes in play.

Ray,
Good luck and much enjoyment on your first loop.
The OP is located on the east coast of Australia not far from Brisbane. His "issue" is that immediately that he exits the marina area, he is in open water with much larger swells and wind waves than he is used to. To further compound the problem his lady is having is the fact that they are operating the boat from the flybridge which amplifies the motion.

Some good advice so far, including yours (Ray).

 

[auskiwi]

HGR, I agree, after coming from New Zealand myself I did find Australian boating conditions rather trying. Fortunately I was on the Gold Coast so there were plenty of places to go in the continually windy conditions. I have since moved to Hervey Bay where there is also lots of shelter without going outside as you have to do out of Mooloolaba.I had a similar boat to your Riv 33, although a great boat it was fairly light and was a bit tender, my Admiral also got a bit queasy at times from the boats movement, so we tended to stay in sheltered waters or traveled up the coast in fair weather and enjoyed the many sheltered anchorages up Queensland's coast. I now have a Riv 40, a much heavier and stable boat and the wife loves it, although not the extra running costs. Have you thought of moving the boat up the coast for six months during winter and leaving it in a Marina such as Hervey Bay or even Rosslyn Bay near Yepoon, lots of great cruising areas up there, and not to far to drive up and back. Good luck, hope you can solve the problem as the Admiral needs to be looked after for happy boating.

 

[BruceK]

Thanks for all of the advice team. After a discussion we've ascertained that it's mostly anxiety around unknowns. I've contacted the local coastguard at Mooloolaba and they have linked me with a retired CG captain who is going to meet with us and give us some lessons on our boat in local waters.

Wise move, a good practical first step. I hope it works and relieves the anxiety of always boating in offshore conditions.The Riv 3300 is a well regarded boat from a long line of development over 40 years by boatbuilder Bill Barry Cotter, now mfg as Maritimo, over . A planing/SD hull, regarded as a safe and capable sea boat. Some had lower helms, some not.

 

[SteveK]

Agreed. Flybridge is great in nice conditions, horrible in rough ones. Still I wish I had one. That said, being completely inside under a hard roof close to the water in rough conditions helps with comfort level.

Ray,
Good luck and much enjoyment on your first loop.
The OP is located on the east coast of Australia not far from Brisbane. His "issue" is that immediately that he exits the marina area, he is in open water with much larger swells and wind waves than he is used to. To further compound the problem his lady is having is the fact that they are operating the boat from the flybridge which amplifies the motion.

Some good advice so far, including yours (Ray).

If I were to go out in conditions found trying for some, I would still operate from the flybridge as visibility is far better. If however, you cannot handle the rougher waters then don't venture out. Suggesting that operating below/inside is better/safer may develop a false sense of security.

 

[backinblue]

If I were to go out in conditions found trying for some, I would still operate from the flybridge as visibility is far better. If however, you cannot handle the rougher waters then don't venture out. Suggesting that operating below/inside is better/safer may develop a false sense of security.

In that case, in what situation does the lower helm make sense? What about boats w/o a flybridge, should they only venture out in calm conditions?

 

[rslifkin]

If I were to go out in conditions found trying for some, I would still operate from the flybridge as visibility is far better. If however, you cannot handle the rougher waters then don't venture out. Suggesting that operating below/inside is better/safer may develop a false sense of security.

I'd say it all depends on the boat. Some flybridges get unpleasant sooner than others. Some lower helms have decent visibility, some are basically "emergency use only".

 

[Seevee]

Another thing....


Once the SO gets comfy at the helm, there's an argument to make that their normal spot for docking, especially if the SO is less capable of throwing a line and tying up. I've had excellent luck with that. So often we see a frustrated wife on the deck trying to tie up and a ugly captain yelling at her.

 

[OldDan1943]

LOL Tuna towers, 3 levels...... sat in the slip for over 5 years and finally had it towed.
I think even on a very calm day, that upper level would be a killer.
Had to request 4 or 5 bridge openings between here and the ocean.

 

[SteveK]

In that case, in what situation does the lower helm make sense? What about boats w/o a flybridge, should they only venture out in calm conditions?

I'd say it all depends on the boat. Some flybridges get unpleasant sooner than others. Some lower helms have decent visibility, some are basically "emergency use only".

Interesting replies. Spray on the windshield OK but not on the face.
I like the emergency use only comment.

 

[backinblue]

Interesting replies. Spray on the windshield OK but not on the face.
I like the emergency use only comment.

I never said operating from the inside was safer or better, just that it is more comfortable and more secure feeling. In some cases it could actually be safer if the boat is getting tossed around. The higher up, the more severe the motion is.

 

[SteveK]

I never said operating from the inside was safer or better, just that it is more comfortable and more secure feeling. In some cases it could actually be safer if the boat is getting tossed around. The higher up, the more severe the motion is.

I am guessing you were never a sailboater.
I can agree with more comfortable but never about it being more secure.

 

[backinblue]

I am guessing you were never a sailboater.
I can agree with more comfortable but never about it being more secure.

Funny, but out of 4 boats I've owned, this is my first powerboat. I've sailed in open cockpits where you would have to turn your head aft to avoid getting hit in the face when the bow broke through a wave. The reason I meant that the lower helm could be safer is that if the boat is getting tossed around a lot, the motion will be worse up top where you could get thrown around if your not holding on and possible injured. For the record I said it "feels" more secure being inside and protected from the weather.

 

[SteveK]

What boat is it

 

[OldDan1943]

and then, there are times it is too dangerous to come down from the fly bridge.

 

[SteveK]

and then, there are times it is too dangerous to come down from the fly bridge.

Best reason yet for a bridge mini bar.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: Take the helm, woman, take the helm.

I'm serious, if you're in command, in control, it feels better. Even in a car. Does 70 mph feel the same from the drivers seat as from the passenger seat? Nope.

The other thing is, stabilizers. I don't care the size of boat but stabilizers for use underway can have a tremendous effect on happiness and seasickness. For a boat that size, they won't be huge. And I mean fin or gyro, not those birds and flying fish types.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The flying bridge motion reminds me of a situation I had years ago. We came out of Deception Pass and headed south in a 43' trawler. Close to Partridge Point the waves stacked and it was going to be into steep 4-5' waves all the way to Port Townsend. I looked behind me and the wife was sitting spread eagle on the deck throwing up into a bucket. She wasn't going to say anything. I sent her below and turned the boat around, taking one wave on the beam. She is a trouper, but no point availing myself of that when not necessary.

 

[backinblue]

Best reason yet for a bridge mini bar.

Can't argue that point!

 

[backinblue]

What boat is it

I assume you mean my current boat. It's a Mainship Pilot 355 (re-branded MS 31). No flybridge option.

 

[backinblue]

Wifey B: Take the helm, woman, take the helm.

I'm serious, if you're in command, in control, it feels better. Even in a car. Does 70 mph feel the same from the drivers seat as from the passenger seat? Nope.

The other thing is, stabilizers. I don't care the size of boat but stabilizers for use underway can have a tremendous effect on happiness and seasickness. For a boat that size, they won't be huge. And I mean fin or gyro, not those birds and flying fish types.

Wifey B: I agree to a point but if she currently doesn't feel safe, not sure putting her behind the wheel will help. She first needs to feel confident with the boat in those conditions.

 

[firehoser75]

Hi Steve,
First off, I was a sailboater for many years and an active racer. Raced in some pretty big seas with pretty big winds (not crazy big though).

It is a law of physics, there will be more motion on a flybridge than at a "lower helm", hence the suggestions given by many posters trying to come up with possible improvements for the OP's stated issue. Your point about "better" visibility from up top is probably valid, but visibility was not stated as an issue, and there is always the argument about "how much" better, is "better" really necessary (in other words the lower helm has good visibility), and is it worth the other negatives.
IMHO, for a relatively short trip in rough waters, maybe(?) the visibility advantage is worth the extra motion if all involved are comfortable with said motion. However, for me, on a longer passage (anything longer than a couple of hours) trying to move around (climbing ladders or stairs, going on deck, etc.) to get food, drink, stretch your legs, or even use the head would negate the visibility gain. These become safety aspects and more so the rougher it gets.

There is no right or wrong on this one (as far as the advantages) just personal preference and based on that boat's layout. Maybe you have an "iron" bladder compared to most and once "strapped in" don't need to move around?
Based on the OP's first post, I think he has received some very good general suggestions (considering all of the respondents are not intimately familiar with his location, average conditions, and boat). Ultimately only he can decide which, if any, of the suggestions have a good chance of improving the situation for his partner. We all know what happens if the "Admiral" is very unhappy!
Edit: Yes Marco, it is supposed to be "pleasure boating" after all.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: I agree to a point but if she currently doesn't feel safe, not sure putting her behind the wheel will help. She first needs to feel confident with the boat in those conditions.

Wifey B: A lot easier to feel confident in the boat when you're at the helm.

Then the biggest thing we all have to keep in mind is our passengers and guests don't have that luxury nor our experience so they're not feeling what we do and we need to modify our cruising to meet their comfort levels. Don't put someone in conditions they are not comfortable in. Doesn't help them that you know what the boat can handle and what you can handle.

 

[backinblue]

Wifey B: A lot easier to feel confident in the boat when you're at the helm.

Then the biggest thing we all have to keep in mind is our passengers and guests don't have that luxury nor our experience so they're not feeling what we do and we need to modify our cruising to meet their comfort levels. Don't put someone in conditions they are not comfortable in. Doesn't help them that you know what the boat can handle and what you can handle.

Agreed, thanks!

 

[SteveK]

Hi Steve,
First off, I was a sailboater for many years and an active racer. Raced in some pretty big seas with pretty big winds (not crazy big though).

It is a law of physics, there will be more motion on a flybridge than at a "lower helm", hence the suggestions given by many posters trying to come up with possible improvements for the OP's stated issue. Your point about "better" visibility from up top is probably valid, but visibility was not stated as an issue, and there is always the argument about "how much" better, is "better" really necessary (in other words the lower helm has good visibility), and is it worth the other negatives.
IMHO, for a relatively short trip in rough waters, maybe(?) the visibility advantage is worth the extra motion if all involved are comfortable with said motion. However, for me, on a longer passage (anything longer than a couple of hours) trying to move around (climbing ladders or stairs, going on deck, etc.) to get food, drink, stretch your legs, or even use the head would negate the visibility gain. These become safety aspects and more so the rougher it gets.

There is no right or wrong on this one (as far as the advantages) just personal preference and based on that boat's layout. Maybe you have an "iron" bladder compared to most and once "strapped in" don't need to move around?
Based on the OP's first post, I think he has received some very good general suggestions (considering all of the respondents are not intimately familiar with his location, average conditions, and boat). Ultimately only he can decide which, if any, of the suggestions have a good chance of improving the situation for his partner. We all know what happens if the "Admiral" is very unhappy!
Edit: Yes Marco, it is supposed to be "pleasure boating" after all.

Tom,
Another sailor, I am sure we all were at some point. I agree on one thing and that is I am arguing with people who do not have a flybridge now and maybe did not like one when they did.
It is all about trying to understand what we are all saying. I submit clearly that if I am already underway when the seas pick up I am more comfortable up top than trying to see through breaking waves on the windshield. When I take spray on the flybridge the lower helm is soaked.
As for the co-pilot, I do not get myself into a situation on purpose where the co-pilot would be uncomfortable. For that reason we stopped mooring on the mainland, too many trips cancelled.
Myself, I also keep forgetting not everyone ventured out at 2am to search for an overdue boat regardless of sea conditions, all the while on the bridge, that may be where some of my comments and experience originate. Also, my first job on a boat had the Captain ask me to get him a coffee to the pilot house built where a flybridge would be, having converted below to stateroom. That was nearing Cape Mudge. I learned not to spill climbing the ladder. My experiences developed my comments and not understanding what others are saying.
I should shut up now, carry on.

 

[Xsbank]

Just go below. The motion on an f.b., especially on a boat with a hard chine is like riding a bull in a bar. Better below.

 

[firehoser75]

Steve,
Sounds like you are more experienced than most, so definitely don't "shut up". I place value on your opinions, even the ones I don't totally agree with. Most times, there is much common ground between us. There is often value in listening to others views, experiences, and "lessons learned". I don't think anyone here "knows it all". We can all learn more and continue to grow! Hopefully not just around the middle.
I also try to avoid the rough conditions. I have a wife who loves boating (except when we feel like clothes in a washing machine), and I don't want to diminish her love of it. It is called "pleasure boating" after all.

 

[backinblue]

That's why this is a forum so everyone can express their opinions, we don't all have to agree 100% of the time. It's all good discussion. There is a saying about opinions that I probably shouldn't post here!

 

[Simi 60]

Will highly recommend these rails
Fully welded s/s with knurled grip.

After spending years grabbing at handfuls of air if we got a roll up the sense of added security is amazing

But as mentioned by others, send her below works to.
What feels big up top is nothing below

And, changing course works
Sure, you do extra miles but you get a hell of a lot of extra miles before you come even close to the cost of fitting and upkeep of stabilisers.

And then there's the change boats/change location option
Mooloolabah is getting worse by the day, I never really did understand why friends of ours bought there. Nowhere to go but out.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOUR-x-...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile

 

[BandB]

Steve,
Sounds like you are more experienced than most, so definitely don't "shut up". I place value on your opinions, even the ones I don't totally agree with. Most times, there is much common ground between us. There is often value in listening to others views, experiences, and "lessons learned". I don't think anyone here "knows it all". We can all learn more and continue to grow! Hopefully not just around the middle.
I also try to avoid the rough conditions. I have a wife who loves boating (except when we feel like clothes in a washing machine), and I don't want to diminish her love of it. It is called "pleasure boating" after all.

Wifey B: Also helps when spouse checks the conditions in advance and is part of the decision to go. Educator says Education is the key. Here it is too. Instead of thinking you're making random decisions if one is part of them and understands what is expected and then where things went wrong. One of the girls taught our six year old nieces how to use Windy and they frowned last week but sure made sure we knew that things looked better for Sunday as it approached. Yes, we took them out on Sunday. They struggle with distances and sizes but they sure knew when 6' became 3' (and then 2') that is was a definite go. I'm like "who taught you that?" and they proudly giggle and says "Stephie", as in Stephanie, their favorite captain.

I would say our family looks at marine forecasts far more than regular weather forecasts, just like charts more than road maps.

Oh and if anyone says it's a "no go", then it's a "no go."

 

[Simi 60]

Wifey B: Take the helm, woman, take the helm.

:

Would make zero difference on ours and a lot of boats.
Push lever forward, get on course, push auto pilot button