NVR II Nauti
Member
So, am I to assume, you're opposed to Allstate, State Farm, Progressive and any others who do not use independent agents?
Progressive does !
So, am I to assume, you're opposed to Allstate, State Farm, Progressive and any others who do not use independent agents?
There is speculation that the batteries in the VW electric powered cars on the burning RO RO transport ship in the Atlantic are feeding the fire. Which lithium technology would they be? If the "good" type batteries we're discussing were aboard a burning boat in a marina would they present a unique firefighting issue?
There is speculation that the batteries in the VW electric powered cars on the burning RO RO transport ship in the Atlantic are feeding the fire. Which lithium technology would they be? If the "good" type batteries we're discussing were aboard a burning boat in a marina would they present a unique firefighting issue?
OK, so why don't electric cars use the fire safe chemistry (I'm just curious)?
Energy density.
Electric cars need to pack in the most energy possbile to maximize the miles they can drive, and the battery chemistries that provide that density, can catch fire.
Later,
Dan
Dan, Is that within the same physical size the lifePO has less lasting energy?
In my original question above, I was thinking in terms of an external fire getting to the LiFePo battery pack. I found the following quote in a Google search. If I understand it correctly, if a LiFePo bank got hot enough due to an external fire, it could (would?) turn into a self-sustaining blow torch. What then for a local fire department in a marina environment. Do the installation requirements and regulations account for this?...
Clearly the LiFePo equipped vessel would be a total loss. I was actually thinking about boats around it. A virtual blow torch that can't be extinguished could do some serious large scale destruction in a marina environment. Several boats so equipped could be a major calamity (for the sake of discussion).
The article I quoted in post #39 says they should be in a fire proof enclosure...
That already happens when a fiberglass boat burns. If there are neighboring boats without a good bit of separation, they're almost guaranteed to have fire damage and depending on how fast the fire department is on scene, it can very easily escalate into multiple boats on fire.
Yep.
The marina we are using actually has a fire boat occupying a slip. The fire station is a few hundred yards from the marina and the fireboat.
I suspect that a fire in a boat will result in the total loss of that boat before the fire department can respond even though they are 5-10 minutes away. The fire department can must likely stop the fire from spreading to take out the marina but, again, I suspect boats next to the boat on fire will be damaged, if not a total loss.
The battery chemistry is completely irrelevant with a plastic boat. Once the structure of a plastic boat is on fire, the odds are that it is game over for that boat. A metal boat might have slightly better odds since the boat structure will to fuel the fire but I would not bet on it.
Later,
Dan
A lot of discussion and assertion that LiFPo batteries are less expensive in the long-run. But, shouldn't the comparison be made on the total number of amp-hours that the batteries can be expected to deliver over their lifetime? In other words, what is the total cost per amp-hour delivered? For the LFP proponents, methinks you would be surprised by the result. The number of cycles delivered is only part of the equation.
report here #18 bullet
Flammability Characterization of Lithium-ion Batteries in Bulk Storage Research Technical Report
I'd expect a similar result, if not better going on that metric. If you take banks of equal size, you'll be cycling the lead bank to 50% at the lowest. LFP may be cycled beyond that. So power delivered per cycle should be at least as much and in many cases more. I'd figure if you get twice the cycle life, you're probably getting 2.5 - 3x the usable power.
We have several posts in this thread that deal with fires, but these are with lithium ion batteries, not LiFePo4 batteries, as these are the batteries used in electric vehicles, marine propulsion, and home battery walls. I believe these batteries are used due to the electrical densities being higher than LiFePo4 batteries.
I still haven't seen anything that would suggest that LiFePo4 batteries are more of a fire risk in a boat (or even an RV) than lead batteries.
Jim
My point is that if these LiFePo batteries become commonplace, and they are not enclosed with seriously robust fire proof enclosures, a marina fire fighting effort could be seriously hampered by multiple uncontrollable blow torch type fires. A guaranteed calamity. I'm not opposed to LiFePo batteries, but they dang sure better be enclosed properly. There's a lot of hype about how safe they are from impact and internal runaway....that's not my concern. BTW, twenty years ago we had a houseboat fire six slips away from our boat....covered marina on Lake Travis. Buckled the steel roof supports,etc. I know exactly what happens in a fire scenario. I know it would be seriously complicated if there were multiple Lithium fed blazes interspersed in the mix.
If the fire department can't extinguish the lithium fueled fire and it keeps blazing and reigniting, thereby exposing boats around it to an extended period of heat and flame...it makes a difference.