Let us talk about Navigation Lights and Anchor Lights

[Phil Fill]

I want to thank you all for reminding me how much I have forgotten.*

However the quick reference has most of the information.* The only day shapes I have seen is on the commercials but you have to look real hard to see them among their gear/rigging.* I have looked as installing a loud hailer that has the horns, whistles and bells.* They sell for about 275 bucks.* *


*
Our old anchor light has a strobe?* What is a strobe used for?

 

[Woodsong]

I would like to install a hailer with bells, etc. on our trawler...not going to do it now but maybe this spring due to all the other stuff I am doing to the boat.

Previous owner just used a hand held air horn. I just installed a new trumpet style air horn on the trawler last weekend- could not stand going out from the slip without a horn to get someone's attention if need be!

Bell....I seem to recall hearing recently that the USCG just recently eliminated the requirement for a bell for boats under 39'?? Perhaps they were never required and I just missed it??

 

[rwidman]

Phil Fill wrote:


*I have looked as installing a loud hailer that has the horns, whistles and bells.* They sell for about 275 bucks.* *

You can get a Standard Horizon VHF radio that has all that built in for $400 list, about $330 street price.* It also has a built in AIS receiver that displays ship positions and interfaces with most modern plotters.

*

 

[Larry M]

Phil Fill wrote:


*Our old anchor light has a strobe?* What is a strobe used for?



This topic came up a lot when we had our sailboat.* A*strobe is technically illegal to use but I would use it if I had to.* Here are the specific regulations under I.R.P.C.S./ ColRegs/ International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.

Rule 36Signals to attract attention.
If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorised elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarrass any vessel. Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.

Larry/Lena
Hobo KK42
Manzanillo, Colima, MX

 

[Carey]

RT Firefly wrote:

Hiya,
Mr. Marin.* You pickin' on my brother?
http://www.tradeindia.com/fp466908/Taxi-Horn.html
Nope, NOT a picture of Harpo, could be that horn*Mr. Carey's*refering to.

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 10th of December 2010 08:05:51 AM

-- Edited by RT Firefly on Friday 10th of December 2010 08:06:22 AM

RT
That's exactly the same as mine, but entirely different. I have the basic bicycle version in chrome. Brass after all is so, last year.*

I really like Marin's reference to the Harpo Horn.

*
*

*
*

*



-- Edited by Carey on Friday 10th of December 2010 10:52:57 AM

-- Edited by Carey on Friday 10th of December 2010 11:59:04 AM

 

[Phil Fill]

Thanks that is good to know as I need to buy new fixed VHF with AIS, so the hailer with sounds would be an added benefit.*


*
For Christmas I use to wrap Christmas lights about the mast stays and turn the strobe light on for a start.* A couple of times I turned on the strobe light on if people couple not find us. *Also I was thinking if we installed a security system to connect/use the strobe light. There are a lot of misc. items on the want list before we throw off the line. **I wonder if my wife would like a new VHF for Christmas?*

 

[rwidman]

Phil Fill wrote:


Thanks that is good to know as I need to buy new fixed VHF with AIS, so the hailer with sounds would be an added benefit.*
*

http://www.standardhorizon.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=83&encProdID=F858763BB81027701141A0167DE2A031

*

 

[Egregious]

skipperdude wrote:I guess the next step would be sounds.


any body ever have to use there horn?

Yes I use the horn often.* If a PWC gets within 50 yards of my vessel I honk at them.* They are worse than people driving with cell phones.* They don't travel in any particular direction and I think making a noise might help them "wake up" and pay attention.* In NC the state laws that regulate these things are a joke and are rarely enforced, and I don't know what they are in SC, if there even are any.

Recently I gave two beeps to a sailboat who did not respond to my VHF request for a slow pass.* Two blasts meaning "leaving you on MY starboard" in this case.

Also, BTW in NC in a motor vehicle it is the Law (at least it was when I was 16) that you honk you horn when passing another vehicle.* Some people think I'm being rude, but they just don't know the law.* I think it should be a law to blast your horn when approaching a PWC

*

 

[markpierce]

Egregious wrote:

Recently I gave two beeps to a sailboat who did not respond to my VHF request for a slow pass.* Two blasts meaning "leaving you on MY starboard" in this case.

I wouldn't expect a radio or horn response from any sailboat.

*

 

[Carey]

Egregious wrote:

*
skipperdude wrote:I guess the next step would be sounds.


any body ever have to use there horn?

Yes I use the horn often.* If a PWC gets within 50 yards of my vessel I honk at them.* They are worse than people driving with cell phones.* They don't travel in any particular direction and I think making a noise might help them "wake up" and pay attention.* In NC the state laws that regulate these things are a joke and are rarely enforced, and I don't know what they are in SC, if there even are any.

Recently I gave two beeps to a sailboat who did not respond to my VHF request for a slow pass.* Two blasts meaning "leaving you on MY starboard" in this case.

Also, BTW in NC in a motor vehicle it is the Law (at least it was when I was 16) that you honk you horn when passing another vehicle.* Some people think I'm being rude, but they just don't know the law.* I think it should be a law to blast your horn when approaching a PWC

I sympathise with you on the PWC problem. They are like mosquitos in your whiskey. We solved that problem here in the San Juan Islands, by outlawing them. I never thought it would hold up in court, but it did. We have had over ten years without the little insects.

*

 

[Giggitoni]

...lake lice...

 

[Egregious]

OK guys and gals, here is the stupid-ass NC PWC law:

(a1) No person shall operate a personal watercraft on the waters of this State at greater than no-wake speed within 100 feet of an anchored or moored vessel, a dock, pier, swim float, marked swimming area, swimmers, surfers, persons engaged in angling, or any manually operated propelled vessel, unless the personal watercraft is operating in a narrow channel. No person shall operate a personal watercraft in a narrow channel at greater than no-wake speed within 50 feet of an anchored or moored vessel, a dock, pier, swim float, marked swimming area, swimmers, surfers, persons engaged in angling, or any manually operated propelled vessel.

If you read this you might say "great, that means they basically cannot go anywhere since the ICW is pretty much less than*100 feet from a dock or anchored or moored vessel about anywhere you go."

But read more closely:* " unless the personal watercraft is operating in a narrow channel"* WTF does that mean?* and then they go on to say more about operating in a narrow channel...

Bottom line, the game warden and CG and local Fuzz don't enforce this law since they probably don't understand it.* As I interpret this they cannot travel anywhere between Little River and Norfolk unless they are in an inlet or sound, but I see those mother*&^Kers flying by my marina all the time.*

And I won't mention the people who put their 3 yr old child in front and drive around oblivious to traffic.* Sheesh.


-- Edited by Egregious on Friday 10th of December 2010 09:41:50 PM

 

[Carey]

Egregious wrote:

OK guys and gals, here is the stupid-ass NC PWC law:

(a1) No person shall operate a personal watercraft on the waters of this State at greater than no-wake speed within 100 feet of an anchored or moored vessel, a dock, pier, swim float, marked swimming area, swimmers, surfers, persons engaged in angling, or any manually operated propelled vessel, unless the personal watercraft is operating in a narrow channel. No person shall operate a personal watercraft in a narrow channel at greater than no-wake speed within 50 feet of an anchored or moored vessel, a dock, pier, swim float, marked swimming area, swimmers, surfers, persons engaged in angling, or any manually operated propelled vessel.

If you read this you might say "great, that means they basically cannot go anywhere since the ICW is pretty much less than*100 feet from a dock or anchored or moored vessel about anywhere you go."

But read more closely:* " unless the personal watercraft is operating in a narrow channel"* WTF does that mean?* and then they go on to say more about operating in a narrow channel...

Bottom line, the game warden and CG and local Fuzz don't enforce this law since they probably don't understand it.* As I interpret this they cannot travel anywhere between Little River and Norfolk unless they are in an inlet or sound, but I see those mother*&^Kers flying by my marina all the time.*

And I won't mention the people who put their 3 yr old child in front and drive around oblivious to traffic.* Sheesh.
-- Edited by Egregious on Friday 10th of December 2010 09:41:50 PM

Too much power with too little intelligence required for operation. Either outlaw them. or limit them to fifteen knots, and that will solve the problem.

*

 

[Egregious]

Carey,* it will never happen here:*
there are plenty of inland lakes, not to mention much coastline and ICW and sounds.* Any jackoff with a credit card can and will buy a PWC and go out on the water.* The jackoffs outnumber the responsible boaters like us 10-1 I'd say.

but I do enjoy seeing them freeze their asses off in May and October...

 

[Carey]

Egregious wrote:

Carey,* it will never happen here:*
there are plenty of inland lakes, not to mention much coastline and ICW and sounds.* Any jackoff with a credit card can and will buy a PWC and go out on the water.* The jackoffs outnumber the responsible boaters like us 10-1 I'd say.

but I do enjoy seeing them freeze their asses off in May and October...

I totally understand. I am still flabergasted (Never wrote that word before. Is it a word? Did I spell it right?) that we were able to outlaw them. The secret is to get the property owners and the boaters to agree that the peace and tranquility is what most of us seek from our experience on the water. If you wan't testosterone moments, get a motorcycle and stay on the land. Honestly, I don't know how we made it happen.

*

 

[Marin]

Hmmm.... I don't think I go along with the "ban 'em" philosophy. As usual with these kinds of things, the problem isn't the machine, it's the operator. I've only ridden a PWC once, in Dubai, and it was a hell of a lot of fun.

The problem is that the kind of people who tend to be attracted to PWCs tend to be young, which means they tend to be careless, inconsiderate, unmindful of the rules, and feel that accidents always happen to the other guy. Like the kids with the rice rockets who go zooming and booming through traffic.

Even though PWCs are banned from the San Juan Islands, I find the kids zooming around the anchorages in their parent's inflatables to be every bit as irritating. So should inflatables be banned from the San Juans, too? They can be just as annoying.

I don't know what the answer is. Better parenting? Better law enforcement?

When during my short PWC experience in Dubai a large yacht entered the narrow waterway where we were zipping around I recall thinking, "Stupid boater with his giant turd of a yacht, why doesn't he stay the hell out of here." Or something to that effect.

So it's a two-sided coin. If everybody can ban what annoys them, everything will be banned. As a floatplane pilot my personal beef is windsurfers. There have been plenty of times on Lake Washington where I wished they would be banned as I aborted a takeoff because one zipped out in front of me and then fell over. But again, it's the operator, not the sailboard.

 

[Carey]

Marin wrote:

Hmmm.... I don't think I go along with the "ban 'em" philosophy. As usual with these kinds of things, the problem isn't the machine, it's the operator. I've only ridden a PWC once, in Dubai, and it was a hell of a lot of fun.

The problem is that the kind of people who tend to be attracted to PWCs tend to be young, which means they tend to be careless, inconsiderate, unmindful of the rules, and feel that accidents always happen to the other guy. Like the kids with the rice rockets who go zooming and booming through traffic.

Even though PWCs are banned from the San Juan Islands, I find the kids zooming around the anchorages in their parent's inflatables to be every bit as irritating. So should inflatables be banned from the San Juans, too? They can be just as annoying.

I don't know what the answer is. Better parenting? Better law enforcement?

When during my short PWC experience in Dubai a large yacht entered the narrow waterway where we were zipping around I recall thinking, "Stupid boater with his giant turd of a yacht, why doesn't he stay the hell out of here." Or something to that effect.

So it's a two-sided coin. If everybody can ban what annoys them, everything will be banned. As a floatplane pilot my personal beef is windsurfers. There have been plenty of times on Lake Washington where I wished they would be banned as I aborted a takeoff because one zipped out in front of me and then fell over. But again, it's the operator, not the sailboard.

So, you are expecting to affect a change in the mentality of the average PWC operator sometime in my lifetime? Yes, I am that shallow. I would choose to work toward the solution with the most potential for success. I want those damn things out of my life. And banning did the trick.

Don't *get me wrong Marin. I agree wholeheartedly that the problem lies in the mentality of the average operator, and not in the vessel. But, testosterone, given the opportunity, will out. Damn it, I want a PWC myself! I know I would love it. But, not having one is a small price to pay for the tranquility we seek. Now all we have to do is deflate all those inflatables that exceed three knots in the harbor.*

 

[Egregious]

Marin wrote:

*I've only ridden a PWC once, in Dubai, and it was a hell of a lot of fun.

I've ridden them plenty of times, and it was always a hell of a lot of fun.* I also nearly killed myself each and every time.* I am lifelong boater, but a unique aspect of the PWC is that it wont turn unless power is applied, and most people turn off the power when they are headed toward an obstacle.

Once I ended up on top of an oyster bed since I was headed toward it at top speed and when I realized I was getting too close I instinctively closed the throttle and turned the "wheel" and the boat just kept on going in the same direction, and then up into the marsh grass.*

I returned the rental PWC with an intake full of grass and a deck covered in blood and mud.

I am*a lifelong boater that can helm a sailboat *as well as*drive an*outboard or yacht, and I still managed to wreck a PWC.

Solutions?* I don't have any.*

Laws?* Yes: the Axiom of Gross Tonnage.

*


-- Edited by Egregious on Friday 10th of December 2010 11:21:44 PM

 

[markpierce]

Having operated a PWC several years ago one afternoon on Folsom Lake (and nowhere near any "real" boat), I find them scary and wouldn't dare to operate faster than 35 mph, well below their maximum speed.* Presently, I'm inclined (as my trawler with air horns hasn't been completed yet) to give them one prolonged horn blast (or five shorts if appropriate) whenever they come within reach, just to let them know there's a boat, without their maneuverability, close by.


-- Edited by markpierce on Saturday 11th of December 2010 12:28:57 AM

-- Edited by markpierce on Saturday 11th of December 2010 12:30:18 AM

 

[Marin]

Carey wrote:



So, you are expecting to affect a change in the mentality of the average PWC operator sometime in my lifetime? I would choose to work toward the solution with the most potential for success.

Success for you.* The PWC guys probably don't share your idea of success

*

I suspect the only reason the ban on PWCs stuck in the San Juans is the high number of real wealthy people who live there who have the kind of political and economic clout to make something like this happen, and the relatively low number of people in the islands*who want to ride PWCs.

I suspect if they tried the same thing in King County (Seattle)*the attempt wouldn't get far.* The PWC*industry is a pretty sizable, I think, and can probably bring a lot of pressure to bear where they feel it's warranted.**To say nothing of the high percentage of people in the south Sound and the lakes who want to ride these things.

I had a really loud sports car my*freshman year in college and I'm sure it irritated the hell out of every resident of every street I drove it*down in Fort Collins at*eleven o'clock at night.* But I was eighteen-nineteen and I didn't*care.* The noise was cool.* We all did stuff like that when we were young.* Then, if you survive, you generally grow out of it.**Zooming around on a*PWC or in a loud car*pissing off the old folks is part of growing up.* It wasn't denied to me.* Why should it be denied to people today?**Part of those freedoms everyone on OTDE is always whining about losing.

You can make the claim that PWCs are dangerous,*but so's crossing the street.* I suspect that a lot more kids are killed by being*stupid*in cars than on PWCs.

I would support the idea of establishing (and enforcing) no-PWC areas like marine parks and popular anchorages*in the San Juans,*crowded harbors like Roche and Friday, and so on.* But if a kid wants to*zoom up and down Hale Passage on a PWC, or back and forth*across Bellingham*Bay, let 'em.* They wouldn't have any impact on me when we run our boat through those places although the Lummi*Tribe*might get tired of the racket....

Now the kid in the inflatable zooming around Fossile Bay making noise and kicking up a big wake for no purpose other than doing it, that's no different than the same kid doing the same thing on a PWC.* I can't believe that between the two of us we can't come up with a solution to that one.* Inflatables can be deflated.... perhaps therein lies the key......

 

[markpierce]

Let's wait until excessively-loud*motorcycles are banned from operating within a mile of a residential*area before banning PWCs (I'm being facetious).* Meanwhile, let's expect operators of PWC to*operate within the rules and common sense,*and let them know when they aren't.

 

[FF]

Close in PWC are simple/

Simply cut some floating Polly Pro line into 2 ft lengths.

Unravel and sprinkle around your boat.

The polly not only stops the impeller , it usually gets the seal, so it will be a week or more of SILENCE! till the hassle is back in the water.

 

[Moonstruck]

FF wrote:


Get a Euro style , Bosch or similar the small crap Perko sells is not legal outside US waters.

Thanks FF, of course your suggestion is the best.**I have been unable to locate Bosch navigation lights,* Aqua Signal has the size, shape and look that would work.* However, the housing is only offered in black.

I tried for three days to get on the Hella site.* It had been taken over by Wikileaks.* Finally got on yesterday with no joy.

I guess I could fabricate a mold for a fiberglass housing or build one out of Star Board.* This would be a heck of alot of trouble.* Maybe I will install a temporary solution untl figuring out one better.

*

 

[Tidahapah]

Recently renewed my port & stbd lights and stuck with the Aqua Signal. Youse get what you pay for and they are by far and away the better ones around.
Port & Stbd lights on light boards as per regulations, the light boards should have a black background therefore the black lights are fairly standard.

PWC
In Australia you get a free frontal lobotamy with every purchase and so far I think all owners have taken up the offer.
Some even got them for all the family (lobotomys that is)

Benn

 

[Moonstruck]

Tidahapah wrote:

Recently renewed my port & stbd lights and stuck with the Aqua Signal. Youse get what you pay for and they are by far and away the better ones around.
Benn

Agreed about Aqua Signal lights.* I have them on my mast, and they are my first choice.* The 20 series would work great for me.* I talked with their customer service dept.* They said that*the rorizontal stern light*is only offered in black at this time.* If a boat manufacturer wants to make a white one standard on a model that they would probably rethink offering one in white.* There is nothing black on the cabin top.* I can mount a flush mount stainless steel* housing light and replace when something better comes out.

*

 

[FF]

Actually mostly the Perko Yacht stuff is pure JUNK.

Once you look on the commercial side , the stuff for boats over 65 (or so) is not that bad.

Pri$y , but fine as far as service life , and legal worldwide.

 

[carvendive]

Green, Blue, White, Red... I'm sure I'm throwing away a good moneymaker but here goes. I think it's time that someone come out with navigation lights that are positional or that flash at a specific rate rather than just color. Spaced a specific distance from each other so you can get an idea of distance as well.

I'm color blind and I hate to tell you'all this but it's a male dominate trate. AND quite honostly, when I'm out at night (which is rare) and I see you across the pond from me, your lights might as well be white. As a matter of fact, to me, I see white light from far away, green light = dim white light that is not visable from as far away and red light = very dim light which is visable from even shorter distances. Thank God for my radar!

You know what it's like tracking boats in the fog with your radar. You don't know if the other guy has radar to see you or not. TAKE THE SAME PRECAUTIONS AT NIGHT. Do not assume that just because you have your running lights on that the other guy knows your port from your starboard OR your stern AND that he knows your orientation and your bearing!

I see some of you out there running along, passing each other quite close - apparently relying on each others nav lights for not only location but also distance. You don't reduce speed and frankly you scare me. (I'm just waiting to hear from someone running at 16kts + at night and find a dead head.)

Sorry, not wishing anyone any misfortune. Just know that those lights are not doing what you think they might.

 

[Moonstruck]

I was running down from Baltimore to Solomons in the middle of December.* Left Baltimore in the afternoon.* Why so late going South and leaving late in the afternoon was another story.* Upon arriving at Solomons after dark, it was a jumble of red, green, and white Christmas lights.* Christmas lights were on homes, boats, docks, and businesses.* Everything was blinking.* It was a nightmare to figure it all out.* Radar can sure come in handy.

A couple of days later we entered the North end of the Pungo River.* Same situation (days are sure short this time of year).* The channel makes a turn *and markers change sides at that juncture.* I finally placed a cursor on the marker I was looking for, turned on the autopilot and told it to track.* We went right to it.* Entering Dowry Creek that night was another story, but we arrived with no problems.* Ain't technology great?