Jacksonville, FL Proposed Anchoring Restrictions

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I recently anchored in the Ortega River overnight, because by the time I got there, it was too dark to safely go into my reserved slip. My vessel was egged while I slept.. I was not near any houses, and was out of the channel. I don't know who did it, but they had to have come by boat. Ii went in to the marina the next day.

Being serious here. Would you be willing to formally write that up and have it notarized?

Did you file a complaint with LE?

 

[Group9]

Why does the government always think the answer to the neighbor's dog on your left crapping in your yard, is to go and beat the dog belonging to your neighbor on the right?

 

[Group9]

Thanks angus99 for the posting above. I live in Georgia and participated in the meetings about HB201 that was passed and is now in effect for Georgia. My state representative, Don Hogan authored the bill at the request of an ex judge in Brunswick that had a so called derelict boat behind her office in Brunswick.
The disguised it as a clean water bill and it passed almost unopposed through the legislature. Hogan did admit at a public meeting that he “should have involved boaters” initially. Duh!.
Anyway, we had meetings, letter writing campaigns and all the big national groups speaking against the bill. The DNR reps said we hear you loud and clear!
When all was said and done the Georgia DNR basically ignored all input and the appointed commissioner imposed his own draconian rules against anchoring.
We now have 1000 foot setbacks from man made structures which severely restricts some of our best anchorages.
Get involved and be polite but vocal. Hopefully your government won’t lie to you like ours did. It’s a fact that money talks in situations like this and that the homeowners are listened to much more than us lowly boaters.
Good luck in Florida but don’t expect to win because you are right.
Right has nothing to do with it and Fair is where they show pigs and cows.

I was a public corruption investigator for several years at state attorney generals office. Here is the ultimate lesson I learned about laws getting passed. The only way to combat pay to play legislation (which ultimately, it all is) is to pay more than the people wanting the bill passed are paying.

That means supporting organizations like Boat US, who can write those "campaign contribution" checks, with their post-it note stuck on them with what they would like to see happen, or not happen.

No one in the Florida legislature (or any other one) cares about what's right or wrong. It's all about the Benjamins. And, it always will be. And, that's how you win, as distasteful, as it may be.

That's why I am a Boat U.S. member. So they bribe legislators to stop this stuff from happening.

 

[slowgoesit]

I recently anchored in the Ortega River overnight, because by the time I got there, it was too dark to safely go into my reserved slip. My vessel was egged while I slept.. I was not near any houses, and was out of the channel. I don't know who did it, but they had to have come by boat. Ii went in to the marina the next day.

Scandalous! I propose that Florida immediately pass legislation that makes egging of boats anchored in the Ortega River ILLEGAL, with fines levied on all chickens proven to be guilty of laying eggs later used in ILLEGAL EGGINGS!

 

[Larry M]

Here's the resolution that the City of Jacksonville Waterways Commission opposing HB 417 and SB 606.

 

[Larry M]

Scandalous! I propose that Florida immediately pass legislation that makes egging of boats anchored in the Ortega River ILLEGAL, with fines levied on all chickens proven to be guilty of laying eggs later used in ILLEGAL EGGINGS!

Thanks I needed that!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Nice. Thanks for sharing Larry.

Question: Boating or cruising in the bare naked is illegal? In Florida?

 

[BandB]

Nice. Thanks for sharing Larry.

Question: Boating or cruising in the bare naked is illegal? In Florida?

Above waist is legal, below waist is not. Now, with above, sexual activity involving is illegal to be in view.

 

[slowgoesit]

Nice. Thanks for sharing Larry.

Question: Boating or cruising in the bare naked is illegal? In Florida?

You must send pics to the selection committee, they will let you know whether you will be in violation of the law or not. . . . Hint: Most of us would be in violation!

 

[Larry M]

...Question: Boating or cruising in the bare naked is illegal? In Florida?

I’m asking please, can we stay on topic here. I have been told that a few Legislators or their aids are watching this thread. This is an important issue for me, more so now since it affects waters in which Lena and I boat.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I’m asking please, can we stay on topic here. I have been told that a few Legislators or their aids are watching this thread. This is an important issue for me since it is now become local. Thanks in advance.

Sorry Larry. My bad. Feel free to delete my above post. The reason I asked was that it was stated in the paper you posted.

 

[Larry M]

Sorry Larry. My bad. Feel free to delete my above post. The reason I asked was that it was stated in the paper you posted.

No your fine. It’s not the questions, it’s the answers.

 

[menzies]

Here's the resolution that the City of Jacksonville Waterways Commission opposing HB 417 and SB 606.

Thanks for that. I will share to MTOA and DeFevers OG.

 

[Larry M]

Thanks for that. I will share to MTOA and DeFevers OG.

That would be great. Both MTOA and DeFevers OG gave a good presentation in Tallahassee before the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources opposing the bill.

 

[menzies]

That would be great. Both MTOA and DeFevers OG gave a good presentation in Tallahassee before the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources opposing the bill.

For those that weren't aware both organization with I believe Seven Seas Cruising Association and the AGLCA collected funds from members to pay for a lobbyist in Tallahassee. Initially it was to oppose the spread of anchoring restriction in SE Florida. Due to continuing efforts to restrict anchoring this funding is now in its third year.

 

[Lollygag1]

Seems like you have some good allies to this cause. Seems like an easy argument is better enforcement vs passing another law (that may not be enforced) that is harmful to boaters and the local economy.

 

[Larry M]

For those that weren't aware both organization with I believe Seven Seas Cruising Association and the AGLCA collected funds from members to pay for a lobbyist in Tallahassee. Initially it was to oppose the spread of anchoring restriction in SE Florida. Due to continuing efforts to restrict anchoring this funding is now in its third year.

Here’s the video of the meeting in Tallahassee before the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources opposing the bill. SB 606 starts at 38:40 minutes into it. If you watch it, the end discussion says the bill basically needs more work.

https://thefloridachannel.org/videos/1-13-20-senate-committee-on-environment-and-natural-resources/

 

[slowgoesit]

I’m asking please, can we stay on topic here. I have been told that a few Legislators or their aids are watching this thread. This is an important issue for me, more so now since it affects waters in which Lena and I boat.

Thanks in advance.

Larry, I'll stay on topic now. Sorry for the response to an earlier post about nudity.



It's encouraging that the voice of reason won out in the Waterway Commission meeting. Unfortunately it will take a lot more input at similar meetings to change the sponsors minds. Please keep us informed on any further developments. Giving away just the tiniest right of free passage is a slippery slope. Having traveled to many areas of the planet in 21+ years in the Army, I've seen nice places, not so nice places, and REALLY not so nice places where I was incredibly thankful of where I came from. That doesn't mean that it doesn't take constant vigilance to ensure that our freedoms don't become eroded by Gov't agencies and special interests. Keep up the good work!

 

[Larry M]

Senate Bill 606 is now in Committee on Community Affairs. Below are the committee members.

Chair:Senator Anitere Flores
Vice Chair:Senator Gary M. Farmer, Jr.
Senator Doug Broxson
Senator Jason W. B. Pizzo
Senator David Simmons

Here's a canned letter I posted early. To find each Senators email address, open the link, find their name and click on it. It will open into an email format. Fill in the header, cut and pastes the text and add your name at the bottom.

https://public.lobbytools.com/

I am writing to express my opposition to HB 417 and SB 606 which seek to restrict anchoring on the Ortega and Cedar rivers in Jacksonville. The problem here and in other areas of Florida is not anchored boats, it's abandoned and derelict vessels. Creation of yet another anchoring limitation area is the wrong approach to managing the problem.

We need to enforce current regulations not enact new ones. Chapter 327.4107, Florida Statutes, provides the tools necessary to identify and manage at risk vessels of concern. It is already against Florida law to keep a vessel that is “at risk of becoming derelict” at anchor.

The answer for everyone is TOUGH ENFORCEMENT of existing laws. FWC MUST make it a priority to check on vessels when they hear citizen’s concerns or see them anchored for a long period of time.

On January 15, 2020, the Jacksonville Waterways Commission voted 8-1 to oppose this proposed legislation and focus efforts on enforcement of current regulations. Please respect their decision.

Regards,

 

[Larry M]

It appears that HB 417 is dead for this legislative session. It didn't have the support to work it's way through the system and make it to the floor.

The House rules require a bill have at least one hearing, in a committee, not only to move forward on its own but also to be amended to another bill dealing with the same subject.

HB 417 needed to have been put on this week’s Agriculture and Natural Resources subcommittee agenda in order to be considered as an amendment to another bill.

The agenda for this last subcommittee meeting does not have HB 417 on the agenda. Thus, the bill is dead.

I went to another local meeting this week at the Florida Yacht Club. The homeowners group which is backing this legislation is not giving up. We'll have to start the process again in the fall. Knowing what's coming, we will be better organized.

In the mean time, we can work on more funding for local enforcement of the existing laws and regulations.

Thanks for all that help with the letter writing. It shows recreational boaters can get organized and have a voice. Now if we can just fix Georgia!

I'll keep posting as more information comes out.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Larry great news and an awesome job!! Congrats....

 

[Larry M]

Larry great news and an awesome job!! Congrats....

Thanks but I didn’t do it alone and we can’t rest on our laurels. I heard there was a lot of letter writing to legislators. The amendment will probably come up next fall and we will be better prepared. I’ll post as more information comes available.

 

[Group9]

Thanks but I didn’t do it alone and we can’t rest on our laurels. I heard there was a lot of letter writing to legislators. The amendment will probably come up next fall and we will be better prepared. I’ll post as more information comes available.

And, the fact to keep in mind is, that while boaters have to fight against these proposed regulations, and win, every year, the people pushing for these regulations every year, only have to win once.

We saw that with the rich New York guy down in Miami ( I forget his name), on Sunset Lake, who no matter times he lost, was back at it writing checks the next year, until he got what he wanted. You can't ever relax.

 

[BandB]

We saw that with the rich New York guy down in Miami ( I forget his name), on Sunset Lake, who no matter times he lost, was back at it writing checks the next year, until he got what he wanted. You can't ever relax.

Do you really know how bad things were on Sunset Lake? If you did, you would not fault a home owner there for having a problem with it. It wasn't cruisers anchoring, it was derelict boats living there full time with dumping, noise, drifting into docks and boats, cursing homeowners and many other issues. It was like having a homeless encampment in your yard. This was all packed into a very small space. Should there have been a solution short of what was reached? Probably, but there wasn't. Addressing Sunset Lake was needed by those who like to anchor as well, because failure to address major issues will lead to much broader limitations that none of us want. I have zero issues with anchoring and enjoy some who anchor near our home, but if it was like Sunset Lake had become I'd be looking for solutions as well. In spite of attempts, our derelict boat laws are still woefully inadequate and that continues to put anchoring in the news with people wanting to go too far. Just don't compare what was going on in Sunset Lake to Jacksonville, please. I saw it. I even once tried to go through there in a small Rib. Couldn't get through and was cursed for trying by those anchored. That's what homeowners faced trying to get to their docks.

 

[angus99]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but are there things that some homeowners and cruising boaters could agree on that would tweak existing laws to our mutual advantage? Just saying “existing laws plus enforcement cover all your problems” is unlikely to satisfy aggrieved property owners and ensures an ongoing adversarial relationship.

Instead of fighting these battles strictly in the legislatures or courts, would it make sense to meet with reasonable homeowner groups, neighborhood associations or others driving anchoring restrictions, educate them on our needs/rights/actual impacts and see if there’s any common ground on which we could jointly support each other and approach legislators? This may sound PollyAnna-ish and will obviously not work with property owners who believe they have a divine right to control everything in their view-shed. But I suspect that property owners who actually met cruising boaters vs. party animals or squatters might be less likely to tar all boaters with the same brush.

It would seem that outreach like this would be a logical community relations strategy for BOAT US and any groups that wanted to affiliate with them.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 99. An extememly reasonable suggestion that I'm sure ALL TF members would agree with BUT...BUT. How do you deal with the party animals and the a$$hats who DO cause problems and will continue to do so simply because they can and and there "ain't no law" that says they can't"?

 

[angus99]

Greetings,
Mr. 99. An extememly reasonable suggestion that I'm sure ALL TF members would agree with BUT...BUT. How do you deal with the party animals and the a$$hats who DO cause problems and will continue to do so simply because they can and and there "ain't no law" that says they can't"?

Good question, RT. The devil’s in the details. Certainly some studies based on real-world problems would be necessary. Have other communities addressed problems like this without the scorched-earth methods these recent proposals require? I don’t know, but whatever comes out of the process, it would be better for boaters to be seen as sympathetic, engaged and part of the solution to what most agree are the real problems. Come to Ft. Pierce and we’ll talk about it.

 

[BandB]

Good question, RT. The devil’s in the details. Certainly some studies based on real-world problems would be necessary. Have other communities addressed problems like this without the scorched-earth methods these recent proposals require? I don’t know, but whatever comes out of the process, it would be better for boaters to be seen as sympathetic, engaged and part of the solution to what most agree are the real problems. Come to Ft. Pierce and we’ll talk about it.

I completely agree with you. When one side says anyone should be able to anchor anywhere and do anything and the other side says no one should be able to anchor anywhere you can't make progress. The issues can really be simplified.

1-What distance from bridges, marinas, homes, docks, should boats be required to anchor?

2-How long should boats be allowed to remain anchored in one spot without moving?

3-What should be the requirements for the boats in terms of condition, of sewage disposal or pump outs, of current registration, of ability to move on their own power, of permits?

4-Are there any areas for any other reasons where anchoring should not be allowed?

5-What are the provisions for marking and then removing those boats found in violation? This would primarily be derelict boats just left.

Now what would be nice is once that was resolved to look at ideal anchorages and provisions for pump outs and for dinghy docks.

 

[Group9]

Do you really know how bad things were on Sunset Lake? If you did, you would not fault a home owner there for having a problem with it. It wasn't cruisers anchoring, it was derelict boats living there full time with dumping, noise, drifting into docks and boats, cursing homeowners and many other issues. It was like having a homeless encampment in your yard. This was all packed into a very small space. Should there have been a solution short of what was reached? Probably, but there wasn't. Addressing Sunset Lake was needed by those who like to anchor as well, because failure to address major issues will lead to much broader limitations that none of us want. I have zero issues with anchoring and enjoy some who anchor near our home, but if it was like Sunset Lake had become I'd be looking for solutions as well. In spite of attempts, our derelict boat laws are still woefully inadequate and that continues to put anchoring in the news with people wanting to go too far. Just don't compare what was going on in Sunset Lake to Jacksonville, please. I saw it. I even once tried to go through there in a small Rib. Couldn't get through and was cursed for trying by those anchored. That's what homeowners faced trying to get to their docks.

How exactly does that relate to my point?

 

[BandB]

How exactly does that relate to my point?

It relates to what I saw as you disparaging the rich NY guy whose name you don't know and in some way the residents of that area who continued to fight to get something done. I think you used a very poor example in warning about the continued battle over anchoring. If I was fighting anchoring restrictions in Jacksonville, I would not use Sunset Lake as a reference point because if Jacksonville's issue was anything like Sunset Lake then they'd probably get a law restricting.

I see Jacksonville more like Fort Lauderdale where a few people, some of whom don't even have waterfront homes, continue to every few years campaign for restrictions, regardless of how many times they fail.

Your point that it will resurface is absolutely valid. I just didn't feel like the situation you compared to was comparable.